View Full Version : First Post: Another POV
I've been professionally lurking this forum for about 6 months now and have never found a reason to post, but I think some of us have lost their perspective on the game. And I know a first-time poster has no right to come in and be controversial, but I feel it's necessary anyway, so NYAH!
I suppose I should put up some credentials so I don't get flamed too badly. I'd certainly hate to be ignored because of my noobishness. So let me start by stating that I doubt there are many players (count em on two hands, maybe?) who can build better chars than me, HC or older SC. I play every day, read forums, read everybody's advice, run damage calculations, study all that crap that I thank God there are people more obsessed than me provide. I have somewhere near 10 guardians this season (lost 2 chars this season to ignorance), (OK 1 was just a heroic attempt to save Cy) (and i use too many parenthetical expressions). I have MF'd to the point that I figure if you have more stuff than me, you must be botting, or Satan.
Nuff said, my point is that this forum is all about PK'ing now. And it's all so one-sided that it has urged me to point out that PK'ing is a choice YOU made. I'll bet even money that most, if not all of the GOOD pkers, started PKing out of boredom with running countless characters through to guardianship over and over. I'll even give you that it was made a part of the game and it has a place, but why has the whole forum turned into one big PK forum?
Here comes the controversy: my viewpoint has always been that PK'ers in HC are nearly solely responsible for all the chicken users, and now every other thread includes a whine about chicken users. Here's an eye-opener for ya, Mousepad wouldn't have made chicken if not for HC, and HC's most notorius killer has become Pkers. I can't even begin to address my hatred for TPPKers, and don't want to cloud this thread up with em.
Maybe if I could level past lvl 8 in tristram runs without getting hostiled by every other player, or for Gods sake run at least to lvl 14 (I don't even use stats/skills til 20)without having to go into private games, my attitude might change. If i may talk for regular PVMers for a moment here, what gives you the right to come in and ruin every game in act 2? Upon hearing that horrible hostile sound, a party of 8 people levelling in Sewers will have 5 leave thru chicken, and the poor PVMers are left with some sophmoric kid calling them noobs cause they won't fight some (OK, it's a pally or assn - YOU'RE ALL PALLIES OR ASSASSINS) souped up killer (with an obvious nm merc). And the guy WON'T leave til the game is disbanded altogether. I sometimes have trouble discerning if the actual goal is to kill people -- or make everyone leave.
And then I see countless posts about So N So bringing in a lvl 87 Barb to DUEL my lvl 18 Pker. What you seem to miss is the fact that the lvl 87 baba was the person that made the game you ruined, so please don't have the audacity to infer that he ruined YOUR Pk game in the forum. If you are persistent enuff that you make me leave a game, please rest assured that i will bring in someone to take away that thrill of victory. If you are THAT frenetic for a fight that you need to harrass people to fight you, join a duel game and fight your own kind (pally vs. assn, assn vs. assn, or the VERY original pally vs. pally).
And I know there are honorable Pk'ers. And I think (hope) most of them congregate in this forum. My point here is to express another opinion, one that I think has been relegated to the backseat. I love your Pk stories, as long as you obey the rules. And I have no problem if a lvl 40 sorc stands up to your lvl 18 pally or assn and you teach your terrible brand of awareness. And I actually learn alot from reading your tales of horror (with countless ways of dressing up pallies and assassins). But please don't forget how you were before you got tremendously bored with this game, and needed that extra thrill of hunting.
OH, btw, first post - like, gib itemz or something. I'm sure I can work up enough energy to post again in 6 months or so - sorry about the length! (like I haven't told that to enough women).
Although I agree with some of what you say.. I will point out that Chicken life and Chicken hostile are two entirely different things really.
Most of the chicken hostile people i come across are just trying to avoid tppk'ers, but chicken lifers are avoiding dying entirely, whether it PvP or PvM. Most of the people complaining who PK are more complaining against the chicken life.
Very nice post Hig, and hi :)
As I'm sure you know from lurking, I duel and PK on a regular basis, and abhore chickenhack. You may be right that chickenhack is a result of PKers, however, I think its FAR more due to TPPKers than legit pkers. If there were ONLY legit PKers, I think there would be far less chickenhacking.
That said, even if people DID chickenhack thanks to us legit pkers, thats NO excuse. I have every right to complain about someone cheating to counter a 100% legit activity I partake in. Of course I cant stop them from doing it, just like I cant stop botters from botting, maphackers from maphacking, tppkers from tppking, etc etc.
If they do it because I legitly PK, I guess I cant do much about it, but its really no excuse, and if anything, it makes me want to kill them even more. So yeah, it might have a SMALL part to do with legit PKers, but I dont think its very much.
Now, to prove that point, that legit PKers are not why people chickenhack, let me point out that in duel games, 98% of people chickenhack. They are NOT going to be PKed against their will in a PK game. They may duel and die, but they wont be PKed, that alone is enough to convince me that people chickenhack for reasons other than legit PKers.
-Matt
Dear God where to start?
Ill start with the All about PK part. Most of us if not all of us have played this game every possible way when it comes to PvM. There is very little left that a person could not know. PKing isnt responsible for chicken its the TPPK that was ever so rampant towards the end of 09 and ever since. If TPPK wasnt around the average moron could evade a legit pker without using chicken.
