Hey, best Asn build, Trap/Kick/WW

[semisonic9]

I have the other 2, is a WW-sin worth it? How expensive vs. strong are they? AWhat class are they bad against (my kicker gets pned by bow-sins, WTF?)

Any other thoughts would be good. Thanks!

[Speederländer]

I said I was taking vacation from this game but I'll reply on this one.

First, kickers should NEVER lose to bowazons unless the zons are very good indeed, and even then you should win most of the time. My guess is you have a flaw either in strategy or equipment or both. Are you using enigma to move around? If you are using dragon flight, you will have it interupted/misfire 90% of the time by either guided arrow or the zon leaving the effective radius for the skill.

That said, as to a comparison:
Kickers should be either pure melee oriented or pure anti-caster. They don't do well in-between. Their best lot is in anti-caster mode, with enigma, claw-claw, etc. Pure melee kickers can do ok, but you'll never beat the top melee pallys, barbs, ww-sins, etc. Pure anti-caster kickers can do very well vs. all caster types.

WW-sins also have a choice to make, bramble or enigma. If you want a shot vs. good casters, you have to go enigma. If you are pure melee and killing the ocassional slow caster is good enough, then go bramble. Bramble gives you a massive poison boost, the listed poison skill percentage actually acting TWICE. However, damage is no substitute for mobility in a lot of hard duels. Fast necros, sorcs, etc. are pretty much impossible without enigma. People may claim that their bramble ww-sin "owns" casters but they're delusional or just plain lack any good dueling experience.

Now, ww-sins generally have a larger group of potential victims than a kicker does. WW-sins with enigma can still kill several melee types, but again, the TOP melee barbs and pallys won't fall to a ghost variant ww-sin (and rarely to a bramble ww-sin for that matter). An enigma ww-sin with good equipment can regularly beat very good casters and medium build/skill melee IF you play with skill. An enigma kicker with good equipment can regularly beat very good casters, and a few melee types with less-than-stellar gear.
SO:
enigma ww-sin = more possible decent-shot match-ups than enigma kicker.

All that said, I prefer my anti-caster kicker. I feel that kickers are just ever-so-slightly better at caster killing than ww-sins if they are played right. Not a lot better, but just a bit. I would rather be the BEST possible specialist than a generalist (but that's just me). However, for 99% of the people who duel, they'll never see a difference. Both variants can do very well if the driver is good.

[semisonic9]

Yeah, I have a well-built kicker, all she needs is dancers, currently wearing upp'd gores, enigma, vendugos (TGods in stash), all the usual suspects. SHould be trading Harbringer of Skulls for the dancers soon.

With maxed resists, 55% claw block (only lvl 70) and strong minion/MB, I do fine against everything escept pallys and barbs melee, but bow zons do pwn me repeatedly. It's the "MS from 2 screens away in every direction" strategy that kills me...can't tele in, can't take te damage, can't put out any damage. *snuffed* I mean I've tried maxing my % redux, more fcr, more fhr, etc., they're really troubling me.

Yeah, she was a mage-slayer, and at that she was killer. But u really dont see a lot of sorcs dueling, and with res/absorb their not gonna give my WW too much trouble either. All the melee I could ignore as a trapper are ******** me off, I can only duel 2-4 people out of 8 in a duel game with my kicker..... :mad:

So WW straight up, or should I put some points into DFlight?

20 c. mastery
20 venom
10 duel block
15 fade (I have lots of +skills)

prereqs.....what else?

[Speederländer]

Yeah, she was a mage-slayer, and at that she was killer. But u really dont see a lot of sorcs dueling, and with res/absorb their not gonna give my WW too much trouble either.

Actually, you have a very narrow view of anti-caster. It includes:
1. sorcs
2. necros of all types
3. wind druids
4. Hammer and FoH pallies
5. Trappers
6. Zons of ALL types (even if they aren't casters)

That's like 70% of bnet right there.

Yeah, I have a well-built kicker, all she needs is dancers, currently wearing upp'd gores, enigma, vendugos (TGods in stash), all the usual suspects. SHould be trading Harbringer of Skulls for the dancers soon.
Something's already broke. You should have 65 fast cast at all times, unless you dump gear for absorb. I almost NEVER bother to absorb except vs. trappers. My kicker has 75% res in hell along with about 30 res stacked over that and 3900 life.

With maxed resists, 55% claw block (only lvl 70) and strong minion/MB, I do fine against everything escept pallys and barbs melee, but bow zons do pwn me repeatedly.
Make sure that WB is 60% or higher at the end. Master can be a one point investment if you use 10 shadow skill charms. Then pump everything into mindblast. This goes for kickers or ghost ww-sins.


It's the "MS from 2 screens away in every direction" strategy that kills me...can't tele in, can't take te damage, can't put out any damage. *snuffed* I mean I've tried maxing my % redux, more fcr, more fhr, etc., they're really troubling me.
You should ALWAYS have the 86 FHR breakpoint. You should ALWAYS have 50% physical damage reduction. You should always have 65% fast cast. This is for all duels all the time, except a few special cases like trappers.
You have to circle in on the zon with tele and then DF on top of her when she's within half a screen. Her arrows should lag behind you unless she's using a random pattern to trip you up. Make sure your master is always out. Teleing on top of her with the master out gets you minion stack for a moment, which can help more for a kicker (standing still and kicking) than a ww-sin.

So WW straight up, or should I put some points into DFlight?
Only 1 pt in flight.

All the melee I could ignore as a trapper are ******** me off, I can only duel 2-4 people out of 8 in a duel game with my kicker..... :mad:
Who cares about melee? If you want to kill all melee use a trapper (until they absorb you). If you want to kill most pubbie melee, get a decent bramble ww-sin. If you want to kill mediocre melee (which is still most pubbie melee...) and good casters, get an enigma ww-sin. If you want to kill good casters (and be original) get an enigma kicker with the correct set-up (i.e. not exactly what you have listed above). Good assassins specialize. If you want a shot at killing everyone in the game, play a barb or a hammer pally. Assassins are about finesse and skill (except maybe trappers... :cool: ).



In my opinion, anti-casters require the most skill in the game to play well, whether ww-sin anti-caster or kicker anti-caster. Nothing else comes close to demanding comparable operator skill and a good connection, except perhaps tele-barb anti-casters. You have to be FAST, ACCURATE, and you have to ANTICIPATE, at least against the very good casters.

[semisonic9]

Hmmm, good post SL.

To clarify, I merely meant I had absorb items in the stash when I need them. Yes, I am waiting on the +Dex from the dancers and some other final gear before I pump a few more in WB, and I also am currently playing with only an anni for 55% block, so that will be taken care of too.

I enjoy my trapper and kicker both, but kinda for different reasons and was primarily wondering about taking on a WW in a day or so.