View Full Version : Zealer vs WWbarb
If anyone can tell me some useful ideas on how to beat a ww barb with a zealer, it would be much appreciated.
Range 3 weapon, max block, max dr, high life, at least 20k ar.
Shift zeal, walk dont run ever.
Don't charge.
Get high defense (30k+).
Mix in smite as well, especially if they barb is at very low life since it is unblockable.
Kodachi_ysaane
18-11-2004, 04:54
Get a doom zerker for Holy freeze + range 3, and smite with exile.
You will lifetap them and be able to out tank since they are slowed during ww.
Even level 1 smite can win most of the time... although vs, ww sins zeal is much stronger than smite
Slow=more hits per ww = more dmg
Kodachi_ysaane
18-11-2004, 05:05
actually, the more times you can smite them outweights the one extra hit on whirl they might get... and I have been using ww barbs and ww sins since start of 1.10 and I have never noticed being cold giving me more hits... but you would also get more smites on them regardless...
Well smite is interruptable so slowing down a barb can backfire and a hit from ww is much more deadlier than a smite. Also vice vera, a barb can throw on a doom and its gg for the pally anyday unless the barb is stupid.
triangle whirlwinds with the help of holy freeze can mess with a smiter bad.
^^that too, forgot about that. Plus there are much better smiting weapons like kingslayer, fury, maybe a rose branded scepter of quickness with um/ber's in it.
^^that too, forgot about that. Plus there are much better smiting weapons like kingslayer, fury, maybe a rose branded scepter of quickness with um/ber's in it.
i have never used a king slayer with a smiter but just by the mods you can tell it'll blow doom away. i dont think fury is really good other than the ow. against big barbs id say an astoens ward (if the guy doesnt mind the 20% slow) and kinslayer would be best.id lean more towards asteons since it has skills, + damage and inherit cb. you can put another ber in it for even more.
Do scepters have range 3? If they do then a 2+ pally 2+fana +2-3 HS of quickness with 2 sockets would be sick on a smiter.
Do scepters have range 3? If they do then a 2+ pally 2+fana +2-3 HS of quickness with 2 sockets would be sick on a smiter.
no they dont which is one downer. i think scepter are range 2 i will have to verify it later. the damage increase mixed with crushing blow will be great though. a rosebranded cepter of quickness with those mods... never seen one but it would be mighty godly. i only know a couple dedicated pallys that have very nice "blue" pally gear (food poisoning/ROMVS)
:)
zealer guys zealer not smiter ~~
in public games there is no rules range 3 weapon is the best option like scourge but the most important thing ar ds life def as long as u stand on that long u can fight
Gfighter88
18-11-2004, 19:13
i was watching a friend of mine duel some ww barbs (yes he has a zealer) and he was kicking some butt with his etheral lacerator dont know if you can afford or not but it is a pretty good weapon to use for a zealer it is fast :surprise: and he usually owned them but if you dont want that id advise maybe a rare cruel that adds like 1k or more ar and max damage with some dex that has a +3 range.
Kodachi_ysaane
18-11-2004, 20:50
I know this is about zealots, but trust me, exile + dracs and level 1 smite with maxed holy shield (good zealots have max HS) + doom zerker will be able to take down ANY barb easily.
If the barb uses doom he either loses dmg from botd and you can tank him easier, or he is dual wielding, where it would be better to shift zeal.
Any paladin can handle a barb if he knows what he's doing...
shift smite with exile + doom will guarentee you the win
Gear for gear, melee paladins have little to no chance versus barbs, even no shield barbs.
Kodachi, I would *LOVE* to prove you entirely wrong. *mcm375.
Mehatesmaphack
18-11-2004, 21:41
Kodachi, I would *LOVE* to prove you entirely wrong. *mcm375.
He's on east which is why he can talk big wihtout backing anything up. He'll probably ask you to duel him on open and make chars with 500k life and probably hire his friend to ip hack you.