Second part Ill address this:And then I see countless posts about So N So bringing in a lvl 87 Barb to DUEL my lvl 18 Pker. What you seem to miss is the fact that the lvl 87 baba was the person that made the game you ruined, so please don't have the audacity to infer that he ruined YOUR Pk game in the forum. If you are persistent enuff that you make me leave a game, please rest assured that i will bring in someone to take away that thrill of victory. If you are THAT frenetic for a fight that you need to harrass people to fight you, join a duel game and fight your own kind (pally vs. assn, assn vs. assn, or the VERY original pally vs. pally
A legit pker will only hunt at or above thier level. They may have ruined your game but they did so without breaking any rules. If you have to bring a lvl 87 blah blah to fight thier lvl 18 blah blah they still won, just dont have an ear to show for it.
To suggest joining a dueling game isnt really correct. A Pker is built differantly than a dueler as much as a pvp is built differant then a pvmer.
You did articulate your views in a non flaming manner ( though im sure you ll need your asbestos suit by the time its done) Everyone has a diff view on how to play this game which is why its lasted as long as it has
slick4hire
11-01-2005, 03:26
Yawn... Most people here are pkers in their off time. So, I ask, what is the true point in your thread?
Chicken was created to deal with pkers... 1 word for chicken users: softcore.
As for leveling past 8 without being hostiled, one more word: Wah! Take your worn out arguments (I say worn out because there was nothing original in your post) elsewhere.
As for the "All assassins/pallies" portion of your thread: Those are the easy ones to build so they are the ones you see most often. Try making a druid/zon/sorc/necro (which I assure you are all VERY effective when built properly) to do the same job.
And last but not least, your "honorable pker" portion of the post; if you hope most here are honorable pkers (which you specifically said you don't have a problem with) and you don't want to mention TPPK'ers, then just what is it that you are complaining about? There are two types of pkers: legit and script kiddies. If you have no problems with both, why did you write a thread complaining about pkers?
I have to say, the only portion of your post I enjoyed was the length joke at the end of the thread.
Very respectfully...
to be fair, he presented his argument in a non-inflammatory manners. I think the least we could do, is give the same respect.
( though im sure you ll need your asbestos suit by the time its done)
I hope not... hes done NOTHING worthy of flaming, he disagreed with most of us, sort of... but he did it in a very mature way and was in no way offensive. I would hope all of us can keep a perfectly reasonable debate flame free....
-Matt
slick4hire
11-01-2005, 03:34
Cougar is right... I had a bad day at work and there was your thread. Sorry for the flaming portion. Everything else, however, still holds true.
BTW, welcome to the forums (if it actually means anything at this point).
Maybe I need to be on medication for being bi-polar...
:rant:
I would like to bring to awareness, as much as the last three points have described the reason for chicken, none of us really know. Why did mousepad decide to put it chicken into his maphack? was mousepad fed up with tppk? I highly doubt this is the case. I think for a person like that, it's strictly ego covered up with excuses. That's neither here nor there, just thought I'd mention that we don't know why it's been included and nor does it matter. I for one believe the death of PVP began long before chickenhack, but when maphack first allowed you to scan another persons character.
Anyhoo....I'd like to bring another perspective.
In .09, especially before maphack scanning, I loved to duel; but even more, I loved to PKK. Nothing gave me a greater thrill then dishing it out to a pk who thought he was #1 killer in the game. Great times. Never pk'd a soul, was infact very anti-pk. Then comes in your item scanning maphack. Now you have pk's and pvm's using mh alike, making it very difficult to do what I enjoyed (which i think we can all agree is both respectable by pvp's and pvm's alike). Then come's chicken...
Heres a common scenerio:
Pk joins game, pk hostiles party, pk comes into arcane where I am waiting. Pk chases me, Pk chickens when I hit him.
Now, I need an explanation here, because if all that was said is true, pk's are the cause and reason for people using chicken. What is the cause and reason here?
The fact is, pk's are not the cause of chicken, they are not the reason it exists, and they are not the reason it is so widely used. PVP is a legit part of diablo, and hardcore was created to be a more challenging way to play the game. Unfortunately too many people play hardcore that are not able to handle the losses, so they resort to cheats (maphack any way you use it) to keep up.
P.S. Was a bit offended by "doubt there are many players (count them on 2 hands) that can build chars better then me." Honestly, I could build a pvm char and make it a guardian with my eyes closed. As is the case with every person I play with. I would never be so, for the lack of a better word "arrogant", say I can build better chars then others in a place such as the hardcore forum where the main population is pvp fanatics....if you're on east I'd love to get together and talk online.
Nerf-Herder
11-01-2005, 04:28
chicken hack was not developed to thwart PKing attempts (legitimate or otherwise) -- that hack is older than the TPPK programs, it is even older than the old BM zon triggers and about the same age as the BM warp or fastWP progs that mike and company began using around april//may of 2002 -- ask phantom about these, not because he ever used them (i dont think he ever has), but because he is//was a member of that clan and IIRC a moderator of their site forums
chicken first appeared around that same time (april//may 2002) as an add on module for some other hack program (d2hackit or something) and even then was used only sparingly until it was attached to the pindlebot scripts that became public that summer
this is a little slice of USeast hardcore diablo2 history as witnessed by me -- i played ALOT during this period and almost exclusively in public games, so i was quite familiar with all the gossip and newer hack programs floating around
its the hostile chicken that was developed in direct response to TPPK and zon triggers
and PLEASE dont blame the legit PKs for any of this -- they are so damn easy to avoid -- i dont think i EVER killed anyone in my PK days who didnt have ample time to get the hell out of the area before dropping their ear
MoUsE_WiZ
11-01-2005, 04:42
Just for the record because I get bored of seeing it:
1) Mousepad did NOT write chicken, he just decided to attach it to his MH. There's a difference.
