View Full Version : All things Classic!
TheCerberus
12-02-2005, 18:53
Actually Tempus, I want to point this out, but 100 strength is not needed for a barbarian to have all +skills. The set armor of the Berserker's Arsenal, Berserker's Hauberk, has +1 to all barbarian skills.
Most people seem to want Silks for the barbarians, but if you don't want to have that much strength, use the Hauberk. It has less strength and is MUCH cheaper.
I have a level 70 hammerdin, and a level 78 fireball/orb sorc, and then, my hammerdin deals 5 times more damage then my fireball, and one of my hammers and my orbs deal less damage than the hammers, don' you think that it is very embarassing?
THis is because the sorceress is my 3rd character, and my first time using it, and it does not suck, it is just below average, the potential is not used to the top. My hammerdin was my most recent character, 5th character( 1 character of each in my realm), and my pala can solo act 4 until CS, which i could not go on, and my sorc? It could not even handle the first grotesque the comes out! Isn't that embarrasing?
psycho.hatred
19-02-2005, 08:31
I have a level 70 hammerdin, and a level 78 fireball/orb sorc, and then, my hammerdin deals 5 times more damage then my fireball, and one of my hammers and my orbs deal less damage than the hammers, don' you think that it is very embarassing?
THis is because the sorceress is my 3rd character, and my first time using it, and it does not suck, it is just below average, the potential is not used to the top. My hammerdin was my most recent character, 5th character( 1 character of each in my realm), and my pala can solo act 4 until CS, which i could not go on, and my sorc? It could not even handle the first grotesque the comes out! Isn't that embarrasing?
Fireball/orb isnt that good in pvm specially in hell. considering there are monster immunes in fire and cold or both at the same time. I dont think there is any monster immune to the hammers of your hammerdin. I dont play pvm that much so i stick to 1 elemnt build for a sorc. shes good for rushing
Magic resistant ones? e.g the cow king
ANd puny mosnters? e.g grotesque wyrm
Since its too late, and my sorc is not fit for pvm or pvp, i will leave it as magic finder
Classics
19-02-2005, 11:02
As the name suggests, you aim for 1 hit kill, so, it must be a lethal shot -Invitus
Is it just me, or with a Bowazon isn't that near impossible unless you're PvPing against a really low level? I mean, the most I've EVER dished with Guided Arrow is 920 dmg (like 200 min), and that char was pretty much pure dex, and had a 15x gothic bow. And in Classic, Power>Speed in PvM or PvP is pretty much untrue... If you're throwing out MS' only at 15 frames and you're only dishing 600-700ish (which even with a good bow is high), you're going nowhere fast.
Other than that, I'm looking at Biggin's Bonnet -Taft12
Personnaly, PvMing I'd suggest some sort of knockback- it's much more worthy then 30%ED (hinting at howltusk instead of Biggins). Also, consider equipping a Clegs Gloves then the rest of Irathas. This will give you some resists + 20% attack speed, and 20% FRW, 25% slow- all invaluble to PvM.
FrozenSolid
19-02-2005, 12:49
Havent played classic for a loooong time. Can anyone list what is considered uber gear for a sorc? Is it still good ol' spectral+sigons setup?
I bought the Iron Jang Bong from a stupid barb who sold it to a NPC and i bought it for 10k.
Classics: Well, as the name suggests, sniperzon is meant to do 1 hit kills, get a crossbow. Immolation arrow can add lots of damage, or more damage to Magic Arrow if i remember correctly, you try not to provoke other monsters, thats why you have party members.
A crossbow with super big *** damage will do, better if you socket it with some Pgems that add to damage, and get some leech and knockback bow will get you some time, you try to avoid taking damage, avoiding damage is your first priorty as a sniperzon, so get Perfect Sapphires, Knockback.
Make sure you have some plus walking/rin speed boots on too.
Classics
19-02-2005, 20:15
InvitusA crossbow with super big *** damage will do, better if you socket it with some Pgems that add to damage, and get some leech and knockback bow will get you some time, you try to avoid taking damage, avoiding damage is your first priorty as a sniperzon, so get Perfect Sapphires, Knockback.
I don't know if you're aware, but the highest damaging crossbow only does 5 more max damage then Gothic Bow. It also has an high strength req. Although, you probably could get a 170 Ballista- which is damn sexy. Too bad it's slow, and can't one hit. Adding Immo Arrow is a good idea and can plug in another 1k damage. 1.7k+ is great damage for a bowazon, it just can't one hit.
I am aware of it, but the crossbows have a lower range, so its more stable, so you fancy doing 50 damage to a fallen? When you can do 1k?
(more than 50, i guess :p )
BUt you should aim for high damage, not high speed
Perhaps this build(kinda suicidish)
Str: 20 +60(or less/more ifyou can get your hands on some)
Dex: 25 +350
Vit: 20 +80
Egy: 15 + 0
THats why you have to avoid damage
You, of course, could not get one hit, but one hit with a helloda damage is better than spamming arrows while doing 100 damage(more than that i bet)
Classics
20-02-2005, 05:40
I don't think you understand me. USE A GOTHIC BOW! It does 5 less max damage, higher speed and lower req. You can still dish out the good damage! If you want to be a pure physical, then yes, go all dex. I wasn't denying Dex.