I don't see how any zealer/smiter can beat a 6-7k life barb with 50dr and duel wielding. Duel wielding gets past that annoying block, and since a lot of pallys will try smiting, a shield won't do anything anyway. If they triangle whirl you, you Will die. Not sure if doom or beast would be better for that, but I figure pally is screwed either way.
The only thing I'm not sure of is the lifetap factor. Without lifetap though, pally has 0 chance unless he miraculously hits, gets deadly strike, and blocks 100% of the time.
Just for good measure, after you bo/shout/bc, switch in a widowmaker. Fun and makes ur chances to win 120% now.
Zeal/smite just can't beat a ww barb.
They use exile? Lifetap wand or use widowmaker+dracs to trigger it.
Luis I was thinking for a switch more along the lines of double throwing eth lacerators.
33% more OW, 33% chance of amp. If you have the dex to do this w/o giving up 50PDR and angelics (I do not unfortunately, but that is of no consequence to the outcome) this would be ideal.
Actually I just chucked an eth lacerator on my BVCer. The 112 dex req is kinda a pain, but with some equipment jiggering I can dual weild them for when I'm level 95 and spend a point in double throw (im level 94 now.)
I only really plan on using this versus hammerdins since I would say my only real weakness right now without it is not being able to attack a hammerdin who is camping in his little hammer circle. Since I can't double throw right now I chucked on a blackoak luna also, which has a massive 47 dex boost (not to mention a spare socket), so I can use pretty much whatever other items I want, though I generally tend to use angelics versus hammerdins because I want my attacks to hit.
One point in axe mastery and demon limb with angelics and good charms gives around 13k AR single throw. This is actually surprisingly effective versus hammerdins who stand still for too long. As soon as they are amped, I just plow right into them with WW, hammer circle or not they WILL die. I've never seen ANYBODY who is amped take more than 1 WW pass to the face. It's triple damage to a 50% PDR user, that's simply game over.
Ya. Luuucifer used those vs my windy on ladder. Damn does that hurt.
an amped ww can prolly hit pasted 1k pure physical damage after penalty and dr reduction.
(6k ww/6 = 1k damage. 50% dr = 500 damage, double it and youve got 1k! :))
doubt even a good pally can take many of those.
+critical/deadly + multi hit = gg.
A widowmaker works much better vs hammer pallys, I've tried lacerators but if the pally tele's fast around you, constantly making hammer fields, GA is much easier to use and since it is ITD its faster. Same with melee pallys since you require no AR to hit em.
Another thing you can do is put an eth lacerator as your main weapon and have widowmaker on switch. Shoot it then swith weapons for the 33% amp.
Also a widowmaker takes less space than 2 lacerators.
Amp reduces physical damage resistance by 100%. If someone has 50% PDR they now have -150%. That's TRIPLE the damage they normally receive.
6k WW * 0.17 * 0.5 = 510
510 * 3 = 1530.
The attack speed of a widowmaker is a bit slow though isnt it? Also its dex req is through the roof for a build that usually has no need for dex, though you *can* HEL rune it, but that kinda diminishes the potential from chucking an UM in it.
mcm widow maker is 144-46 dex i think, not too much since at high levels barb will need to invest in dex for max block anyways. um your wm with joy :) (for a regular barb.. for caster killer barbs i have no clue how much dex they invest.)
I have dueled a few widowmaker barbs with my druid. They are effective, although mostly just to make you get near them for a quick ww. Without my minions though, the arrows would probably do some decent damage, especially with ow.
hmm.. somewhat off topic but wont a pure smiter with widow maker do just as well as a v/t? long range: widow em to death, come near and smite em :O
Can do well, but if you get caught without your shield, you're gonna die pretty fast. Barb can tank a bit without shield.
Widowmaker isn't that slow with a shael in it.
A "pure" bvc barb with no block will have a hard time using it.
My barb is a bvc barb with max block so I have plenty of dex.
mcm, if you can get enough dex for it, you'll find hammerdins much, much easier.