2) Chicken was around long before .09 zon tppks, in that it was more or less the first program made when packet sending became all the rage. It was not very widely used when it first came out though.
3) Same with inventory scanning, thank yobguls for that, not mousepad (although I'm aware azazazazaz didn't actually credit mousepad for writing it, just for packaging it I still feel the need to mention this along with the above).
Relativity
11-01-2005, 04:42
As for the reason there are so many threads on pk'ing and builds... What else is there to talk about? Honestly, we have a lot of experienced players who know what they're doing in PvM, so I wouldn't expect to see every thread to be "Need help with PvM Zon" or something similar... People want to talk about something that interests them, so they post about their PvP builds and ask for help to make them the best they can be. If you, or any other PvM player, wants to see more PvM oriented threads in this predominantly PvP hardcore forum (am I wrong?), then please, feel free to post to your heart's content.
AS you may have noticed, I don't post very often, and i worked for that dang post - worked hard to not be offensive, but i failed in a couple of areas.
I don't think chicken was incorporated in Mousepad's evil monster of a program because of Pks. I think it was incorporated because of hc, though, and agree that the <plural dirty word> who die easily are the main users. That said, I think alot of people use it NOW, because of the multitudes of pk's found in games. And yes, I definitely pointed out that TPPK'ers are not worth mentioning. They are evil and they should eat all their offspring.
And I never said my characters were better than all but 10 people on bnet, I said there were not many people that make better chars. I know tons of players that can make chars as good as mine - even pointed out my heavy use of reference materials for builds and ideas - I was just trying to get some credentials out there, not say I'm king of the world. I thought that last line of the post clearly shows that I don't wanna get involved in a manhood measuring contest.
And Az, I made a PKK and applaud your efforts, but I had the exact same results. It was actually the line in your last post about the "friend of a friend" that didn't want you hostiling him that conjured up my post. I know it probably didn't happen, but i saw some poor schlub out there looking for anything to get someone to not hostile him. And therein lies the gist of my post. I used that PKK char to level in pub games (chumming) and he was hostiled in EVERY game i entered, but no one would hunt him, they stayed in town waiting to scan my gear first, then they chickened. So i decided to post about how difficult for PVM guys to get by now. I imagine alot of people bought Diablo for Xmas from bargain bins and this is the PK world they enter they get hostiled in every game they enter -- no one will fight them if they can win, and everyone that can beat them will use any means (some quite mean) to goad them out of town.
If you are not one of those nasty Pkers, I wasn't referring to you, and took great pains (still am) to not upset your world. I thought I made it clear that I don't have a problem with Pk'ing, just the ones that are nasty about it.
Nerf-Herder
11-01-2005, 04:49
...and took great pains (still am) to not upset your world.
youre out of the closet hig -- its your world now as well!!
now for the official Nerfster forum baptismal of teh l337 Higman
higgy higgy bo biggy, banana fana fo figgy...
welcome to the fourms !! -- and for the record -- NOONE can type banana fana faster than the nerf -- pheer mah leet skeeeeeeelz!!
Well written but imo you've eyeballed THIS precise forum with lack of care. We discuss a lot of different matters here, we have pure PvM character builds discussions, KTA discussions, bs OT discussions... Maybe you're just so obsessed on the "fact" that 'PK MEH NO LIKE'?
(not being flamy or anything, just pointing out that you miss to see the forest from the trees)
CookiesnCream
11-01-2005, 07:54
I don't mind pkers, legit pkers are easy to avoid. I have a problem with TPPKers though. They're just pkers without the skill to pk legitly. And a lot of Pkers and duelers use chicken hack too, it really has nothing to do with a response to tppk as others have mentioned. Chicken hack is for people without the balls to accept that fact that they died and should be playing softcore.
Cleglaw_Himself
11-01-2005, 08:31
Welcome Hig.
Good to see another lurker coming out of the shadows!
The thing I find funny is that a lot (actually make that almost all) of pkers that I see in games use chicken, not to mention ppl in dueling games (omg!).
The pkers talk tough vs pvm, but don't usually come back when you chicken them with a pkk.
I see a lot of pvmers using chicken and even some with names like 'itppkudie' lvling up with me in baal runs, etc. That really irks me.
Legit pk is very easy to avoid. Even tppk is really if you're careful.
MoUsE_WiZ
11-01-2005, 09:04
So anyways I was trying to pk this guy who was in a baal run game on his own, he went to town and sat there, just as I was leaving some level 8X joins the game. Thirty seconds later in trade channel "OMG I HATE PKS".
I don't see why he couldn't have just let me have his ear if he was going to play with some level 8X in norm baals -.-
Tao_of_Xero
11-01-2005, 15:12
(OK, it's a pally or assn - YOU'RE ALL PALLIES OR ASSASSINS)
to be fair, some of us use Zon and druids and even necro's. And not for tppk either believe it or not :) and neither of my pk's use might mercs.