Power>Speed just isn't true. 700 damage with a 10/3 attack speed is much better then 750 damage (because that's how little more you'll be dishing) with a 15/4 attack speed.
stanzaman
20-02-2005, 20:45
-Invitus
Is it just me, or with a Bowazon isn't that near impossible unless you're PvPing against a really low level? I mean, the most I've EVER dished with Guided Arrow is 920 dmg (like 200 min), and that char was pretty much pure dex, and had a 15x gothic bow. And in Classic, Power>Speed in PvM or PvP is pretty much untrue... If you're throwing out MS' only at 15 frames and you're only dishing 600-700ish (which even with a good bow is high), you're going nowhere fast.
-Taft12
Personnaly, PvMing I'd suggest some sort of knockback- it's much more worthy then 30%ED (hinting at howltusk instead of Biggins). Also, consider equipping a Clegs Gloves then the rest of Irathas. This will give you some resists + 20% attack speed, and 20% FRW, 25% slow- all invaluble to PvM.
After discovering that my very old Bowazon (strafe/guided/multishot, started I think in 1.05) can no longer kill anything in 1.10, I decided to try to build a magezon. I'm in Hell right now, and while she doesn't clear entire screens like a hammerdin, she is able to do pretty well solo'ing act 1 hell. She does cold damage, fire damage, and some physical. She even does a little bit of lightning damage (she wears SOJs). I basically maxed freezing arrow and immolation arrow, put one point into all the passives (letting +skills take care of the rest). Right now I'm putting points into the synergies for frozen and immolation arrow. For Stats I put 60 str (to hold frostburns), 61 Dex (to hold her crossbow), about 80 energy (so far), and the rest Vit.
The gear may be a bit hard to come by. I'm using 2x SOJ's, Frostburns, 3x Saph helm, and Heavenly Garb to keep her mana up. For a belt I'm using Lenymo (I need to find a nightsmoke). Amulet is a pretty lousy +1 skills (i got a decent +2 waiting for her at 67), and the boots are gorefoot (she needs better boots). The bow is a Aberast (sp?) with Godly mods: ~200% ED, ~+20 max damage, 20% IAS, +2 all zon skills, +dex. But you can substitute basically anything you want to use (the unique repeating crossbow is really good too). If you don't have SOJ's, Manald heals would probably work good, and you may have to put more into energy.
Classics
20-02-2005, 22:13
Physical Zons CAN kill in 1.10, it's just a much harder build which requires good equipment.
The Mageazon works very well in Classic. I'd suggest to pump Pierce to 80% with + skills. You seem to have some sexy equipment on that character... Very sexy. One thing I'd suggest is to use Rogues Bow against physical immunes- the speed is just uncanny and can wipe things out quite quickly.
I personally like immolation arrow because it always hits, and the damage is massive. THe only drawback is fire immunes and high mana cost, so thats why you can have strafe as your back up skills? After using a hero editor as a try for my sniperzon, with the godly gear, i realized that sniperzons arent all the good, i tried both with gothic bow and crossbow, gothic has a better effect, because sniperzons are just too slow, i tried a 'Arnold Schwarzenegger Zon'(it seriously works!), and it just plain rocks, it is just, awesome!
20 Strafe
20 Immolation Arrow
20 Freezing Arrow
10 Exploding Arrow
10 Fire Arrow
10 Cold Arrow
10 Ice Arrow
No valkyrie needed
stanzaman
22-02-2005, 18:17
I personally like immolation arrow because it always hits, and the damage is massive. THe only drawback is fire immunes and high mana cost, so thats why you can have strafe as your back up skills?
I deal with the mana issue by havinmy magezon has about 500 mana, and as long as I'm just using immolation arrow, she won't run out of mana thanks to the casting delay giving the pool enough time to regen. Freezing arrow can drain the pool if I need to use it a lot, so I just drink a mana potion when that happens.
I need to get a Nightsmoke to see if the damage-to-mana will be more effective at keeping the blue ball full than the regen on Lenymo.
A manald heal can solve the mana problem, 7% mana stolen per hit, and life, so if you just keep on strafing(machine gun). you will be ok
Whats good equipment for a bone necro? im especiallly concerned weather to use shard or umes lament? a rare wand with fcr, +2 skills, +other skills and resists would ofcourse be the best but its very hard to find
also how much points should i put into energy and strength
Shogakusha
23-02-2005, 20:43
Whats good equipment for a bone necro? im especiallly concerned weather to use shard or umes lament? a rare wand with fcr, +2 skills, +other skills and resists would ofcourse be the best but its very hard to find
also how much points should i put into energy and strength
Standard gear that I have seen(not counting godly dupes) is wormskull, silks, 2x soj, rare necro ammy with fcr, mage fist, treads, sig shield or wall of eyeless, and any of the weapon choices you list, generally, Ume's if using bone spirit, shard if using spear, or awesome rare for either. Good luck, I just started playing non ladder classic a little, mostly when I'm bored with my expansion characters. Str should be enough for silks, and energy I'd say either base, 50, or 75. It's a personal preference thing IMO, though I think most serious duelers go base energy so they can max vitality as much as possible.
What do you think about using SOJ's to socket really nice rares?
I found a barbed shield with the following stats: 30/20 block, 29/19 prism, 5 str, 5 pdr, 79% ed, worth of using a SOJ and socketing the shield with pdia? This is on Europe chcl, and I'm sacrificing a self-found SOJ if I do it...
And another question: can shields spawn with +sork skills?
Thanks.
TheCerberus
24-02-2005, 00:38
Sorc skills cannot spawn on shields, and its a nice shield, socket it if you want. Only a grim would be better.
