Practical PvP throw baba

[laketrout]

Hi I was looking for the basic skill/stat spread for a PvP throw barbarian. By "practical" I mean a barbarian that won't be any easier to kill than say a WW barb that doesn't use a shield. Also, he must be able to deal a decent amount of damage and hit someone with average defense (AR)--for example, able to kill, but again, not amazing (like 1-2 hit kill). I have read the barbarian forum for anything regaurding this and found a throw guide, but I didnt find it to be quite enough. seems a little old, and its not quite specific enough. thought my best chance would be to come here and ask! thanks in advance for all responses!

What would be the ideal skill point spread?

My estimate: 20 bo
20 double throw
20 throw mastery
20 double swing (adds 8% dmg to double throw per level)
1 in frenzy (not neccessary i suppose, but it would be nice to be able to charge up frenzy and run around like a madman tossing javs/axes as fast as possible.)
1 in all the prereqs
rest of my skillpoints in nat. resist to help against elemental damage for resist stacking (as i am assuming my equip might be a little low on resists)





What would be the ideal stat point spread?
str: enough for highest str item
dex: base? use angelic set for AR? oh wait, i will probably need some dex to use some throwing weapons...so enough for required dex on weapon.
vit: the rest
enr: base

What would be the ideal set of items (disregard pricing, for the most part)?

this is where i am lost, especially in the weapons area. my best guess for the rest is:

armor: enigma

shield on weapon switch: something with the highest block % possible so i can switch to it and block when needed, without having to sink extra dex to do so. again, open to suggestions.

helm: arreats/crown of ages (but im not sure the 174 str req would make it not worth use or not...looking for suggestions here)

gloves: bloodfist? (30% fhr is main reason) or maybe 20% ias gloves with knockback (would kb help, be neutral, or not help at all)

rings/ammy: angelic when i need the AR, highlords / bul-kathos when i dont? wisp protector or whatever for when i need absorb

belt: verdungos seems like a pretty clear choice here. dmg reduced, +vit, +10% fhr, decent defense.

boots: goreriders? +r/w open wounds, crushing blow, deadly strike (goes along with highlords)

weapons: Looking for suggestions here. Browsing arreat summit i see:

gimmershread flying axes: good amount of elemental damage, 46-204 ideal throw damage 108 req dex

lacerator winged axe: 21-186 ideal throw damage, 33% chance of open wounds (goes along with goreriders) 33% chance to cast amp dmg (nice mod!) 122 req dex

javelins:

demon's arch: 124-192 ideal throw damage, good amount of fire/light dmg to add. +30% ias and life leech (useless, right?) 95 req dex

gargoyles bite: 36-254 ideal throw damage. +293 psn dmg / 10 seconds. +9-15% life leech (life leech is useless in pvp now, right?) req dex 145 (ouch...)

[TippSoulja]

IMHO:
First off, yes, life leech is pretty much useless in pvp, however life tap is not.

Second, there are two main ways to make a good pvp throw barb. Good being a relative term since making a throw barb is pretty much one of the most difficult duelers to use, but also one of the most fun.

1. Max double throw for AR bonus and go for the ability to hit more often

2. 1pt in double throw and go for more ias/damage, also giving more skills points for other things.

Which route you take can depend on things like equipment available, your main enemy(caster/melee), and where you need skill pts.

My throw barb went the route of max double throw, which may or may not have been a mistake. What I found is that with max DT, angelics(2xring, ammy), and lacerator/gimmer, I still had trouble hitting pallys and barbs with a decent shout lvl.

Enigma is not the solution to the faults of a throw barb. Assuming you could get any equipment you want, here is the route I would take:

Skills:
Max Throw mastery
Max Double Swing
Max Bo
1pt Double Throw
10-20pts Leap
1-10 Natural Resist
1pt Increased Stamina
1pt Increased Speed
1-10pts shout (more if you are going for melee)
1pt frenzy(this is more for pvm, it is very difficult to execute in pvp but fun)
1pt prereqs

Stats:
This is basic setup...
Str: Enough for equipment
Dex: Enough for equipment (can be high due to lacerator req)
Vit: Rest, duh
Nrg: Base

What about max block? If you are using a shield on switch you haven't made a thrower barb, you have some sort of hybrid which I would have only a vague idea of how to build.