I've dueled alot of top hammedins and I usually come out on top and an average-good hammerdin won't stand a chance in hell vs a ww widowmaker barb.
Can't say I have any problems with hammerdins as it is, but yes widowmaker would be a nice-to-have. In fact come to think of it, a HEL'd widowmaker would be usable at only 116 dex req. I just like the throwing axe though, it does way more damage, throws faster, has way more open wounds, and comes with a 33% chance to instantly win (amp.)
Yeah but vs a very offensive, 99%fcr, 4k life, max block, 10k+def, high dr hammerdin, it will be hard to get a hit in with some axes.
With widowmaker all you have to do is shoot in the general direction, unless they are on your screen then shift+ga works well enough.
Puts them in block animation too since it can only be blocked.
Yeah but vs a very offensive, 99%fcr, 4k life, max block, 10k+def, high dr hammerdin, it will be hard to get a hit in with some axes.
With widowmaker all you have to do is shoot in the general direction, unless they are on your screen then shift+ga works well enough.
Puts them in block animation too since it can only be blocked.
I thought it wasn't 99FCR...or then again I might be wrong...but I think you're trying to say 9 Frame Casting. It's more like 18k Def...if the Barb uses Widowmaker the Pally can just wait till the Barb runs outta arrows :idea:. Or the Pally can switch to Widowmaker and with 1 point in Fanat, I think we know who'd win :drool:.
Barbs cannot beat Hammerdins...period...
I thought it wasn't 99FCR...or then again I might be wrong...but I think you're trying to say 9 Frame Casting. It's more like 18k Def...if the Barb uses Widowmaker the Pally can just wait till the Barb runs outta arrows :idea:. Or the Pally can switch to Widowmaker and with 1 point in Fanat, I think we know who'd win :drool:.
Barbs cannot beat Hammerdins...period...
World record for most ******** in one paragraph?
1) Defense is ignored by guided arrow, Barb isnt going to run out of arrows before paladin dies.
2) Barb vs Paladin w/ widowmakers.. Hmm barb has 3x pally life, and barb has 50% PDR w/o weapons/shields (at least mine does.) Game over pally.
3) Barb's can only make mistakes and lose to hammerdins. I can't remember the last time a hammerdin consistently beat me. I hope you've got a hammerdin on west for me to beat down *mcm375, AIM: mcm375416.
Buliarios
19-11-2004, 10:39
out of all my time of being a Barb, I only ever met one zealer pally that was half decent and was actually able to do something to me.
Not to mention I also pissed on most Smiter Pally's, there was only ever one that could be me constantly.
Just trust me on this zealots can't be Barbs hands down.
I'm also willing to prove this, pm me about it, I don't play D2 much anymore but I'm willing to prove a point.
Weltkriegpally
19-11-2004, 11:08
Amp reduces physical damage resistance by 100%. If someone has 50% PDR they now have -150%. That's TRIPLE the damage they normally receive.
6k WW * 0.17 * 0.5 = 510
510 * 3 = 1530.
The attack speed of a widowmaker is a bit slow though isnt it? Also its dex req is through the roof for a build that usually has no need for dex, though you *can* HEL rune it, but that kinda diminishes the potential from chucking an UM in it.
if they have 50 pdr, thats -50 physical resistance. aside from that, resistances may not be lowered to more than -100. apart from all this, you guys do need to remember that smite is just as uninterruptible as ww, and it maintains its block, just as ww does. I am not going to say that a pally will always beat a ww barb, or that a ww barb will always beat a pally. However, for a zealot to beat a ww barb, he would need to maintain blocking by standing still, using a range 3 weapon (zerker, scourge), holding shift+attack, and moving off if the barb tries the old triangle whirl technique. shift+charge out and make him come to you. It does work. zealots can beat ww barbs, just not easily.
--welt
I've heard that works as well, but have never seen it personally. Any zealers here that can demonstrate on west for me?
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