Ik Full Set Finally!!!

[Glenn Cain]

Indeed, after such a long time in my life I finally gather a complete set in 5 years playing diablo on and off.

Ahhhhhhh. Now I feel relieve.

But I must ask, since so much of the slots are taken up, is there anyone here who has better stats and skills or whatnot? I mean, I've got about 4k plus damage and about 3k life after BO. Is that pretty fine, or is there any way fine tune?

[rikstaker]

Clicky (http://www.rpgforums.net/showpost.php?p=2371754&postcount=40)

if you can get more life from charms ~200,you can up you strength for more damage.I hope you followed cold's guide and built a pure ww barb.

Rik :strong:

[Glenn Cain]

Well what I have now is a conc/ww hybrid.

20 mastery
20 conc
20 ww
20 BO

all 1 point wonders and pre-req

What am I loosing out on?

[chono123]

shout would be nice for u and ur might merc.

[rikstaker]

What is the point of maxing two combat skills? when most of the time you'd be using only one?

maxing both ww & conc-leaves you with very few in shout.WW is the faster of the two-you will most likely use that most of the time & it works perfectly well.Spending 20 in a skill that is rarely used(conc) in this case isn't a good idea.

Low shout=>less defense for you,less defense for mercenary & a half bloded zerk.(shout synergises zerk)

ironically-building a pure ww barb-max ww,bo,mastery & shout-you end up with a much more well rounded build-higher defense/higher zerk damage-zerk compliments ww very well:

Its a magical attack-its synergised by shout by 200% more ed in addition to the 1point zerk ed-enough to kill the toughest physical immunes.Its is designed to handle what ww cant & thats not much-physical immunes,im & some low leech effectiveness bosses.

WW is your bead & butter.A one point conc is enough for unleechables,that too can be avoided & you can ww them with ~35% damage to mana. (http://www.rpgforums.net/showthread.php?t=238739)

Cold has got it on the spot in his guide, I can attest that- a pure ww barb(wmbs-ww,mastery,bo,shout) is the best bet for ik & a wmbs barb is the best ww barb.

Rik :strong:

[johny]

Hey, rik:

When would you publish your long-waited WW guide? I am checking this forum everyday for your guide. :)

Hurry!

[rikstaker]

soon! :p

I am trying my best to spew out a partial release (Basics+PVM-2h) hopefully in 15-20 days & I mean 15-20 days this time.

Rik :strong:

[Glenn Cain]

Ahh, ribstaker, FODTMP(Father of Damage to Mana Phyics), all hail!!

Ok, so what I feel after playing the hybrid is that it does lack so holding force against getting bashed, but as the barb is not tuned to your mana thingy, he is dependent on conc to get some good damage done at cheap mana cost. I use conc on bossed too. Why I recently recognize that ww's fast hits, if lined up nicely with some good luck could produce beautiful results against conc, I still must say it does not always happen. Of course, you got me there, I use ww most of the time. But there are enought times when I am in a tight space, or when ww just seems to be irritating to operate under certain circumstances, I just park there and hold my mouse. Perhaps its just plain down to playing style?

Your idea of damage to mana means that we gotta get hit to get mana, right? If we are not prone to getting hit, then I suppose we ain't as much mana?

Either way, it seems your suggestion is worth a try. By the way, how is your guide different from other ww guides?

[rikstaker]

Ok, so what I feel after playing the hybrid is that it does lack so holding force against getting bashed, but as the barb is not tuned to your mana thingy, he is dependent on conc to get some good damage done at cheap mana cost. I use conc on bossed too. Why I recently recognize that ww's fast hits, if lined up nicely with some good luck could produce beautiful results against conc, I still must say it does not always happen. Of course, you got me there, I use ww most of the time. But there are enought times when I am in a tight space, or when ww just seems to be irritating to operate under certain circumstances, I just park there and hold my mouse. Perhaps its just plain down to playing style?

Your idea of damage to mana means that we gotta get hit to get mana, right? If we are not prone to getting hit, then I suppose we ain't as much mana?

Either way, it seems your suggestion is worth a try. By the way, how is your guide different from other ww guides?

What are those tight spaces-what enemies? I can suggest alternatives if you provide details,still i doubt they are numerous enough to warrant a 20 point investment considering shout gives you such an attractive package & bottom line a 1 point conc-level 10(+from wrath,bc & set):320% ed is enough for those situations, since you have it synergised 200% with bo.

dmg to mana converts dmg into mana as I said from all physical & magical attacks in addition to all ele dmgs except the ones that are timed-meteor/firewal etc & the ones with an area of effect-fireball.

many areas in hell have ele dmg monsters-range archers & ele bolt mages-bolts dont do an ar check,neither do gloam lightning, bonespear & tempress magic-you will always get hit by those & your mana will be replenished.

