Hydra Sorces owning? Part II [a response to Dennis_Koreanguys's original thread]

[godisalone]

Well, after reading that post that basically concluded that hydra sorces are a dead class, but for reasons like sorb and stacking of res, which every ele char has to cope with, i decided to give it a shot. I traded off my fb sorc (who, with about 2 points in hydra, still killed many ppl with them from time to time) for a full out hydra sorc. The gear is as follows:

5/5 fire faceted shako
Jah'd lidless
865 def dusk coh
eth 33% hoto [:(]
armageddon fletch ammy
2x sojs
grim spur boots
magefists
arach belt
6 bo cta/splendor shield on the switch
10x fire gcs in inv [no mods :(]
anni and a buncha small scs with +life

Currently lvl 63 [she wears gloom right now before the arach] She has been owning 90% of all nm rooms she goes into. She owns lvls 60-91 usually with ease. The only troubles so far have occured with a good bowazon [lvl 87] and my friend's 4k life barb [also lvl 87]. As of now i have 3k dmg from each hydra, though i still need about 17 pts. into fireball, and cannot yet wear arach/anni. Hydra sorce's are not at all dead and, on the contrary, are pretty damn good.

[dth]

if you get to know how to plant hydra's in the right spot they can give a lot of classes a run for the money

they're good because after the first hit most chars go into stun animation and by then 3 or 4 bolts are hitting them

however I doubt ele druid's going to be phased by a hydra sorc (cyclone armor), neither would a high fhr/life barb.

the biggest thing going for the hydra sorc is suprise factor, especially if you named your char something like "fb-pkown"

tell us your matchup analysis on these 2 chars

and skills?

Max fire mastery, Hydra, fireball, firebolt
rest into telekenisis + pre-req + tele/eshield/coldarmor ?

[Rauth]

10-15 max res> low fire damage :)

If you can avoid getting hit for like 10 minutes then you could win I guess.

[Hardcore_Virus]

Well, after reading that post that basically concluded that hydra sorces are a dead class, but for reasons like sorb and stacking of res, which every ele char has to cope with, i decided to give it a shot. I traded off my fb sorc (who, with about 2 points in hydra, still killed many ppl with them from time to time) for a full out hydra sorc. The gear is as follows:

5/5 fire faceted shako
Jah'd lidless
865 def dusk coh
eth 33% hoto [:(]
armageddon fletch ammy
2x sojs
grim spur boots
magefists
arach belt
6 bo cta/splendor shield on the switch
10x fire gcs in inv [no mods :(]
anni and a buncha small scs with +life

Currently lvl 63 [she wears gloom right now before the arach] She has been owning 90% of all nm rooms she goes into. She owns lvls 60-91 usually with ease. The only troubles so far have occured with a good bowazon [lvl 87] and my friend's 4k life barb [also lvl 87]. As of now i have 3k dmg from each hydra, though i still need about 17 pts. into fireball, and cannot yet wear arach/anni. Hydra sorce's are not at all dead and, on the contrary, are pretty damn good.

yup , i have one myself :D shes the greatest char i ve had up to now :winner:

[godisalone]

