Ondal's & Anni question

[IliketoNARR]

I was doing Baal runs the other day when somebody told me that my IK barb having Ondal's was useless because the +5% exp gain you get from it or the +5-10% you get from annihilus charm only apply to the monsters that you kill personally and not other members of your party.

Can someone tell me if this is true or not?

Preferrably someone who knows what they're talking about and not just someone who heard the same.

Thanks

[Merick]

You could test this yourself by writing down your exp before and after 2 baal runs, one with ondal's and anny, one without.

[boyrobot]

I believe the bonus applies whenever you gain experience, whether you leeched it or not. +% experience items work exactly like an experience shrine which is the equivalent of +50% experience gained.

[Euro-Crash]

I was doing Baal runs the other day when somebody told me that my IK barb having Ondal's was useless because the +5% exp gain you get from it or the +5-10% you get from annihilus charm only apply to the monsters that you kill personally and not other members of your party.

Can someone tell me if this is true or not?

Preferrably someone who knows what they're talking about and not just someone who heard the same.

Thanks

I do not think so. Both items say +% experience gained...not +% experience gained from monsters you kill. When you kill a monster you get experience, when partied with others who kill monsters ON SCREEN, you get experience.

I believe that their argument is essentially this. With both of those items you have the potential to gain an additional 15% experience. However, if you are not killing monsters, you do not gain as much experience as you would if you killed the monsters yourself.

I believe the penalty for this is worked out as a percentage as well. Hence, they probably feel that the added 15% experience gained from using Ondal's and an Annihilus do not counteract the penalty for not killing the monsters yourself making said items useless.

IMHO, this is quite a silly thing to say. Afterall, if you are not a Blizz sorc, Hammerdin, Javazon you are not going to be killing every single monster in a Baal run. Even if you are, you are not going to do so...unless of course you are alone. This means that everyone is only gaining a fraction of the experience that they could be gaining. If this is true, then you will be gaining:

(a fraction of the experience you could be gaining) +
.15(a fraction of the experience you could be gaining)
----------------------------------------------------
1.15(a fraction of the experience you could be gaining) [Total]

Heh...is that confusing or what?

[plasmo]

Annihilus, Ondal's, and experience shrines all work with leeched experience.

Tested in act 1 hell on quill rats, zombies, and fallen using 2 characters in the same game:

Ondal's = 5% more experience
10% Annihilus = +10%
Ondal's + Anni = +15%
Experience Shrine = +50%
Ondal's + Anni + Exp Shrine = +65%

I also tested them in baal runs. However, the experience leeched there was much more varied, mainly because the amount of experience you get depends on your level versus the levels of all the other people in your party, and different people were joining the party in different games. They averaged to fairly close to those figures, though. http://www.battle.net/diablo2exp/basics/experience.shtml has more info on this, including:

"The total experience earned for killing a monster is divided evenly among all party members." I don't know about "leftover" experience or what not, but if this is correct, it shouldn't be more than 7 points in an 8-player game.

"The total experience earned for killing a monster is increased by 35% when a party member of the killer is in the same named area, defined as the 'level' on the Automap." Partying is good.

Obviously, teleporting around act 1 and finding an experience shrine will help you much more than anything else, although the +exp items help some, too. Go ahead and try to figure out how many games (and therefore how much time) that extra 5% from Ondal's will save you if you want.

Notes on exp shrines:
1. People will often get pissed if you keep getting them. Same with constantly using Ondal's (unless you're a hammerdin or sorc who can keep attacking anyway). So will constantly doing Pindle, Frigid Highlands, etc while someone else teleports. Argue whether it's "ethical," "fair," or whatever all you want; I'm just here for stats and real-world experience.
2. If you get too close to Baal, his curse will remove the exp shrine bonus, as will occasional curses by the various minions. Staying behind "leecher's rock" will usually keep you out of Baal's range, although the minions can throw their curses farther.

Oh, and if you're leveling your merc, none of these (anni, ondal's, exp shrine) will give him/her more experience.

[thamuzdevil]

Im pretty certain i read in an update text (when updating d2) that you only gain xp from party members who kill within two screens of your character, not on screen or in the same level as has been noted here. if this is different let me know, but i am certain i read this before in a patch txt.

