Martial arts assasin ideas needed

[Sip]

Well I've managed to somehow get Six +1 martial arts grand charms and some pretty sweet gloves (20% ias/+3 martial arts) and i was wondering what would make an awesome martial arts assasin that is also very effective.

I was thinking some kind of Kicker/claw hybrid, but I'm not quite sure. An assasin that can take down dclone would be nice...but also have some mass-killing abilities. Gear isnt really a problem for me...Just as long as the runes or worth of the items are not above vex, I can probably get it.

I'm not really sure what Claw I'd like to use. Upgraded 200% bartucs could be nice...Or maybe a 300%+ ed godly rare. Dragon talon would probably be an easy 20 synergyless points to get a kickskill, but again...I'm sort of in the dark.

Has anyone here Tried any claw assasins using stuff like phoenix strike or any of those other ones (Fof, ice, lit, tiger strike)? If I have level 40+ martial arts skills...what is the best way to utilize them?

Just looking at the martial arts skills on the arreat summit, I thought that Claws of thunder/phoenix strike (2 charges) could be a possibility. Also blades of ice/phoenix strike (3 charges) could be do-able.

I dont know...I basically need someone who has done this before.


just some more q's and ideas:
-If i decided to do blades of ice+phoenix strike (3 charges), would nightwing be a good choice for a helm?
-What is "chaos ice bolt" is it something like the sorcs cold orb?
-Will facets help my damage (the + and - ) ?
-If I 3 charge a skill (blades of ice for instance) will i get the bonuses or all 3 charges, or just the 3rd one?

[PhatTrumpet]

From what I understand, Blades of Ice does crappy damage. Claws of Thunder synergy gives Pheonix Strike really nice damage, and Fists of Fire synergy gives PS decent damage made even better by the fact that you can spam those Meteors like crazy. So if you go the elemental route you'd be best maxing PS, CoT, and FoF.

After that you could max DTalon and put on as much CB as possible (Guillaume's and upped Gore Riders). Strategy would be to run in, Kick everything down to about half health using DTalon and CB, then clean up with the appropriate PS charge.

Also, the build as nothing to do with your claw damage, only speed. Upgrading the Tuc's is unnecessary, plus you can just use Tiger+Cobra (1 point each) to refill whenever you want.

Sounds like fun to me!


EDIT: Again, I say, BoI sucks. It takes 3 landed hits just to charge up and the damage is pathetic. Facets might help, but not much damage +5% is still not much damage. You only get a single element per release: one ball gets you a Meteor, two balls gets you that cool Chain Lightning stuff, and three balls gets you the Chaos Ice Bolts (look like the shards from Orb, a bunch of them spiral out when you release the charges). If they stacked it'd be a different story, but as it is charge three is awful, don't max it.

[Valar-Wrath]

Never played an MA assassin. Seems like fun but I do have a +3 MA ammy that you could have. Just msg me.

*Valar-HC

[rachil0]

I would do either TS/DTail/PS/CoT (big physical damage, big fire AoE damage, lit for backup ) or CoT/PS/FoF/? (good fire damage and good lightning damage)

I did the first one. You can get some pretty wacked out damage numbers if you use dtail and elite boots, if just takes longer to charge it up and dish it out. It's still a very fast killer since dtail is area of effect anyway. (my DTail lists 34K damage when full charged). CoT would be for PI or FI monsters.

Like phat said, the big elemental attacks are claws of thunder (with PS maxed for synergy) or the meteor charge of PS (with FoF maxed for synergy).

[PhatTrumpet]

Add DTalon do rachil0's second build suggestion and you've got mine... so basically listen to him. :lol:

[Sip]

and what would the finisher be for phoenix strike now?

Will a kick release TS/PS?

[PhatTrumpet]

The finisher is almost completely irrelevant as, with Pheonix Strike, a regular attack works just as well as anything else, but go ahead and use DTalon since it'll have 20 points invested.

[rachil0]

and what would the finisher be for phoenix strike now?

Will a kick release TS/PS?

Any kick will release PS. Any kick will release TS as well, but DTail releases a lot more damage with TS than DTalon does. There is a kicking FAQ stickied in the assassin forum if you want to see the numbers.

For a high level assassin, I think that dtail makes a lot more sense than dtalon. Even a level one dtalon, with all your added skills, will be sufficient for just crushing things. (you can probably get to 4 kicks pretty easily with one point invested, compared to prolly 7 or so with it maxed)

[Baranor]

hmmm imma doing a dual claws sin, and am going for dual tucs. now say that you do the same, i.e. dual tucs, and then with 6 ma charms and a +2 skiller ammy, thats 2+2+2= 6 to all skills and 6+2=8 to MA so 14 to MA overall.

mmm now lets see.

