View Full Version : Nat's Set WW Build
:howdy: Saw another thread going off topic, decided to make a new one.
Anyway, I think most of us have toyed with the idea a bit, maybe we can figure out what the best combination of extra gear is as a forum. My experience with Nat's set has mostly been with a Phoenix Striker, and I know that WW will be a bit different, so I thought I'd toss out a few ideas and let you guys take over the discussion. This is going to be for PvM since PvP is just a mess. Anyone who can make a Nat's set WW sin work PvP is playing below their level. :p Since this is a "fun" build more than anything else, I'm not going to spare the abbreviations. Anyone new to sins reading this... I pity you. Read the abbreviations in the FAQ (linked in the FAQ Update sticky) before dreaming of tackling this.
Basic Build
20 Claw Mastery
20 Venom
1 or 20 Death Sentry
5 weapon block
Rest into Fade/SM
1 All 1-pt wonders (DF, CoS, MB, BF)
Equipment
Nat's set (duh)
Sockets - ?
Gloves - ?
Belt - ?
Jewelry - ?
Charms - ?
Weapon Socket
Hmm, not sure here. Perhaps a damage jewel or high rune (DS, CB, etc)? Maybe a Nef for knockback? Just leave it unsocketed because it's cheaper that way?
Body Sockets
I was thinking this would be the place to get resists. There are 4 sockets possible on the armor/helm. Adding one of each of the elemental runes (ort, ral, tal, thul) would give a nice +30 all resists. Um runes would be better, giving the possibility for +60 all resists. Other socketing options are FHR (shael), ED, or facets. I'm thinking "no" on facets, but that's just me.
Gloves
This is the *only* place to get CB on this build, and it needs it, badly. Unfortunately there are some other nifty choices here too. LoH, Steelrends, Crafted Blood, Bloodfists, Trangs seem to be the natural choices.
Belt
Crafted Blood would give OW, which helps a ton in some places. There are also plenty of other sweet mods on rare belts. The other options are SoE/Verd's, TGod's, or something out of the norm.
Amulet
The angelic combo is nice for AR, but I'm going to ignore it just because the AR is not needed in PvM. Mara's or Highlord's seem like the obvious chocies. Highlord's is far better for the double damage aspect, IMO. If those are out of budget for anyone, then any rare ammy with resists can work. To be perfectly honest, most of the unique amulets have potential to be good.
Rings
Ravenfrost! CBF is kinda important... ok, it's essential. For the second ring, I'm rather partial to Dwarf Star for the MDR and absorb. BK/Wisp also look like options.
Charms
Anni, resists, damage. Anything else I'm missing here? Anyone know if Reduced Vendor Prices applies to repair costs? Gheeds would be nice if it does.
Just a few of my random thoughts. Next!
skygoneblue
31-01-2005, 00:55
Haha, I love it Ilkori! I was just leveling up my Nat's WW Sin! :)
Here is what I'm going with (and I'm open to suggestions).
20 Claw Mastery
20 Venom
Max Death Sentry?
Max Weapon Block?
Max Shadow Master?
Max Dragon Claw?
Gear:
Nat's Helm w/ Shael
Highlord's Wrath
Nat's Claw w/ Um
Nat's Armor w/ Ral, Thul, Ort (no Tal because the armor already has 75 PLR)
Chaos Suwayyah
Trang's
Ravenfrost
Verdungo's
BulKathos' Ring
Nat's Boots
I second not using Angelics simply because Nat's claw has ITD on it. I was thinking of getting an Ohm for Nat's claw to get some Crushing Blow in there, but I dunno if it would be worth the cost. I'm only 74 right now, so after a few more Baal/Chaos runs, I'll let you know how it goes! :)
Crushing Blow is Ber, not Ohm. :p Ohm would still be a good choice, though. :)
One thing I was going to mention, but forgot - how much does the WW sin actualy need FHR? I mean, the only time you are vulnerable is between whirls. Maybe leveling also... but I don't know how much is needed there.
Personally I'd max the Death Sentry - I mean, there's not many other places to put the points.
skygoneblue
31-01-2005, 01:57
Ahh, then wtf does Ohm do? Lo is Deadly Strike, isn't it? Grrr...
