View Full Version : Where have all the Amazons gone?
gods_pawn
10-11-2004, 20:01
Has 1.10 nerfed the PvP Amazon?
I mean there isn't even a guide for a pvp zon, and the only advice I've been able to find on how to make a good one is on non-ladder, due to the duped 3/20/20's and 40/15's people can bulk up on.
Is it possible? I like this challenge, methinks I want to find a PvP build that can't be nerfed by absorb (Charged Strike zons) or easily killed in 1 hit.
Good zons, while rare, do exist :)
I haven't really seen any good bowzons on ladder, since they don't have 40/15s in mass, but nonladder ones can beat a lot of classes. If you are super rich on ladder, you can get close to 40/15s and they will work just as well.
Charged strike is as hard to absorb as you make it. Tstrokes+griffon+facets give a nice -res counter to absorb. Most people don't bother absorbing, much less stacking the res required to make up for -res. Absorb without stacked res is useless. Charged strike zons are also decent tanks with dodge skills. I see them take out just about everyone in a game all the time. As for the duelers that go 2wisp+tgods+gangel+4ptopaz shield, just have a backup char that cannot be absorbed, or just leave them to have fun absorbing by themselves.
I have heard some things about a poison/arrow hybrid that did great as well. Haven't seen an effective one personally, but 60k poison jav sounds hurty.
RainofChaos220
10-11-2004, 23:48
Bowzons in 1.10 are even worse than trappers. 99% of them are TG'ers, TH'ers, NK'ers and portal shooters. However pretty much every class counters them with ease:
ES Sorc Can take their dmg (esp bugged ES ones)
Barb Can out tank and teleport on them for kill
Wind Druid.. well Wind Druid > Zon
Necro.. Stack Revive+decrep.. next?
Pally: Charge+smite
Assn: I'd like to see a good WW sin ever lose to a zon
Also Enigma and sanctuary are two items that completely own zons.
Edit: And Rauth Psn Zon isnt great.. their psn dmg is huge, but over a long time. Ever heard of Death's gloves? They reduce psn duration by 75%. That alone counters any psn char completely.
Bowzons in 1.10 are even worse than trappers. 99% of them are TG'ers, TH'ers, NK'ers and portal shooters. However pretty much every class counters them with ease:
ES Sorc Can take their dmg (esp bugged ES ones)
Barb Can out tank and teleport on them for kill
Wind Druid.. well Wind Druid > Zon
Necro.. Stack Revive+decrep.. next?
Pally: Charge+smite
Assn: I'd like to see a good WW sin ever lose to a zon
Also Enigma and sanctuary are two items that completely own zons.
Edit: And Rauth Psn Zon isnt great.. their psn dmg is huge, but over a long time. Ever heard of Death's gloves? They reduce psn duration by 75%. That alone counters any psn char completely.
Ever heard of a Psn/CS Hybrid? Probably not Lol I've been toying with the idea...something like Max Psn and Synergie and CS+LF+w/e is left.
Mooker899
11-11-2004, 01:09
Rain uh ever heard of a godly zon? Wind Druid are easy for a good Zon who knows what their doing lol, multi shot they're minnions stacking and then g'a kills them easy.
Also good WWsins do die to Zon's, actually the #1 WW Assasin on UsEast has died to one. :thumbsup:
-MoOk
ARG!
When I dueled alot of ww-sins, I noticed that if I get a few arrows in their direction, they can't move because of:
block, fhr, kb, and if they try to tele or df and get hit before it casts.
Multi's will negate the windy's minion stacking and without stacking, 5k life goes fast when they cast slow and have bad fhr. R/w + multi+5k+ga+2k+life > windy IMO.
I never lost to any necro 1on1 constantly unless they used depry. Even then, if I got a critical and a hit or 2 they would die anyways. Add on the fact that without the golem stacking they wouldn't get near any good bowazon. Without that golem most duels will end up with the necro dying before getting a shot off or 1-2 screens away.
gods_pawn
11-11-2004, 02:25
I'm assuming this is all non-ladder talk?
luis, I believe it was your post I read before on "how to make a pvp zon own everything" and you seem to be the most knowledgeable.
ed/ias jewels are a rare thing on ladder, and go for a good amount. I mean I'm sitting comfortabley, but 4 Ists a pop isn't worth it to me.
Yeah, non ladder.
Bowazons have a few crucial weaknesses but build correctly, they can take many top builds effectively such as windys, necros, and most sorcs.
Mehatesmaphack
11-11-2004, 03:01
wwsins can't kill my mule zon even once let alone a godly one.
Mehatesmaphack
11-11-2004, 03:03
Yeah, non ladder.