Silks is terrible for a PvP Nec, and in fact is terrible for most PvP builds in general. Use blickbat's, twitch, maybe Garb, all are better uniques for Nec. Use Ume's or a rare, FCR rings, rare ammy. Ume's/Rare + 2 FCR rings + FCR Ammy/Magefists + WoE > Shard + 2 SoJs + magefists + ammy/WoE.
In the perf PvP nec setup it'd only have +4 necro skills.
Shogakusha
24-02-2005, 00:45
Sorc skills cannot spawn on shields, and its a nice shield, socket it if you want. Only a grim would be better.
Silks is terrible for a PvP Nec, and in fact is terrible for most PvP builds in general. Use blickbat's, twitch, maybe Garb, all are better uniques for Nec. Use Ume's or a rare, FCR rings, rare ammy. Ume's/Rare + 2 FCR rings + FCR Ammy/Magefists + WoE > Shard + 2 SoJs + magefists + ammy/WoE.
In the perf PvP nec setup it'd only have +4 necro skills.
Sorry, don't know the difference between a good bone nec and a bad bone nec, just knew what I had seen in games. Bone necs tend to kill just about any build I'm fond of at range with spirit no matter what there gear.
stanzaman
24-02-2005, 01:36
I guess it's up to you, and how bad you need that SOJ vs. how bad your sorc needs resists. If you ask me, the most useful thing to socket is weapons (for a melee class), to put a P.Skull in it, so you may want to save your SOJ for that. Though if you are dueling, you'll almost certainly want to socket the sheild as you want maxed resists.
Also, you can't get +Sorc skills in classic on sheilds. The only way to get +skills on a sheild for a sorc is to use Sigon's (which isn't a bad choice for someone who doesn't have much else - Sigon's sheild is cheap).
What do you think about using SOJ's to socket really nice rares?
I found a barbed shield with the following stats: 30/20 block, 29/19 prism, 5 str, 5 pdr, 79% ed, worth of using a SOJ and socketing the shield with pdia? This is on Europe chcl, and I'm sacrificing a self-found SOJ if I do it...
And another question: can shields spawn with +sork skills?
Thanks.
What do you think about using SOJ's to socket really nice rares?
I found a barbed shield with the following stats: 30/20 block, 29/19 prism, 5 str, 5 pdr, 79% ed, worth of using a SOJ and socketing the shield with pdia? This is on Europe chcl, and I'm sacrificing a self-found SOJ if I do it...
And another question: can shields spawn with +sork skills?
Thanks.
where did you find the SOJ(my huntings for it have failed so far)
Fearlessone
26-02-2005, 02:33
What do you think about using SOJ's to socket really nice rares? ...barbed shield....sorc....Thanks.
Barbed shields have highest smite damage on them, and good def too, too bad it doesnt have +2 pal on it. The high pris was heavily sought after before Oct. 28 2003. And +pal skills is only char that will get add-on in classic, except of course for the sigons. For resists, I use a 3 perfect diamond tower shield on my mages, 57% resistall, slows u down by 10% in run/walk, and offers mediocre blocking.
Hardly any paladins smite in this dreary patch. A wonderful skill ruined...
Soj's were used before the patch to put pamethysts into barb weapons for even higher Attack Rating, and pskulls for dual leech - nearly required in chaos sanct runs with IronMaiden. With leech reduced in hell, if u have a source of mana leech, i would socket a super rare weapon with a pemerald for poison damage so that i could ww or zeal a pack of monsters and keep their regen down. This is because it's very hard to get poison damage on items in classic. For a sorc, u cant socket a shard or bong, and if u socket armor, the most valuable mod u can get there is with a pskull and +19% mana regen, which isnt much. So ur shield is a worthy place.
You know, you all should play an 1.06 server... Classic was ruined by 1.10 sadly and 1.06 was the best patch ever made. Gogo!
-Tempus-
26-02-2005, 22:03
You know, you all should play an 1.06 server... Classic was ruined by 1.10 sadly and 1.06 was the best patch ever made. Gogo!
i still have a hard time recalling what was changed in each patch since i've been around for all of them. what patch was it where they chaged the force drop uniqs/rares. and if i recall they also messed up the mods on rares in one of those patches too. did all that happen in 1.07 (right be LOD came out) wasnt there a few patch b,c,d where that stuff was changed?
-Tempus-
i still have a hard time recalling what was changed in each patch since i've been around for all of them. what patch was it where they chaged the force drop uniqs/rares. and if i recall they also messed up the mods on rares in one of those patches too. did all that happen in 1.07 (right be LOD came out) wasnt there a few patch b,c,d where that stuff was changed?
-Tempus-
I think it was 1.07/1.08. You couldn't get 14 dex on a helm anymore, max 29 health ( or 39 with level 60 req I think ) and so on.. It was playable though because the real thrill was the unchanged rare weapon drops (well, after 1.07/1.08 I only saw one 'green-glowing' +2 skill weapon so I think they changed some weapon mods/probabilities there)
Classics
26-02-2005, 22:58
You know, you all should play an 1.06 server... Classic was ruined by 1.10 sadly and 1.06 was the best patch ever made. Gogo!
1.06 was my favourite patch, too. Bows were recently fixed, and all the characters seemed to have a perfect balance. Although, there were a few things awry AKA Javelin and Spear skills were rarely ever used. Hehe, it was kinda cool how Orb didn't have a casting delay. I think loot still existed in 1.06 non hardcore? Man, I gotta say I'd love to go back. There's still a server?
1.10 did seem to make Classic take a HUGE step backwards. It's a true shame, really. Such inbalance...
