Golems

[Gaza0469]

I have only used a BoneMancer before, I am going to create my very first Zookeeper.

The aim is to have in Hell 5-10 revives available whom I will ressurect every 2-3 minutes, 6-8 mages to help out the revives, 1x Iron Golem to act as tank , and an Act 2 NM Offensive Merc to amp up their damages. In the background I will be casting Iron Maiden to help troops.

I want to build a super golem, and was thinking that Iron Golems sound the best.

(1) Do Golems go with you if you exit a game and make a new game? Or do u have to re-spawn them for each game?

(2) Which Item mods are the most desirable? What are good items to turn into iron golems?

My build will look like this :

20 Skeleton Mastery
3 Raise Skeleton ( only to help level up early on)
20 Skeleton Mage ( will be using 4-6 mages later on)
5 Sumon Resist
5 Revives (main source of cannon fodder)

10 Iron Maiden

Rest of points in Golem

something like :

20 Iron Golem
15 Golem Mastery
1 in each of Blood, Clay and Fire

Does this sound viable?

Thanx for all help ;)

[Myrakh-2]

(1) Do Golems go with you if you exit a game and make a new game?

Iron Golem stays, until
- it dies
- you cast another golem
- the game randomly discards it
- you still have a skillpoint in IG

[Gaza0469]

Iron Golem stays, until
- it dies
- you cast another golem
- the game randomly discards it
- you still have a skillpoint in IG


Thanks Myrakh.

sorry, but what is IG?

So the general rule is they stay till they die, however battlenet can get rid of them occassionally - its just that I dont want to waste elite items if they die easily, or if they didnt goto the next game.

Has anyone maxed out a golem? are they worth spending points in ?

[Myrakh-2]

sorry, but what is IG?

Iron Golem.


Has anyone maxed out a golem? are they worth spending points in ?

I say 1 point in clay to use and iron as a prereq for revives only, but that's me.

IG isn't the greatest uber mega ultra hyper killer skill, but I believe there are a few people using it. So I guess "viable" is more a matter of how much resources/time/skillpoints you are willing to sacifice for a themed build like that.

[Kendu]

With this sort of build you will be facing an uphill battle. IM (Iron Maiden) is not nearly as effective for necros as it is for oblivion knights. IG (Iron Golem) is only effective if you pick a good item, but their thorns aura is nearly useless. One good thing about IG is that i think you can make an elemental immune one, but then it owuld not be able to kill. I don't think you can really call this build a zookeeper because that would imply having a zoo of minions which in your case would be 12-19 minions. If you want a challenge then this will certainly be one because you will have trouble killing stuff.

If you want to try a different type of summoning necro, other then skellimancer, then try making a Lord of Mages, or a some kind of hybrid. You could also try a themed elemental build of Poison/Mages, use fire golem and doom merc, and maybe full trang set. That build could be good if you could get your hands on the new Infinity runeword.

[rickcarson]

If you want to try a different type of summoning necro, other then skellimancer, then try making a Lord of Mages, or a some kind of hybrid. You could also try a themed elemental build of Poison/Mages, use fire golem and doom merc, and maybe full trang set. That build could be good if you could get your hands on the new Infinity runeword.

Well, other than the Iron Maiden and Large dumpage of points into Iron golem, its a pretty standard Lord of Mages.

I wouldn't spend 3 points on skellies, I'd just pay the 3k gold to get a +2 wand instead of the +1 wand you start with. Spend a tiny bit more and you could probably get one with + Amp.

If twinking, use the Infernal set instead.

For a Zookeeper, try dumping massive points into Revive after you have maxed Skeleton Mastery and gotten Magi to 19. Though I like to put a point into Revive at level 30.

So the basic outline at level 30 is Max Skeleton Mastery, one point in all other summons except Fire Golem. Use whatever random curse your best gear gives you (eg Confusion, Decrepify, Amp or whatever).

Spare points into Mages. Once you hit level 30, alternate between Mages and Revives. Still using whatever random curse your gear gives you.

Your Iron Golem will be better than your Gumby (one point in each) so you will use IG most of the time, but against bosses he'll die, so make sure you have Gumby hotkeyed. If you can get about +6-7 to summons then Gumby starts getting as good as Iron Golem, so switch over.

If you miss the slow effect, make the Iron Golem out of a cheap weapon with +1-2 cold damage. :D

In normal and nightmare Mages beat everything except Bosses and other area attack elemental damage types. Gumby + crushing blow Revives beats bosses.