Well I just hit 79, I have 27 unspent skill points, and I have no idea what I'm going to do with them! :lol: I thought Death Sentry would be the best idea, and I still may do that. However, I sunk all those points into Claw Mastery; it feels kinda stupid not maxing another Claw skill, you know? Oh well...
20 Claw Mastery
20 Venom
20 Death Sentry
19 Weapon Block
Rest into Shadow Master
How's that? :lol:
FrozenSolid
31-01-2005, 01:59
Great thread Ilkori :D
Was thinking of making a ww natsin myself so perhaps I could get some tips from this. I have a few questions.
What +skills should I look for in the chaos claw? I was thinking something like DS/BF/MB.
And would I need any more ias to reach fastest attack rate with chaos suwayyah and nats claw?
Regarding socketing the armor, I dont know if reists runes are necessary. With the gear you would get 50 from full set, ~15 from helm, 30 from anya quest, ~69 from Fade = 164 + 25 psn res from armor and ~20 cold/light res from the boots.
Thats max reist in hell (except for fire but charms/gloves/belt can fix that).
That leaves 4 free sockets for your own taste. My question would be what to socket in them? I have a bunch of ruby jewels, would that be a good choice? Or just 4 prubies for 152 life?
Ahh, then wtf does Ohm do? Lo is Deadly Strike, isn't it? Grrr...
Ohm adds 50% ed ;)
Ohm is 50% ED in weapons :P.
I'm still going for the Nat's PvP aspect, so I'll keep that to myself or start another thread. PvM is an entirely different ballgame. I'd go with;
Nat's Helm (X)
HLords
Chaos Suwayyah
Nat's Armour (XXX)
Nat's Claw (Um)
Trangs Gloves
RF
Verds
BK
Gores
Where there are X's you can have a variety of Shaels or Ums depending on what your charms are and if you want to bother stacking res above 75 all with Fade on, what FHR you can live with, etc.
For the love of god whatever you do make Chaos in a plain Suwayyah with NO other +skills. A plain one costs enough to repair as it is, +1 Mind Blast isn't worth 500000k a durability.
Againt this is PvM, you can go through this game with sub-optimal gear and venom and you'll be fine.
FrozenSolid
31-01-2005, 02:16
Are the repair costs really that high? I mean I knew they were high but I figured if I pick up a wand or staff along the way I could always sell them for 35k gold (not that I dont do it anyway :rolleyes: ).
Could someone post a pic with repair cost for a chaos/chaos with +skills?
I could always use Ort runes seeing as how I never use them for anything else and theyre not very wanted in trades either...
I'm not the expert here, just tossing out some ideas for what I'd do. I have't touched this game in a few months, I just have too many ideas running through my head still. :p
For speed, Nat's Claw and any Chaos would easily meet the final BP for WW. No worries there.
On the resists, you'd only have 20 resists from Anya through 90% of Hell. Then again, it does take a while to get to 79... hmm.
DF/MB/BF do seem like the best skills in Chaos if you want any +skills. Venom buffing claws on switch wouldn't be a bad idea... but they aren't really needed.
I'd definitely go with Ort runes for the repairs. If you get a claw with superior on it, that's can be an extra bonus to the durability. I only tend to repair things like that when they get to a durability next to nothing. If you keep as little gold as possible, and lots of damage, you don't have to worry about accidently repairing your expensive claw.
Level 20 Fade (casting level) and the set will give 50% DR. There is no real point in using Verdungo's. I'm starting to think that something along the lines of TGod's would really be the best option. That, or a Crafted Blood belt is the best option, The Blood belt can have higher FHR, Life than Verdungo's, in addition to some some other sweet mods like strength, resists, open wounds, etc.
Mana may be an issue for the build - I'm not sure. Perhaps a Crescent Moon is in order in the ammy section.
The inherent problem with a PvM Nat's build is that you need to have pretty much finished PvM to complete Nat's Set. Then PvM being what it is, your Natsin won't have anything to do. Yeh, fine, go lvl up to 95 in Hell Baal runs, that sure is fun :\.
This is the entire reason why I'm trying to make a Natsin for PvP :thumbsup:. Replayability.