[Euro-Crash]

Im pretty certain i read in an update text (when updating d2) that you only gain xp from party members who kill within two screens of your character, not on screen or in the same level as has been noted here. if this is different let me know, but i am certain i read this before in a patch txt.

Edit: Hehe...was going to say something rude here.

[plasmo]

Im pretty certain i read in an update text (when updating d2) that you only gain xp from party members who kill within two screens of your character, not on screen or in the same level as has been noted here. if this is different let me know, but i am certain i read this before in a patch txt.

You're correct; in fact, it says this on that link I gave.

The "2 screens" thing is for getting experience from a party member.
The "same area" thing is for giving the monster a 35% total experience bonus.

So, if 2 partied players are in the Blood Moor but more than 2 screens away, when one kills a monster, he will get 35% more experience, but the other player will not get any experience from that kill.

Sooo, I guess if you wanted to get the most experience, you should have at least 1 other person in the same area, but more than 2 screens away; that way you'd get the 35% bonus experience plus keep all of the experience from the monster rather than sharing it with him. At least, I think that's how it would work. (Although unless you can kill a whole lot faster than him and don't care about his experience, it would be better timewise to have you both killing monsters.)

Example:
1. You kill monster alone = 50 exp to you
2. You + partied player in same area, you kill, he >2 screens away = 50 * 1.35 = 68 exp to you, 0 to him
3. You + partied player in same area, <2 screens, he same level = 50 * 1.35 / 2 = 34 exp to you, 34 to him
4. Same as above, except you level 80 and he level 50: 50 * 1.35 * 80 / (80+50) = 42 exp to you, 26 to him
I think.


I hope that clears it up.

[Rekk_Dalton]

Oh my god, dont fricking answer this question, do you want another bloody leacher standing around w/ that beatoff stick

[krischan]

I was doing Baal runs the other day when somebody told me that my IK barb having Ondal's was useless because the +5% exp gain you get from it or the +5-10% you get from annihilus charm only apply to the monsters that you kill personally and not other members of your party.

Can someone tell me if this is true or not?

Preferrably someone who knows what they're talking about and not just someone who heard the same.

Thanks

May I ask what kind of IK barb you have without an IK maul ?

How do you kill monsters ? Might that be related to your question if xp from others are subject to the bonus as well ?

Don't you think that actually playing the game might be more fun than watching how the others kill stuff just for an extra 5% xp ? That sounds like a big waste of time.

[Myrakh-2]

May I ask what kind of IK barb you have without an IK maul ?

It's probaby a "Whine Barb". Don't know whether there is a guide; the skill setup is like this:
- max "sorc tele"
- max "whine about IM"
- max "whine about black souls"
- max "whine about dolls"
- max "whine about frenzytaurs"
- max "damned... lag"
- max "u noob"

The gear setup is based around the "PickIt" and "MapHack" uniques, preferably upgraded. Offhand I don't know how they can max so many skills, but they do.

It's just a prerequisite skill, but Whine Barbs can also sit in town and constantly ask why "u noob" needs so long to help them.

However, the most interesting thing about Whine Barbs is that they are just a version of the more general Whiner build. Unlike any othe build, the Whiner can be based off any of the 7 character classes available in D2; the only difference being that for example Whine Sorcs generally don't use "whine about IM", and instead of "sorc tele" they generally use "lvl xx tele". Minor variations like this are also used to adapt the Whiner build to the other classes, to take advantage of the class skill trees.

[Taft12]

Myrakh, you've got me rofling over here :lol: Bravo!

[Taft12]

May I ask what kind of IK barb you have without an IK maul ?

Well how else is he going to get the bonus from Ondal's? As long as he maxes Staff Mastery his dmg should be fine. ;)

[Rueter_Reborn]

Staff=Mace when weilded by barb. As far as I can tell he uses ik and has Ondals on switch.

BTW: 10 anni + 15 Ondals +50 exp shrine = 75% which at higher lvls is relatively useless concidering the nerfed exp.

:yawn:

[Hakai_no_Tenshi]

BTW: 10 anni + 15 Ondals +50 exp shrine = 75% which at higher lvls is relatively useless concidering the nerfed exp.