20 pts into phoenix strike for synergy, 20 pts FoF, CoT and BoI.

FoF:
Current Skill Level: 34
24: Charge 1 - fire damage: 2247-2471
19: Charge 2 - fire damage radius: 2.6 yards
17: Charge 3 - fire damage: 1818-1934 per second
2: Attack: +246 percent
1: Mana Cost: 2

CoT

Current Skill Level: 34
24: Charge 1 - lightning damage: 2-5148
62: Charge 2 - nova damage: 2-3133
62: Charge 3 - charged bolt damage: 2-5044
2: Attack: +246 percent
1: Mana Cost: 4

BoI

Current Skill Level: 34
24: Charge 1 - cold damage: 1796-1942
19: Charge 2 - cold damage radius: 4 yards
12: Charge 3 - freeze duration: 17.2 seconds
2: Attack: +246 percent
1: Mana Cost: 3

Phoenix Strike

Current Skill Level: 34
62: Charge 1 - meteor damage: 2760-3084
38: Fire Explosion Damage: 2727-2901 per second
62: Charge 2 - chain lightning damage: 3-6984
62: Charge 3 - chaos ice bolt damage: 1404-1506
2: Attack: +246 percent
1: Mana Cost: 4

The most powerfull skill in this area then is CoT, as it releases both the CB and the novae on release, causing massive lighting damage. Take your pick. Imma doin dual claw//CoT//PS with prolly Dtail for finisher as I have Gorerider boots.

[Sip]

hmmm imma doing a dual claws sin, and am going for dual tucs. now say that you do the same, i.e. dual tucs, and then with 6 ma charms and a +2 skiller ammy, thats 2+2+2= 6 to all skills and 6+2=8 to MA so 14 to MA overall.


Tucs have +2 all, +1 martial arts. So that would be +3 skills.

Can you try it again with:
Shako (2), Bartucs (3), +3 ma ammy (3), +3 ma/20%ias gloves (3), 7 ma charms (7), anni (1) = +19 ma skills

"Fists of Fire, Claws of Thunder, and Blades of Ice require one Claw-class weapon"- from the arreat summit.

So you cant go dual Tucs. I think that Stormshield would be very important for this build to get %DR. I'd also probably use ravenfrost, Upgraded gore riders, verdungos, duress and possibly Bk ring to get +20 ma skills.


Right now I'm thinking Tiger strike+Dtail for a fire damage kick and then phoenix strike/claws of thunder for Lit damage. I would probably then figure out how many points with +skills i would need to get a certain number of kicks from Dragon talon.

Oh yes, another good idea will be to keep 2x +3 shadow disc claws on switch for casting venom and other shadow skills. If anyone here is good with IAS maybe they could figure out how much IAS i would need and if i could use fade or bos.

[Baranor]

Sure ill redo with +19. However, you CAN use dual claws. The htis from dual claw with FoF, CoT and BoI are all like a dragon claw attack, i.e. a fast dual swing, and provided your AR is high enough you'll get two charges usually. Ideal for some quick ripping novaes. Does this sound like BS? Well, ask Ann-May, my leve 19 sin enjoying herself with DUAL claws ^_^.

mmm 19 huh?

FoF


Current Skill Level: 39
24: Charge 1 - fire damage: 2927-3219
19: Charge 2 - fire damage radius: 2.6 yards
17: Charge 3 - fire damage: 2332-2484 per second
2: Attack: +281 percent
1: Mana Cost: 2

CoT


Current Skill Level: 39
24: Charge 1 - lightning damage: 2-6448
62: Charge 2 - nova damage: 2-3978
62: Charge 3 - charged bolt damage: 2-6344
2: Attack: +281 percent
1: Mana Cost: 4

BoI


Current Skill Level: 39
24: Charge 1 - cold damage: 2316-2488
19: Charge 2 - cold damage radius: 4 yards
12: Charge 3 - freeze duration: 19.2 seconds
2: Attack: +281 percent
1: Mana Cost: 3

PS

Current Skill Level: 39
62: Charge 1 - meteor damage: 3450-3834
38: Fire Explosion Damage: 3498-3726 per second
62: Charge 2 - chain lightning damage: 3-8784
62: Charge 3 - chaos ice bolt damage: 1824-1941
2: Attack: +281 percent
1: Mana Cost: 4

there you are m8 :D

Tucs have +2 all, +1 martial arts. So that would be +3 skills.

Can you try it again with:
Shako (2), Bartucs (3), +3 ma ammy (3), +3 ma/20%ias gloves (3), 7 ma charms (7), anni (1) = +19 ma skills

"Fists of Fire, Claws of Thunder, and Blades of Ice require one Claw-class weapon"- from the arreat summit.