Against physical dmg monsters(unleechables) with an ar check-the conversion is affected since with your high defense you wont get hit often,especially in early acts but their are ways around-you zerk & ww(0 defense ww) one ww is enough to get it back to full if you have a decent conversion rate-then you whirl normally-repeat if necessary.But this takes a backseat in later acts,where monster level & ar scales-you do get hit often.As a matter of fact I have done baalruns with 0% ml.

Either way, it seems your suggestion is worth a try. By the way, how is your guide different from other ww guides?

Hype, size. :uhhuh:

Seriously yes-its big-A huge 'common for all' basics section first up analysing ww factors from dmg,leech,life,defense to wias,range cb etc....Then separate sections for pvm & pvp-pvm branching into further divisions of 2handers/dualwielding/cb builds(ik)-pvp branching into casters & barbs.Each branch is huge & a full sized guide in itself.Where it differs from with other guides is-Within each branch, each weapon is shown with a detailed dmg analysis at 3-4 diferent ed%, the weapon, total & gross damage(factoring cs/ds) is shown-then they are ranked in criterias like dmg, mods, affordability, stat/level requirements etc..allowing players to choose evaluate & compare different weapons by themselves easily without having me saying 'ideal eq-gpa,coh,rends' etc & things like that (wep grading is the thing which has taken/taking the most time)...Titans in 2h-pvm are given attention as well-the total damage at 500+ strength & the leech per hit is provided with weapons that are titan viable(reaver,gpa etc..) that pretty much sums it up.One more thing its a joint effort by me & puma-who is handling the casters section.

ribstaker???-atleast you didnt call me ribcracker :cheesy:

Rik :strong:

[Glenn Cain]

Opps, my mistake.

"Rikstaker, Father of Damage to Mana Phyics"

yes.

What I meant was the little things in the game
example: monsters have AI of running away with low life, have to catch these with ww, making it draggy and kinda slow.
And other little things. Maybe you are right, these are too little to be bothered about.

You really need that 15 to 20 days for your guide to be released huh, guide makers really have alot of patiences.

So if I did not get this wrong, we are expecting a guide with the typical ww guide as the skeleton, but this time with way lots of detail on how each factor interacts with each other?

Looks like I will have to wait for your guide to be out, and another week of analysis of my options before I go anywhere. When has gaming become so systematic? lol

[mstrnicegui]

You really need that 15 to 20 days for your guide to be released huh, guide makers really have alot of patiences.
It's 15-20 days on top of the months since he announced it in the first place :thumbsup:

When has gaming become so systematic? lol
It's always been that way. Games are based on rules, and there's always been hardcore gaming addicts to dissect the game to discover those rules and how to bend them to their advantage.

[Glenn Cain]

Ah well, you guys have the time to dissect the game, the code knowledge, this and that. Poor me, still wondering if there was anyway to get high runes hard and fast other than to grind forever. Its really amazing how "game" communities can turn up with. The average parent wouldn't even understand the sort of math and logic that goes into this whole thing.

[rikstaker]

It's 15-20 days on top of the months since he announced it in the first place

Some announcement that was. :lol:

Ah well, you guys have the time to dissect the game, the code knowledge, this and that. Poor me, still wondering if there was anyway to get high runes hard and fast other than to grind forever. Its really amazing how "game" communities can turn up with. The average parent wouldn't even understand the sort of math and logic that goes into this whole thing.

We dont do dissections & never will do.Gooey was probably referring to others,though he should be a bit more clear,since he(IIRC) & myself are somwhat against the ideology of game code dissection for x,y,z reasons. Tests/dissections are fine to the point if they are done to establish facts/figures & relationships betwen factors, but usually they are taken further.The dynamism of the game environment is ignored altogether-thats why some results dont transfer well into actual gameplay.

Rik :strong:

[squigipapa]

What is the point of maxing two combat skills? when most of the time you'd be using only one?

A lot of people say this. I know that this is Hal's oppinion on it as well. But I really think it depends on play style. (whether you use one combat skill more.) I can honestly say that I do not use conc more than ww on my IK barb, and I do not use ww more than conc as well. They are 50%/50% conc is my left click, ww is my right, I ww the pack, kill most then conc the rest. I conc bosses, etc. for my personal play style investing into both of them dosen't get lost. I do use them equally.

Now, I agree that the strongest thing to do is simply max one, and leave the other at a 1 pointer. Conc, synergized by BO, as a main 'left mouse button' attack is plenty powerful at 1 point.