Equipment:
Arreats(40/15 or um)
Highlords
2xlacerator(lacerator/Cruel ghost glaive)
high raven frost
dwarf/wisp/soj
Goreriders
Lavagout/Drac's
Nos coil/Dungo's/arach
160/60ias in high def armour of whale(enhanced damage/increased attack speed)

Charms:
3/20/20s of course but also psn charms can be very devastating unless you think thats bm.


There is really only a few of these items that are godly, the main one being 160/60 ed/ias armour. However, if you can get this it will make you throw so fast with such damage that anything in the way of your weps will die quickly.

You will still having trouble hitting pallys and barbs but this build is geared more for caster anyways. Using your high leap knockback radius and fast r/w you will beable to put them in hit recovery animation and then run towards them hurling axes.

Be aggresive with most casters and more defensive for melee. This is kinda the bowazon way of thinking and it can be very effective.

Some might say, "if you don't have the equipment I suggest, don't bother making this char". Sometimes I might agree with this statement in certain cases,(Singer barbs and the like) but in this case I whole heartedly argue that you should go ahead and make a throw barb no matter what equipment you might have. You can always plan on getting that equipment and if you never do then o well at least you made the effort.

Now lets assume you never get that 160/60 (I still haven't yet) then there are a few armours I would suggest.
CoH in high def armour
Lionheart in low str req armour
Duress in high def armour (Open wounds is sweet, lets be honest)
Gloom in high def armour (for high resist and def)
Enigma in high def armour (this is a last resort because you won't be able to cast tele fast enough to keep up with anyother tele char unless you sacrifice ias for fcr)
Shaftstop with pruby(hard not to mention)
Trang armour (for f r/w)
Griswold's armour filled with pdiamonds (this is a stretch)

Keys to success:
Spam leap by doing short leaps repeatedly until they are dissoriented and then attack.

Don't stand in one place and spam double throw, they will circle you and you will miss all day.

The listed damage on your double throw isn't correct even after pvp penalty. Test your damage on friends and ask them how much life they are losing per hit. Do this with different weapons to see if there is an increase and be sure to take into account physical damage reduced gear they may be wearing.

Make sure you have 48 fhr and 65 ias on gear, these are the two most important breakpoints for a thrower. Note: without high fhr on armour, you will have to make up for it in charms, this means 4x12fhr gc's.

Not enough AR you say, two words... demon limb. Charges of lvl 23 enchant will not only boost your AR huge but add some fire damage. Use on switch and cast enchant on yourself. To repair use ort rune and chip gem with wep in cube... volia, fully repaired and recharged.

Have fun

[mcm]

Throw barbs are ineffective for the following reasons:

- The best throwing uniques in terms of properties are axes and knives, but the range on throwing knives/axes sucks, it's not even the full screen. This means you have to use javelins, which are not runewordable and have no really good unique examples. The only really acceptable throwing jav is an extremely rare, well, rare javelin.
- Fast double throw will burn through your quantity in no time flat. The best javelins, while not being amazingly powerful, are ethereal w/ repairs. You CANNOT repair these you must WAIT for them to repair, this would frustrate the hell out of me if my weapon only lasts one or even 1/2 a duel and then I must wait 10 minutes for it to fully replenish.
- Hitting moving targets with a relatively low range throwing item is difficult and given bnets wonderful lag/desync characteristics, unreliable. You're just not going to be able to hit a teleporting character at all well.

Throwing is at best a backup skill for a more capable melee skill like WW. You would have much more success if you use throwing javs/spears to force melee or short-range caster (hammerdins, wind druids, templars) opponents to come towards you, at which point the use of WW (for example) would take over as an offensive skill.