So you cant go dual Tucs. I think that Stormshield would be very important for this build to get %DR. I'd also probably use ravenfrost, Upgraded gore riders, verdungos, duress and possibly Bk ring to get +20 ma skills.


Right now I'm thinking Tiger strike+Dtail for a fire damage kick and then phoenix strike/claws of thunder for Lit damage. I would probably then figure out how many points with +skills i would need to get a certain number of kicks from Dragon talon.

Oh yes, another good idea will be to keep 2x +3 shadow disc claws on switch for casting venom and other shadow skills. If anyone here is good with IAS maybe they could figure out how much IAS i would need and if i could use fade or bos.

[PhatTrumpet]

"Fists of Fire, Claws of Thunder, and Blades of Ice require one Claw-class weapon"- from the arreat summit.
That should read, "at least one claw-class weapon."


I'm not sure if you're seeing things Barry, but charges only get released on the initial finishing hit, meaning whether you use a normal attack, Dragon Claw (two successive hits), or Dragon Talon (multiple hits) you only release the charge(s) once. Otherwise don't you think people would be using TigerStrike with DragonClaw all the time in PvP?

Just in case, I want to clarify that each single element skill will release all the accumulated charges at once, i.e. a three-ball release will have the effect of the first charge, the second charge, and the third charge all in one. Pheonix is different in that it only releases one charge effect at a time, i.e. either Meteor, Chain Lightning, or Chaos Ice Bolts, not an accumulation.


EDIT: Looked it up to cover my arse.
Quote from Assasin General FAQ
Q: Does Dragon Claw and Dragon Talon apply charge ups more than once?

A: No. Although the description for Dragon Claw reads "Adds charged-up bonuses to both claw attacks", it does not appear to do so, at version 1.10. It releases charges with the first claw that successfully attacks and the second just comes with the damage/attack bonus of Dragon Claw. Dragon Talon can have multiple kicks but any charge ups are released on the first kick only.

[Cleglaw_Himself]

I have a +1 MA gc if you need another.

*Cleglaw

[stevethatsmyname]

The htis from dual claw with FoF, CoT and BoI are all like a dragon claw attack, i.e. a fast dual swing, and provided your AR is high enough you'll get two charges usually.


you misread it. Fof, CoT, and BoI are charge-up skills. barry is saying that he can get 2 charges with 1 attack using dual claw charge ups. he didnt say he can release charges multiple times.

[PhatTrumpet]

you misread it. Fof, CoT, and BoI are charge-up skills. barry is saying that he can get 2 charges with 1 attack using dual claw charge ups. he didnt say he can release charges multiple times.
... but you can't. Unless this has changed recently, you swing just as fast with two claws as you do with one, and you alternate right-left-right-left etc.

With one attack of a charge-up skill you get one ball, if you manage to hit your target. If you click on a monster with a charge-up skill you attack once and have the chance to get one ball, you don't swing with both claws, unless you click on a monster with Dragon Claw, in which you're not charging anything up you're just doing a finishing move.

... am I missing something here? :scratch:

[Valar-Wrath]

All the elemental charge-up skills have the potential to gain two charges with a single dual-claw attack (assuming that both claws successfully hit). This dramatically increases the rate at which you can deal out big doses of damage. While you could do this build with a shield, I highly recommend a dual-claw setup.

I found this on a PS sin build. Not sure if this is what you are talking about or if it's way old but maybe it will help.

[Tao_of_Xero]

I have an eth jade talon taking up space on a mule if you want it. *born[2]die (useast) 172-226 Damage 29/29 Dur.

[rotor_001]

Go go kicker/trapper hybrid:

Ok so she was/is low budget:

Guillarmes "um"
Duress "um"
Azure wrath "shael" meets max kick speed
Draculs
raven + dwarf + tgods (is dc-killer)
upped gores
+sin/ma +25 str ammy
ar charms with life/elemental damage
ss

skills:
max venom
max dtalon I hit 24 with my setup
max dflight (Pvp I suppose)'
mindblast/wake if it pleases you
Death sentry if you plan for pvm
lightning sentry as fake if pvp
max lightning and death for pvm
get a shadow.

This build kills dclone in about 15 seconds, with no potions used.
for pvp which I guess your interested in I'm unsure. The damage might be to low. Ar of my sin is at 16K with demon limb chant. all and all hard to beat as dclone killer. Maybe a liberator would be faster.

Cheers

feel free to message me if you wanna look try this build *megatronX. I really need a lesson in instigating pvping for a lvl ~30 :).

Edit: Ok so I umed my duress, big deal :)

[AzaZaz]

I made a few 90+ PS asns pre 1.10.