Bowazons have a few crucial weaknesses but build correctly, they can take many top builds effectively such as windys, necros, and most sorcs.
luis my friend is making a bowzon and wants some help. Can you post a brief guide on your set up and build? thx
Ok, I'll tell you everything you need to know to make a good bowazon.
Helm:
You must use either:
x/15ias shako
120-45 (bone visage preferably since it looks cool)
I would go with 120-45, and then have a plain 15ias shako in stash. If you refuse to use 120-45, then go with a 40/15 shako.
Rings:
1-2 ravens
optional +dex, +strength, resist ring
ammy:
catseye & highlords (highlords is more useful vs barbs/necros/windys and cats is more useful vs sorc's)
Boots/Gloves:
the two pairs of gloves you need are:
20ias with KB (optional stats: +2 passive, +stats, +resist)
Gores (useful all around for ow and cb-even if nerfed it does alot vs a high life build like a barb) These paired with some dracs is good vs ES sorc's for some nasty OW and even vs Ele druids since you will be running and shooting the entire time.
Also keep either some treks or a rare 30rw 20fhr +stats/resist boot in stash.
Bow:
You really have to have a wf to compete in pvp nowdays, even if you hate it, keep one in your stash vs a high life build (barb/windy) and some necros. Get 08 if you can, sick dex.
For 7 frame GA, the best would be a Mat of quickness/butch/evis, but if you can't afford/get a hold of any of those, an HoJ will do fine. Besides that, it looks cool, is good for leveling, and that Holy Fire may even get you a kill, if you're lucky.
Switch:
titans/ss AND cta (1+shield optional but not needed since maxblock/dr on switch is better and saves space)
Stats:
Ok, I've tried a vita, dex, and vita/dex build and the vita/dex build wins hands down.
I suggest getting just enough strength to use wf with anni (so you throw arrows).
Dex builds have little life, vita builds have low damage, but a mix of both has sexy results:
My build was: 2.6k life, 5.5-5.8 max dmg (cta)
I've seen other builds get like:
(dex build) 1.6k life, 6.5k max damage (cta)
(vita build) 3.5k life, 4k max damage (cta)
1.6k life means your dead pretty fast vs any decent physical damage build, and the vita build does too little damage. I could go into detail of why that is, but the vita/dex build is just so much better, who doesn't like to survive a ww or two?
For your stat placement, try to get to near my stats, otherwise try to get around 120ish vita, 300 dex. Tweak it depending on your endgame gear.
It really depends on your charms.
Charms:
I reccomend getting around 40 r/w from charms, the best being 3/5rw/20s, next 100/5's (if you don't mind psn).
1 anni
The rest should be 32020's (or 20 life scs) with maybe a few fhr scs if you want.
Resist don't really matter for a zon since its pretty hard for a sorc to get near a good zon, meaning they have to aim from far, meaning you can move out the way easily. Most have around 2k life and 2k energy, which isn't hard for a 5k GA at 8 frames with kb/ow/cb to rip through. Multi will keep sorc's from spamming from far by forcing them to tele.
Besides sorcs (most are pretty easy for a zon and you'll still beat a good one consistantly), FoH is your only other elemental threat (as in possibility to kill you) and they aren't that hard since you have evade/avoid and it will usually take 2 to kill you if your a vita/dex build. Arrows also puts em into block animation, kb/ and fhr.
Biggest threat: WW barb and a wwsin or kicker that uses traps/mb effectively. Both builds are nearly impossible to beat.
Other threats: Melee pallys that realize they have charge AND smite, or ones that use massive desync. However you can kill most of these with Lightingbolt+KB. Also good windys can be a problem, but I usually went 50/50 with really good ones.
Other than those, if you reach similar stats to mine, only bm will get you such as a bm necro that uses depry+mass bonewall/prision.
People always say that necros easily kill zons, but I found them pretty easy with my old zon. It takes 3 hits to kill it, if they can get through the 68% dodge, while i fire 7/8 frame GA with kb/ow/cb. Do the math, most have 1.5k life, those go down easy, better ones with 3k+ life are much harder but still you will win. You do about the same damage (unless they us ss, but that usually means no max block, or lower life, or low enough damage to let you take another hit) but much faster, you shoot a projectile thats is fast AND homing with a raduis attack (multi).
IMO, a good bowazon is a necro killer.
ALSO PUT 1 POINT INTO LIGHTING BOLT!
IT IS SO UNDERESTIMATED THAT IT IS RIDICULOUS.
A total of 3 points gives you:
Jab: fast attack useful vs bowazons, and gives you the option to "melee" for fun, you'd be suprised at how many barbs/pallys you can beat.
Lightingbolt: 2-3k max lighting damage, unblockable, fast. Paired with LB it is dangerous. People will end up thinking your a hybrid, which is a good thing. Makes people change gear making your arrows better, and gives you the element of suprise.