Chiller_babe
11-01-2005, 15:33
to be fair, some of us use Zon and druids and even necro's. And not for tppk either believe it or not :) and neither of my pk's use might mercs.
Yeah blessed aim is a real boon - otherwise you keep missing those pesky critters ;)
Welcome to the forums Hig, nice to see a new face! Your friend BTW, was he power levelling in sewers or just questing through? Most pubby PK's just can't be bothered to hunt around for someone not easily found.
Call a game LVL FAST SEWERZ or somesuch and you are just begging a lazy PKer to come and squish you.
Chill
And last but not least, your "honorable pker" portion of the post; if you hope most here are honorable pkers (which you specifically said you don't have a problem with) and you don't want to mention TPPK'ers, then just what is it that you are complaining about? There are two types of pkers: legit and script kiddies. If you have no problems with both, why did you write a thread complaining about pkers?
I have to say, the only portion of your post I enjoyed was the length joke at the end of the thread.
Very respectfully...
By honourable pkers he is refering to those who may enter agame and make an attempt but leave if they fail. He does complain about those kiddies who decide to stay and disrupt the resumption of the game till all leave.
cyradis2003
11-01-2005, 16:10
(lost 2 chars this season to ignorance), (OK 1 was just a heroic attempt to save Cy)
Notice he doesn't mention all my characters that he didn't die to protect.
SMOOOOCHIES!!!!
I was his pardner in crime during our ill-fated PKK attempts, I say ill-fated because we didn't get to kill any. As he says we got hostiled nearly everygame but NO ONE ever came looking for us. (we were NOT hard to find, we were about 4 screens from the sewer wp in a sewer game for heaven's sake) We got hostiled half a dozen times in the same game as a matter of fact. There was also one guy that would enter all the games and hostile then leave - obviously chicken checking ... funny but annoying to anyone trying to just level up.
As to him being arrogant ... OH HELL YES he is but that's part of what makes him so fun :D
As to his final line on the first post ... O.O
Ho hum hum ho, I think I have the right to a say too now, especially after all has been said and done.
Blaming pk's for chicenhack, is, as stated, foolishness. Chickenhack was already present, but it became well-spread only after the dam triggers. Europe is always last to catch on with the hacking crap, so I found it very annoying that now roughly 50% of the people on HC use it, and 95% of all pk's and duellers.
Apart from this forum being lots of pk and not much else, well, your point of view against mine. Yes, there are some threads about pk's, but theres also KTA and loads of other stuff (OT, PvM). Besides, complaining about that is about as pointless as pissing into the wind. You are not going to change it, no matter how much you complain.
terrymanning
11-01-2005, 17:23
When I used to play hardcore and actively participated in this forum, I was one of the few anti-pk forum members. I know from experience that most complaints about pk-ing fall on deaf ears around here. And to be honest, in most cases, it is right that they do.
As most everyone has already stated, the legit pk-er is playing within the rules of the game. And as long as they don’t cheat, even the lame “kill your level 9 with my level 90” person is playing within the rules. I’m sure you know from reading some of the posts, some people here don’t think that even that behavior is lame.
I think what the majority of the “honorable and legit” pks on this board fail to realize, or won’t admit, is that the tactics of 99.9% of the pk-ers on b-net are incredibly lame. For every level 12 pk that stalks the sewers in Act II, there are 100 level 29 pks. For every level 27 in normal Baal runs, there are 100 level 60s. So when people come here and complain about the pks, and it’s usually the lame pks that people complain about, some of the pks on this board are offended. Either they are offended that you are lumping them in the same category as the lamer or they know you are talking about them. Either way they are offended.
As for chicken hack, bad playing created the demand for this, not pks. Some people just didn’t like the fact that their characters could actually die. The addition of "chicken hostile" was a natural progression I suppose. Either way, chicken hack has done the most to undermine the basic integrity of the game.
Just for the record, I also think it’s extraordinarily hypocritical when any pk complains about someone bringing in a high level character to try and kill their pk character. Remember, it’s all about them loading up a level 12 character to do the damage of a level 45, not about you actually bringing in a level 45 to try and counter them. Hell, that’s just not fair (but remind them, it is within the rules).
Hardcore is a different game than softcore and it attracts different people. Some people are in it just to bring grief to others any way they can. It’s just something you have to get used to.
Chiller_babe
11-01-2005, 18:08
I think what the majority of the “honorable and legit” pks on this board fail to realize, or won’t admit, is that the tactics of 99.9% of the pk-ers on b-net are incredibly lame. For every level 12 pk that stalks the sewers in Act II, there are 100 level 29 pks. For every level 27 in normal Baal runs, there are 100 level 60s. So when people come here and complain about the pks, and it’s usually the lame pks that people complain about, some of the pks on this board are offended. Either they are offended that you are lumping them in the same category as the lamer or they know you are talking about them. Either way they are offended.
I am not sure about that one Terry. Most of the folks here, especially the long standing ones, know very well the moronity(new word) of the average bnet PKer. If they didn't, all they have to do is have a quick scout at the battlnet forums;)
The reason some get offended is more, I feel, that someone needs to come here and spout off. We KNOW most PKers are twats. We KNOW most PKers are lame. We KNOW most PKers are chicken using morons that deserve to be strangled with their own large intestine. It's just the folks here aren't "most PKers" and are in actual fact a knowledgable bunch of generally nice folks;)
Why can't everyone come here and be positive like:
Hi I am new here (GIB ITEMZ) could you please suggest me a good strategy to be able to stand up to noob pkers?