They were all dual claw with dragon claw on left click and pheonix on right. With synergies the chain light is effective for mass dmg, while the blades of ice are excellent for crowd control (assuming this is a consideration of yours). The comment about getting 2 charges from 1 dragon claw attack is very true. Having a group of monsters frozen, then a swingle swing gives you just the right amount of charges for chain light. Freeze - chain light - freeze - chain light....quite effective. Although Death Sent is definately not to be left out of any pvm asn build IMO.

[Pennywise-TC]

I would do either TS/DTail/PS/CoT (big physical damage, big fire AoE damage, lit for backup ) or CoT/PS/FoF/? (good fire damage and good lightning damage)

The first build is probably the funniest build I have ever tried in Diablo. Add a point in death sentry (or get one from a claw) and you are a mean killing machine. I really recommend it!

Cheers!

[Full_Circle]

This build kills dclone in about 15 seconds, with no potions used.

Sorry for doubting... but 15 seconds? :xgrin:

I mean, really? 15 seconds? I don't even think that's possible... but then maybe I'm wrong. I had a similar build last ladder, although far from optimal, I admit (no duress, shadowdancers instead of up'd gores), and it took her about two minutes to take him down. :xgrin:

[Baranor]

... but you can't. Unless this has changed recently, you swing just as fast with two claws as you do with one, and you alternate right-left-right-left etc.

With one attack of a charge-up skill you get one ball, if you manage to hit your target. If you click on a monster with a charge-up skill you attack once and have the chance to get one ball, you don't swing with both claws, unless you click on a monster with Dragon Claw, in which you're not charging anything up you're just doing a finishing move.

... am I missing something here? :scratch:


go test. it works like i said. at least it does for my sin.

[rachil0]

Using elemental left-tree skills, you charge faster with 2 claws than one. (Baranor is correct). If you wear one claw, you will charge at a minimum 7 frames per swing. Two claws will enable you to charge at as low as 10 frames per two swings. It's one swift animation that's ten frames long, in which you attack with both claws (one swings across and the other slashes down... it's a damn cool attack) and get a charge on both hits.

You might say, well I can get 4 hits in 20 frames or 3 hits in 21 frames, big deal. Yeah, but what if you miss? (Your AR will not be super, I'd expect 8Kish) That 4th hit is like backup for your expected 75% chance to hit.

A word of warning, even using a good BoS level you'll need some decent IAS to get to the 5/5 breakpoint. -30 Tucs, shael and your 3 MA/20 IAS gloves will get you close, about 20-30 more somewhere should do the trick. Even if you don't meet the 5/5, there's an 11 frame breakpoint right about it that's still fast (that's the one I think I got)



Having a group of monsters frozen, then a swingle swing gives you just the right amount of charges for chain light.


This statement is not correct. PS does not use this animation, it always accumulates one charge at a time. See the IAS tables stickied in the 'sin FAQ.
http://www.rpgforums.net/showthread.php?t=229326 (IAS)


The most powerfull skill in this area then is CoT, as it releases both the CB and the novae on release, causing massive lighting damage. Take your pick. Imma doin dual claw//CoT//PS with prolly Dtail for finisher as I have Gorerider boots.


This is only partially correct. The bolts and nova are both affected by "next-delay" (like strafe). That means you'll basically get only one or the other to hit a given target. Typically you get nova to hit everyone around you, and then the charged bolts meander away and hit far away enemies. The melee lightning is not affected by next delay, but it only hits the one monster you release upon. This bug aside, it's still the best elemental skill.
http://strategy.diabloii.net/news.php?id=538#The third charge of CoT now releases Nova and Bolts together. How does CoT's NextDelay of 4 frame affect it?


The first build is probably the funniest build I have ever tried in Diablo. Add a point in death sentry (or get one from a claw) and you are a mean killing machine. I really recommend it!


Yes I am encouraging you to do that build too, it was very fun and very powerful. The only time I would use PS/FoF/CoT over PS/CoT/TS/DTail is if I had an equipment selection that prohibited me from using elite boots (only NATS SET!). If you are mixing and matching uniques, IMO you should be using elite boots and DTail.

One last thing, I think a good jade talon is perfect for this build. You lose one MA skill (which sucks, but dry your tears on the +19 skills you'll still have) and 20 str/dex (which is superfluous damage in the Dtail equation, compared to your huge %ed already granted from TS and DTail both maxed) but you gain 50 res all, get to use BoS to get the delicious 5/7 frame chargeups, get to use claw block and get some mana leech too. You can still fit in PDR too (mine was claw/claw 35 PDR).

EDIT: whew that's long, fixed the quotes and found links.