can some one explain why grief is good

[lokigodzz]

i just made one in a phasr after hearing how much better than botd it is.

well here was my results

with fortuide on

botd 2k to 7k dam
grief 800 to 1k

it got 256 added dam ( crappy role i know)

phase dam still reads 31 to 36 did i just get a bugged role or what ? it says grief all the mods there.

this has be crappiest sword ever :(

[BabehJesus]

Grief = Okay.

Grief + Smite = Insane.

With the IAS and added hard damage, it's crazy good. Think 4K Smite compared to 10K Smite. You just got a bad roll.

[Dahmer]

perfect eth superior botd ba = 185-545 dmg = 365 avg
your grief phase = 287-292 dmg = 289 avg
perfect superior grief ba = 427-481 dmg = 454 avg (will not show tho)

dont look @ display too much, its bugged completely, +dmg on weapons doesnt show while it can add a huge deal of dmg

example : smite dmg on pally
equip = fortitude, grief berserker, phoenix vortex,...
smite dmg shown on display = 27xx - 46xx
actual smite dmg = 11xxx - 13xxx

the added dmg is added before every mod/skill that adds %dmg but doesnt show up on display :(

so imo its best to calculate dmg before saying grief is a crappy weapon :)

[Neurofuzzy]

You are saying that Grief is a paladin weapon?

[Dahmer]

nono :p
edited
grief is good for any melee char imo :D
grief kicks botd's *** in value/dmg imo :D

*edit*
i gave smite example since the difference between shown dmg & actual dmg is biggest on a smiter :scratch:

[mcm]

Minimum +damage on Grief is 340. Not sure how you got 256.

Worst possible grief zerker beats best possible ebotd zerk by 11% total damage.

Forget value, grief offers the highest damage one hand melee weapon PERIOD.

[[exile]]

Don't look at the damned Character Screen. It LIES!!!

[lokigodzz]

so what your telling me is dam on sword and char screen are decieving me :clap:
also it 356 dam my bad
ill have to equip it and kill some monsters see how it does :)

hmm can one of you tell me if im right on this calculation

i get 885% dam from zerk and syns right now
+ 73% from sword mastery
+ 300 % from fortuide
+ 256% from str bonus ( 1% for ever 1 str right)
so thats 1514% dam total on a sword that does 387-392( if the 356 combines with min and max)
so that 15.14 x 387=5859
15.14 x 392= 5935
5859+5935=11794/2= 5897 avg dam ?


this the right calculation ?

[Sword & Shield]

nono :p
edited
grief is good for any melee char imo :D
grief kicks botd's *** in value/dmg imo :DNope,

Greif PB=pwnzors
Greif Zerk=suxzors

Range: PB|<|Zerk
Style: PB|<|Zerk

Dont get it confused, BOTD still pwnzors all :)

[ToThePoint]

Almost right. Using your numbers, that 1514% is the enhanced damage so its added to the base. Or you can just add '1' to the ed modifier.
so its 16.14*it giving 6286 average.

Negatory,

Greif PB=pwnzors
Greif Zerk=suxzors

Range: PB|<|Zerk
Style: PB|<|Zerk

Dont get it confused, BOTD still pwnzors all :)'negatory'
Grief zerker can reach last WW bp and is more damaging than botd.

[Sword & Shield]

Almost right. Using your numbers, that 1514% is the enhanced damage so its added to the base. Or you can just add '1' to the ed modifier.
so its 16.14*it giving 6286 average.

'negatory'
Grief zerker can reach last WW bp and is more damaging than botd.
Greif has a better average,
But BOTD has a beter maximum damage :teeth:

[kakarot]

Greif has a better average,
But BOTD has a beter maximum damage :teeth:

exactly, and average > max!

kakaroto

[ToThePoint]

Greif has a better average,
But BOTD has a beter maximum damage :teeth::xrollseye
grief has better min damage !!! sheesh.