Answers will be leave, build a dueler, level in weird areas, avoid runs - you know the score:) Even join a group of folks - AB, GAT, KTA or wherever - or join the dark side, you know you will love it^^
Ramble ended
Chill
Just for the record because I get bored of seeing it:
1) Mousepad did NOT write chicken, he just decided to attach it to his MH. There's a difference.
2) Chicken was around long before .09 zon tppks, in that it was more or less the first program made when packet sending became all the rage. It was not very widely used when it first came out though.
3) Same with inventory scanning, thank yobguls for that, not mousepad (although I'm aware azazazazaz didn't actually credit mousepad for writing it, just for packaging it I still feel the need to mention this along with the above).
Thanks. No, i did mean to imply he created either proggy as I was well aware it was present long before it was in maphack. It even came with a nifty little message when the chicken user quit "I am quitting the game because I am too CHICKEN" or something along those lines.
I have a slightly OT question for any pvp person out there. How many times have you hostiled a known tppk, and then they have actually left town and dueled you?
I can think of maybe twice. It was late last night and I was browsing the nm games and saw a baal run with 3 tppk sorcs in it. I had to join. After entering the game, to my surprise all three were still sitting in town! I was shocked! well I hostiled them all (lvl 55 pally), had to do it, there was no way around it. Had to test my theory. and wouldnt you know it, none came out to duel wittle old me.
I just think triggers, tppks whatever you wanna call them are so easily handled. If there are three baal games currently running in normal. Lets say:
Baal Run 02
TacoBaal 07 (never really liked this baal name)
I Baal 4 u-01
which game do you think will fill up faster. The more experienced player may join the Baal Run 02 noticing that it is a common name and it is only on the 2nd run therefore likely to have open spots and to fill up soon. Another player may not care which he joins he's just happy to get into a damn game before it fills, but I'd be willing to put money on it that the "I Baal 4 U" game is the one thats likely going to receive the most attention. Face it, people on diablo are lazy. I'm not saying everyone is lazy (hats off to KTA), but the population in general are lazy and looking for a quick fix. And then they have the audacity (spelling?) to question why they always get picked on by tppk. If you're careful, observant, and have a strong enough character, all qualities a hardcore player should have anyways, it isn't that difficult to avoid tppk.
Just something that had been brewing upstairs that I had to put into words and get it outta there :)
No hard feelings Hig
Cheers
DOUBLE POST!!!!!!
I just finished typing my post and then read Chillers and thought I should give honorable mention to someone I spoke to yesterday online.
For all those east duelers you've probably seen this little Taco char in the duel games recently. Not doing anything spectacular just hanging around picking up the odd easy duel.
Well Sec decided he'd kill him, so he killed him. There goes Taco_l. The next day he's got another lld named Taco_ll, well Helz decided he'd kill him. So he killed him. On to Taco_lll. Well I figured it was time for me to step in, so it's safe to say it's time for Taco_IV. By this time the poor guy is paranoid of anyone in a duel game, and I can't really blame him (we weren't the friendliest bunch of duelers either).
Decided I'd have a little chat with Taco and basically what came out of it was, "If you see me doing anything noobish or BM like please let me know right away instead of just ripping on me and I will correct it as fast as I can."
I believe it to be a genuine request, and for a person to be just beginning dueling now I have to admit it would be rather easy to pick up some bad habbits, I mean its the blind leading the blind out there. I just thought that kinda went along with what Chiller was saying.
I'm done for real this time!
We KNOW most PKers are chicken using morons that deserve to be strangled with their own large intestine. It's just the folks here aren't "most PKers" and are in actual fact a knowledgable bunch of generally nice folks;)
Chill
Yes I agree and when I get pked by someone from this forum it is so much more pleasant. So much so that I die with a smile on my face.RIP.
cyradis2003
11-01-2005, 18:55
We play private games 98% of the time anyway so he wasn't complaining that pk's pick on him.
I think it is just the point that if you look at it from the other side you can see why the egit pvm's complain about pk.
Here is a small example of annoyance - and this is 90% my fault for letting my guard down :)
I was babysitting an aquaintance in trist games, by this I mean I was filling a spot on my big sorc and giving the babies enchant while watching tv. The game was all lvl 15 and below for 2 runs so I wasn't really paying much attention any more and I was just standing on the inside edge of the bridge chanting anything that ran out of town (low enchant it wore off after like 2 min) boring. I wandered away from my comp to get a soda and just left my soft tasty sorc standing very close to the edge of the bridge.
I wandered back and saw a 50+ pally had joined and was standing right next to me o.O I read back on the M log ... it seems he joined with a friend who was also small and doing trist runs and wondered what I was doing there. The lil ones in the game said I was giving chant and helping my friend level. That should have been the end of it but his little friend actually said "Don't kill her, she is helping"
So I was aparently on the menu for about 45 seconds there because I was standing too close to the edge. I know it is silly to stand there, I have read the stories of town kill etc but it just never crossed my mind. Imagine the player who has no idea this even exists does the same but the pally doesn't stop to ask what is happening and just kills the sorc. The pally may feel he has prevented a pretty lame pk from a sneaky chanter or he may just have been bored and decided to kill for giggles. The question is does that sorc now have the right to complain about pk's? Not all pk's would have killed the sorc, it would take the exploitation of a bug to do it as she was inside the town limit but there are enough out there who would be perfectly happy to scoop a lvl 76 ear however it was done.