You will have a hard time getting started in Hell, so its good if you have other people to generate the first corpses. Of course, if you're playing with other people, they won't be happy with you if you have 40+ minions running around all over the place.

[Dazuni]

The way that iron golem works is that as if they are holding the item that spawn them. Effectively, in 1.10, this means that you can make Iron golem out of aura providing item and they will give you, and other minion the aura.

Yes the cost of for such is usually high, and the death rate of iron golem usually means that you will not be able to have such golem with you all the time. So lets just sees it as a extra aura for necromancer. That is until you see that umber cheap rune word that gives you meditation. I think it is called insight. Ral tir tal sol.

Now on to the issue of keeping the golem alive, I think there was a way to make iron golem umber in 1.09, that is to create it in 8 players game, using good armour and have a druid oak sages on, this is make iron golem with x000000000 hit points. I am not sure if this trick would still work in 1.10, but I will let someone else take over on this.

Other wise you just have to keep iron out of the way. bone wall is a skill that you can block it from the mob, but keeping it out of harm usually take even more effort.

[Pherdnut]

To sum up. None of the Golems are good killers, although I imagine an IG with crushing blow and a high attack bonus might be kinda helpful for taking down bosses but mods like that can be expensive. People say they aren't very survivable either, but if you invest a few points in Golem Mastery it does add a lot to their health and plus skill items will continue to upgrade its health whereas the synergies won't. The best deal is probably still 1 point in clay and golem mastery though. Gumby dies sometimes but he is easy to ressumon and remains an effective tank with minimal point investment as long as you're getting a few plus skills in your summons.

Using Insight for an IG sounds cool. However, I think for most summoners a more ideal combo would be to have a Prayer Merc with it since this will both heal your army with prayer and the synergy bonus to meditation while recharging your mana at an astounding rate, allowing you to CE and Revive at your leisure. What you might want to try is putting a few more points into mastery for more HP and whichever golem synergy adds to attack (Clay, I think) so you can use cheap weapon runewords like Black to give your IG some boss hitting power. You might want some extra skellies for that build though, since you will be losing a fair bit of physical power from using a caster-oriented polearm for your Merc.

[Gaza0469]

Thanks to everyone for their feedback.

Gumby - thats the clay golem isnt it?

I might just put 10 points there, and 10 in mastery.

I will use the remaining points to amp up my revives + curses.



So no one has ever made an effective golem? They all die easily?

Thats pretty crappy.

LOL

The aim was to have a tank golem that could get the first few bodies, then I could just revive the bodies and wouldnt need the golem again.

[rickcarson]

Thanks to everyone for their feedback.

Gumby - thats the clay golem isnt it?

Correct.



I might just put 10 points there, and 10 in mastery.


Better would be 12 in Gumby, 8 in Mastery



So no one has ever made an effective golem? They all die easily?


Oh no, its quite easy to make a practically unkillable Golem.



Thats pretty crappy.


They are crappy, but not because of their defense. Gumby is very very good against the Prime Evils. But as a distraction. You and your merc actually have to provide the killing power.



The aim was to have a tank golem that could get the first few bodies,


Tank, yes, absolutely.

... get the first few bodies... umm... maybe not.



then I could just revive the bodies and wouldnt need the golem again.

I like the Golem because its one more thing the monsters have to get through to get to me.

Your plan with the Revives is good, but you need to realise that every now and again (say, once every 15-30 minutes) they will all disappear all at once.... even if you didn't summon them all at the same time.

So while Revives are 'tëh übër', you need to have a backup plan for creating bodies in place all the time.

[Gaza0469]

Correct.



Better would be 12 in Gumby, 8 in Mastery.

Will he be very strong at this level? or should I stick more points in Gumby?







... get the first few bodies... umm... maybe not..

So just rely on Gumby and Merc to get bodies?





Your plan with the Revives is good, but you need to realise that every now and again (say, once every 15-30 minutes) they will all disappear all at once.... even if you didn't summon them all at the same time.

Is that like a bug? so then you need to re-amass a new army.

I am now not sure wheter to go for the skeleton army, or the skeleton mage army, I just thought the mages would do more damage and be more fun... wot do you guys reckon?


