Rerolling Diadem

[SalivaMonster]

I believe it is something never discussed here.

It is known that rerolling rare items using 6pskull recipe reduce the qlvl until it level off. How does it affect diadem? How would the magic bonus of diadem play a part in the calculation? Since I have imbue a diadem with a level 9 character, end up with a +2skill rare. Is it save to assume that rare diadem can have any qlvl mods after repeated reroll?

Thanks in advance.

[Thrugg]

I believe it is something never discussed here.

You'd be surprised what we've discussed here.

It is known that rerolling rare items using 6pskull recipe reduce the qlvl until it level off.

It reduces the ilvl (item level) but it doesn't affect the qlvl (quality level). Nothing ever changes an item's qlvl, for example, Diadems are always qlvl 85.
This is important in this situation.

How does it affect diadem? How would the magic bonus of diadem play a part in the calculation?

In general, if an item's qlvl is higher than its ilvl, then the game uses its qlvl instead of its ilvl to determine its mods. So, once your Diadem drops below ilvl 85 (which it will immediately using the 6 skull recipe), then the qlvl will kick in. So any Diadem is always as good as an ilvl 85 one.

The magic bonus just makes working out the alvl simple. If an item has magic bonus, then its alvl (affix level) is simply max(ilvl, qlvl) + maglvl.

For Diadems, maglvl is 18. And since the first term is always at least 85, the total is always at least 103 (it gets capped to 99) which is enough to spawn any mod.

Since I have imbue a diadem with a level 9 character, end up with a +2skill rare. Is it save to assume that rare diadem can have any qlvl mods after repeated reroll?

Yup. Your imbued Diadem is ilvl 13 (clvl+4) but still has alvl 99. Reroll it all you like, it will have a teeny tiny ilvl, but it wil still have alvl 99.

[cheesypotatoes]

So wait all items of the same class have the same qlvl and ilvl like do all diadems have the same ilvl and qlvl as all other diadems? And if so then can tiars be rerolled multiple times to get something like 2skill 20fcr 2 soc with +str and mana and life or can only diadems.

[Ax2Grind]

So wait all items of the same class have the same qlvl and ilvl like do all diadems have the same ilvl and qlvl as all other diadems? And if so then can tiars be rerolled multiple times to get something like 2skill 20fcr 2 soc with +str and mana and life or can only diadems.

Tiaras have a quality level of 70 and a magic level of 13, so only if a level 77 or higher monster dropped a tiara, would it receive +2 to [class] skills. That affix is level 90, and rerolling a tiara even a rare Baal tiara with a CLvl99 would drop it to ILvl78 instantly, then the Q+MLvl would kick in making it 83.

Imbuing tiaras might be another story (I don't have that formula off-hand), but you only get one shot at that.

[jiansonz]

Imbuing tiaras might be another story (I don't have that formula off-hand), but you only get one shot at that.

If you want a shot at the +2 class skills affixes, you would have to imbue with a lvl 73+ character.

If you are not that picky, any character can imbue a Tiara and get one with any affix except the +2 class skill ones (since the affix level will be 83).

[Wambat]

Is there any advantage to reducing the ilvl in this way?

[Thrugg]

There are certainly situations where deliberately reducing the ilvl can be a good thing.

Affixes use the max of ilvl and qlvl, but some other things use only ilvl - staffmods and automods for example - so you can sneakily get high level affixes on the same item as a low level staffmod this way. It is the only way to get Claw Mastery on a Sin claw for example, or to get +2 Necro skills and +RS/SM staffmods on a wand or head.

There can also be situations where you can improve your chance of getting a particular mod by getting the exact ilvl you need for it. However, this takes a fair degree of manipulation (ie you probably need a char of an exact clvl) and it is awfully expensive to reroll rares in large quantities.

But for Diadems, no, there is never any difference between Diadems no matter what the ilvl. They don't spawn staffmods and they always have exactly the same odds of each affix at all levels.

[purdypog]

I just wanted to say, darn Thrugg you are one smart person re: Diablo2. My contrats I am very impressed.


You'd be surprised what we've discussed here.



It reduces the ilvl (item level) but it doesn't affect the qlvl (quality level). Nothing ever changes an item's qlvl, for example, Diadems are always qlvl 85.
This is important in this situation.



In general, if an item's qlvl is higher than its ilvl, then the game uses its qlvl instead of its ilvl to determine its mods. So, once your Diadem drops below ilvl 85 (which it will immediately using the 6 skull recipe), then the qlvl will kick in. So any Diadem is always as good as an ilvl 85 one.