1.06 was my favourite patch, too. Bows were recently fixed, and all the characters seemed to have a perfect balance. Although, there were a few things awry AKA Javelin and Spear skills were rarely ever used. Hehe, it was kinda cool how Orb didn't have a casting delay. I think loot still existed in 1.06 non hardcore? Man, I gotta say I'd love to go back. There's still a server?
1.10 did seem to make Classic take a HUGE step backwards. It's a true shame, really. Such inbalance...
Yeah it was all good. Even without any casting delays, Sorceress was never overpowered. I love that they actually required a bit of skill back then. I remember how I loved teleporting around, staticing a few times, tossing 2-3 Orbs rince and repeat. Non-stop action.
There were no immunes then which was GREAT. You could play everywhere. Sure, you were a bit handicapped vs enemies with resistances but you could play everywhere... I believe LoD all-in-all lessened the variety.
And sure, there is an 1.06 server. I don't know how to tell you where to find it without breaking any rules... We love to play d2classic yes? The location is not very far away :p
1.10 just made Sorceress and Hammerdins in Classic being able to kill everything in more or less one hit while a Barb could never solo in Hell... Bowazons even less :( I used my good friends 299 pure STR Martel HC dueler. It took forever to kill a pack of Urdars. I mean forever. Even a 200% ED 20 max damage Gothic Bow is worth nothing due to the fact that they can't kill anything and no one duels with Bowazons in HC =(
I am so angry at Blizzard!!
*tosses a newbie at Blizzard*
EDIT: You all know what is really hilarious? I never quit D2 because I got bored of it. I have been forced to quit because Blizzard constantly screwed up Classic =( You usually quit games because you've grown tired of them... But...
TheCerberus
27-02-2005, 06:06
I might try a 1.06 realm out. If the items will be good old Classic rares again...
psycho.hatred
01-03-2005, 13:54
You can pm us about the 1.06 patch, i think that doesnt break any rule.
Anyway, Id love to try a previous patch. I started playing 1.09d when i borrowed my friend's cd 2-4 years ago? dont remember. THe only good thing in .10 patch is most of the items became cheap(im pointing to dupes,). Altho some realms still price high(west and asia, dunno about europe. I play 3 nl classic realms), in east its really cheap.
Also some nice armors do drop this patch, tri res life etc. But i miss bowazons, and bvb.
TheCerberus
02-03-2005, 00:26
Are you psycho_lover from the Diablo World forums?
Psycho, I feel a bit sad with you because you missed playing actual "diablo2" :(
Fearlessone
02-03-2005, 03:53
Are you psycho_lover from the Diablo World forums?
He plays on USWest classic with this same hateful acct name. Now whether thats ladder or non-ladder, I can't remember, I play both. He apparently lets some cousin of his play his acct, which can be confusing.
psycho.hatred
02-03-2005, 11:36
yes i am psycho_lover from the old dw forums, but my new forum name there now is same as im using here. not much classic talk in the new dw now.
I play only nl in classic but played a bit ladder classic during the old d2 contest. also play xp ladder(useast).
yes, i let my cousin play my acc since he is too lazy to make one and i dont like him begging items from me. case closed. that's why i got accs on 3 realms.
WHat's wrong with using dupes? It is only after all a game. the purpose of the game is to have fun. Im having fun using dupes. makes sense?
edit: i didnt make up this name coz i want to be hated/hatred or w/e. i made this since i think it looks unique and i think it "sounds" better(much better than psycho_lover).
yes i am psycho_lover from the old dw forums, but my new forum name there now is same as im using here. not much classic talk in the new dw now.
I play only nl in classic but played a bit ladder classic during the old d2 contest. also play xp ladder(useast).
yes, i let my cousin play my acc since he is too lazy to make one and i dont like him begging items from me. case closed. that's why i got accs on 3 realms.
WHat's wrong with using dupes? It is only after all a game. the purpose of the game is to have fun. Im having fun using dupes. makes sense?
edit: i didnt make up this name coz i want to be hated/hatred or w/e. i made this since i think it looks unique and i think it "sounds" better(much better than psycho_lover).
You using dupes ruins gameplay for legitimate gamers who wish to pursue a competitive gameplay. Your use of dupes will in more than one way affect the game economy.
And no, there are about 500 "psychos" and 48 "hatreds" on the net so you are not original at all and it sounds like ****.
psycho.hatred
02-03-2005, 15:41
You using dupes ruins gameplay for legitimate gamers who wish to pursue a competitive gameplay. Your use of dupes will in more than one way affect the game economy.
And no, there are about 500 "psychos" and 48 "hatreds" on the net so you are not original at all and it sounds like ****.
Please stop this BS. just play the way you like and i play by mine.
I dont mind you being a legit player but respect others in what they want to play. Do you think it was me that caused this dupes? do you think its me that only uses them? Do you think I ****ing pk lgtimate players and say "you guys are ****ing noobs"?
believe me if no other morons are using dupes i wouldnt use em too. but that's not the case. in dueling dupes are way better and imo the only way to win against a player using dupes is to them too. its a fact that dupes are way better than lgts and using lgts is a cause of losing(besides bad builds)
Oh yeah, did i mention i help people while using these "dupes".
plz gg
Yeah, that's a great way to justify the use of dupes?
I mean, other people murder, so why can't I? I mean, in making money it's always faster money to kill someone and steal their money the 25th every month.
Live life the way you want and respect my way of living.
Bah you are not the sharpest tool in the shed now are you...
Learn to play the game in a legitimate way.