So while Revives are 'tëh übër', you need to have a backup plan for creating bodies in place all the time

What do you reccomend for that? giving your necromancer a back up attack like bone spirit? although no doubt that wont do sufficient damage without synergies. Or just use a good merc?

[Dennis_KoreanGuy]

I think a clay golem would be a better tanker.

- Dennis :xflash:

[rickcarson]

To sum up. None of the Golems are good killers, although I imagine an IG with crushing blow and a high attack bonus might be kinda helpful for taking down bosses but mods like that can be expensive.


Amn + Tir. Or, if you want open Wounds instead (if you're a very high level) then I think Tir + El. Not hugely expensive.



The best deal is probably still 1 point in clay and golem mastery though.


Only if you have a bunch of +skills (say 7 or more). Less than that and a 1/1 Iron Golem is better than a 1/1 Gumby.



Gumby dies sometimes but he is easy to ressumon and remains an effective tank with minimal point investment as long as you're getting a few plus skills in your summons.


A level 1/1 Gumby with few or no +skills is very quickly overpowered by the monsters. By late Normal he will hardly be worth the effort except in emergencies.

However if you can get him to 7/1 or more then he's much much better than 1/1. I've seen quite a few +3 Gumby heads, and shopping for a +3 Gumby wand isn't too hard (nice if it has extra mastery and/or +summons!) and is quite cheap.

You can put them on your weapon switch, and prebuff.



Using Insight for an IG sounds cool. However, I think for most summoners a more ideal combo would be to have a Prayer Merc with it since this will both heal your army


But why would I care about healing the army? If the army needs healing then it means you haven't concentrated enough points in the sumons. I don't care if a skellie dies every 30-60 seconds, I hardly notice it, I just make another one and get on with it. And as a LoM my mages are almost never in combat anyway, so they don't need healing. And as a Zoomancer my Revives are darn near unkillable anyway, and why bother healing something that will be gone in another couple of minutes?

I do like the concpet of the Meditation + Prayer combo, but its not one that a skellimancer needs unless they've done something badly wrong with their build.



with prayer and the synergy bonus to meditation while recharging your mana at an astounding rate, allowing you to CE and Revive at your leisure. What you might want to try is putting a few more points into mastery for more HP and whichever golem synergy adds to attack (Clay, I think) so you can use cheap weapon runewords like Black to give your IG some boss hitting power. You might want some extra skellies for that build though, since you will be losing a fair bit of physical power from using a caster-oriented polearm for your Merc.

NB: according to the Arreat Summit, Golem Mastery also adds attack rating. According to a certain skill calculator which will remain nameless (*cough* chippydip *cough*) a 13/12 Gumby/Mastery has an Attack rating of 600.

Actually, while I'm there, lets look at a 20/20/20 Blood Golem (the last 20 is Fire Golem, for the damage synergy).

creates a golem that shares with you the life
it steals and damage it receives

Life: 1005
Life: 1940 (N)
Life: 3185 (H)
5: Attack: 580
5: Defense: 155

Current Skill Level: 20
Converts 138 percent damage to life
Damage: 53-141
Damage: 79-203 (N)
Damage: 88-238 (H)
Mana Cost: 101

Okay, so it does 163 average damage in Hell. Big whoopy do. Oh wait, lets Amp that, to 326 and then multiply by 1.38 to get how much life it will steal... thats 450, of which you get 30% = 135, and it gets the rest.

Thats some impressive leech. Somehow last night I calculated it as 507 leeched. The calculator has the 6% bonus damage from Fire synergy much lower though , I would calculate it as 167-453 damage in Hell (before Amp)

After Amp it should be something like 620 average damage, with 800+ leeched.

Now lets add some +skills... how about 10? Now the calculator tells me pre-synergy damage is: Damage: 111-301 (H). Multiply by 2.2 for synergy, and double it again for amp to get 906 average damage, with 1250 leeched, of which you get 375, plus any overflow from the Blood Golem (which there would be if it had more than 101 hit points at the time).

Items required: obviously anything to make the Golem hit faster (Fanaticism and Might) and harder (Concentration) and/or more accurately (Blessed Aim and Conviction).

You might be able to get a Blood Golem hitting for around about 5k average damage (after amp), leeching 7k for you each time....

... shame you couldn't give it whirlwind ...

:D

[Myrakh-2]

Will he be very strong at this level? or should I stick more points in Gumby?

My Skelemancer has 1 point in all the golem skills except fire. +12 from gear on top of that, though. No problems at all.