Any more questions? Just ask.
d/a/e I suggest getting to at least:
55/65/40
More is better.
8 frames with wf will be the best choice in most situations except the ones I listed eariler.
A cruel will still work on most builds, just takes longer. But vs say a barb, its basically bending over. You must use a wf vs a barb to have any chance at all.
Major Points are:
-Max GA, good investment into multi, 1 point Jab and LB, massive passives (d/a/e/critical)
-SS/titans and a cta are necessary, no +1 shield because block/dr is better on switch than a little bit more life/duration
-wf>all but a godly rare. 7 frame bows are only necessary vs say a javazon to keep em from getting close. It can also blocklock/fhr people, apply cb/ow/kb more.
-IAS/ED set up is probably the best, I listed more options like a 15ias shako above.
-120-45 + 160-60 + wf + cats/highlords + verdungos + ravens/stat,resist ring + gores + dracs is the best overall gear IMO-- fast, powerful with good OW and some cb. Add ss with titans or cta and you're a tank.And there you have it, he's posted this same bit of info a couple times.
I'll probably write a pvp bowazon guide soon cause I've had to answer similar questions alot of times now.
Better that people make decent zons instead of trash tp'ing town hugging ones.
Mehatesmaphack
11-11-2004, 07:25
I'll probably write a pvp bowazon guide soon cause I've had to answer similar questions alot of times now.
Better that people make decent zons instead of trash tp'ing town hugging ones.
hmm you build isn't exactly what I had in mind. Do you think it's worth it to get some res scs? and maybe use coa with 2 40/15s? With the res bonus from coa,rare boots, charms, and the fhr and dr from coa and verdungo a bow zon can probably tank a few hits instead if dying in 1 hit to all non-magic damage attacks.
CoA has too high requirements and there is little +strength from gear.
With optimal gear, your resist in hell should be well into the negatives so resist scs will do little.
If you play for a bit, get used to aiming, sorcs will go down fast. GA is the best missile in the game IMO: long range, homing, can't be negated, fast, damage modifiers, work well with kb.
Even if you do get maxed resist, you will at most be able to take 1-3 FB's and 1-2 lighting's (cold attacks don't matter since cold mastery is basically impossible for a bowazon to stack up against and skill be able to kill-- plus you should wear two ravens anyways). Factor in that you will be lacking alot of damage and speed to obtain max resist and the small tanking ability is diminished.
The thing about bowazons is that you're not supposed to get hit. Its basically the opposite play of a barb where you usually play aggressive and are able to tank.
And don't forget passives too.
---
Also like to add that I will be releasing a pvp bowazon guide in a few days.
Mehatesmaphack
11-11-2004, 08:59
CoA has too high requirements and there is little +strength from gear.
With optimal gear, your resist in hell should be well into the negatives so resist scs will do little.
If you play for a bit, get used to aiming, sorcs will go down fast. GA is the best missile in the game IMO: long range, homing, can't be negated, fast, damage modifiers, work well with kb.
Even if you do get maxed resist, you will at most be able to take 1-3 FB's and 1-2 lighting's (cold attacks don't matter since cold mastery is basically impossible for a bowazon to stack up against and skill be able to kill-- plus you should wear two ravens anyways). Factor in that you will be lacking alot of damage and speed to obtain max resist and the small tanking ability is diminished.
The thing about bowazons is that you're not supposed to get hit. Its basically the opposite play of a barb where you usually play aggressive and are able to tank.
And don't forget passives too.
my firend is rich so price is not an issue for him. coa= 30 res, imp shanks = lots of res,anni=20res,ravenspirtal=15 res,anya quest= 30 res, and 14 5 res scs should give him maxed res in hell after any bug.
I can aim ga pretty well but a lot of the top sorcs,necs,barbs,etc on west can literally take hundreds of gas.(espeically those tank eshield sorcs with full dr,block.) and some of them can aim like human aa. It's hard to go evenly agaisnt them if you die in 1 hit every time.
never ever had any trouble in pub duels but...... as chris knows...