Well, in reply to both dth and rauth:
1) ele druids are no matchup so far, the first few i have dueled tele right onto me and the five hydras atop me, they get stunned and i tele away
2) Barbs with alot of vita are indeed something of a tough matchup. I have dueled 4 of them. 1 was my friend, who easily tanked me (his barb is VERY good). the others chased me while i laid hydras and teled around.
3)As of now my hydra location has been somewhat unsure. If it's an aggresive char, i lay hydras and move aroudn them. They come in and out and eventually i hit them with telekenesis and they die. If snipers/defensive chars, i lay hydras (2 or 3) at the edge of my screen. They either move back, where i repeat the process, or come to me, where 2 other hydras (and more as i cast) meet them. Melee chars: lay hydras, tele around. Only exception is the charger, who i telekenesis into my hydras.
4) Rauth, you mentioned that stacking overpowers (particularly low) fire dmg. First ofall, and this is just me, i don't think sorb/stack is the....manly...way to goabout dueling. But on the contrary to your "low" damage comment, do the math: 3k dmg per fb. 5 hydras * 3k * 3 fbs per hydra=45k dmg(i expect 4k apiece soon, with maxing fireball and wearing arach and anni). Now, i know that all 3 fbs from all 5 hydras wont hit at the same time (usually). The trappers average dmg (10k * 5 is 40k) is relative to this. Then again...a trapper is pretty easy to sorb...
5) skill distribution: im open to everything here, but this is the current plan: (20 hydra, 20 fire bolt, 20 fire ball, 20 fire mastery, 10+ meteor [ i would say 20 but, let's faceit, nobody can plan on going to 99]) As of now i'm picking between that meteor for the choice of fb, or should i put some in ES? Teleken i see no need to get up there....what does that do for me? add 20 or so [useless] lit dmg? Like i said, i wanna be open to everyone's ideas/opinions here

[Rauth]

Just too bad you're not on west or I would show you the problems with hydra sorc myself. :)

Never said max res was the "manly" way to do it, I was just saying anyone can have infernostrides or hotspurs and 1 max res item isn't exactly bm like absorb.

Quick math here. 3k per hit of hydra= 500 after pvp=125 after max res(not even counting the mdr that a lot of builds). 125 damage wont send anyone with decent life into fhr. Pretty sure you have to do 1/12 or more of their life to make them fhr. They would have to have less than 1500 life for you to get them in fhr.

My guess is you have been dueling some pretty bad people. If your friends barb has only 4k life, than he isn't the best either. When a barb has less life than my windy, he needs to work on it.

Any build can beat the average pvm-guy-dueling, but hydras just won't be able to take down experience duelers IMO. I'll hold to this until I get owned by a hydra sorc :)

[Lyrs]

if this is pubby than by all means, a hydrasorc will be viable; and since a lot of dueling goes on in pubby, there's no reason to deny the fact that a hydrasorc can be a fun and commanding character to play.

[Dennis_KoreanGuy]

Obviously hydras aren't better than cookie cutter builds, but they're still fun and can be really strong in duels if you play w/ them a long time...

The girl I mentioned in my original post played hydras since beginning of 09...

- Dennis

[godisalone]

Just too bad you're not on west or I would show you the problems with hydra sorc myself. :)

Never said max res was the "manly" way to do it, I was just saying anyone can have infernostrides or hotspurs and 1 max res item isn't exactly bm like absorb.

Quick math here. 3k per hit of hydra= 500 after pvp=125 after max res(not even counting the mdr that a lot of builds). 125 damage wont send anyone with decent life into fhr. Pretty sure you have to do 1/12 or more of their life to make them fhr. They would have to have less than 1500 life for you to get them in fhr.

My guess is you have been dueling some pretty bad people. If your friends barb has only 4k life, than he isn't the best either. When a barb has less life than my windy, he needs to work on it.

Any build can beat the average pvm-guy-dueling, but hydras just won't be able to take down experience duelers IMO. I'll hold to this until I get owned by a hydra sorc :)


Rauth, rauth, rauth. So negative. I'm tryng something new.I am not a bad judge as to what players are good and bad. I know that i have beaten manygood and bad players alike. No class is pefect. Im sure i fi made this thread about trappers, bonencs, or anytign else, you ould show e the countless imperfections that EVERYBODY faces. I never said that 'm going to top every perfectionist who comes along. My point in posting this thread is't to challenge anything but the fact that people think hydras are a useless skill. Trap dmg (on average) i LOWER than the dmg that i factored out. Why do they, after your insertion of the factor or perfect res., still do nice dmg?

[godisalone]

sorry forall theerros, my keyboard is being stubborn

[Rauth]

Hah. I'm definitely the most negative person here.

Like I said. Too bad you aren't on west. :)

I already told you why they seem to do nice damage for you. They are not useless, just like artic blast isn't useless. Its just regular fireball sorcs do much much better.