Oh, and I do think I have the right to call you this: Newbie.
Please stop this BS. just play the way you like and i play by mine.
I dont mind you being a legit player but respect others in what they want to play. Do you think it was me that caused this dupes? do you think its me that only uses them? Do you think I ****ing pk lgtimate players and say "you guys are ****ing noobs"?
believe me if no other morons are using dupes i wouldnt use em too. but that's not the case. in dueling dupes are way better and imo the only way to win against a player using dupes is to them too. its a fact that dupes are way better than lgts and using lgts is a cause of losing(besides bad builds)
Oh yeah, did i mention i help people while using these "dupes".
plz gg
Have a look :
http://www.rpgforums.net/showthread.php?t=300784
psycho.hatred
03-03-2005, 02:16
If you want me to respect your living, respect mine first.
Because I use dupes doesnt mean i ruin other people gaming This is going nowhere. I chose nl coz people here use dupes. if u play nl that's the risk. That's why blizz made a ladder, to separate the legitimate players. A huge wall that separates lgtmate and non. If i dupe or use dupes in ladder that's when i dont play fair
go chase a neko. newbie. gg.
i dont want to flame some1. i dont flame ppl and i dont think i flamed some1 from my last post. if i did sorry.
Fearlessone
03-03-2005, 05:00
This is errant reasoning. It used to be people would play closed bnet to get away from the open bnet cheats, as we saw in diablo1. Now you are saying we have to make new chars on closed bnet every ladder to avoid the World of Dupes. Using cheat items even in open isnt anything to brag about. I play other games besides diablo, where u store ur own char on ur computer. These open games usually display "legit only" descrips. If some player comes in at max lvl 150 and tears everything up in 2 seconds, the game maker often boots him out. (Yay!)
It is true that bliz made the ladder realm to get away from dupes, partly so. Other reasons include using hi lvls to rush ur new char to get them way up the ladder. Bot programs in ladder runs, in LoD, anyway, ruined that attempt. Bliz also mentioned "pollution of godly items" as a reason, in other words, twinking ur new chars. The mf bot progs, to meph and andy sure took care of that. Ladders, schmadders! who cares about ladders and who is #1. The way to get rid of dupes is to get rid of dupes.
In the opinion of many, bliz could have cleaned out many of the dupes long ago. Even with the socketing quests and soj cube formula to make sockets (and presumably this would change the # of the item, making it harder to trace) there are ways to sort out dupes and delete them. It was a political decision not to do this. There would have been an army of whiners at the tech help channel every day for months. Surely, even I would have lost some traded items, and big deal, a small price to pay.
Using dupes does indeed affect the way legitimate players can have "fun". If I play in a group that mostly uses dupes, I often have to exit that game, just can't keep up with them, even if I'm a super high lvl. In the world of classic non-ladder, there really arent that many games to choose from at some hours of the nite, so if you have to exit, that often is pretty much it, unless u go to: "Act2 plz helpme".
Let's say You and 3-4 other people in an 8 person party started their characters with using dupes in mind. They probably already had most of those duped rares lined up, and could scrimp on spending stat points on dex/str because of all those "+13 dex +14 str + 24%fhr +38 life +30% lr and fr" items. They PLAN their chars based on the World of Dupes. So you get some sorc in the game with 1300 life even before BO. And she has maybe 600 base mana, tons of hit recovery, hard to die. Players like these can move around several times faster than I can, so I'm always several screens behind: "huff, puff, huff, puff". They get the boss kill while I'm still struggling out of experience range, and they get the drop, maybe a nice 5 stat item, so I fall even further behind them in future play.
I remember the days before dupes were a dime-a-dozen in classic. This was up until about the XMas after LoD came out. I could keep up with people my level. Most of the highest lvl players didn't use them. Then it became so bad, that only about 2 of the top 15 players used legits. Thus, I became an oddball. Attempts to lag the entire realm while producing these duped items wrecked play on the realm (apparently the duping technique was used improperly or lag was necessary to produce the dupe). This happened in several episodes and went on for days. Many good legit players just picked up and left playing diablo. There were just too many waves of stolen accts, lost items etc... Where do u draw the line and say "duping is bad, but using the dupes is fun"?
Then the enhanced mh came out with show item. Oh, that available b4, but few people had it. Then most people could see what u wore, and they just HAD to get that too. Then all that "Instant Godliness" spam crap came along from www.we_suck_and_misery_loves_company.org.
I remember when DW site was suspended. It sadly had the only major Classic forum. I posted something here like "No more DW: what do u think?" and there were few responses, probably cuz that site catered to average players (who use dupes and mh) and cuz less than 10% of d2 players still do classic.
So many people use dupes in nl classic, it's hard to avoid the World of Dupes. You can play private games with maybe 1-2 other people or play alone. This is one of a few big Diablo websites that don't promote things like dupes. But it seems to be tolerant enough for people to admit that they use them. Unfortunately, some people get irate and resort to name calling when someone says "I use dupes". Then it just becomes a mudpie slinging contest. Some ppl like that too, just like they get thrilled when the hostile horn is sounded, lol.
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][B]Yeah, that's a great way to justify the use of dupes?
I mean, other people murder, so why can't I? I mean, in making money it's always faster money to kill someone and steal their money the 25th every month.
You know you've been playing too much D2 when:
-you compare using dupes to murder :lol: :clap:
If you want me to respect your living, respect mine first. Actually no, if you choose to post on this or these forums you WILL respect the others that also use them.