"ETH"spirit. bone necro
only time i can beat him is when he uses darkforce spawn. when he has ss its game easy. maybe im not the best zon in the world but its really hardto knick him when he has max dr max block and very high bone armor. he goes easy on me most times and doesnt boneprison golum stack unless i ask him to.
though i think i d to a lot better with cta :) only 1200 life without cta currently
absol. brute. ww barb
very hard even with his 56k. unfortunetely he just easily ww name locks me and lets the dysync kill me off. even without it if he tele ww im usually dead =/. i figure i wouldnt do any better if he had cable or if i was to go toe to toe with blobs.
just dueled recently...
a good hammer din forgot the name.
dysync hammers are a pain even for a zon. fortunetely i found a way to actually somewhat get the upperhand against dysync hammerdins. i just cast valk and shoot in the direction shes moving towards since she has AI and self seekingly homes on the hammerdin.
usually against charger/smiter i just shoot ga from long distance and when they get close i use a combo of lite bolt and jab when they are running. (your right luis lite bolt is VERY useful. almost 2k damage)
i think i can go pretty consistant when dueling wwsins. biggest problem is the psn (-77 psn resist) but if i slap on a carrion/trek/atma scarab im pretty ok. also most wwsins i duel dont short ww for some reason.
windies are pretty hard for me mainly because they use doom zerker. the hurricane is a pain too since i have negative resist but if i spent more time on the zon i could buy some cold resist life scs.
some ES orb sorc was very good against me. he had like 3k mana i think and took wayyyyy toom any ga's. though i think if i used a 160 cold resist monarch id do a lot better since it takes him a long time to kill me even with negative resist.
trappers arent too bad. most refuse to use ss and the ones that do just take a little bit longer. i rarely get hit by lite sentries and if i do then i can take about 1 hit. :P just pelt em from long distance. most times i use wiz spike + ss on switch for more resist.
wow this is getting long..
overall good agressive necros and MANY barbs with nice charms can get the zon messed up pretty badly. other than that if the guy is "good mannered" (no life tap,doom) i can go toe to toe.
my zon is a bit below average (compared to zons like luis') but i still find him very effective. just need better charms. i do 4900 damage with 61 DS no psn (i hate the green color) 1200 life and 200ish mana. decent zon and could be better with a cta and more lvling but ill take my time on improvement. too much into my upcoming wwsin and lib.
well ive rambled on for abou t 5 minutes. if uve bothered to even read all this... <3
dk~
We need to duel david :)
I managed to beat chris' telewalk zon most of the time, but I think your gear is better than his(and you're not on dialup). He does have cta though I'm pretty sure.
Angelus Meritae
11-11-2004, 18:15
I've faced a TON of bowazons and javazons that still own, guided arrow still smokes people along with charged strike and jab, and as if the dodging skills aren't annoying enough (beleive me its not funny when you see the Zon go WHOOHA when you hit her and do absolutely no damage)!
darius_paul
11-11-2004, 19:38
I've faced a TON of bowazons and javazons that still own, guided arrow still smokes people along with charged strike and jab, and as if the dodging skills aren't annoying enough (beleive me its not funny when you see the Zon go WHOOHA when you hit her and do absolutely no damage)!
:clap: :clap: :clap: :winner:
Mehatesmaphack
11-11-2004, 21:16
We need to duel david :)
I managed to beat chris' telewalk zon most of the time, but I think your gear is better than his(and you're not on dialup). He does have cta though I'm pretty sure.
I don't think he has enough frw to beat you but i might be wrong.
Frw is definitely helps for beating windy. If you aren't fast enough, the initial nado after namelock will get ya.
my firend is rich so price is not an issue for him. coa= 30 res, imp shanks = lots of res,anni=20res,ravenspirtal=15 res,anya quest= 30 res, and 14 5 res scs should give him maxed res in hell after any bug.
I can aim ga pretty well but a lot of the top sorcs,necs,barbs,etc on west can literally take hundreds of gas.(espeically those tank eshield sorcs with full dr,block.) and some of them can aim like human aa. It's hard to go evenly agaisnt them if you die in 1 hit every time.
CoA is a bad choice for a zon because it requires way too much strength.
If your friend wants resist try a 40/15 kira's or a 45ias 40ish resist helm.
Otherwise all damage gear is much better.
Sorc's will have a hard time hitting any decent zon, and good ones will take out the sorc first.
At long range with similar aim, I'd take GA over any other attack since it has damage modifiers and kb. Multi is also useful since it has a radius attack. Factor in the long range of both of these attacks and any sorc will have a hard time beating you from range. If they get in close, GA auto aims for you so you can just do run-shoot-run (around them).
Just don't see enough good zons on west :(
How does your zon do vs doom users(windys/barbs/pallys) luis?
id have more frw charms but then id have very low life. unfortunetely 3/20/20s and 3/20/5s are expensve :( i cannot give an accurate description of how well a zon would do overall since all my stats are underaverage to a competitive zon.
btw nice dueling ruath today ;O
almost fell in the hand sof the mighty quill rat. :)
Doom is hard for a zon to beat but its beatable. A strong ww tele barb that uses doom is overkill. Doom will help a melee pally's chances but the zon still can win.
Doom on a windy means slow fcr = gg windy.
Not always. I can have a 100fc doom setup. 20fc circlet/1.08 valk and caster amy would make up the fc from hoto nicely. I figure it would help a windys chances a lot vs a really rich/good zon.