[insane_knights]

I also agree with rauth. Very unlikely will anyone with skill lose to this build although it may do well in pubs. Now aday in pubs everyperson has a cta and having more than 2k life is extremly easy. You char also lacks block and dr. A barb will just teleww you and chances are your dead. A zealer or and melee pally will just charge and hit you. Chances are your dead. A bone necro/ sorc will just stay out of your hydras reach and spam until you are dead. Windys chances are will just tele and take the bolts and nado you until your dead (which will be fast cause u lack DR). I think that this build has potential but it lacks the power needed for 1v1 duels. Pubs you might be able to own becuase other people will keep your opp occupied.

[RainofChaos220]

I agree with rauth. Hydra sorcs are awful for serious PK. And NM duels btw have THE worst duelers... real duelers duel in hell.

Hydra sorc was ok for hydra PKing on hardcore back in 1.09 (set up hydras, around TP, have the person enter it, then go to town and hostile), but in real duel it isn't anything great.

[dys0r]

Hey, godisalone, are you on USEast? If so, I'd love to duel your hydra sorc. I'm pretty sure I'm going to win the majority of the duels with either my dexazon or bone nec. Telling from your items, you have very little fhr and DR, which means all I have to do is stun you with teeth and spear you once or twice; or, spam multi with my zon until you die (my multi AR is around 8.5k, and most of them will hit you).

It's a very interesting build, though. I'd love to duel your char.

- Ter

[godisalone]

Hah. I'm definitely the most negative person here.

Like I said. Too bad you aren't on west. :)

I already told you why they seem to do nice damage for you. They are not useless, just like artic blast isn't useless. Its just regular fireball sorcs do much much better.

Rauth, i have a current 13k fb on her. It's only going up :) anyways sorry if i proposed that last post so negatively. When i need high dmg fast (rare occurence) fb works fine. I am now lvl 76 btw and doing very good still in hell

[godisalone]

Whoever made that comment on block: wrong. Switched to ss and added some dex. Chargers rarely make it past the hydras. They go in a strsight line so i knick them with at least 1 fb as well. Barbs: tele onto me, ok, i tele away. But barbs are one of the chars i have msot trouble with. Sorces often tele right into them and die, or snipe me. Remember, tho, i can snipe too. I use fb to get them into the path of hydras. Ele druids so far are easiest. I run circles arround my hydras, they get impatient and tele into it. The stun keeps em there and 9/10 it's a win (a friend's very good windy lost 4-1 to me). Bone necs give me trouble as do zons. But, no char class is perfect. Name one (elemental) class that can easily own any build. It seems like that's what a few of you think my goal is: prove that hydra sorces can potentially take out anything. I'm just proving that the build is highly underestimated.

[godisalone]

And dysor, i guess i'll duel you but like i said :P i have weaknesses. As it so happens your two chars are big weaknesses to my char. /w *moralwarfare

[Zkin]

absorb is lovely.

[Rauth]

Edit: I'll just let you figure it out when a Good windy decides to show up on east for some reason. Not sure what it is about east. Does NO ONE play windy over there or what?

[Hardcore_Virus]

IMO my hydra sorc does much much better than my full fire sorc (i m considering only non-bm dueling).So only 1 absorb item.

She is better because she has a rather defensive attack(hydra) and a very offensinve attack (fball).They combine very good because your hydra will stun most chars so you can fb them down.

I play on europe so i don't know about other realms.

Just want to say that hydra sorc is highly underestimated

[evo]

Rauth knows what he is talkin about

I mean a hydra sorc is fun but not a dominant build.. most chars aren't

I will hold this until i lose best of 7 to a hydra sorc.

[Rauth]

Evo. You're rich ;)

Make a pro hydra sorc so we can see. :)

[insane_knights]

Godisalone How is your char setup. Put on ss and put some into dex. It takes alot of dex to get 75 block. Why would charge not hit? Lol i want to see a hydra sorc that kills a pally whiel charging though. I dont think your dueling the best of chars god. A skilled pally even with only one into charge should get past your hydras. Good pallys dont charge straight at you but rather charge in circles around you waiting for an opportunity. If they charge lock you your dead also, look at your equip and tell me how much fhr you have? Im almost posititive that half of the people on this forum with only stacked resit(no sorb) can stand in your hydras for more than 5 min without dieing. With sorb on they probably heal faster than they die.