So just rely on Gumby and Merc to get bodies?

Again, *my* Skelemancer uses the merc to create initial bodies. If it seems to tough (larger games, later acts)... A1 should always have some monsters left.

Might be more complicated with Revives (I don't use them a lot) since monster TYPE matters there.


Is that like a bug? so then you need to re-amass a new army.

Minions randomly disappear for no reason. Revives are very susceptible to that; the merc will just freeze instead. Never seen things disappear all at once, though.


I am now not sure wheter to go for the skeleton army, or the skeleton mage army, I just thought the mages would do more damage and be more fun... wot do you guys reckon?

Skeleton warriors do a lot more damage and are considerably better tanks. I use both, though (pure Skelemancer (http://diablo.cable.nu)... so I had enough skillpoints). Thing is that amplify damage is more efficient than lower resist, and you can get Might from a merc, but no conviction unless you use expensive runewords. So you can help the warriors a lot better.

EDIT: if you want to go hybrid, and you want an "easy killer", ditch the mages. A mage build ("lord of mages") is more of a themed build, sacrificing efficiency for being different. Note. however. that without mages and without Trangs you have no source of elemental damage except corpse explosion, which is not reliable; with trangs you only have fire damage as reliable source.

[Gaza0469]

My Skelemancer has 1 point in all the golem skills except fire. +12 from gear on top of that, though. No problems at all.



Again, *my* Skelemancer uses the merc to create initial bodies. If it seems to tough (larger games, later acts)... A1 should always have some monsters left.

Might be more complicated with Revives (I don't use them a lot) since monster TYPE matters there.



Minions randomly disappear for no reason. Revives are very susceptible to that; the merc will just freeze instead. Never seen things disappear all at once, though.



Skeleton warriors do a lot more damage and are considerably better tanks. I use both, though (pure Skelemancer (http://diablo.cable.nu)... so I had enough skillpoints). Thing is that amplify damage is more efficient than lower resist, and you can get Might from a merc, but no conviction unless you use expensive runewords. So you can help the warriors a lot better.

EDIT: if you want to go hybrid, and you want an "easy killer", ditch the mages. A mage build ("lord of mages") is more of a themed build, sacrificing efficiency for being different. Note. however. that without mages and without Trangs you have no source of elemental damage except corpse explosion, which is not reliable; with trangs you only have fire damage as reliable source.


Thankyou for all your feedback.

I think I will go the skeleton warrior route - with no revives and mages.

20 Raise Skelton
20 Skeleton Mastery
20 Raise Mage

20 Points for Gumby (12 in Gumby, and 8 in mastery)

5 points in Summon Resist.

10 in Amplify damage

5 in pre-reqs and other stuff.

Does this sound viable?

Target will be to use max skeletons (8) and have 2-3 mages for elemental damage + Gumby as a tank and to slow down bosses + Merc with Reapers Toll.

Might merc is the best?

is he NM Offence Merc?

or do u get them from Normal/Hell?

Thanx again ;)

[rickcarson]

Will he be very strong at this level? or should I stick more points in Gumby?

At 12/8 he will only be doing about 30 to 40 average damage, but in Hell he will have over 10.5k hit points. By comparison the 10/10 you proposed would have about 2-3 less average damage, and about 50 fewer hitpoints, but would cost 6 less mana to cast.

So there's not much in it. Hardly worth mentioning really. :D



So just rely on Gumby and Merc to get bodies?


Pretend that Gumby is the Amazon skill decoy, and you will understand his killing power.

He helps the Merc, but only as a 'damage magnet'.



> {Revives all disappearing at once}
Is that like a bug? so then you need to re-amass a new army.


I don't really care whether its a bug or not. I assume that it is a bug. It happens fairly regularly, more so if you try to run through areas without doing total clears, or if the area has lots of bumpy walls and corners.

I wouldn't count on it being fixed anytime soon.



I am now not sure wheter to go for the skeleton army, or the skeleton mage army, I just thought the mages would do more damage and be more fun... wot do you guys reckon?


Mages are better in Normal and Nightmare, *if* you don't have a lot of +skills.

In Hell with everything single or double immune, Mages are worse than Skeletons/Revives.

I recommend playing a couple of Skellimancers before playing a Lord of Mages.