I to save you from those nub quill rats by killing you david ;)
Hard to come by a good druid caster ammy.
Face it rauth, zon>windy.
The end :P
Mehatesmaphack
12-11-2004, 03:59
CoA is a bad choice for a zon because it requires way too much strength.
If your friend wants resist try a 40/15 kira's or a 45ias 40ish resist helm.
Otherwise all damage gear is much better.
Sorc's will have a hard time hitting any decent zon, and good ones will take out the sorc first.
At long range with similar aim, I'd take GA over any other attack since it has damage modifiers and kb. Multi is also useful since it has a radius attack. Factor in the long range of both of these attacks and any sorc will have a hard time beating you from range. If they get in close, GA auto aims for you so you can just do run-shoot-run (around them).
You are right I don't like the high str requirement either but I remember reading about a build here with coa that seemed pretty impressive in numbers.
I don't know about east but on west i dueled regularly with my no block,dr,eshield fb sorc for a couple of months. I don't quite remember losing to any zon more than 50%. I was almost always able to get them into a fb lock before they killed me even if they did enough damage to 2 hit me and had 200%+ frw. It wasn't rare for them to tank me but rarely without me getting them into dodge locks with fbs. Really strong eshield,dr,block sorcs can easily tank more arrows than godly barbs and with faster teleport and stronger attacks they really have no reason to lose to zons. I've dueled many sorcs who can aim better than autoaim.(also they know how to aim ahead unlike aaers.) My friend's 2k life/mana sorc with full block dr and good fhr can easily tank 7k gas and no zon even running in zig zag non stop with high frw can avoid getting hit for more than a few seconds when he's playing well.
Mehatesmaphack
12-11-2004, 04:03
Hard to come by a good druid caster ammy.
Face it rauth, zon>windy.
The end :P
imo decent zons > any ww sin, but decent windies> any zon easily with doom or not.
Why a zon beats a windy:
Multi negates summon stack.
5k+GA + KB + OW @ 8 frames with good r/w > 5k life, 42 dr, max block
However, you need a good connection otherwise you won't last.
The end.
ES sorc's can tank alot of arrows, but not more than a 6k, max block, max dr ww barb to me. 4k mana with 95% ES and max telek won't take 8 frames of ranged, homing 5-7k damage forever.
CoA is a bad choice because with all that strength you could get alot more damage or life instead. Resist are less important than damage and life for a bowazon and 15 more DR won't offset the lose of life/dex.
A pure wwsin wont beat a good zon, however a hybrid ww or kicker with traps will effectively negate the zon's range advantage.
Mehatesmaphack
12-11-2004, 04:59
Why a zon beats a windy:
Multi negates summon stack.
5k+GA + KB + OW @ 8 frames with good r/w > 5k life, 42 dr, max block
However, you need a good connection otherwise you won't last.
The end.
ES sorc's can tank alot of arrows, but not more than a 6k, max block, max dr ww barb to me. 4k mana with 95% ES and max telek won't take 8 frames of ranged, homing 5-7k damage forever.
CoA is a bad choice because with all that strength you could get alot more damage or life instead. Resist are less important than damage and life for a bowazon and 15 more DR won't offset the lose of life/dex.
A pure wwsin wont beat a good zon, however a hybrid ww or kicker with traps will effectively negate the zon's range advantage.
I can assure you that there are sorcs out there who can tank more arrows than barbs. My own newly built eshield,dr,block fb sorc can tank more hits than my own 6k+ life,max dr,block barb mainly because a sorc doesn't ever need to run therefore she always has full block. There are much better equiped and built sorcs out there. one of my friend's sorcs has 2k life without oak and 2k+ mana, full dr and block. he has 67%+ eshield which means his life orb only takes less than 1/3 of dealt damage. 2k life with 67%+ eshield means 6k+ life. Mana isn't really a problem since the sorc can just tele away and regen and most cheapasses just take mana pots anyway. It's also a lot easier for the sorc to regen life with hoto since she's not taking a lot of actual damage not mentioning the sorc doesn't have to ever run.
a good aggressive sorc will chase a zon non stop giving her no time to shoot more than 1-2 arrows at a time and with some good anticipation,good aim,and really fast tele locks it's not really up the zon to decide when she's gonna die.
I seriously don't see how good wind druids can lose to zons more than 50%. Once a druid lands on top of the zon it's pretty much over and it's not all that hard to overcome desynchers by teleing ahead of them. If the druid teles in a straightline non stop he might have some trouble but no intelligent druid would do that. A druid should recast his oak and bear as soon as they die and life tap really isn't a problem since normally as soon as the zon gets hit she's done for. If the druid just wants to be cheap he can just use doom.