[Dahmer]

Nope,

Greif PB=pwnzors
Greif Zerk=suxzors

Range: PB|<|Zerk
Style: PB|<|Zerk

Dont get it confused, BOTD still pwnzors all :)using "words" like pwnzors & suxzors make me question your judgement :p

just for the simple fact that you'll do more dmg with grief ba & the more ed on equip u got the better the grief will turn out to be, i even kicked *** (in tcp/ip games i hosted to test) with a grief flamberge

btw, you're saying grief pb is better than grief ba? if you only play with zealots i might agree but allround grief ba is better, higher range makes u win most of your duels, doesnt matter if u got insane life/dmg, if you duel somebody with higher range & experience you'll loose

1st thing i'm gonna do after reset is find me a 35ias grief ba & try it out on my barb & smiter since they can both use it & get max fpa & range 3

ps : explain why grief pb is better than grief ba plz :p

[Sword & Shield]

using "words" like pwnzors & suxzors make me question your judgement :p

just for the simple fact that you'll do more dmg with grief ba & the more ed on equip u got the better the grief will turn out to be, i even kicked *** (in tcp/ip games (#) i hosted to test) with a grief flamberge

btw, you're saying grief pb is better than grief ba? if you only play with zealots i might agree but allround grief ba is better, higher range makes u win most of your duels, doesnt matter if u got insane life/dmg, if you duel somebody with higher range & experience you'll loose

1st thing i'm gonna do after reset is find me a 35ias grief ba & try it out on my barb & smiter since they can both use it & get max fpa & range 3

ps : explain why grief pb is better than grief ba plz :p

Wait, i im confused,
When it says: Damage +340-400

Does it mean it adds +340 to minimum and 400 to maximum?

Or

Does it mean it adds a range between 340-400 damage to both Mini & max which is like ED On a botd that varies?

[Liessa Wyrmbane]

Wait, i im confused,
When it says: Damage +340-400

Does it mean it adds +340 to minimum and 400 to maximum?

Or

Does it mean it adds a range between 340-400 damage to both Mini & max which is like ED On a botd that varies?
The latter...

[Dahmer]

the added dmg on grief adds to min & max

example :
base ba dmg = 27-71
added dmg on grief = 340
minimum ba dmg = 27 + 340 = 367
maximum ba dmg = 71 + 340 = 411
average dmg = (367+411)/2 = 389

& as mentioned above a perfect eth superior botd ba will do 365 dmg

*waves byebye to all duped vex' & zod's in botd ba's*

[Sword & Shield]

The latter...
oooooh...

And nvm the pwnzors ><, i was tired x___X

[Neurofuzzy]

Are you taking the +30 to str from BOTD into account when you make this calculations?

[kakarot]

Are you taking the +30 to str from BOTD into account when you make this calculations?

if you mean in calculation of the final dmg output then yeah, dahmar included everything of any relevance, used perf stats etc. so hear what he says, he's rarely wrong :thumbsup:

(dahmer dear, this don't mean i won't own your *** if i ever get the necesary gear :teeth: ) :xrollseye

kakaroto

[Neurofuzzy]

if you mean in calculation of the final dmg output then yeah, dahmar included everything of any relevance, used perf stats etc. so hear what he says, he's rarely wrong :thumbsup:

(dahmer dear, this don't mean i won't own your *** if i ever get the necesary gear :teeth: ) :xrollseye

kakaroto

BOTD should bring 30% ED at the final final calculation, due to +30 str (at least for a barb).

[kakarot]

BOTD should bring 30% ED at the final final calculation, due to +30 str (at least for a barb).

are you sure?

1) 1 str doesn't give 1% ed on all weapons
2) grief ba has str req of 138, while botd ba has (rounded) 111 so thats 27 str more to use grief
3) final dmg calculations give the results that grief is much more powerfull than perf(!) ebotd ba, period! i'f you don't trust dahmer, test it yourself mate :lol: .

kakaroto

[ToThePoint]

are you sure?

1) 1 str doesn't give 1% ed on all weapons
2) grief ba has str req of 138, while botd ba has (rounded) 111 so thats 27 str more to use grief
3) final dmg calculations give the results that grief is much more powerfull than perf(!) ebotd ba, period! i'f you don't trust dahmer, test it yourself mate :lol: .

kakaroto1) 1 str gives 1% for all 1 hand weapons which can have a grief vs botd argument.
2) Just because the axe needs less strength it doesn't mean you cant pump strength. If you pump str whilst maintaining griefs life you get about 75% ed spare from botd (shield user) (botd is 101str btw noone uses noneth :) )
3) Even though point 1+2 are flawed the ultimate result is that the ed boost doesn't compensate for the large difference in base damage thus for a given life point grief > botd.
Yuo dont need to test - just use common sense and be able to count :)

[Mr_Grimm]

botd is better since it gives dual leech and 30 to ALL stats and therefore gives you greater flexibility on other items. the all round benefits of botd outweigh the minimal damage advantage that grief has overall (my opinion).