Think of it like a Fighting game (eg tekken) the Skellimancer is the all fast, all hard hitting smackdown character. Whereas the Lord of mages is a weaker character, but with some cheesy combos that are good at low levels. It takes more skill to beat the game with the LoM, so consider it an 'advanced' strategy.

There are other kinds of advanced strategies, eg Commandomancer (aka Spendomancer) for those with more runes than they know what to do with etc.

The only advantage a LoM has over the others in Hell is that your level and attack rating don't matter, so you can go straight into Hell at approx level 60, whereas a Skellimancer will generally get minced below 70.

So you could in theory start doing Pit Runs a little bit earlier with the LoM.

Not sure about timing though, it might take longer to play through norm + nightmare with the LoM?

Oh, and if you're Hardcore, a LoM is slightly safer than a Skellimancer (if you use the right cheesy combos, and play at the correct pace).



What do you reccomend for that? giving your necromancer a back up attack like bone spirit? although no doubt that wont do sufficient damage without synergies. Or just use a good merc?

Well, I've always disliked Bone Spirit.
I'd prefer Bone Spear, maybe Poison Nova. Taking an attack skill + 20ish in synergies isn't going to leave you many points to spare... 80 points in your 4 main skills, plus Revives plus Lower Resist is roughly 95 points, so if you entered Hell at level 60 or 70 you'd still be way off.

You can pick up some really good defenses for 20 points or less, however most of the curses will clash with Lower Resist, so you could ditch LR and focus on defensive cursing (eg Dim Vision). You will kill slower, but more safely, and your Merc won't get ganged up on and die all the time (or you could use an Act 1 Merc, so the monsters don't even fight back)

No one defense covers all the bases though, so you might want two, or alternately a good defense plus a decent Corpse Explosion.

[Myrakh-2]

Essentially, any build with maxed warriors is "automatically" viable. Note that in order to work well, you absolutely DO need some +skills in your summoning tree.

Not sure whether 2-3 mages are any good in handling hard physical immunes, though. Personally, I would say you are spending too many points in clay/mastery, but that might just be me... I tend to try to push people towards my standard build, so beware. Consider my brabbling as food for your own thinking.

5 points in Summon Resist is a BAD idea. You are planning your char as if you had NO +skills in your summoning tree. Summon Resist is "perfectly ok" with just one point and a few +skills --- diminishing returns do that.

A summoner-style necro absolutely needs +skills in the summoning tree at least (yes I know, you can play through the game without...), so you might just as well assume you have some. Won't be fun without.

I'm not seeing any corpse explosion in your build, which makes 10 points in amp damage a bit strange. People tend to stick to 1 point with amp and a few +skills, unless they want to increase the radius to match their CE radius (I don't, though... casting amp a few times isn't a problem).

Talking about "missing" skills... Decrepify has its uses, and a lot of people like Dim Vision. I hardly ever use it, but that's another gear issue --- Dim Vision can shut down ranged attackers, which includes Black Souls. There is still a problem with casting a low-level DV on them before they fry you, though. With maxed resists and 26(mf)/28(non-mf) minions around, the few random hits from Black Souls aren't anything I'm worried about, though --- it's not like they would target me.

In general, I wouldn't rule out a "weak" hybrid --- skeletons as usual, and just bonespirit maxed. According to Arreat summit this will give around 400 damage per spirit; Marrowwalks-enhanced adds another 198% on top of that, giving you around 1200 damage per spirit, which sounds ok to handle the hard immunes, or help with highly resistance monsters (based on my experiences with the trang firewalls).
No chilling from cold mages and no prevent monster heal from poison mages, though, although I can probably get some poison mages on an as-needed basis.

This is just something I would try; I've never done it so far. Might do it one day (my standard build, mages replaced by spirit), although it might feel lonely with half my minions gone

Also, don't completely rule out revives. Revives profit from Skeleton Mastery; adding points to Revive only increases their number. Therefore, spending the 3 points to get there (Iron golem, Blood golem and Revive) isn't a bad investment, as your +skills will increase the number and your Skeleton Mastery is maxed anyway. Just because *I* don't use them every day doesn't mean I never use them :-)

As for the merc --- Might (Nightmare Offensive) is the only "real" option for anyone deploying skeleton warriors. Warriors don't do a lot of damage on their own; the skill is really designed to work with amplify damage and the might aura from the merc to skyrocket its effectiveness. The other mercs aren't even close.