I've never died to a zon with my druid and my druid only has 4 gcs and 20 fhr. Top druids usually have max block,6k+life,6k damage,max dr and decent fhr. Only common sense is required for a well equiped druid to beat zons.
Most hybrid sins will get killed while laying traps not to mention even pure trappers have trouble catching zons with mb+traps. They can' tank nearly as well as barbs,sorcs,necs,etc. Most of them use dual claws therefore low dr and block.
You wouldn't need a decent caster amy. 9-10fc would be fine with valk. Plenty of those around. Either way, the zon is slowed to below 8fpa. I can't see any chance for the zon vs a 5k life 42 dr windy using doom. The druid will be on you in seconds(if I can manage to get on them in a few seconds, a cable windy will take half that). Eventualy nados will connect with hurricane/ravens causing dodge. I agree that a good zon will kick the crap out of most windys, but good cable ones should win, and doom just makes it pretty hopeless for the zon.
Multi Does stop minion stack, but Not before the windy teles on top of you, starting a namelock/spam cycle that is hard to get out of. Once a doom windy gets on you its pretty much over anyway.
Strategy for zon vs ES sorc might be to just to stack up on psn charms and multi them to 1 life. People might cry bm psn, but oh well.
Arg. Wish we were all on same realm so I could see a pro zon for myself.:)
David is pretty good skillwise, but doesn't have the expensive gear to even things out.
Mehatesmaphack
12-11-2004, 05:26
You wouldn't need a decent caster amy. 9-10fc would be fine with valk. Plenty of those around. Either way, the zon is slowed to below 8fpa. I can't see any chance for the zon vs a 5k life 42 dr windy using doom. The druid will be on you in seconds(if I can manage to get on them in a few seconds, a cable windy will take half that). Eventualy nados will connect with hurricane/ravens causing dodge. I agree that a good zon will kick the crap out of most windys, but good cable ones should win, and doom just makes it pretty hopeless for the zon.
Multi Does stop minion stack, but Not before the windy teles on top of you, starting a namelock/spam cycle that is hard to get out of. Once a doom windy gets on you its pretty much over anyway.
Strategy for zon vs ES sorc might be to just to stack up on psn charms and multi them to 1 life. People might cry bm psn, but oh well.
Arg. Wish we were all on same realm so I could see a pro zon for myself.:)
David is pretty good skillwise, but doesn't have the expensive gear to even things out.
antidotes and anti poison items > poison damage. It doesn't take an eshield sorc to kill zons anyway. Mine did fine while getting 1-3 hitted since the zons almost always died in 1-2 hits.
My friend's fb sorc can own full games of godly zons while slow missled. He almost never dies to them. Necros with mad skillz such as nx-crisis and eternalspirit can kill most zons easily with just spear(no prison,golem,etc) while slow missled.
never dueled a fireball es sorc. guess were going to have to do some testing chris :O but im guessing the damage will be a bit low. whench_orber (think that was his name) had like 3k mana (so he says) but had somewaht low orb damage.
luis u mentioned 5k life and it caught my eyes so fast. ioono if hexes returned or anything but ive never seen a zon with 5k life with just bo O_o
yes all a decent necro has to do is very agressive. "ETH"spirit is living proof of that :|
rauth and luis should try dueling on open :O
Mehatesmaphack
12-11-2004, 05:49
never dueled a fireball es sorc. guess were going to have to do some testing chris :O but im guessing the damage will be a bit low. whench_orber (think that was his name) had like 3k mana (so he says) but had somewaht low orb damage.
luis u mentioned 5k life and it caught my eyes so fast. ioono if hexes returned or anything but ive never seen a zon with 5k life with just bo O_o
yes all a decent necro has to do is very agressive. "ETH"spirit is living proof of that :|
rauth and luis should try dueling on open :O
lol whoever hosts will have a huge advantage because of rauth's connection. If you thought "eth" was good at that you haven't seen "temp" duel.(he's not as good overall.)
If you wanna test it we can do it right now.
tommaorw chris. i was forced to uninstall d2 because i gotsata get studying for psychology. if rauth is good with zons (which im sure hes not :P) tell him to go on my acc and u guys can test away~
maybe u can stand tehre and he can shoot u with his hoj (yes he forced me to equip hoj matri on my zon :() and see how many shots it takes for your mana pool to run out
Mehatesmaphack
12-11-2004, 06:04
tommaorw chris. i was forced to uninstall d2 because i gotsata get studying for psychology. if rauth is good with zons (which im sure hes not :P) tell him to go on my acc and u guys can test away~
maybe u can stand tehre and he can shoot u with his hoj (yes he forced me to equip hoj matri on my zon :() and see how many shots it takes for your mana pool to run out
That's what I had in mind anyway. You can't see the full potential of an eshield sorc when she can't even teleport with 2k ping.