Because I use dupes doesnt mean i ruin other people gaming.
Sure it does, I won't bother to go into the ways how it does, because that is like talking to a wall when trying to reason with a person that uses dupes, and other cheats.
This is going nowhere. I chose nl coz people here use dupes. if u play nl that's the risk. That's why blizz made a ladder, to separate the legitimate players. A huge wall that separates lgtmate and non. If i dupe or use dupes in ladder that's when i dont play fair
go chase a neko. newbie. gg.
Read the community forum rules, and section III for newer members.
http://www.rpgforums.net/showthread.php?t=300784
i dont want to flame some1. i dont flame ppl and i dont think i flamed some1 from my last post. if i did sorry. Then don't flame. It will earn you a ban.
psycho.hatred
03-03-2005, 23:13
Ok I just want to make things clear.
I have friends who are also dont use dupes. But they arent people that say "hey you're a newbie for using dupes", "You ruin many people's game coz you use dupes". The only way of them showing that they are against dupes is not using them, not comparing them to murder.
Yes maybe it does ruin some people's game, but they dont go hostile enough to call people w/e they want.
I play classic, because almost everyone has different gear, and rares are actually worth picking up. It's fun, when you have played char to lvl 98 in lod, something fresh :P
Less idiots and cheaters (most ppl in classic don't use chicken and play the game like it should be played) as well.
If you hate dupes, why the heck are you playing on NL, that's something I don't get. I started classic just a few weeks ago, got three chars with queen/king status, and have the basic item base to build almost any char I want. My first char even got tppk'ed and I had couple of days break.
Conclusion: starting over doesn't require much in classic.
psycho.hatred
04-03-2005, 03:27
If you hate dupes, why the heck are you playing on NL, that's something I don't get. I started classic just a few weeks ago, got three chars with queen/king status, and have the basic item base to build almost any char I want. My first char even got tppk'ed and I had couple of days break.
Ditto........
Fearlessone
04-03-2005, 06:12
B4 the mention of the word "dupe", which always ignites a conflagration here, we had a nice discussion of 1.10 patch and how it compared to earlier patches.
Some people feel that bliz messed up after 1.06/1.07, with the patches just b4 LoD came out and into LoD, and peaking with the vainglorious 1.10. I started playing with 1.01, and had a barb and was pleased when 1.08 finally caught up with the masteries 2x damage bug. The other char most affected by 1.08 was the sorc, with imposed monster immunities. Now one thing u learn about Blizzard and their patches, if u really like a char: keep extra unspent skill points and stat points just in case. Case in point follows...
I played a friends lvl 82 orb sorc in hell, Blood Moor, against a zombie (now cold immune). She had static, but virtually no fire skills, certainly not learned past lvl 1, and no t-storm(a periodic potent lightning skill). Couldn't kill this zombie! Now if he wanted to, he could still lvl her up and get some of those skills, with + skill items, a respectable passable 1.08 sorc. I had about a lvl 46 sorc at the time and had all sorts of unspent skills, and planned accordingly. My "old-time" classic sorc got to lvl 84, still had many unspent skill and stat points. She was quite powerful in 1.09. When 1.10 came out: EMERGENCY! I had to beef up all my skill trees to deal with it, and was successful. But then, u got this blizzard skill now and fireball and meteor's that kill nearly everything onscreen in less than 2 seconds with maxed synergies, so where's the fun or challenge there??
With barbs, there is finally some respectable damage with the warcry skill, mine gets 800+ per yell vs. about 150 in 1.09. Monster hitpoints in classic 1.10 are maybe 2x greater with possibly greater physical resistances. But still this is an improvement. WW is still king. But ALL other barb combat skills were relatively nerfed, and hardly anyone plays them anymore on classic. Lvl 86 throw barb anyone? (that guy deserved a special award) Not anymore. Lvl 95 frenzy barb? Ha! Not only does its synergy not keep up with boosted monster HP, they slowed down frenzy to LoD speeds. We dont have all the shaels and glory ias items here in classic to recover. Leap is interesting now, but does leap attack really kill beyond single player? And who is the screwball who made it subject to Iron Maiden?
For that guy above who said it takes "forever" to ww a pack of Urdars, I say: get some poison damage on ur weapon, or a wormskull, or a snakecord (now there's a laugh, being forced to use that belt). If you find an soj, get a pemerald socketed into ur weapon. One lousy little pois damage charm in LoD takes care of what is a major trial and tribulation in classic. Unfair.
The most bizarre sight I have ever seen was in the weeks after 1.10 came out, seeing 2-3 sorcies in CS runs having to tank with 3-4 quivering, cowardly barbs at a safe distance back. Such occurred with boosted IM and nerfed leech.
Paladins: Lots of great combat skills rendered useless. Smite. Zeal. No one does them to hi lvl anymore. The most derided skill, hammers, glorified, no - deified. FoH is finally worth doing. Some people who play healers say that they can do 360 heal per cast. Something here is better than nothing. Pretty much, with IM damage boosted and monster hp's boosted and iceblink nerfed (yet again), melee paladins have died in classic. Party paladins: giving salvation when a bad boss comes, clearing curses with cleansing, outside of the few healers, they have died too. Paladins are now the choice char for arrogant, overpowered, selfish players, who couldnt possible think about anyone else in the party.
Zons: the top zon on USWest 1.10 classic ladder last season converted to LoD after 2 months. All the remaining high zons stopped playing their chars out of boredom. It just wasnt fun anymore...