[kakarot]

1) 1 str gives 1% for all 1 hand weapons which can have a grief vs botd argument.
2) Just because the axe needs less strength it doesn't mean you cant pump strength. If you pump str whilst maintaining griefs life you get about 75% ed spare from botd (shield user) (botd is 101str btw noone uses noneth :) )
3) Even though point 1+2 are flawed the ultimate result is that the ed boost doesn't compensate for the large difference in base damage thus for a given life point grief > botd.
Yuo dont need to test - just use common sense and be able to count :)

- you're right(sry, alcoholico vulgaris was talking)
- i was wrong on str req for botd(still woosy from NY eve :) ), but no dueler will put more to str than necesary to equip his gear(well atleast no one that wants to win any duels)

Guess we'll have to wait for reset to prove that grief > botd, ey Mr.grimm?

:thumbsup: kakaroto

[ToThePoint]

- you're right(sry, alcoholico vulgaris was talking)
- i was wrong on str req for botd(still woosy from NY eve :) ), but no dueler will put more to str than necesary to equip his gear(well atleast no one that wants to win any duels)

Guess we'll have to wait for reset to prove that grief > botd, ey Mr.grimm?

:thumbsup: kakaroto
yes i know not many will pump str but they can, and for comparing like with like the best reference point is imo equal life.
REally it depends on how many hits to kill etc with each setup as botd gives more life it may help you kill better due to extra time from extra life.
However, for sheer damage grief is alot better.

[Inuyasha]

I'm just wondering one last thing. I know that I shouldn't be questioning your judgement (again :D), but I have to ask one last thing. Did you consider that BotDs are Ethereal? If grief somehow gives indestructable as well, and therefore nullifies this entire point, please tell me (I don't mind looking like an idiot in front of hundreds of people. Merely daily practice :D)

Also, what conditions did you check the damage at? Did you do it in a way that could possibly have a bias towards Grief (Ie, Str pumping for extra ED on the higher base damage, something that most duelers don't do)

Thanks for your time.
-Daman

[kakarot]

I'm just wondering one last thing. I know that I shouldn't be questioning your judgement (again :D), but I have to ask one last thing. Did you consider that BotDs are Ethereal? If grief somehow gives indestructable as well, and therefore nullifies this entire point, please tell me (I don't mind looking like an idiot in front of hundreds of people. Merely daily practice :D)

Also, what conditions did you check the damage at? Did you do it in a way that could possibly have a bias towards Grief (Ie, Str pumping for extra ED on the higher base damage, something that most duelers don't do)

Thanks for your time.
-Daman

np in your asking mate, but i won't make a mistake of fighting another one's battles(dahm is a big boy) twice! all i have to say: i'll see you in Blood Moore after reset!

kakaroto

[Perfect_11.]

if this is pure pvp then i understand... but wouldnt whirlwinding with something like a NON-Indestructable beserker axe be a bad thing. Unless you dont like killing monsters (i love killing monsters!) the grief is good, but unless its in a PB, you have a chance to screw up the ias, and you have a weapon that u have to repair every 2 seconds. Not to mention it loses the cool ethereal effect, u lose the awesome leech (PvM speak here), 30 all stats, and the ever so helpful poison nova (hehe J/k). Also if u use a PB to avoid this mishaps then u end up with range 2. Otherwise, can someone direct me to a way to make a bada** grief sword? (I would like to make one and i'm sword baba)

[gmoura]

if this is pure pvp then i understand... but wouldnt whirlwinding with something like a NON-Indestructable beserker axe be a bad thing. Unless you dont like killing monsters (i love killing monsters!) the grief is good, but unless its in a PB, you have a chance to screw up the ias, and you have a weapon that u have to repair every 2 seconds. Not to mention it loses the cool ethereal effect, u lose the awesome leech (PvM speak here), 30 all stats, and the ever so helpful poison nova (hehe J/k). Also if u use a PB to avoid this mishaps then u end up with range 2. Otherwise, can someone direct me to a way to make a bada** grief sword? (I would like to make one and i'm sword baba)

i'm currently using 2x Grief PB's on my Frenzy barb and he if my Favourite Character and he kills SO quick in Act5 hell its not funny!!