Edit: Posting isn't studying you loser.
Well a 6k dmg GA should take around 400-500 mana per hit and get 25 damage through (if 95% ES) before DR.
The sorc can block this, but its only a matter of a few hits before they are out of energy and their life is low. Don't forget about OW either and if a sorc wants to play cheap and run to regen or mana pot every time they are hit, the zon can just add a few psn scs.
With a windy, teleing ontop of a zon doesn't guarentee a hit since if they are running, they will probably be out of your range when you cast a tornado, given a good amount of r/w.
Mehatesmaphack
12-11-2004, 06:28
Well a 6k dmg GA should take around 400-500 mana per hit and get 25 damage through (if 95% ES) before DR.
The sorc can block this, but its only a matter of a few hits before they are out of energy and their life is low. Don't forget about OW either and if a sorc wants to play cheap and run to regen or mana pot every time they are hit, the zon can just add a few psn scs.
With a windy, teleing ontop of a zon doesn't guarentee a hit since if they are running, they will probably be out of your range when you cast a tornado, given a good amount of r/w.
I doubt a decent sorc would just sit there and let you shoot at her all day.
a windy with some common sense will try and tele ahead of a desynch zon. also when a zon is running she's not shooting. doom > frw
Haha.
The aura is so cool!!
Anyone dueling me with me hosting on open, will have 200-300 ping while I will have 20-30. Not exactly fair, but then, I always have 350+ on bnet and no one cuts me any slack. ;)
Luis is right about the tele thing. I have to tele on a good zon multiple times to get a kill sometimes, but once the initial namelock is landed, its pretty easy to continue namelocking. Eventualy hurricane/ravens will cause them to dodge and they will take a few nados.
I doubt a decent sorc would just sit there and let you shoot at her all day.
A decent zon won't let a sorc (besides orb) hit em.
O and GA moves pretty fast and is homing, if the sorc gets close enough the zon is at an advantage since there is no need to aim and also at far ranges with equal aim, a zon will also have the advantage since multi+ga are better IMO than fb.
Gah. We could have chris use his sorc vs davids zon to see but hes on dialup. :(
Im on east and my zons been stripped for a while now.
Mehatesmaphack
12-11-2004, 08:00
A decent zon won't let a sorc (besides orb) hit em.
O and GA moves pretty fast and is homing, if the sorc gets close enough the zon is at an advantage since there is no need to aim and also at far ranges with equal aim, a zon will also have the advantage since multi+ga are better IMO than fb.
Then there's either no decent zon on west or there's no decent sorc or nec on east.
It's true that it's not the easiest thing in the world to catch a zon with a lot of frw and good passives but it's far from impossible. Espeically with an eshield sorc that can tank a ton of gas and can tele and shoot at 8 fps. The sorc must be really horrible not to be able to land a hit and 1 hit is all she needs. The sorc can put constant pressure on the zon by teleing on top, ahead, around the zon it's nearly impossible for the zon to shoot gas wihtout taking a huge risk. Not to mention there are lots of attacks in the sorc's arsenal such as firewall,hydra,blizz,ts,nova,charged bolts,etc which can all easily destroy zons with horrible res. It's possible to kill a fully desynched vigor charge hammerdin by teleing next to or on top of them and fb lock and I have done it many times. I'm sure if sorcs can do that to vigor charge dins they should have no problems doing it to zons.
with equal gear and connection and if the sorc is a block/dr build,any decent sorc who knows how to do more than tele away and spam should at least go evenly against the zon if not better. Also the outcome of this match up with equal gear and connection is mainly determined by how skilled the sorc is and the zon can only do so much.
Light sorcs have even more of an advantage because of ts and charged bolts. Also lightining is the fastested projectile in the game so it work very well with name lock.
I've been using bowazons from .08 till now. and in my dualing experiences the only thing a good bowazon should have trouble against is:
1. Wind Druids
2. Charge Pally's
3. Minion Neccy's
Dont' even bother with these clasess its a lost cause.
ww sins and barbs are about 50/50 depending on how good they are. But with eough fr/w they should never get inside you screen.
One thing to note is go 3/20/5 over 3/20/20 any day. Scince most chars have enigma and you should have 160/60 armour, fr/w is your only chance and being able to run will save your life alot more than having more of it.
Neccy's who decrep ya, Slow Missle 'em and use cats eye for every char, dont bother with high lords you should have 70 dead / crit strike anyway.
Note: you dont need 3/20/5 try for 3/x/5 you dont need AR for GA in 1.10.
yes milky but you do need ar for those pesky minions (with multi ;))
also windies are beatable. ive noticed telebarbs arent on that list. what happened to thoseO_o. your telling me youve never fought a decent barb ever since 08?you ever been wwlocked/desync? happened to me just yesterday lol O_____o
unless the necro uses decrep/prison minion stackking can get pumbled by multi. ive killed my share of minion stacking necros.
