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View Full Version : Very early stages of a possible dueler down the road... ~50 Oath Fury druid or Zealot


Matt
11-01-2005, 00:20
The idea here is to be able to beat up on Oath barbs with reasonable consistency, and not horribly expensive gear.

I think a 1handed Fury wolf or zealot is probably the way to go (outside of a smiter, who will win all the time, and never kill anything)

So, my thoughts are:
An oath weapon, the level of the dueler will be somewhere between 47 and 54, 47 being the lvl req on Gore riders, my minumum level therefore, and 54 the highest I'd conscider, the level on a Phase Blade.

I'll be using an Oath weapon, thanks to its indestructable mod, 50% IAS, and great ED, its other mods are very nice too, but those are the most important ones, as we all know.

For my amulet, I'm thinking Cats eye, or POSSIBLY a tele ammy (who expects a tele-zealot?)
Rings: 2 ravenfrosts
Belt: String of ears
Boots: Gore Riders
Hat: Guilliames Face, or on the druid, Jalals.
Shield will be a HoZ on the paladin, or an AToD on the druid
Gloves will be, depending on my IAS needs, IK, Bloodfists, or possibly some 20% IAS pair.

Thats what I'm relativly sure of.

What I'm not so sure about are:
Armor: Probably Shaftstop on the druid, however, having holy shield, and HoZ, I was thinking an eth Stone armor might be an option on the zealot, in order to load up on defense.
The main problem i see is that the rest of his gear is relativly low on str reqs, I dont want to so much higher just to get to an eth stone armor.

So PROBABLY shaftstop, though an eth stone is an option as well.

Now, what weapon would be ideal here?

Phase blades are possible, because they are the fastest of the lot, though I would only use those if I needed the extra speed on them to hit 4 frame zeal or fury, because being non eth, the very nice indestructable mod would go to waste on a phase blade, and its the highest lvl req of the lot, and its damage is also lower.

Small crescents are also an option, coming in at [10] speed. They are level 45 req, and would get 4 sockets by default with a socket quest. They have higher damage, though they are slower. If I decide to go level 47, this looks like the best bet.

So, I see those as my 2 main options, the phase blade needing 40% less IAS per breakpoint, and having 11 less average damage, and being level 54, the Small crescent would be what I'd use if I decide its not practical to go for 4 frame zeal, and stay at a lower level, and have more damage.

I figure I would have level 22 Fanatacism at level 50, so level 19 at 47. (the only +2 coming from HoZ)
Assuming that is correct, the IAS calculator says I would need ZERO %IAS to hit 4 frame zeal with the Phade Blade, and 86% to hit 4 frame zeal with the Small Crescent, and 19% to hit 5 frames with the crescent.

So, at this point, I lean towards the paladin, because he can hit 4 frames using an Oath weapon, the Druid cannot (he can hit 5, using the phase blade)

The paladin seems more versatile, having higher defense, FAR better blocking, I could probably keep it near base dex, and having holy shield and 40 dex from the ravens, and 20 from IK, plus 20 cats eye, hit max blocking with a HoZ.
In addition, the paladin will have a point in charge, making him quicker to move around, and in and out of whirling barbs. The druid will have higher life, however, he will also have to spend more points outside of vitality, namely in dexterity, due to his lesser blocking.

Also, the paladin will have 30% more deadly strike, since he will use guilliames, and the druid will use jalals.

Basically, the druid seems a bit better at taking damage, however the paladin seems like he can dish it out faster and harder than the druid.

Both should have 45% damage reduction, and well over 1000 life, which I hope should let them take a whirl from an Oath BB barb, when their blocking is included. Of course, I wont stand there and take whirls, I'll be charging in and out, taking a minimum of hits while I jump in zeal them at the end of their whirl.

So, I guess I lean towards the 54 zealot, using the Phase blade, simply because it can hit 4 frames with no outside IAS other than from fanatacism. I think this will offset the somewhat significantly lower damage than with the small crescent, both because its faster, and because I dont have to worry about IAS on my other gear to bump up his speed using the phase.

Oh, are ed or max jewels better for zealots? Max damage, correct?

Thanks.

-Matt

sahlakh
11-01-2005, 00:50
Your attack rating will be poor, and so will the damage. Barbs will have plenty of time to revuv / quit / chicken (if you can challenge them at all), and there's a chance that you'll get 1-hit killed (zerk).

Of course, if you count drops as a victory, they build might be fun. If not, I'd say forget it. That's the state of hardcore dueling.

lvl 59 (yeah 59) smiter with grief would be my best bet. Amp on switch. Insane damage.