[laketrout]

thank you tipp soulja for all your suggestions. i do plan on getting all the best gear i can for this barb and i believe i already have some 160/60 armor. i was thinkin about it and i will probably go for crown of ages helm, and bloodfist gloves for the fhr. along the line of skillpoints i will be maxing double throw so that i can be using highlords whenever possible.

mcm, go away. i wasnt looking for someone to try to convince me not to go for this build, and you arent going to get anywhere doing it. go build yourself a cookie cutter character :/

[mcm]

Funny thing is.. I've already made this build, and it's disappointing and I'm talking from experience. Sorry to burst your bubble.

[Perfect_11.]

like mcm said the best way to make a throwing barb is to include an attack such as ww. throwing on its own cannot keep up with tele.

[DrugOfChoice]

i actually made this one like last week and wasnt too disappointed with the results...however...after remaking him as a hybrid, hes a lot more effective...so thast what i recommend if you wanna make a throw barb. a pure one is cool too just a tad bit more difficult to deal with certain builds...like zealots for one -_- damn zealots rofl oh yea and charge...that rapes you...

[TippSoulja]

Throw barbs are ineffective for the following reasons:

- The best throwing uniques in terms of properties are axes and knives, but the range on throwing knives/axes sucks, it's not even the full screen. This means you have to use javelins, which are not runewordable and have no really good unique examples. The only really acceptable throwing jav is an extremely rare, well, rare javelin.
- Fast double throw will burn through your quantity in no time flat. The best javelins, while not being amazingly powerful, are ethereal w/ repairs. You CANNOT repair these you must WAIT for them to repair, this would frustrate the hell out of me if my weapon only lasts one or even 1/2 a duel and then I must wait 10 minutes for it to fully replenish.
- Hitting moving targets with a relatively low range throwing item is difficult and given bnets wonderful lag/desync characteristics, unreliable. You're just not going to be able to hit a teleporting character at all well.

Throwing is at best a backup skill for a more capable melee skill like WW. You would have much more success if you use throwing javs/spears to force melee or short-range caster (hammerdins, wind druids, templars) opponents to come towards you, at which point the use of WW (for example) would take over as an offensive skill.

I agree, however... how would you go about a hybrid?

Assuming you put only 1pt in Double Throw, you would now beable to max or split pts between skills.

One possibility might be...
Skills:
Max WW
Max Double Swing
Max BO
10pts Weapon Mastery for use with WW
10pts Throw Mastery
1pt Double Throw
1pt Iron Skin
1pt Natural Resist
8pts in prereqs
(further pts can go into more masteries or increasing leap radius)

If you use 2xLacertor for your throw weps and some really good WW weps then you can try to land some lacerator hits to get amp damage, switch and then go in for WW attack. This make make up for lower weapon mastery skill, but it will still require some good WW weps.

Enigma would almost be a must for this build, if you want to kill casters.

I would be interested to see how you built your hybrid, because I agree that it is probably a more effective build than a pure thrower.

[rmvetski]

I agree, however... how would you go about a hybrid?

Assuming you put only 1pt in Double Throw, you would now beable to max or split pts between skills.

One possibility might be...
Skills:
Max WW
Max Double Swing
Max BO
10pts Weapon Mastery for use with WW
10pts Throw Mastery
1pt Double Throw
1pt Iron Skin
1pt Natural Resist
8pts in prereqs
(further pts can go into more masteries or increasing leap radius)

If you use 2xLacertor for your throw weps and some really good WW weps then you can try to land some lacerator hits to get amp damage, switch and then go in for WW attack. This make make up for lower weapon mastery skill, but it will still require some good WW weps.

Enigma would almost be a must for this build, if you want to kill casters.

I would be interested to see how you built your hybrid, because I agree that it is probably a more effective build than a pure thrower.

did you know that throw mastery gives dmg?

[DrugOfChoice]

I agree, however... how would you go about a hybrid?