Hardcore is a dangerous "world" to play in - and I don't mean just the monsters. We all know about these dangers and we do our best to avoid them but you have to understand that most people will always hate them.
*shrugs*
It won't change the world but we all need to walk a mile in the noobie's gorefoots every now and then
*yawns, stretches, comes out of nebby-cave*
*looks around, blinks* O.o
wow, I didn't know this thing still had legs left on it in '04, let alone '05.
But there is one thing here that is slightly new this go around: the "this forum has become all about pking" point, countered by the "there's nothing left to do/talk about". I'd have to agree on both points there. But on the other hand, what has there been new since 1.10- maybe a couple of way unbalanced ruinwords? Why else do you think we inevitably degenerate into spam? (besides the fact that Cy & I show up...) With all the knowledge in this forum, I'm surprised there aren't more threads of the "hey look, I just made it through hell with a grim totem baba" type. Love those grim totem babas.
cyradis2003
11-01-2005, 19:06
*yawns, stretches, comes out of nebby-cave*
*looks around, blinks* O.o
wow, I didn't know this thing still had legs left on it in '04, let alone '05.
But there is one thing here that is slightly new this go around: the "this forum has become all about pking" point, countered by the "there's nothing left to do/talk about". I'd have to agree on both points there. But on the other hand, what has there been new since 1.10- maybe a couple of way unbalanced ruinwords? Why else do you think we inevitably degenerate into spam? (besides the fact that Cy & I show up...) With all the knowledge in this forum, I'm surprised there aren't more threads of the "hey look, I just made it through hell with a grim totem baba" type. Love those grim totem babas.
*cackles*
My favorite story was Mongojerry's pascifist necro's journey through hell :D
Hig and I do play a new game with chars - we make lvl 1's and then see how far we can walk/run before we die. The rules is you can open chests and look under rocks and take pots get clothes from chests etc but you can't kill anything. (trapping the way behind you is acceptable if not enjcouraged :D )
The farthest I have gotten was the barracks - he always wins though ... I think he got down to jail 2 once or twice.
We also tried the competitive questing ...good way to perm a new mule and kill a few hours at least
*cackles*
My favorite story was Mongojerry's pascifist necro's journey through hell :D
Hig and I do play a new game with chars - we make lvl 1's and then see how far we can walk/run before we die. The rules is you can open chests and look under rocks and take pots get clothes from chests etc but you can't kill anything. (trapping the way behind you is acceptable if not enjcouraged :D )
The farthest I have gotten was the barracks - he always wins though ... I think he got down to jail 2 once or twice.
We also tried the competitive questing ...good way to perm a new mule and kill a few hours at least
Back in the day of massive hell cow leeching, we used to have the "race around the farm" where after we were rushed, it was the responsibility of the leeches to herd cows for the 1 killer in the full game. So you'd have 6-7 lvl 1's running around collecting cows while the single LF zon was trying to kill them fast enough to make sure the lvl 1's wouldnt die....only 2 ppl would make it to the third run. Never made the person who just did the full norm-hell rush very happy :)
Full_Circle
11-01-2005, 20:11
Maybe if I could level past lvl 8 in tristram runs without getting hostiled by every other player, or for Gods sake run at least to lvl 14 (I don't even use stats/skills til 20)without having to go into private games, my attitude might change.
Actually, in my experience, the later it gets, the fewer PKs there are. Getting hostiled after 11pm EST on a USEast game is extremely rare...
Either that, or I have an uncanny ability to pick games for PKKing that PKs refuse to join.
Oh well, if nobody hostiles me, I can always hostile them. Ahhhh Gotta love that hostile button.
Welcome to the Forums! :D
Actually, in my experience, the later it gets, the fewer PKs there are. Getting hostiled after 11pm EST on a USEast game is extremely rare...
Are you trying to suggest that PKers are little kids who have to get to bed or they'll get grounded?
/troll
i'll offer an assumption and hopefully I wont make an *** of you and me. I find around 11:00 i'm usually in a duel game. it seems that if i'm building my chars early, dueling with them when its kinda busy, then when all the duel games die (2:00am) i might go and pk a bit if thats when i get on. Thank heavens for university scheduling! When you have 7 hours of classes and they dont start until 4:00 pm you kinda reverse your internal clock :)
Hi,
I HATE PK'ERS !!!!
And not for my own sake. I know how to avoid legit Pkers, and TPPKer's I've learnt to live with.
However my little 9 year old daughter is following in her dad foot steps and moved over to hardcore after playing softcore for a few years now.
Twice last week her barb (and rebuild) have been pk'ed, and she can't understand why other characters do this to her. I explained to her that some people are not to be trusted, they get their jollies out of killing other players. The problem is how do explain to her so she understands what is safe and what is unsafe when she's in a hardcore public game ?
For kids to understand things, they need clear and unambigious instructions, but often spotting a potential PK'er is a gut feeling that something is wrong. This sort of thing you can't make a clear rule about.
Before you question why she is playing public games .... she's like her old man ... she likes meeting people. If it wasn't for the evening playing times, I'd get her to join KTA .... but they play past her bedtime. She is unable to build up her own friends list as her written english isn't good enough to write messages to other Europeans (she half danish, living in Denmark).