[Rauth]

I wouldn't say they could stand in hydras for more than 5-10 seconds tops. Thats not the point. The point is, hydras won't do much to a Moving char.

[dkay]

thing is fireball is both offensive and defensive. you wouldnt tele next to a hydra sorc just as you wouldnt on a fireball sorc because it'll be hurty. the splash damage makes it a killer. when i get back i plan to make one just so i can get my share of kills with rauth :)

more about fire hydra sorcs. i have had many of these in 09 and one in .10 but stopped because i saw their inneficiency. this is coming from a guy that thought hydras was the best/coolest skill in the game. unfortunetely thier synergy doesnt boost thier damage enough to compete with good competitors, though i think you can get your share of kills in games where people dont bother to move around much.

[godisalone]

Godisalone How is your char setup. Put on ss and put some into dex. It takes alot of dex to get 75 block. Why would charge not hit? Lol i want to see a hydra sorc that kills a pally whiel charging though. I dont think your dueling the best of chars god. A skilled pally even with only one into charge should get past your hydras. Good pallys dont charge straight at you but rather charge in circles around you waiting for an opportunity. If they charge lock you your dead also, look at your equip and tell me how much fhr you have? Im almost posititive that half of the people on this forum with only stacked resit(no sorb) can stand in your hydras for more than 5 min without dieing. With sorb on they probably heal faster than they die.

Sorb/stacking: bah. duel me yourself, don't have spurs, noko, and d stars do the work.
My blocking: not 75, around 50. Switching shields again, going on to a 3x jah'd headhunter
Chargers: if they circle me, telekenesis and kill. Pala's usually have low res, and if they stack, good for them. If they go right for me, yes, hydras do take them out and fb's are nice insurance
Rauth: yes, i can't compete with rauth...no'r can anyone on my realm. Give yourself a pat on da back, you're invincible
Windies: many on USeast (none, naturally, as impressive as Rauth)

[dkay]

Sorb/stacking: bah. duel me yourself, don't have spurs, noko, and d stars do the work.
My blocking: not 75, around 50. Switching shields again, going on to a 3x jah'd headhunter
Chargers: if they circle me, telekenesis and kill. Pala's usually have low res, and if they stack, good for them. If they go right for me, yes, hydras do take them out and fb's are nice insurance
Rauth: yes, i can't compete with rauth...no'r can anyone on my realm. Give yourself a pat on da back, you're invincible
Windies: many on USeast (none, naturally, as impressive as Rauth)

i thoguht tekekinesis only has a 30-50% of kb. am i wrong?

[Dennis_KoreanGuy]

Lmao Rauth is that strong?

My lightning sorc owns A LOT of windies.

Rauth you play NL West?

- Dennis

[dkay]

naw hes jublet :O
















jus kidding.. ya rauth is very good. i first met him in a pk with my mage and he owned me pretty hard. wonder why he ever added me to his f list. must be because im so sexy :O

[Olio]

3k hydras would heal anyone over level 83 with a rising sun and 75 fire resist. In general they are really easy to negate without particularly BM amounts of absorb and or max resist gear. You will be dependent upon the badness of your opponents or your substandard fireball in order to win. However the build can't be any worse than whatever sized fireball you end up with. I suspect the fully synergized fireball and the ES/fireball build are better uses of those twenty skill points though.

Olio

[insane_knights]

God ill try one of these days to get on east cause i have a freind who plays on east.

If i am i will be using a bone necro with 75 resist and no sorb. Hope i can get on.

Im not sure how a necro can lose to your char. From the looks of it you like to stand in the middle of your hydras. A skilled necro will just spear snipe you until your dead. If you then decide to get offesnive then its just going 1v1 with a fb sorc that deals less dmg and has less fcr.