BUT: if you're gonna use a Grief on a WW Barb, consider making it in a Flamberge or a Zweihander!! i Personally would make it in a Flameberge, casue the Requirements are incredibly Low !!!!

Both have a base speed of -10 and a range of 3 !!!

Trust me, you wont be disappointed !!

[Chinesef00d]

i'm currently using 2x Grief PB's on my Frenzy barb and he if my Favourite Character and he kills SO quick in Act5 hell its not funny!!

BUT: if you're gonna use a Grief on a WW Barb, consider making it in a Flamberge or a Zweihander!! i Personally would make it in a Flameberge, casue the Requirements are incredibly Low !!!!

Both have a base speed of -10 and a range of 3 !!!

Trust me, you wont be disappointed !!


wait so average damage on a weapon isnt accounted with grief?!?! i found a 5OS Zweihander the other day and was thinking about making grief but when i looked at the average damage i tossed it away

[Herald of Doom]

wait so average damage on a weapon isnt accounted with grief?!?! i found a 5OS Zweihander the other day and was thinking about making grief but when i looked at the average damage i tossed it away
The thing with grief is that it doesnt multiply the base damage of the weapon, but adds straight dmg to it.

example:
BA dmg(0) 24-71 >< Flamberge (-10) 9-15 >< Zweihander (-10) 19-35

47 average dmg ,12 average for flamberge, 27 average for zweihander

So by putting it in a flamberge you lose only 35 dmg, while having very low req and always hitting the final breakpoint. I'd say Zweihander is perfect weapon for a Grief for barb.

HoD

[gmoura]

The thing with grief is that it doesnt multiply the base damage of the weapon, but adds straight dmg to it.

example:
BA dmg(0) 24-71 >< Flamberge (-10) 9-15 >< Zweihander (-10) 19-35

47 average dmg ,12 average for flamberge, 27 average for zweihander

So by putting it in a flamberge you lose only 35 dmg, while having very low req and always hitting the final breakpoint. I'd say Zweihander is perfect weapon for a Grief for barb.

HoD

i Agree with this! Zweihander is awsome to make Grief in! enough speed, good range and the requirements are not to high.
Just say you roll a perfect 400 grief:

Zweihander 19-35: damges = 419 - 435 (average damage of 427)
Flameberge 9-15: damage = 409 - 415 (average damage of 412)
Phase Blade 31-35: damage = 431 - 435 (average damage of 433)
Zerker axe 24-71: damage = 424 - 471 (average damage of 447)

After looking at these you can see that the average damage is not much different! the first 3 ensure that you reach that -35 speed you need, while the zerker does not and only offers 14 to 35 more average damage!

IMO, it is stupid to make it in a zerker, cause if you roll a low one, you've waisted your runes......

for WW barb using Shield, id go the Zweihander..
for WW barb duel weilding, id go the Flameberge..
Frenzy Barb, definatly the Phase Blades, cause range is not a biggy and the average damage is alittle higher, never need to repair them and
they look SO cool !!!!!!!!!!!

[Phyrexial]

for WW barb using Shield, id go the Zweihander..
for WW barb duel weilding, id go the Flameberge..

Why is that? They both have the same range/speed and as you said base damage doesn't matter a whole lot. The only difference I see is the reqs.

[gmoura]

Why is that? They both have the same range/speed and as you said base damage doesn't matter a whole lot. The only difference I see is the reqs.

Well it doesn't make TOO much of a difference, i was just assuming that if a barb was gonna use a shield, it would most probably be a Storm Shield, and in that case, you'll need to have at lease 156 Strength.... so the Zeiwhander could be easily equiped... and that tiny bit of damage > Flameberge could be utilised, but just say a duel weilder only needed enough strength for his armour, well then maybe 156 stregth would not be reached!

come to think of it though, most ppl will use an Arreats so stregnth will be at around at lease 140......

you're right, it doesn't make too much of a difference!!