You PK'ing #¤%&# made my little girl sad. Your 5 seconds of pleasure, has hurt a little kid. Not very nice at all.
* End of rant *
Regards
Syxx
Nerf-Herder
12-01-2005, 12:04
You PK'ing #¤%&# made my little girl sad. Your 5 seconds of pleasure, has hurt a little kid. Not very nice at all.
pack the bags, we are going on a guilt trip...
Chiller_babe
12-01-2005, 12:12
I was kind of convinced that D2 had an age restriction to stop little girls turning into bloodthirsty, foulmouthed, demonic forces;) - I am sure I wouldn't want a young child of mine subjected to the language on Bnet as a whole, let alone PKers.
Not a pop at you Syxx, merely an observation of the general bad stuff you see online gaming.
Chill
eurymone
12-01-2005, 12:16
Wow, Syxx, your little girl seems very special - playing hardcore at 9 years old impresses me, and makes me wonder about the "new" generation that was born into already computerized world. She's probably at the stage of asking tons of questions :D Learning about people not always being nice to each other must be a pain, and sooner or later she'll come over real life experiences on this matter I guess...
According to main topic of this thread - I must agree that "just" playing this game is getting harder and harder, and PKs are only one of the examples that come to my mind. It's the fact you're get hostiled all the time, most of people don't even know how act 3 looks like, and hell games (at least on Europe) are mostly "N CTA 6 BO O enigma" type. Playing public has nothing to do with pleasure now - I'm so happy I have KTA!
I was kind of convinced that D2 had an age restriction to stop little girls turning into bloodthirsty, foulmouthed, demonic forces;) - I am sure I wouldn't want a young child of mine subjected to the language on Bnet as a whole, let alone PKers.
Not a pop at you Syxx, merely an observation of the general bad stuff you see online gaming.
Chill
Hi Chill,
I too was initially worried about the language used by some people on Bnet, but since my daughters level of reading and writing in english (her second language) isn't that good, she doesn't understand most of what is said.
Initially my wife was worried about our daughter playing a game in which you "kills" things .... incase subconsciencely she started to relate it to killing in real life. I told her to ease up, we are just slapping around some electornic monsters. Our daughter won't end up a pyschopath ... and 3 years later and no deaths caused by my daughter ... I seem to be right :D
@Nerf : I hope one day you have kids, and see the other side.
@Eurymone : About 6 months ago I was pickpocked and lost my wallet. My daughter was with me at the time. She was very hurt that someone would even consider stealing her dads wallet. We bought her up with normal values about honesty and the difference between right and wrong. It was a rude awakening for her to the "real world", and that not all people are 'good'. Arh, the innocence of youth.
Regards
Syxx
"Here comes the controversy: my viewpoint has always been that PK'ers in HC are nearly solely responsible for all the chicken users, and now every other thread includes a whine about chicken users. Here's an eye-opener for ya, Mousepad wouldn't have made chicken if not for HC, and HC's most notorius killer has become Pkers."
This bit I like :)
So, blame Blizzard for the hacks and cheats 'cause they made HC in the first place. Poor mousepad..he had to programm a cheat programm because all the evil PKers played the game with all the possibilities that were included from the programmers. (including pw protected games and the possibility to set a level restriction)
Hm..maybe this will all change with pure pvp servers on WoW and we finally can only blame our own ineptitude when we die...
@ Syxx. Perhaps you missed the rated M stamped on the packaging of the game. This is not a game or 9 year old or if you do the math of how long you say shes played , the age of 7. There are far better games you could be introducing her to for her age that might actually help her learn something.
This game isnt meant forr half the 15 year olds who play it as it is. But to let a little girl be exposed to the language I see online , I dont care what her reading level is , she ll learn and then she ll use it. You want to play with your daughter great , Im all for it , but maybe you should rethink what that activity should be, and if you still must have her play D2 have her play with your friends or even you , most certainly not in a public game.
Edit: Before i get the Nefs response of " maybe when you have kids...." I do have kids I have an 8 year old son and a 5 year old daughter. I dont shield my children from much , but I explain everything to them. My son has asked to play D2 and I indulged him once but rethought it when I saw what he was getting into. I introduced him into some racing games and some other platform games and he has a bunch of educational games that he loves. My daughter has her learning games as well and I do play them or atleast watch her play those.
To sum it up This is game was not intended for a 9 year old , and public play makes it that much worse, heck send her outside and play with gasp other kids her age
Hi Stimm,
You make some excellent points and I appreciate it. You would not have gotten the Nerf-response, because you offered a mature and well thought out response. I thank you for that.
I don't recall seeing an age limit on the Diablo II box when I bought it, as I was in my 30's and I bought the game for myself, not my daughter. It was a while ago and all I have now are the CD's themselves, not the boxes or documentation.
I must admit I was rather proud of her ability to even play the game, that I never thought too deeply about the interactions with other people. The game did wonders for her mouse skills.
You have given me something to think about .... thanks
Regards
Syxx
Hi Stimm,
You make some excellent points and I appreciate it. You would not have gotten the Nerf-response, because you offered a mature and well thought out response. I thank you for that.
I don't recall seeing an age limit on the Diablo II box when I bought it, as I was in my 30's and I bought the game for myself, not my daughter. It was a while ago and all I have now are the CD's themselves, not the boxes or documentation.