If you're going with a zealot anyway, defence is the way to go IMO.

rachil0
11-01-2005, 00:55
I think oath in a phase blade isn't very good. Presuming perfect rolls:

Phase:
33 avg * 4.4 oath ed = 145.2 avg

Crescent
49 avg * 1.5 ethereal * 4.4 oath ed = 323 avg (ouch!)

I think you'd be best off using the beefy weapon and really cranking up ias:
Ik glove+belt 25
shaft socket 15
helm socket 15
hoz socket 15
cats eye 20
= 90 total

You loose the teleport, which is a drag. But you more than double your average damage! Plus you get the option really crank out some more damage by spending dough on double mod jewels. That choice isn't even available with a phase blade setup.

Since you want it cheap, just get regular fervors and whoop up regardless.

PhatTrumpet
11-01-2005, 02:26
You're not gonna have any chance against Barbs without having insane defense. That's one of the reasons Smiters do so well, so definitely make a Zealot with 'Stone' armor. You mentioned str being an issue, so use something like an ethereal Wyrmhide, Wire Fleece, or Archon Plate. When the durability gets too low for comfort (although you won't be getting hit much and you'll probably die before that happens), just put it on a Merc and retire the Pally.

As for the weapon, I must say, Phase Blade is a horrible idea because it can't even be ethereal. Ideally, I think, you'd use an ethereal Scourge at lvl 57, but they get 5 sockets max. Next one on my list would be a Cryptic Sword (4 sockets max), although lvl 61 is a bit high. The added advantage with this is the high max dmg with low min dmg, so you could possibly suprise a Barb with a high roll and a Deadly Strike, actually netting you an ear or two. A Small Crescent is just too slow since you won't be able to ias your armor. There's also Conquest Sword at lvl 58 that gets 4 sockets max, but the reqs are higher.

Tough decision. I'd go to lvl 57 and start cubing eth Scourges. This also allows you to upgrade your HoZ iirc, although the base defense gets a random roll so that's a craps shoot too. Ethereal non-upgraded HoZ maybe?

rachil0
11-01-2005, 02:34
I'm on board with a scourge too. I figured you omitted it because the runeword would not be allowed in it, but it says swords/axes/maces so you're good.

I agree that it is much better than either of the other two choices.

Matt
11-01-2005, 03:08
Ok, good advice guys!

So, If I go with an eth Oath Scourge, how much other IAS will i need to reach 4 frame zeal? The calculator I use is a little fuzzy, its either 0 or 40%....

So, heres the plan:
Guilliames
Cats eye
Eth Stone Archon/Wire Fleece (some high defense light, elite armor)
(upped?) HoZ
String of Ears (or tgods?)
Gore riders
IK gloves, or if its 40%IAS I need, Bloodfists+a fervor jewel or some 20% ias gloves
Eth Oath Scourge
2x Ravenfrosts

Sharp Grand Charms, Small charms of vita

So, I'll put damage jewels in the HoZ and whatever extra sockets i have in shaft/guilliames. (depending on IAS, may need an IAS jewel here) Max or ED jewels?

If ed jewels are better, I'll bump it up to 58, and use ~40%ED jewels.

-Matt

Pezeteros
11-01-2005, 04:21
You indeed need 40 ias for scourge (i assumed lvl 22 fana)

Phase blade is most horrible idea ever. The fact that it cant be etheral just kicks in my stomach, and has low enough base damage to begin with. Scourge/Conquest/Crescent are available, do your pick.

about ias if you wannabe more risky and opt for damage you may even attempt bloodfist + nosferatu. Biggest concern about this build is that it is not anti-chickener friendly

SilverDin
11-01-2005, 05:01
I have an eth oath druid lvl 61 with cryptic sword, he used to be lvl 51 with a crescent, but.. 6fpa was too slow, you need to do it alot quicker than that. The lvl 61 meant points into Werewolf as well as Life, Fury and Lycantrophy, so that boosts your AR.

Tai.
11-01-2005, 05:12
Ok, good advice guys!

So, If I go with an eth Oath Scourge, how much other IAS will i need to reach 4 frame zeal? The calculator I use is a little fuzzy, its either 0 or 40%....

So, heres the plan:
Guilliames
Cats eye
Eth Stone Archon/Wire Fleece (some high defense light, elite armor)
(upped?) HoZ
String of Ears (or tgods?)
Gore riders
IK gloves, or if its 40%IAS I need, Bloodfists+a fervor jewel or some 20% ias gloves
Eth Oath Scourge
2x Ravenfrosts

Sharp Grand Charms, Small charms of vita

So, I'll put damage jewels in the HoZ and whatever extra sockets i have in shaft/guilliames. (depending on IAS, may need an IAS jewel here) Max or ED jewels?