Originally Posted by David
The aura is so cool!!
ahhh.. i knew this quote would haunt me soon or later..... T-T owned
I posted about the helm on zon forum sometime back and I am telling you guys my kill rate went way up. I switched from 45/120 w 29 life to 40/15 Guillaume's, rest of my gear is usually 6o/160 w life, highlords (cats sometimes), gores, dracs or 20 ias gloves (which keeps 8 fps attack), verdungs, rune ring and raven. I agree that most duels dont last long enough for OW to be extremely effective but 50% crushing blow. 63% deadly strike and 70% CS is. Combined with 150-180 (with cats) frw and very high passives I find this set up better than using 45/120. I know those damage mods only kick in one at a time but with these high percentages they kick in way more offten. Try it.
barbs were no contest for a bowazon in < 1.10 run and shoot, run and shoot, the barb will never catch up. i did say that
ww sins and barbs are about 50/50 depending on how good they are. But with eough fr/w they should never get inside you screen.
I think crushing blow can do wonders against barbs and windys and any high life build. 1/16 or whatever it is for arrows may not seem like alot, but 1/16 10 times in a row is hurty. I wouldn't sacrifice speed for crushing blow, but if you can get a bunch of it for little loss in dmg/life/whatever then go for it.
Question. Does dr affect crushing blow damage?
Love minion stacking necros. I come into a game to find one owning everyone. Then I host him and ruin 10-15 minutes of summoning ;)
darius_paul
12-11-2004, 20:29
Hmm interesting stuff here. I just started remaking my 08 bowazon the other day. Ill have to keep alot of what was said here in mind. :thumbsup:
Something helpful in the pvp forum? Who let that happen?!?!?
;)
how dare people do such a thing... milky if your on nl west id like for you to try dueling blobs or absolute-brute :O
i will try guiammesjkhlkzffkjz watevers face as well.
RainofChaos220
13-11-2004, 04:32
Love minion stacking necros. I come into a game to find one owning everyone. Then I host him and ruin 10-15 minutes of summoning
Smart ones will revive black souls vs druid, cast amp, use rogue merc and play very very defensively with teeth spam. Unless you SM, you're not gonna beat a nec like that on dial-up.
Mehatesmaphack
13-11-2004, 04:42
Smart ones will revive black souls vs druid, cast amp, use rogue merc and play very very defensively with teeth spam. Unless you SM, you're not gonna beat a nec like that on dial-up.
only idiots do that. most people will just sit in town until you leave. I've seen tons of summoners like that and never failed to slay them.
Dialup makes me teleport on summoners from 4 screens away. Hard to dodge that. Wouldn't have any problems slowing the nec either, but probably wouldn't need to.
Got my butt kicked by eternals old nec after you left chris :(
10:2 = nt
I dunno why hes remaking. Marrows don't seem to help his new one much.
Mehatesmaphack
13-11-2004, 06:37
Dialup makes me teleport on summoners from 4 screens away. Hard to dodge that. Wouldn't have any problems slowing the nec either, but probably wouldn't need to.
Got my butt kicked by eternals old nec after you left chris :(
10:2 = nt
I dunno why hes remaking. Marrows don't seem to help his new one much.
rofl steve's a sad little loser. I knew he had to duel you again with his old nec because he was pissed at me for making fun of him when he died to your druid. :lol: man he really cracks me up.
how dare yee lose to a necro. redeem yourself rauth.
Mehatesmaphack
13-11-2004, 10:05
how dare yee lose to a necro. redeem yourself rauth.
There's no shame in losing to one of the best necros when your on 56k. good or defensive cable druid however > necs.
There's no shame in losing to one of the best necros when your on 56k. good or defensive cable druid however > necs.
SHHHHHHHHHHHH chris! im trying to motivate rauth ;)
Haha. I'm pretty happy with killing him 2-3 times. My goal is 4 :) If he gets his new nec up to par with his old one, it Should do better. Dieing in 3 spears=nt.
Besides. Hes one of the few to even do better than ~20% vs me much less actually beat me, so I can always go to pub games for a quick self-esteem boost ;)
wwsin is doing just fine now rauth. fortunetely i find that i can beat most chars that have cta with my sin that doesnt have cta :)
starting on my lib soon. and possibily a v/t or v/c after :O
God i love this game. cept the whole "PALLY COMBAT FOR 2020 r00nEXX" part
Haha. I didn't have cta ever on my wwsin and did fine. We gotta get you one though ;)
HAH never!!!!!!!!!!!
he does fine. plus i like the +4 ondals give s me
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