I must admit I was rather proud of her ability to even play the game, that I never thought too deeply about the interactions with other people. The game did wonders for her mouse skills.
You have given me something to think about .... thanks
Regards
Syxx
a superb solution that will keep both, you AND your lil' kid happy:
...
Let her play SP. Tell her that the MP part is broke or remove her account or something. In Single player no one is there to introduce her to bad language or to PK her. It's not as fun (or wouldn't be for us...) but i think she'll get used to it pretty darned fast.
I must confess I am guilty of letting my 9 year old son play the game as well. he now runs a lv 63 Hammerdin in HCLadder..but he also has been PKed with another character and was left very sad. He also had a few mules with items he found expire..and that made him even more sad.
The starnge thing is that my sons both a PCs in their room with a LAN conection and could play together safely all the time, yet the younger one is always drawn to battle.net (under supervision). he knows to look for GAT games and my account should get recognized. Just don't expect him other things to say then Hi, thx and lol :)
He also plays a lot of private games or helps ppl in normal to quest. He is suspicious of higher lv characters and I am trying to show him why low lvs can be a danger too.
Yes, I am aware of the "mature" seal, its even "age 16 and above" here, which I think its a joke if you refer to the content of the game itself (the videos are actually scary, I give you that).
BTW in germany the age restriction is printed on the game box AND even on the jewel cases of the CD...
Chiller_babe
12-01-2005, 15:19
The starnge thing is that my sons both a PCs in their room with a LAN conection and could play together safely all the time, yet the younger one is always drawn to battle.net (under supervision). he knows to look for GAT games and my account should get recognized. Just don't expect him other things to say then Hi, thx and lol :)
I must stop flaming you online for ignoring my questions then^^
Chill
Hehe...well..he plays on *det-3 with his Hammerdin by the name of...wait for it..."Hamadin"
...or if you see the account *simon99 in a GAT game...thats det jr. Don't panic when you mule..he likes to pick up stuff and look at it...
:)
...or if you see the account *simon99 in a GAT game...thats det jr. Don't panic when you mule..he likes to pick up stuff and look at it...
:)
*heh* I do that too - I do drop the stuff again though ;)
Hehe...well..he plays on *det-3 with his Hammerdin by the name of...wait for it..."Hamadin"
...or if you see the account *simon99 in a GAT game...thats det jr. Don't panic when you mule..he likes to pick up stuff and look at it...
:)
Hehe i can see it now, you log onto his acct and his character is full of everyone elses stuff and everyone is calling you a thief. Damn that Det taking all our stuff grumble grumble
cyradis2003
12-01-2005, 18:31
*heh* I do that too - I do drop the stuff again though ;)
me too :o
I ask first though unless you are too quick for me ....
Usually goes like this:
Cy: Hullo Person!
Person: Hi Cy, it's me - insert whatever odd name I like to call you but can never remember
Cy: Oooooh! Hi!
Person: Mind if I mule?
Cy: Okies - knock yerself out
Person has left our world diablos minions weaken
Cy: If it would not be an imposition would you mind if I peeked at a few of these items? I haven't seen them before and my curiosity quite overwhelms me
Cy: Oh .... he left
Person has joined our world Diablos minions yada yada yada ....
*drops items like they were hot*
Cy: Lalalalaaaalalalaaaa .... *hums innocently*
Person: huh?
Cy: nuthin - just lookin 0:D
Person: Oh .... OK
To sum it up This is game was not intended for a 9 year old , and public play makes it that much worse, heck send her outside and play with gasp other kids her age
Always a good idea to go outside and play.
My 11 y/o neice lives with us and played D2 for about a year. Under no circumstances was she allowed to play in pubbies, just for the language. But I had no issues with her opening an account with the Basin and playing there.
She continued to play there for quite a while until her lvl 60+ druid died. That kinda took the wind out of her young sail and she quit.
But it is like anything else a parent should do. Be aware of your kid's activities, supervise, and allow them to grow.
Nerf-Herder
13-01-2005, 02:14
settle down dude -- you made it seem like everyone i killed back in my PKing days was a helpless, hapless, sweet little nine-year old girl
its simply not the case (tho alot of my victims acted like they were nine)
public hardcore can be a very vulgar experience -- i highly recommend steering your daughters online diablo2 gaming time towards KTA, GAT-Europe or the amazon basin -- many of the people in these groups are very cordial and respectful of the fact that many others in the group have children
she may not know much english now, but do you REALLY want her to learn it from public diablo gaming? -- you may as well park her in front of the TV and let her memorize eddie murphys "delirious"
GOONEY GOO GOO AUNT BUNNY!!
Phantom_Man
13-01-2005, 04:25
All those pages and I only read one of them. He makes good points, sort of, but then again, I didn't actually read most of it(I'm really good at browsing poorly.)
That being said, I'll only address one point(even if it was already noted). Nerf, I did use TPPK in .09 and for about 2.39 minutes in 1.1. Chicken came before TPPK, but it's pretty safe to say that it was popularized because of TPPK(and vice versa.)
So, who wants cookies?
Nerf-Herder
13-01-2005, 05:26
i assumed you never used them because i only knew you as a memeber of their legit team (kinda like chunkzilla was even before they had a legit team)
thanks for being honest and candid tho, and even more thanks for not using it anymore
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