FrozenSolid
31-01-2005, 11:19
The inherent problem with a PvM Nat's build is that you need to have pretty much finished PvM to complete Nat's Set. Then PvM being what it is, your Natsin won't have anything to do. Yeh, fine, go lvl up to 95 in Hell Baal runs, that sure is fun :\.
This is the entire reason why I'm trying to make a Natsin for PvP :thumbsup:. Replayability.
Most builds require high lvl to be finished with the gear, pvm or pvp. I dont have a single pvp build because I find it more fun to pvm. But occasionally when I get bored I join pub duel games with my chars and theyre very capable of slaying some bnet lamers ;)
Back to the build. Heres my idea for setup and skills:
Nats set
Chaos suwayyah
Thundergod
Draculs
Raven / Dwarf
Highlords
20 Claw M.
20 Venom
20 Fade
17 SM with +skills (or max)
Rest into DS
With this gear setup I would get max res in hell, max physical dmg reduction, absorb for all 3 elements.
Socket in nats claw? I have a Ber but really dont want to "waste" it on this build. Um maybe for OW. Does the ow stack even if its on my off hand claw?
And how important is crushing blow for a pvm wwsin? If its that important I could switch the draculs for a pair of crafted blood gloves with 10 cb.
Trangs>All (including Dracs)
It adds 56.25% more posion damage to your attack. That's too much to pass up for 25% OW which will trigger enough anyway and a Life Tap that doesn't go off.
On the note of OW stacking, everything stacks additivly EXCEPT each claw only gains it's own 25% OW and not another 25% form the other one. For example if you have only Gores on with then you will have 40% ctc OW with each claw.
And before we start another PvM vs PvP war, I only stated it because I was responding in reference to Ilkori's post. In PvP it doesn't matter that your character needs to be 'lvl95' to use its end game gear. After it hits that lvl there is much for you to do with them (namely dueling, as that is what they were built for.) In PvM the fact that you can't use your gear until ~lvl80 is a huge kick in the pants, cuase after 5-10 levels (if that) you will be completly bored with nothing to do. The fact is you won't be able to complete Nat's set until the game is pretty much over, and that's why I just dropped the line on why I'm making a PvP version.
FrozenSolid
31-01-2005, 16:10
Oops, forgot that ctc doesnt work with ww :rolleyes:
I guess trangs would be a nice choice, but what do u mean with 56.25% more psn dmg? Trangs only have 25% psn dmg. Maybe Ive missed some calculations.
Wouldnt cb gloves b better? They work on psn imunes too which is a nice add.
PvP Nat's build won't be as great as other only slightly more expensive builds but here's what I would use.
Nats set (would probably 3 x facet the armor, shael the helm, um the weapon)
Chaos suwayyah
Arachnid's
Trangs gloves
Rings - depends on matchup
Crafted amulet with 2sin 15fcr (this could be expensive) Mara's if you can't find one.
For pvm:
I would go with as much CB as possible. Can't get that high with Nat's set, but for a ww asn I think CB is just about the best thing to look for.
Nats set (ber weapon, facet armor, um helm)
Chaos suwayyah
Crafted belt - 10%CB fhr, life, str
Crafted gloves - 10%CB, str, dex, LL (2 MA would be cool too)
Raven / Bul Kathos
Highlords
This gives you 40% crushing blow with Nats weapon, 20% with Chaos. Not too high, but crushing blow + ww owns pvm so I would go with this setup for the highest possible CB.
Oops, crafted belt gives OW, not CB. I think it's still what I would go with though.
FrozenSolid
31-01-2005, 20:05
+MA doesnt really help cus ... well, wwsins wont invest anything in the ma tree ^^
And Ber nats claw is nice but also expensive.
That's why I put it in parentheses. Getting a litle extra DFlight damage/AR is nice but not all that helpful.
Why FCR for the PvP build? We don't have enigma :\...
As for the PvM build I'd go with T-Gods, you'll live longer.
As for the Trangs damage thing it's a well known fact by now that Venom/+Poison Damage% works like Enchant/+Fire Damage% (including mastery).
Say venom adds 1000 damage to your attack. When you put Trangs on your Venom now adds 1250 damage to your attack, so you cast Venom and you see 1250 Damage added to your attack. Your Trangs gloves then see the poison damage on your Weapons and says 'Well beter boost that by 25%' and so it does (to 1562.5). Hence you actually get a 56.25% increase on your original damage. This is also why Bramble is sooooooo nice with it's actual 125% dmg increase :surprise:.