Necros: meleemancers killed off, poison nova finally given a chance to perform. Bone spears and spirits fairly powerful. So necros can finally get corpses to start doing their 'thing'. Major complaints about their pvp abilities, tho.
I don't think that Blizzard tested their 1.10 patch with classic in mind. They just slapped on most of the changes that could be applied to classic and could care less about the results, we don't matter to them much anymore. We dont have alot of the equipment to contend with the changes. They know that. There was a howl when they did this just before LoD came out. Then, everyone was playing classic, except for the LoD beta testers. Now, we are just a blip...
My friend, I took your advice and tossed on a Wormskull and Snakecord. And to be honest, I found no difference in killing speed at all... How did you mean?
And what are you on about spending skill points? If your character doesn't work after a patch, just remake it...
And about Blessed Hammer not being 'super' anymore? Every Pally on Europe D2C HCL use it and kill everything in sight almost faster than Sorceresses.
Immunities was such a bad idea from the start (in Classic play). In 1.06 you had to have fast fingers and a good amount of skill (only class I've ever mentioned skill in conjunction with) in Hardcore if you wanted to exp fast. Teleport around like a maniac, spamming static, teleporting around a bit more, toss a few Orbs... It was an incredible pace and needed much concentration. Now all you need in LoD is to spam a spell til screen is dead. In Classic you don't need to spam a spell, you can toss one of it and the whole screen is dead... ;/ Synergies are not meant for Classic.
I'ts no wonder that all the former Europe HC high leveler PvP'ers/hardcore gamers ignored LoD and now finally quit D2 after 1.1 put the dagger in the heart of Classic...
I've played every type of character an extreme amount of times to very high levels through D2. Playing 6+ hours average for 3,5 years (4,5 years including breaks) I know what I talk about. So you don't think I'm one of those casual gamers who just wants to voice an erronous opinion...
TheCerberus
05-03-2005, 00:57
Smite is still a very viable skill, save in the CS. But support and tanking, easy to do.
Necromancers have weak PvP abilities? Are you serious? That's easily one of the best builds...
From using my WW Barbs to pk, the most ANNOYING characters i pvped was the necro, in asia realm(no lag!!!).
There are so called, chicken necros(what i call them personally), they just stand at the entrance right before entering blood moor, then they spam bone spirits, while my barb is just running around shouting
'Come on! Come one! CHICKEN!!!!"
(i dont think they understand though,)
Well, i really hate those chicken necros, and other sorcs who just stand at the entrance and spam FO and Hydras, ack, not to forget guided arrowzons, those 'chicken pkers' really get to my nerves, thats why I like BvB, only melee
Fearlessone
05-03-2005, 08:58
My friend, I took your advice and tossed on a Wormskull and Snakecord. And to be honest, I found no difference in killing speed at all... How did you mean?
And what are you on about spending skill points? If your character doesn't work after a patch, just remake it...
And about Blessed Hammer not being 'super' anymore? Every Pally on Europe D2C HCL use it and kill everything in sight almost faster than Sorceresses.
...
When my 90ish ww barbs encounter hell Urdar pack, i usually give them some battlecry and warcry. One of my barbs has NO mastery(i have 23 unspent skill points), but uses a nice martel with 252 dam + pois dam. I also have a cold damage ammy. Even without 20 pts maul mast and the 23% or so crit strike u get with that, he tears those mobs up in 8 person games, alone, in maybe 30-40 seconds. My 232 exec barb with cold and bcry takes about same time, no pois on him (yet). It's the spawning grotesque packs that are annoying, and may need lots of warcries to keep the wyrms down. Better yet, focus on 1-2 in the pack, divide and conquer.
I don't spend a year working on a char up to lvl 98 just to see some patch flush them down the drain. When ppl see me play they are always demanding to know why those red tabs are lit up for stat/skill. My choice.
U misunderstood me about bl hammers. It used to be the most derided of pal skills, because it wasn't supposed to work with any aura. Even one bliz exec called it "cheesey", not the classic image of what a pal is supposed to be - sword and shield... He must have been one of the ones who quit, lol. I think in 1.04 or 1.06 they decoupled conc aura from it, and there was a howl of protest from hammerdins, so they restored it in a few days. So then in 1.10 some reject from Retardoville massively BOOSTED this skill. Amazing. As if someone there at North decided to create an armada of tainted paladins. (In the first ladder season of 1.10, ppl would come to my cswalks and complain that the sora runs had 2-3 hammerdins, 2-3 sorc and maybe one BO barb standing in town. Alot of ppl hate those runs.) It was like they got the Bizarro-World Jerry Seinfeld to design it (B-W is a Superman world where everything is done oppositely from making sense, Seinfeld did an episode on this concept.)
Cerebrus- Yeah, there is one smiter on my realm in hell cs runs, he doesn't play often. Thats the only skill my zealot can do now in cs and not get killed. But thats because my smite is so low a lvl, anything near max is too dangerous, esp with conc aura about these days. I didnt say necro pvp is weak, just that some people complain about them, and Invitus got it right - they are overpowered in that dept. At least they are useful in bringing some of the hammerdins down to earth. I encounter endless charging paladins who zoom past everyone into cs and have it mostly done by the time we get to center, and pop seals on top of my 'weakling' unBO'd necro.
30-40 seconds for a pack of Urdars = fast? That is slower than walking through melted taffy... In 1.09 when I had my 90 Barb I finished entire River + Grotesques + Hephasto in less than 5 minutes.
