upped buriza question.

[opterasis]

Id like to up my buriza, but my strength is at about 110, and i wasnt sure what the required strength is for an upped one. since im at lvl 83, im slowly going to be running out of stat points. So can anyone tell me what the req. strength is? thanks.

[Thrugg]

It's whatever the requirements are of the upgraded item type.
In this case, Ballistas upgrade to Colossus Crossbows, so Str 163 Dex 77.
It will also have a level requirement of 63.

[sangfagel]

Since crossbows ph dmg multiplies by dex and not str, you (depending on ed%) will win very little or even can lose some effective dmg after upgrading. You must invest 53 state points in str instead for dex - it does not matter if you gain your str from state pionts´ alocation or from gear/charms. It is allways str instead for dex. You also lose your AR which is another factor affecting average dmg rate.

[Awaiting-Death]

Since crossbows ph dmg multiplies by dex and not str, you (depending on ed%) will win very little or even can lose some effective dmg after upgrading. You must invest 53 state points in str instead for dex - it does not matter if you gain your str from state pionts´ alocation or from gear/charms. It is allways str instead for dex. You also lose your AR which is another factor affecting average dmg rate.

Am I just too tired, or did anyone else not understand a word of this? I think he's saying that you won't gain any extra dmg from investing str points in order to use and upped ballista, and you might just be better off leaving it un upped, and just putting a bunch of points in dexterity? maybe...

It could just be a recipe for apple pie or something, i'm not sure.


... :cheesy:

[opterasis]

i think thats what he meant lol. either way, i guess it would be smarter to deal with the buriza till i can afford that wf. thanks guys.

[Awaiting-Death]

i think thats what he meant lol. either way, i guess it would be smarter to deal with the buriza till i can afford that wf. thanks guys.

You could always socket the upped buriza with a hel...

Here's some of the calculations:

Ballista : 33 to 55dmg
Str req:110 Dex req:80

Collosus : 32 to 91dmg
Str req:163 Dex req:77

Bow and Crossbow Damage Formulae

Final_Min_Damage = Weapon_Min_Damage * (Dex+100)/100
Final_Max_Damage = Weapon_Max_Damage * (Dex+100)/100

with just the basics:
Ballista dmg (80 dex)
33*18 - 55*18
594 - 990

Collosus dmg (80 dex)
32*18 - 91*18
576 - 1638

Ballista dmg with 53 more dex (133 dex)
33*23.3 - 55*23.3
768.9 - 1281.5

After Hel rune, Collosus has str req of 130.4 (rounded to 130) which would give us another 33 skill points to put on dex

Collosus with Hel rune dmg with 33 more dex (113 dex)
32*21.3 - 91*21.3
681.6 - 1938.3

So it seems that a Collosus with Hel rune would definitely deal more dmg. Even a Collosus without Hel still deals a good 350 more dmg per arrow. Mind you, if you socket it with a Hel, that keeps you from using Shael or something like that, but we're talking a fair amount of dmg here. In my opinion, it's at least something to try, to see how it fairs.

Remember, that these numbers are just for the base items, not including the extra attributes on Buriza (including the +35 dex)

[Manowar[COWA]]

Thought they would not let you "up" the burzia or was that only in 1.0x

[Thrugg]

The rumour about Buriza not being upgradeable was another lame attempt at a joke by the same guy who brought you the Reziarfg monster.

Awaiting-Death left out a couple of important details (and seems to think 180/100 = 18), but the sense is more or less right. An upped Buriza is certainly still better than a base one, even without a Hel. It is up to you whether you think it is enough better to justify the rune cost.

[Awaiting-Death]

The rumour about Buriza not being upgradeable was another lame attempt at a joke by the same guy who brought you the Reziarfg monster.

Awaiting-Death left out a couple of important details (and seems to think 180/100 = 18), but the sense is more or less right. An upped Buriza is certainly still better than a base one, even without a Hel. It is up to you whether you think it is enough better to justify the rune cost.


woah, my math is bad there... but the ratio's stay the same, so the answer is still the same...

man, i'm dumb sometimes :grrr:

[krischan]

Sorry, Awaiting-Death, but your calculation is wrong in several places.

Edit: Somebody else already noticed this - it seems I needed quite long to write this posting...

First, a bonus of 80% will increase damage by a factor of 1.8, not 18. Second, a Buriza adds to max dmg on a per-level base which is a very important factor for it. Third, if you compare the stat investments with a Hel'ed, upped Buriza, you have to consider 163*0.8 - 110 = 20 dex, not 33.

A Ballista deals 33-55 base damage. A perfect Buriza has 200%ed and makes this 3 times as much, i.e. 99-165. A L63 character gets a bonus of 63*2.5=157.5 to max dmg from a Buriza, so damage will be 99-322.5 at this point. With 80 dex, that damage will be higher by 80%, i.e. 1.8 times as much = 178-580 damage. BTW, %ed bonuses from non-weapons, %ed to demons/undead from any source and %ed from skills is added to the % bonus from dex or str, but that is not meant to be an issue here.

Likewise, a collossus crossbow will deal 32*(1+200/100)*1.8 = 172 min dmg and (91*(1+200/100)+157.5)*1.8 = 774 max dmg for the above character, so average damage would be 473.

If he had invested 20 stat points into dex and still used the base Buriza, damage would be 198-645, i.e. 421 average damage. With 53 stat points put into dax, it would be 210-751, i.e. 480 average damage.

That means, if you psend Pul+Lum for upgrading and a Larzuk quest and a Hel rune for socketing it, you will get 52 more average damage - 12% more.

If you are rich, you could socket it with Lo which effectively adds 20% to total damage (i.e. including dmg per level, but excluding cold dmg). If you put a Lo into each weapon, you have to compare with a character with 53 more in dex. Average damage for the upped Buriza will be 567, while damage with a normal one with all 53 stats points spent into dex would be 576 - more than a colossus crossbow. However, that weapon might not be worth putting Lo into it.

[Euro-Crash]

Am I just too tired, or did anyone else not understand a word of this? I think he's saying that you won't gain any extra dmg from investing str points in order to use and upped ballista, and you might just be better off leaving it un upped, and just putting a bunch of points in dexterity? maybe...

It could just be a recipe for apple pie or something, i'm not sure.


... :cheesy:

You are just too tired...

Since a bow/crossbow's damage is calculated based upon the dexterity of any given character, you would be better off leaving it non-upgraded. This is because the only thing that would change on the weapon would be lvl requirement, str requirement and base damage.

Upgrading the Ballista to a Collossus Crossbow would result in having to invest an additional 53 pts. into strength in order to equip it. However, these are 53 points that could have been invested into dexterity...which ultimately would net more damage than the increased base damage of a Collossus Crossbow vs. a Ballista.