Defiance is useless since it's a % boost, and %-boosting a low value doesn't skyrocket it. Similar reasoning goes for blessed aim. In both cases, rely on level difference --- warriors inherit YOUR level for the to-hit calculations, so once you've reached clvl 86 the level difference between you and the monsters almost always works in your favor (regular monsters are mlvl 85 and below; champs will max out at 87, bosses at 88).

Prayer sounds good in theory as well --- but skeleton warriors seem to have a huge amount of hitpoints to start with, and they heal pretty fast even without prayer. I tend to think that if one dies, prayer wouldn't really have prevented it --- with a decent number of +skills, warriors are killed by things like "super strong, spectral hit, extra fast and fanatism aura boss". My warriors hardly ever die, and it's not a problem to replace one. Unless we are talking about Iron Maiden, of course... that can be an annoyance.

Holy freeze I don't like on a Skelemancer either. First of all, it doesn't boost damage like might does. Also, it makes a lot more corpses shatter, which is an annoyance if you wanted to corpse explode them. I like to say "a slow monster is fine, but a dead monster is even better" --- which is why I just want to kill them as fast as possible.

[Gaza0469]

[QUOTE=Myrakh-2]Essentially, any build with maxed warriors is "automatically" viable. Note that in order to work well, you absolutely DO need some +skills in your summoning tree.

QUOTE]


thanx for the huge feedback.

Can you please post a link to your build guide Myrakh?

after that I am now going for the bone warrior army with CE + amplify damage with a weaker Gumby (5 points gumby , 5 points mastery) and only 1 point in Summon resist.

[Wambat]

One of the reasons I don’t like to max both skellies and mages is that they benefit from different curses, tactics and equipment. I see it as best to go with one or the other, and just use the few “other” minions you get from +skills as a bonus. In terms of hybrids I see the poison/summon as naturally lending itself to mages, and the spear/summon to skellies.

As far as your gelom is concerned: Gumby’s popularity stems from the fact that you don’t have to put more than 1 point into him and GM to make him a great asset in hell. For gumby users, as long as he can survive a half dozen hits he is golden since he will be recast for positioning in a few seconds anyway. The place you will have to recast him allot will be with act bosses, and a pure summoners will be happy to have something to do anyway. If taking the time to recast gumby around act bosses is too much of an inconvenience for you; likely more of a problem for hybrid builds who don’t want their attacks interrupted; put your points into GM and leave your +skills to get your diminishing returns CG skill up to par; this way, if you ever decide to go with an endgame IG he will be much stronger.

IG: IGs are particularly ineffective in hell. I am quite fond of using cheap unique and set items to make IGs in norm and nm baal runs. IK mauls and other weapons with CB or slow enemy mod are pretty easy to come by. I find this useful because it is one less thing to summon in between baal runs, this way I am not lagging behind the group. Also, the IG is naturally immune to poison, so he won’t die to the annoying poison attack from the mummies in baal’s throne room. This is the extent of the IG’s usefulness for 99% of the game.

It has one other use that would not come into play until the very end of the game: once you have put all the points into IG’s synergies that you plan to, and once you have acquired all the +skills that you expect to get, you can make an IG out of an Exile shield that has about +40-45 to resistances. Of course your SR will have to give you between 55 and 60; not hard with +skills; and this will give you an elemental immune IG which will provide your army with ~+200% to defense. As indicated earlier, defiance doesn’t help your skellies all that much, but it does help your nec and his merc a great deal, and this is the only IG that you can rely upon to survive in hell; i.e. not waste an expensive item. This will deprive you of your trusty gumby, but, at this stage of the game, your army will be kicking so much butt you won’t even notice.

Getting your first few summons: I am always surprised at the number of people who don’t know this yet; perhaps those in the know want to keep it their little secret. Once you are in act5, and you have rescued Anya, a red portal will open up next to her. Beyond that red portal are a dozen or more corpses laying around; in the game this was done for dramatic effect, after a few seconds they all start reanimating. Well, before they do, you can make 10 or more skellies out of them; depending on how much FCR you have; which is more than enough to get you started, and very handy for baal runs, though there your party members will likely give you enough bodies to play around with.

“But Wambat, I haven’t got to act5 and saved Anya yet.” Bite the bullet and get yourself forge rushed! It really isn’t that big of a sacrifice: one rune drop that is just as likely to be an Eld as a Mal. And you’ll be getting a lot more chances at it once you get yourself into a position to rush others.