:yawn:

I would beg to differ .. any incremental gain at higher levels is where it counts. My lvl 98 assy usually makes 8k from minions and 30k from baal in full games. Leveling from 98 to 99 takes 7500+ runs (assuming you are not in a nub pubbie run where they all leave after killing minions). If I make use of ondal+anni+shrine to get 75% more exp, then this cuts the number of runs down to 4300+ runs. Each run takes roughly 3 mins and saving on 3200+ runs means that I cut down my baaling by 120 hrs of play time. I only play 4 hrs a day at best so this translates to a month (30 days) of baaling. Of course, no-one makes use of shrines in each-and-every game and you cannot always count on getting into a good baal series every time so this is a best case scenario .. odds are that it would be cutting down on over 2 months of play time to get to 99.

--T

[krischan]

Hakai, you are right, but the point is that the original poster uses Ondal's on a barb which means he cannot fight effectively while wearing it.

However, I admit that at the point where Baal gives more XP than the minions, it makes sense to switch to Ondals when Baal is down to a sliver. If that's the case, I apologize to the original poster for my cynical questions.

[Hakai_no_Tenshi]

Hakai, you are right, but the point is that the original poster uses Ondal's on a barb which means he cannot fight effectively while wearing it.

However, I admit that at the point where Baal gives more XP than the minions, it makes sense to switch to Ondals when Baal is down to a sliver. If that's the case, I apologize to the original poster for my cynical questions.

True .. always painful to see barbs and paladins with ondals and shrines standing in the back and doing nothing. Anyway, my response had nothing to do with barbs using Ondal but rather to the guy that said that they are not useful at higher levels due to exp nerf.

--T

[Rueter_Reborn]

I get better exp playing the game than doing baal runs over and over and over. Since the exp shrine doesn't last the entire baal run, and most people skip baal all together you might as well ignore the enhanced exp all together.

Krischan: I don't think he intended to fight with his barb just leech exp off of everyone else.

[Euro-Crash]

I get better exp playing the game than doing baal runs over and over and over. Since the exp shrine doesn't last the entire baal run, and most people skip baal all together you might as well ignore the enhanced exp all together.

Krischan: I don't think he intended to fight with his barb just leech exp off of everyone else.

Personally I don't care if anyone leeches...its the herding that annoys me. If you are going to leech that is well and good, but stay your *** put. Don't run around and bring over 30 monsters to me (since I am killing) and then get disappointed when I get over run...the reason I don't mind a well-mannered leech (oxymoronic, isn't it?) is I get more EXP with them there when I get the kill...

[Hakai_no_Tenshi]

I get better exp playing the game than doing baal runs over and over and over. Since the exp shrine doesn't last the entire baal run, and most people skip baal all together you might as well ignore the enhanced exp all together.


That's because you are probably not high enough level for the EXP cutoffs (http://www.battle.net/diablo2exp/basics/experience.shtml) to kick in. Beyond a certain level, you will not be getting as much exp as you can from minions and at lvl 98, your only real source of exp is Baal himself since the minions are mlvl 88 which lies right on the cusp of the -10 cutoff.

--T

[Rueter_Reborn]

Well lvl I'm at lvl 92 so I'm sure I meet the EXP cutoffs. I get more exp per run because I kill alot more monsters than doing baal runs and they are mostly unique and super unique monsters in act 5. I also do Pit and Ancients for possible unique item drops. I guarentee you would get more exp if you entered 8 player game and soloed act 5 areas. Baal is just the most boring thing in the world. I guess if you were rushing to a certain lvl 80 and below for say ...a dueler. Baal is deffinatly better. Guess we all have different play styles.

Anyway have fun guys/gals.

[Hakai_no_Tenshi]

Well lvl I'm at lvl 92 so I'm sure I meet the EXP cutoffs. I get more exp per run because I kill alot more monsters than doing baal runs and they are mostly unique and super unique monsters in act 5. I also do Pit and Ancients for possible unique item drops. I guarentee you would get more exp if you entered 8 player game and soloed act 5 areas. Baal is just the most boring thing in the world. I guess if you were rushing to a certain lvl 80 and below for say ...a dueler. Baal is deffinatly better. Guess we all have different play styles.

Anyway have fun guys/gals.

Lol, well you get next to no experience from most creatures in the game at my level (98). Only Baal and Diablo give you any worthwhile exp at that point. You may get more exp per run with what you are doing but you probably are not getting more exp per unit time especially if you have a good teleporter in the group.

--T