Upped Goldstrike vs Windforce

[-Deep-]

I've done some forum searching, but nobody really talks about an upped Goldstrike (GS) in comparison to Windforce (WF). Am I just crazy or do I see too much potential in GS? Not to mention the fact that I just traded for a GS for ONE whole pgem!

GS Stats:
+200-250% Enhanced Damage (varies)
+100-200% Damage To Demons (varies)
+100-200% Damage To Undead (varies)
50% Increased Attack Speed
5% Chance To Cast Level 7 Fist Of Heavens On Striking
Replenish Life +12
+100-150% Bonus To Attack Rating(varies)

WF Stats:
+250% Enhanced Damage
+ (3.125 Per Character Level) 3-309 To Maximum Damage (Based On Character Level)
20% Increased Attack Speed
6-8% Mana Stolen Per Hit (varies)
Heal Stamina Plus 30%
+10 To Strength
+5 To Dexterity
Knockback

- the base ED % on both bows are basically equal.
- the 50% IAS is better on GS vs 20% IAS on WF
- 150% AR boost is gravy on GS

So the only thing to debate is the 3-309 max dam (WF) vs the 200% ed for undead/demons (GS).

For the cost, I really don't see why an upped GS is not more popular. Someone care to enlighten?

Thx in advance,

-Deep

[Rane-]

Up'd Goldstrike is an excellent PvM bow. It's drawbacks are;

- It almost always must be socketed with a Nef as you REALLY want knockback on a zon. This is not too bad as you will probably shael a wf and so GS still has 10ias on it, but just pointing it out.
- FoH procs, whilst VERY cool, do interrupt your attack, delaying it for 1 sec. (To people who think this is server-side only go test it in single player, you will be unable to attack for a full seconed.)
- The damage to Demons&Undead whilst great for PvM, is useless in PvP, making this bow just a bad Up'd Lycanders.
- The cost of Up'ing a GS is pretty close to just getting a WF.
- The +309 max dmg on the WF is a HUGE thing for PvP, making it unquestionably better.

They are the reasons Goldy isn't so popular.

[PukeStar]

Nobody talks about pvp man, this bow kick *** in pvm but with additional sharp charms of course

[ToadKiller]

This really isn't the forum for discussing alternate bows, Pukester. Everyone KNOWS GS sucks. If you were obnoxious enough to show that GS didn't suck...why, we'd all look stupid.

[hamstring21]

an upped GS is a great bow for PvM and should beable to get ur bowazon past hell with little hassle. i won't know if the shael would increase the breakpoint of the GS (i'm not a specialist in that area) but i would recommand your 3x jool or like what Rane mentioned, Nef for KB.

Otherwise, i'm really out of ideas to wat u should socket it with.

As regards to WF and GS and EH (eaglehorn), affordablity wise and EASE of trading for a EH or GS (later up it) is a great idea for a bowazon on budget. I myself use lycanders but GS is massive for PvM. If you ever get a hold on EH, you'll love it more than WF...or that's what my friends told me, when they used WF after getting EH.

[-Deep-]

Thanks for the replies guys. And yes, I was only talking about PvM (sorry I didn't clarify).

So I guess it boils down to cost vs reward. Someone mentioned the cost of upping the GS (lum+pul+pgem) is basically the same as just trading for a WF (mal+). Why get something *almost* as good if you can get the real deal for about the same price? I guess I can agree with that logic.

I just found it weird that nobody gave the upped GS any respect even tho the stats were very, very close to WF.

Thanks again for the input.

-Deep

[Deced]

even tho the stats were very, very close to WF.

They're not close at all. Windforce's damage is a great deal higher, while GoldStrike's Speed is a bit faster.

At level 80, a Windforce has 35-488 dmg, 261.5 avg dmg. It will be even higher, the higher your level.
A perfect Goldstrike up'ed has 35-238 dmg, 136.5 avg dmg.

The difference in damage is huge. You may cite the damage to demons and undead, but you gotta remember that the range on that is +100-200%. That's a huge range, and you're not likely to roll a 250%ED and two high end mods on those two. If you did, that GoldStrike is potentially worth more than a Windforce. I've seen a 250%ED/196%/192% traded for a 28 Maras before (which goes for a few Ists). You can't assume GS will get be that high, and use that to compare against WF, which is always static in damage.

And even assuming a perfect roll (and if that happened, I'd start buying lotto tickets :lol: ), the GS damage on Undead and Demons would come out to:
55-374 dmg, 214.5 avg dmg.

That's STILL lower than what the WF can produce. Windforce comes with Knockback and Mana leech as well, saving you the trouble of crafting hit power gloves.

Now then, the GS is faster than the WF, though. With a Shael and a single 20 IAS item (Andy's Visage, Highlord's, IAS Gloves, whatever), you reach a 9/3 frame attack without even sweating it.