If ed jewels are better, I'll bump it up to 58, and use ~40%ED jewels.

-Matt


id personally consider going with highlords and picking up your 40 ias in other areas, ias the guillames and hoz if you go with stone, seems the added deadly would be better than having a dmg socket in ur hoz.

just a thought

cheers
-tai

PhatTrumpet
11-01-2005, 05:22
Highlord's would indeed add a lot to the build, but it would also take him to lvl 65 which would completely change just about everything else. He's already going ~10 lvls higher than he originally wanted, another 7 is just too much.

I sorta like the Nos Coil idea... slow those cocky babazangs down some. Although TGod's and String are so nice. I guess it depends on how you want to get the 40%ias. I'd probably do Bloodfists + 2 ias jewels since you'll need to wear the String vs WWers (are there many 'Oath' WWers?).

... you're gonna need a looooooooootta life charms.

Tai.
11-01-2005, 05:29
ya, i don't know why, but i remembered highlord's as having a lower req than it does, tyried to look it up on dii.net but it isnt listed in their unique amulets section, o well, ignore last post.

cheers
-tai

Matt
11-01-2005, 05:48
Highlord's would indeed add a lot to the build, but it would also take him to lvl 65 which would completely change just about everything else. He's already going ~10 lvls higher than he originally wanted, another 7 is just too much.

I sorta like the Nos Coil idea... slow those cocky babazangs down some. Although TGod's and String are so nice. I guess it depends on how you want to get the 40%ias. I'd probably do Bloodfists + 2 ias jewels since you'll need to wear the String vs WWers (are there many 'Oath' WWers?).

... you're gonna need a looooooooootta life charms.

Yeah 65 is too high.

Slower WW barbs=more dangerous, as I believe whirl speed is dependant on R/W, but I could be wrong. In other words, the slower he whirls, the more hits he lands on me, because he is moving slower and I'm in range longer.

So, need 40% IAS... I think I will go BF+ IAS jewel... I'll be using as many life charms as I can possibly get ;)

Yeah, there are a lot of Oath WWers, I dont plan to be sitting there getting hit, more of a charge in, zeal, get out of their way kind of thing. At 4 frame zeal, thats a full zeal+ in under a second, so I will be putting out some serious damage pretty damn fast, its just a matter then of not dying in 1 WW, which, with high defense and max block, I think I can pull off.
Hmm, what should I socked in my last open socket? (20 from Cats eye, 15 IAS jewel, 10 Bloodfists)

Skill placement?
Max fanat
Max holy shield? (should supplement the stone armor well)
1 Zeal (will be level 5 with the +4 from HoZ)
1 prereq's
Rest in Sacrifice?

Or should I skip Sac, and just dump the rest into Zeal to pump the AR?

-Matt

repoarto
11-01-2005, 08:31
Hmm that sounds fun build ^^

*yes barbs ww lasts longer when they stay in range longer*

I think its time to retire my lvl 39 zealer and build the new one hehe
If i see those 34-40 wolfs come back i can always re-equip the charms to him then.

and i have very good testing companion(`s) ^^ 2x barbs, ww& zerker ones heheh(adsl) ;)

my current pally has 1282 life, so i think the 5x one would have a bit more :)
and i think my friend has 2,6k def eth stone ready kih kih
At least im able to test that build in safe/lootable situation with oath barbs.

-Arto- The TesTar

rotor_001
11-01-2005, 11:17
Saw you thinking of upped hoz. I just upped one and it came out as level 68 so guess that's out.

sonikki_
11-01-2005, 16:19
just a reminder, MAL = 49 so any oath weap requires lvl 49..
i made 330% eth small crescent and it was pretty nice.. :)

rachil0
11-01-2005, 18:13
Slower WW barbs=more dangerous, as I believe whirl speed is dependant on R/W, but I could be wrong. In other words, the slower he whirls, the more hits he lands on me, because he is moving slower and I'm in range longer.


Yeah I was trying to work in nos coil when computing IAS for a crescent axe, but then I recalled you were fighting barbs so I scratched it.

repoarto
11-01-2005, 19:43
My b.net friend told that if his oath barb zerks once with good roll its goodbye to zealer pally, and with his ww-version.. even less change :/ so im not probably trying that out (yet) ^^

Instance i try guided amazon heheh but lower lvl duels than oath ones

-Arto-