Assuming you put only 1pt in Double Throw, you would now beable to max or split pts between skills.

One possibility might be...
Skills:
Max WW
Max Double Swing
Max BO
10pts Weapon Mastery for use with WW
10pts Throw Mastery
1pt Double Throw
1pt Iron Skin
1pt Natural Resist
8pts in prereqs
(further pts can go into more masteries or increasing leap radius)

If you use 2xLacertor for your throw weps and some really good WW weps then you can try to land some lacerator hits to get amp damage, switch and then go in for WW attack. This make make up for lower weapon mastery skill, but it will still require some good WW weps.

Enigma would almost be a must for this build, if you want to kill casters.

I would be interested to see how you built your hybrid, because I agree that it is probably a more effective build than a pure thrower.

uh well i went something like this...my char is stripped by now so...ill just put what i can recall.

20 throw mastery
15 melee mastery
15 ww
10 dswing
5 natural resists
20 Bo
1 Bc
1 dthrow
1 beserk
1 increased speed

and gear was something like
EbotdZ + Stormshield--->Eth lacerator + Eth demon arc
enigma mage
soul shanks
2x raven frost
highlords
20ias/kb gloves
verdungos
arreats 40/15 ias

and then i regeared him one day as a BvC and i ended up with Botd + Beast/Doom/Silence and used Gore riders...i also found that getting 40 fcr via arachs + 2 x 10fcr rings worked nicely...this was Ok except for the lack of AR...so yea...thats how i did it

[TippSoulja]

did you know that throw mastery gives dmg?

Thank you Mr. Obvious!

[PopMusic]

nice guide :thumbsup: I kinda wanted a 49 baba and whole b.net is full already with oathys so I want to make a throw baba 49 now, wich skills do I max? I have eq already, thx

[vknez]

nice guide :thumbsup: I kinda wanted a 49 baba and whole b.net is full already with oathys so I want to make a throw baba 49 now, wich skills do I max? I have eq already, thx

hehe. grave digging 4 years old topic. also its not a guide...

[deathwinger]

also an incredibly stupid old topic. The people who wrote it evidently didn't know about the many throw barb glitches:

A) double throw, as a projectile skill, adds no %AR, and thus points in it beyond the first are utterly wasted
B) throw mastery glitches your displayed damage, by multiplying your ACTUAL damage by the % seen, so your real damage is much lower than the display
C) you must strength glitch your throwing weapons to be invisible, for any good PvP

The properly built bvc/thrower hybrid looks like this:


Switch 1: 2x Ethereal Lacerators (not lacerator + other weapon)
Switch 2: Grief/Beast Berserker Axes
Helm: Arreats or CoA with +15% ias in jewel
Armor: Enigma
Gloves: Trang Oul's
Belt: Arachs
Boots: Gores or Tri-resist Rares
Amulet: Highlords
Rings: Ravenfrosts
Charms: Standard BvC fare; combinations of resists, life, ar.

Skills:
(level 90)
20 Double Swing
20 Throw Mastery
20 Axe Mastery
20 Battle Orders
1 Battle Cry
1 Battle Command
1 Frenzy
1 Berserk
1 WW
1 Increased Speed
1 Natural Resistance
4 Leap (pump remaining points)

[vknez]

you cant strength glitch eth lacerators (to be invisible) in this set up cause they require only 86 str. also i dont see any advantage it this feature in pvp

double throw adds ar to skill

[deathwinger]

'strength glitch' is a generic term. In this case, you use charms to glitch the dexterity, since lacerators will be your highest required item. With +40 from charms, simply make sure you have them str glitched with both ravens & angelics. Double Throw, being a projectile skill, ignores the %AR field in the d2 engine due to a bug and therefore adds no %AR. And since the only bonus the skill gives is %AR, it is hence worthless, beyond the animation bonus.

[vknez]

never heard for that bug before...
will test this later

[PopMusic]

Oh wel, I used all the time that bug and didn´t know it :D