Hmm, Trangs almost seems like a waste without adding Facets in the armor to reduce enemy resists (yeah, on the monsters).
I still like Zengief's build with the extra CB - though I'd probably use Rends over crafted blood. Higher level, but hey - that's what we're going for anyway, right?
The problem with an ultra high level is a serious issue. Perhaps it should be played as a standard Dragon Claw (level 1?) build with heavy use of Blade skills before Chaos + full set can be worn. I never intended this to be anything more than a build to have fun with - it just seems like one of those ideas we've all thought about but haven't mentioned at all. :p
FCR for mindblast speed. Trangs is really the nly choice for pvp beacuse of the 20 fcr and the poison bonus is nice as well.
Rends are high level req but also very high str, that's why I like blood crafted better for pvm. LL is also very nice for pvm and you always get that on the gloves.
PVP stat distribution:
20 claw mastery
20 venom
20 mindblast
1 Fade
10 weapon block (26 with gear and 10 skillers)
Dflight from claw
1 WoF and prereq
Rest into Shadow master
PVM stat distribuation:
I guess you only need 1 into mb here, but I'm not really sure what would be the best place to redistribute these points. The rest should probably be the same.
FrozenSolid
01-02-2005, 21:06
Oh so added % psn dmg gets checked twice? Didnt know that. But it still means that you can prebuff Venom with trangs and then switch to a pair of cb gloves right?
Yep.
If you prebuff with Trangs gloves and then wear other gloves you get a 25% increase in damage.
If you prebuff with Trangs gloves and wear them you get a 56.25% increase in damage.
Rends are high level req but also very high str, that's why I like blood crafted better for pvm. LL is also very nice for pvm and you always get that on the gloves.
Ah, I just consider that an excuse for more damage. Nat's is a high level also. I agree that blood/trangs are the best for mid/low levels, but once you get there, I don't see any loss in using it.
FrozenSolid
02-02-2005, 18:50
Is fhr really necessary for pvm wwsin? If so I probably will have to socket my helm with a shael. If not then what would u think is a good idea?
And about nats claw, I dont think Um is necessary either and really dont want to waste a Ber on it. Would a psn facet be good? If not then what would?
Thx // Frozen
Doesn't seem necessary to me as ww is uninterruptable
FrozenSolid
02-02-2005, 20:23
Hm, then I might as well socket the helm with a psn facet too? Or would a ruby jewel be good too?
skygoneblue
02-02-2005, 23:46
Hm, then I might as well socket the helm with a psn facet too? Or would a ruby jewel be good too?
Jah = more life and about the same price as a 5/5 poison.
Also, you could Ber the helm, and with a 12 DR Dungo, you would have 50 DR = No Fade! :) Burst of Speed is always sweeter.
FrozenSolid
03-02-2005, 00:58
Jah = more life and about the same price as a 5/5 poison.
Also, you could Ber the helm, and with a 12 DR Dungo, you would have 50 DR = No Fade! :) Burst of Speed is always sweeter.
Fade = res too :p
Id really like to keep fade so nn for Ber. And Jah = 5/5? Thought they were alot cheaper :rolleyes:
Anyway I got 3 psn facets so the armor is taken care of. Now just need to think about what cheap stuff can be put in the helm :lol:
But what about a ruby jewel? I was thinking, since the build relies on mostly psn dmg, that more phys dmg would be nice. But dont know if the %ed is worth it :scratch:
skygoneblue
03-02-2005, 01:48
Well I literally JUST found a 38 ED jewel if you want it. USE NL.
*SkyGoneBlue
FrozenSolid
03-02-2005, 07:31
Thx for the offer m8 but I play on eu realm, and I got several ruby jewels ;)
Still wondering if the added phys dmg would be worth a socket slot :rolleyes:
skygoneblue
03-02-2005, 23:20
Thx for the offer m8 but I play on eu realm, and I got several ruby jewels ;)
Still wondering if the added phys dmg would be worth a socket slot :rolleyes:
I still think that Ber would be the BEST socket, but I guess that extra physical damage wouldn't hurt.
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