If you wanted 9/2, you could go with Shael in bow (50+20), Socketed M'av (45), Gloves (20), and Ammy (20). That leaves a belt and armor available for non-IAS matters.

The WF on the other hand, has a bit more difficult time getting that kind of break points. It'd have to use a Shael in the bow, a 45 IAS helm, an Ammy, a Glove and then the armor and perhaps belt, depending on what kind of armor you're using.

Of course, in PvM, you may want to stick an Atma's Scarab in for Amp Damage, and sacrifice certain break points. If this is the case, the GS user probably wouldn't go for 8/2 and settle for 9/2. A WF user can meet that point if she uses a Sigons or IK Glove Boot combo, and still have the armor slot free for Lionheart. Or she can use an IAS armor and have more leniency on the belt, helm, gloves and boots.

Basically, WF damage outstrips GSArch, even when its ED, and demon/undead roll perfect, which is a rarity in itself. And for PvM, since both are likely shooting for the 9/2 bp, rather than the 8/2 (because of desire for Amp Damage), the speed isn't that big an issue.

What's more, if what Rane- said is true (never used GS, so don't know) about the delay with FoH, then GS would be slower than the WF even with more IAS.

BTW: Send me a private message on when you're available to complete the trade Deep :xman: We never seem to be on at the same time.

[Rockoon]

I had thought +ED to demons and undead, even when onboard the weapon, was treated like off-weapon enhanced damage. I believe I am correct in believing this but do welcome experimental evidence showing otherwise.

In the case that the demon/undead ED is treated like off-weapon ED, the goldstrike does considerably more damage to undead and demons on a naked zon than a windforce would.

If main +ED on GS is perfect, the 214 average damage would give a range of 428 (100% DEMON ED) to 642 (200% DEMON ED) average demon damage. Considerably more than a windforce (261), even with the worst stats in the other places!

Factoring in other equipment and a high dexterity however and it gets a bit tricky. Off-weapon ED is the same as +DEX for a zon and they simply get added together rather than multiplied, and *THEN* multiply the weapon damage to get final damage.

Seems to me a dexazon with 300 dex, wearing laying of hands, would do approximately the same demon damage with the windforce as he would with a perfect upped goldstrike:

Windforce: 261 + 261 * (3 + 3.5) = 1957.5 demon damage
Perfect Goldstrike: 214 + 214 * (3 + 3.5 + 2) = 2033 demon damage

The more off-weapon ED of any kind, the better the WF looks. Give the dexazon 300 DEX plus 300 off weapon ED (new runeword armor) plus laying of hands:

Windforce: 261 + 261 * (3 + 3 + 3.5) = 2740 demon damage
Perfect Goldstrike: 214 + 214 * (3 + 3 + 3.5 + 2) = 2675 demon damage

Add in bonus damage of attack skill and the gap gets even higher.

So all-in-all, a dexazon with uber gear would still like to use the windforce versus demons while with only so-so gear or low dex would rather have the upped goldstrike (assuming its near perfect)

Undead is another matter..

I think for running the chaos sanctuary (all monsters are demons or undead) you would be hard pressed to find a better *unique* bow than an upped perfect goldstrike, even with perfect gear, as its hard to combine both +ED to demons and +ED to undead.

Still, runewords (old and new) can be quite a bit better than either of these bows so if you are rich.. trade us poor folks perfect goldstrikes and windforces for cheap.. will ya?

:lol:

[Deced]

Windforce: 261 + 261 * (3 + 3.5) = 1957.5 demon damage
Perfect Goldstrike: 214 + 214 * (3 + 3.5 + 2) = 2033 demon damage

Err... Correct me if I'm wrong, but in that damage equation, you're applying the damage to demon/undead on both the base damage and the outside ED multiplier. 214 is the average damage I calculated only if dmg to demon/undead was applied directly to the weapon. You should be calculating off the ED of just the regular 250% ED, which means the base bow damage on GS is 136.5, not 214.5.

Meaning on a 300 dex zon, with Laying of Hands, a perfect GS will do:
136.5 + 136.5 (3 + 3.5 + 2) = 1296.75 demon/undead damage. Which is still considerably lower.

[sasja]

While GSA is an excellent bow, and an upped GSA even better, WF is still the king - and it's all because of the +max dam/lvl. Even with no ias from gear (advantage for the GSA since it has 50% ias), a strafer's damage per second is:

upped GSA: 7151
Windforce: 9568

Still, the GSA is very respectable. It's just not quite a WF.

Assumptions: clevel 85, Strafe level 23, Penetrate level 23, CS at 56%, Vitality at 100 rest into dex except enough strength for bow, monster level 85 with 1616 defense (Pit bone warrior)