I just don't think saying you WILL use one more than the other so don't invest in both is fair. Maybe YOU use one more than the other... I personally use them equally.

I think all the advice given is sound, for sure, conc 1 point, invest in shout will build a great IK barb, but you won't have a horrible failure if you invest in both, and if you equally use both, then why not.

Just IMO.. ya know .. my $0.02

[rikstaker]

Takin out fiction from that we get:
Now, I agree that the strongest thing to do is simply max one, and leave the other at a 1 pointer. Conc, synergized by BO, as a main 'left mouse button' attack is plenty powerful at 1 point.

I think all the advice given is sound, for sure, conc 1 point, invest in shout will build a great IK barb.

Just IMO.. ya know .. my $0.02

:lol:
---------
..I'll let that pass papa,I am desperate to meet the release date.

Rik :strong:

[Glenn Cain]

Okok, do I simply follow cold's guide? Or do I have to wait for rikstaker's?

If rikstaker's guide is...well...improved or more precise, then shall thy guide maker divulge some information?

Lets two scenario:
1.) Current items: Full IK, double raven frost, free dwarf star ring, rare plus 1 barb skill ammy and some nitpicks.

2.) Perfect items: Full IK, all rings to choose, all ammy, all charm type with average property value.

I know the skill of the big four is bo shout ww mast, and pepper the rest, but what about the other layout according to the scenarios?

squigipapa: I did mention something about play style too. Like I said there are just some scenarios where I just wanna slow down and take 'accurate' hits without straying here and there and need mana and blah. But I'll find out for sure when I set up the pure ww ik barb build. Hang around to hear for it. Hope I get it done in a few days.

[rikstaker]

Dont wait for mine,follow cold's guide,i cant better the build.His skill setup is perfect.I'll just be building on the strategy section,dtm etc,viability of 300 strength setups..besides ik section is seprate in mine,I am just releasing the pvm2h section now,ik later.

Rik :strong:

[Zangeif]

If people like going conc/ww then by all means go for it, but I don't think we should advise it to newcomers who don't know much about barb builds. The truth is ww/conc is just weaker than pure ww, after you ww through a pack of monsters, why would you use conc to kill the last few? You can use ww to kill the last few because you're attacking at 4 frames, much faster than conc. If theres only 1 left and hes low health, and you just want to kill him with 1 swing of conc, you can still do that with 1 point in conc, it will probably be your left click anyway.

The fact of the matter is, going ww/conc does NOT give you any more versatility than straight ww. You will find yourself using ww all of the time and if you use conc you are just losing efficiency. Now I understand that a lot of members of this forum are growing tired of the same old cookie cutter builds and probably are trying out ww/conc just for a change. They probably know that it's not the best choice for pure efficiency. However, I don't think it should be suggested to new players or first time barbs who really just want to get a feel for the class. They should either go conc or ww (or some other build). Barbs don't make good hybrids, and I think the only people who choose to experiment with barb hybrids are long time players who have already tried everything else.

[rikstaker]

zangief-I couldnt have said it better myself :thumbsup: ,what the heck was I doing earlier beating around the bush.

Rik :strong:

[Glenn Cain]

Well, its not with those last few, but its with how some monsters tend to run away and scatter and using ww to attempt to chase them becomes very irritating. This sort of things, ya know? Of course, I am hoping to set up a pure ww quickly. lol.

[rikstaker]

Well, its not with those last few, but its with how some monsters tend to run away and scatter and using ww to attempt to chase them becomes very irritating.

That has scrambled me.

1.Isnt ww better at killing moving targets?
2.I said earlier,you dont have to chase them-use taunt.Besides how does conc become better at coping with moving targets?
3.You dont chase them with ww.You whirl them only after they are close.Are you talking about click-lock? You shouldnt click on the monsters,click on the ground beyond them.
4.Beside not many monsters are equipped with the "run!,farty pants here" AI.carvers & flayers I can think off.

Rik :strong:

[Glenn Cain]

Ah, then I wish that taunt was an area based 'curse'. lol.

Perhaps you can include a section on the mouse-work and the little nuances of ww?
eg how much ground ahead to click on, different paths that people employ, and perhaps specific areas that have specific for a less that usual way of ww or so on, and also the stats of ww, let say the 'hits per distance' and how the equations for ww work? These are things that I do not know much of, and perhaps it will be appreciated by many others.

[rikstaker]

Mouse work-already done.
Whirling techs-done
WW workings- done.

preliminary editing stage-just adding final touches.

Rik :strong:

[Glenn Cain]

I am looking forward for your work to be published here.