Regarding the Mages

[FrozenSolid]

So after a long time Ive decided maybe to dump my 19 spare pts into skel mages (thus maxing it). Im wondering if the dmg increases in any way when putting more pts into skel mage?
Reason for asking is because Ive tried raising them (7 mages) and used them in hell act 5 and even with lr the dmg wasnt all that great.

[Mad Mantis]

So after a long time Ive decided maybe to dump my 19 spare pts into skel mages (thus maxing it). Im wondering if the dmg increases in any way when putting more pts into skel mage?
Reason for asking is because Ive tried raising them (7 mages) and used them in hell act 5 and even with lr the dmg wasnt all that great.

First of all, remember that only the Lightning and Fire Mages do enough damage to monsters. Cold and Poison are used as utility Mages.

Putting more points into Mages does increase the damage per Mage. At level 20 the damage from a Fire Mage is comparable to the damage from a Warrior. The difference between Mages and Warriors in terms of damage is Might and Amp. Might increases the damage from a Skellie radically and that number gets doubled by Amp against monsters without physical resist. Mages have to make do with only LR.

[FrozenSolid]

Ok, thx for the reply.
is there some way to find out the dmg of ur mages?

[Mad Mantis]

You can check the Arreat Summit Skill Page (http://www.battle.net/diablo2exp/skills/necromancer-summoning.shtml#skeletalmage) or you can use a skill calculator.

[FrozenSolid]

Thx for the pm :thanks:

[Myrakh-2]

It depends. Arreat Summit lists mage damage... but, of course, there is no knowing whether it's correct.

[leddan]

http://www.battle.net/diablo2exp/skills/necromancer-summoning.shtml#skeletalmage

[Wambat]

I wouldn't rely on mages to add damage, or even to deal with PIs. The really important function of mages is their utility functions: ice mages slow your enemies and poison mages PMH. Once you can equip your merc with Doom you really only need poison mages, unless you want to switch to a CB weapon for bosses. This is in reference to hell, of course; in norm and nm your mages will do plenty of damage; the really important thing is keeping the enemy slow and unhealing. If you come upon some tough physical immunes that amp wont crack just lure them into a field of bodies, LR them and CE away.

[Mad Mantis]

I wouldn't rely on mages to add damage, or even to deal with PIs.

You can rely on Mages for damage. All it needs is that you think a bit differently. Agreed, Mages won't reach the amount of damage that a Warrior can do, but it will be sufficient for Hell.

[jgreg7]

I've been playing a Lord of Mages (http://www.rpgforums.net//showthread.php?t=240626) slash Jailkeeper (http://www.rpgforums.net//showthread.php?t=239188) , based on the fine guides by rickcarson and Leuchovius. I can confirm that mages indeed do quite well in normal and NM, playing almost exclusively on players 8. I plan to start Hell with them tomorrow.

I have a question regarding their attributes. Since this is a pretty passive build, my AR & DR ratings are lousy (almost all stat points went into VIT). I know your minions use your MF%, but are they affected by your DR/AR? I was curious if it was worth pushing these up a bit, or if it really doesn't matter. What other attributes, if any, would be worth boosting? (Besides MF, of course!)

[Mad Mantis]

I know your minions use your MF%, but are they affected by your DR/AR? I was curious if it was worth pushing these up a bit, or if it really doesn't matter. What other attributes, if any, would be worth boosting? (Besides MF, of course!)

Your minions are only affected by your %MF, your Gold Find and your clevel. Your minions use your clevel in the chance-to-hit formula. So there is no need to push your AR and/or DR just to help your minions.

[jgreg7]

Your minions are only affected by your %MF, your Gold Find and your clevel. Your minions use your clevel in the chance-to-hit formula. So there is no need to push your AR and/or DR just to help your minions.That's very helpful: I was debating swapping out a DR4 zombie head with fairly nice mods (including +1 to all) for a Lidless Wall that I just found. Since I don't need DR or block I'll stick with the head.

The Arreat Summit also mentions clvl affecting the minion chance-to-hit formula. However my Mages appear to hit 100% of the time. Are the missles landing but doing no damage? Or do mages from a character of level 65 hit with such a high percentage that I don't notice the misses?

[Kretschmer]

Chance to hit is only for certain attacks. Most ranged magic attacks don't factor in AR at all.

Some examples:

-Frozen Orb: AR does not effect
-Bone Spirit: AR does not effect
-Concentrate: AR dependent
-Vengeance: AR dependent
-Traps: AR does not effect
-Strafe: AR dependent
-Tornado: AR does not effect

Skelton Warriors: depends on AR of skeleton
Skeleton Magi: AR does not effect
Fire Golem: Depends on AR of golem for striking attack. Holy Fire Aura AR independent.

Hopefully, you can see a sort of pattern emerging. If an attack doesn't list AR on the character screen, it's AR-independent. These attacks will hit unless blocked. Minions depend on AR to hit with striking attacks (exceptions: Raven, ???), but "sorcery" minion attacks are AR-independent. Just try a bit of everything, and it'll become quite clear.

[jgreg7]

Chance to hit is only for physical attacks.You mean The Arreat Summit was wrong? That never happens! :uhhuh:

[Wambat]

You can rely on Mages for damage. All it needs is that you think a bit differently. Agreed, Mages won't reach the amount of damage that a Warrior can do, but it will be sufficient for Hell.

Please excuse my apparent hubris; it was not my intention to, in any way, slight the great Lord of Mages; for whom I have nothing but respect. My comments are in the context of a nec making use of maxed skeleton warriors.

The amount of damage contributed by a group maxed skeleton mages is so dwarfed by the physical damaged your warriors are delivering; even if you take the time to ensure they are all lightning and fire mages; that you will find the poison and ice mages contribute far more to the efficiency of your warriors killing power for their chilling and PMH abilities than any mage will for it’s damage ability. So, indeed, mages are useful, but the ones you want to use; cold and poison; will not become more useful with further skill investment; your +skills should be enough.

In terms of dealing with Physical Immunes, 19 skill points will go further in poison or bone skills. Like I said, most of the PI that cant be broken by amp will be susceptible to the LR/CE combo; even a relatively weak BS or PN will kill PI/FI’s faster than your mages, and PN will give you something besides curses to help your army out.

By the way, I read a post recently about one nec coming across a PI/FI/Stone Skin unique that took him ages; probably a half-hour; to kill with his mages; I don’t know that they were maxed, but I doubt it would have made much difference. Please take my advise, if you come across a goon like this just move on, tele if you can, but running should do the trick. Just because a monster is hard to kill doesn’t mean he is going to drop anything worth while, or give you anymore experience than any other unique or possessed monster. There is no shame in letting some monsters live; there will be monsters that even the most powerful duel-tree sorc can’t kill, at least quickly, why should necs be different. Hey, you can kill a far greater percentage of monsters than most sorcs, so be happy.

[Mad Mantis]

Please excuse my apparent hubris; it was not my intention to, in any way, slight the great Lord of Mages; for whom I have nothing but respect. My comments are in the context of a nec making use of maxed skeleton warriors.

My post wasn't meant as criticism or something like that. I just thought I should mention that it could be done. It is hard to guess whether or not people have a lot of experience with the Necromancer.

If you maxed your Warriors and you use Mages you will find that the Mages won't kill as fast as the Warriors. Some people then find that Mages get in the way and decide not to use them. Some still see them as a valuable addition to an army. But you are right, with maxed Warriors the utility function does become more important.

[Kretschmer]

You mean The Arreat Summit was wrong? That never happens! :uhhuh:
*Cough* Edit *Cough*

;)