The magic bonus just makes working out the alvl simple. If an item has magic bonus, then its alvl (affix level) is simply max(ilvl, qlvl) + maglvl.

For Diadems, maglvl is 18. And since the first term is always at least 85, the total is always at least 103 (it gets capped to 99) which is enough to spawn any mod.



Yup. Your imbued Diadem is ilvl 13 (clvl+4) but still has alvl 99. Reroll it all you like, it will have a teeny tiny ilvl, but it wil still have alvl 99.

[jokermwx]

Affixes use the max of ilvl and qlvl, but some other things use only ilvl - staffmods and automods for example - so you can sneakily get high level affixes on the same item as a low level staffmod this way. It is the only way to get Claw Mastery on a Sin claw for example, or to get +2 Necro skills and +RS/SM staffmods on a wand or head.
.

Can you explain this further, and is this using the 6pskull recipe?

[Fearoth]

Damn and i was wasting sojs rerolling diadems.. sigh

[Thrugg]

jokermwx, yes, the 6 pskull recipe specifically.

When you use that recipe, the final level of the rerolled item is equal to the level of the input item x 0.4, plus your character level x 0.4, rounding both down if they are fractional. For example, if you are level 77 and use the 6 skull recipe on an item from the Pit (level 85), the rerolled item will be level
[77 x 0.4] + [85 x 0.4] = 30 + 34 = 64.
Note that the item level dropped; from 85 to 64. Do it again and it will drop to 55, and so on.

Now, suppose you are rolling rare Runic Talons this way. They are qlvl 81, and that never changes. As mentioned above, if qlvl > ilvl then the game uses qlvl to generate the magic affixes the item gets when it is rerolled. So Runic Talons always roll affixes as though they are at least ilvl 81. ilvl 81 Runic Talons have alvl 63 (formula for high level items is usually alvl = 2*ilvl - 99), which is more than enough to spawn +2 Assn skills. So Runic Talons are always able to spawn +2 Assy skills no matter what their ilvl is.

Staffmods, the +to a particular skill you get on some items like staves and wands (and some claws) are only based on item level though. And the way those are chosen means that if the item is high level, then the lowest level skills (like the ones you can learn right at the start) cannot spawn. This is a pity, because there are some pretty popular skills at those levels. And if you use a low level claw you can't get the high level affixes like +2 skills.

But, using the 6 skull recipe to drop the item level on the right item type, you can get (for example) a low ilvl claw - which can therefore get low level staffmods on it - which can still get high level affixes because it has a high qlvl. These can't drop naturally because high qlvl items will only start dropping in high level areas, which measn high ilvl. The recipe lets you change one without changing the other, which is the trick.

Unfortunately, it still isn't easy. In D2 it is never cheap to get even two random mods on the one item at the same time. Even at the perfect level only 1/6 claws will have a +Claw Mastery staffmod, and the odds of +2 skills on a claw is never better than about 1/160 - so for both at the same time it's an average of 1000 rerolls. But at least it is possible.

The same idea works for other items that can spawn good mods at high ilvls but a staffmod you want only at low levels, like maybe a sceptre with +Might, a wand with +RS/SM, an orb with Warmth, druid helm with Lycanthropy...

The trick is to use a base item with a high qlvl, ie the top end elite ones. Typically +2 skills on the relevant item class is alvl 50 which means it needs to be qlvl 75+ for this to work. You can find qlvls at www.d2data.net under Base Item.

You also probably want to reroll with a low level char. It is kind of unusual for this to be true, normally it either doesn't matter, or higher is better. But here we deliberately want to drop the ilvl so we want to use as low a clvl as possible because that is used in the equation.

For example, if we kept going with my example above, starting with a level 77 char and a level 85 item, the ilvl would drop 85 - 64 - 55 - 52 - 50 - 50 and eventually stabilise at 50. You can't get lower rerolling with a level 77 char.
But, reroll with a level 1 char and it will drop 85 - 34 - 13 - 5 - 2 - 1 - 1 and drop all the way to 1 (actually 0, but there is a lower cap at 1). This is perfect for getting the level 1 skills as staffmods.

Just for completeness, the difference with the SoJ rare reroll recipe is that the SoJ recipe uses 0.75 instead of 0.4 in the equation at the top. That generally tends to raise the ilvl higher each time. Which can be useful, but not for this particular project.

[jokermwx]

Wow.......Ty TY TY TY TY.......Thrugg you are the man. Thanks for breaking that down, and the good link. My 99 Zon finds alot of nice rares, and high whites. Now I just have to cow and get skulls.