Your char may be good, thats what i plan to find out. All these assumptions are only on paper. Theoretically hydra shoudnt deal any dmg to a person whith good resist.

[Rauth]

Hah. Good to know I have fans on east ;) *pats self on back*

If you would quit playing nice and use desynch charge your hammers would be more effective david :)


@dennis Yep. Ladder and nl actually.
*rauthgar2 for a duel on either.


DOES ANYONE HAVE A HYDRA SORC ON WEST I CAN DUEL?!?!? I guess I could offer a rune in return for beating me best of 7 with it.

Edit: and oh ya. If you want to telek me, you will have to be on my screen. If you can see me, I can see you, and good luck avoiding a namelock while trying to telek me.

[godisalone]

Lmao Rauth is that strong?

My lightning sorc owns A LOT of windies.

Rauth you play NL West?

- Dennis

ah. i forgot: sarcasm doesn't work wehn one is typing :) i don't know how good he is....i just judge by his attitude

[godisalone]

Hah. Good to know I have fans on east ;) *pats self on back*

If you would quit playing nice and use desynch charge your hammers would be more effective david :)


@dennis Yep. Ladder and nl actually.
*rauthgar2 for a duel on either.


DOES ANYONE HAVE A HYDRA SORC ON WEST I CAN DUEL?!?!? I guess I could offer a rune in return for beating me best of 7 with it.

Edit: and oh ya. If you want to telek me, you will have to be on my screen. If you can see me, I can see you, and good luck avoiding a namelock while trying to telek me.



Rauth what gear does your windy have on (include detail on charms and such)?

Hydra current dmg: 4.2k per fb, fball dmg: 13k lvl: 76
still to see a windy beat me :)

[godisalone]

Hah. Good to know I have fans on east ;) *pats self on back*

If you would quit playing nice and use desynch charge your hammers would be more effective david :)


@dennis Yep. Ladder and nl actually.
*rauthgar2 for a duel on either.


DOES ANYONE HAVE A HYDRA SORC ON WEST I CAN DUEL?!?!? I guess I could offer a rune in return for beating me best of 7 with it.

Edit: and oh ya. If you want to telek me, you will have to be on my screen. If you can see me, I can see you, and good luck avoiding a namelock while trying to telek me.



Rauth what gear does your windy have on (include detail on charms and such)?

Hydra current dmg: 4.2k per fb, fball dmg: 13k lvl: 76
still to see a windy beat me :)

[Rauth]

My Windy:

lvl 92
4592 life with oak and bo
max block
100fc
5.5k nado
2.5k hurricane

Gear:

Shako(shaeled)
Ss(-req/29fireres/7fhr jewel)
arach
38 hoto/wizspike(res jewel)
28 maras
6/5/2 phase blade cta/lidless
enigma mageplate
magefists
Shadow dancers(main boots)/treks(for rabies/psn nec)/spurs(for bm fire sorcys)
10fc, 13dex, 63 mana, 9resall ring.
10fc, 15dex, 61 mana, 29fire res, 19 psn res ring.
7 ele gcs with life(20-35) and 2 with fhr. Yes, I only use 9 ele gcs.
3x 5fhr/11 fire res scs
1x 5fhr/11 light res sc
1x 5fhr/5resall sc
1x 18life/11 light res sc
rest are 20life scs with minor mods.
20/20/05 anni

Think thats all.

Still have yet to see a hydra sorc beat me :)

[dkay]

rauth that cta brings back memories... :)

btw is it just me or are the forums super laggy lately?

[Rauth]

Like I would know? ;)

They are always wierd for me. Randomly not existing. Randomly giving me errors. Its great.

[vizzerdrix666]

Hey all

I have an idea to make a hydra sorc more viable. Add a widomaker and put some points in enchant or use demonlimb. MAybe u could use 120-45 instead of shako if u decide to use the widowmaker? i saw a sorc that used this set up. her ga did about 5k so she said and her hydras owned. Just my 2 cents.
W/e i think hydras can own just along with any char with enough skill and the right gear.

Vizz