And I've never had level 98. My max was level 90 in Classic and remaking one just takes a week "work" or 2-3 weeks active playing. Too many casual gamers got opinions they shouldn't have =( (no offense)
TheCerberus
05-03-2005, 16:29
30-40 seconds for a pack of Urdars = fast? That is slower than walking through melted taffy... In 1.09 when I had my 90 Barb I finished entire River + Grotesques + Hephasto in less than 5 minutes.
And I've never had level 98. My max was level 90 in Classic and remaking one just takes a week "work" or 2-3 weeks active playing. Too many casual gamers got opinions they shouldn't have =( (no offense)
If you'll read he's killing them in that time without any Mastery... without the AR, damage, and most importantly Critical Strike, it would take a lot longer don't you think?
Secondaly, remaking to 90 will not take a week's "work" or even 2-3 weeks unless you spend every waking moment in CS runs, which in that case you're a very sad person. Your last sentence shows that you're trying to be an elitist without really reading anything someone else says.
Yeah well he's a casual gamer who cripples his characters.
And with 1 weeks work I mean playing solo in river of flame (I don't play 1.10 Classic) 10 hours a day. 2-3 weeks with 5 hours playing 5 days a week. You may call me sad but I think it's fun to play D2 and I got plenty of time to sing with my band, party, socialize, be with my imaginary girlfriend ._. etc.
The thing is, I tried playing Urdars with my friends char (Utzemekanism on Europe HC Ladder. 94 I think) with 299 Martel, 340 strength, max mastery. He was not able to solo at a pace even remotely close to 1.09 and past patches. Snake cord and Wormskull made no difference.
Fearlessone
06-03-2005, 02:54
Yeah well he's a casual gamer who cripples his characters.
Yeah, well after 2 versions of diablo and hellfire and 10+ types of characters, including women, brown men, cross dressers, dyke's and albino's too - Blizzard still hasn't had a Wheelchair handicapped character. I've contacted my lawyer who is now digging into the trust fund to force Blizzard's hand. And those stairs leading down from the Pandemonium have just got to go! Imagine my wheelchair barb going down into Hell: "oww, ouch, ah, ouch, oww, ouch". You've just got to be kidding Blizzard!
I've already posted over at the Suggestion forum that some wheelchairs should be like the circa 1925 ones: wooden and high backed, conforming with this games' natural, dreary look.
Can't wait too for the dual-wielding Necro on crutches. Now if they use only one crutch, then they can use a special skill tree that enables them to:
1. Hop - this is the same as barb's leap, but then half the skills for the Assn and Druid came from recycled skills too.
2. Kick - well of course this could be quite deadly with an equipped Plaster Cast of Maiming. And I don't see any reason why clay golems couldn't equip this item either.
Because the poll-winning sound effect in this game is the necros: "Help!...Help me!", market forces now dictate replacing the now unused Curse tree with - the Wailing Tree. Yes folks, my ultimate crippled necro will have a special tree at his disposal including the skills:
Wimper - intro lvl noob skill, generates sympathy from female party memb's
Whine - boosted version of wimper
Wiener - castigation of male party members makes them fight harder
Wombat - summons an infuriated wombat, of course
Wacko Jacko - summons zombies led by...
Wail - lvl 30 skill. Well, the barbs warcry tree has a warcry skill, so there.
Waaaughhaahh - activated only when a jar in a dungeon is kicked, causing the necro to step on broken potion glass, emitting a blood curdling scream. Other party members pause for a moment, otherwise has no effect
Woohooyeow - activated by same, stepping on a sharp item instead, and same effect
grimWail - we all know that grim ward is really a necro skill
and lastly:
Weep - a pool of water unknowingly forms at ur feet, the game lags for a moment, the screen starts to flicker, and then becomes full of static, then - a horse's eye? flashing images, a ring? a well next to a creepy tree, a little girl with hair over her face, she comes closer, hand comes out of ur monitor, wanting to touch u and complete the circuit, ur only hope is to show this post to someone else within 48 hrs, or? they will find u in a state of crippling decrepitude in ur closet
oops (http://img62.exs.cx/img62/5633/screenshot0077ua.jpg)
look what happened guys... i think if i go out of the town the shop items will reset and the item will be lost.. but i think i might have enough cash on my other chars to buy it back.. i need help and i need it FAST
if i switch the town will the shop items reset(im in act1 normal so im not able to get enough cash by selling gems here because of the 5000 gold per item cap)?
-Tempus-
08-03-2005, 01:50
oops (http://img62.exs.cx/img62/5633/screenshot0077ua.jpg)
look what happened guys... i think if i go out of the town the shop items will reset and the item will be lost.. but i think i might have enough cash on my other chars to buy it back.. i need help and i need it FAST
if i switch the town will the shop items reset(im in act1 normal so im not able to get enough cash by selling gems here because of the 5000 gold per item cap)?
when i see something i want to buy but dont have the gold for it i'll msg someone to join the game (or load up 2nd pc) but to make sure the items dont reset i have the first char keep looking at the item. you can also take the wp to a different act and clear stuff in that act. then come back to the act where the items is for sale (dont use any tp's) if someone else joins the game the list will reset.
INU: the poison dmg mod on those items is only to slow or stop monsters from reg their life. for killing speed it helps more if you use open wounds, crushing blow, prevent monster heal. then you also need mass AR to hit anything now. 2000-3000 AR use to do just fine and give you a +85% chance to hit (on high lev chars) were now you need 3x that to get the same % to hit monsters.
while using set items/uniqs will help in killing and AR for melee chars, it takes some of the fun out of the game. this is because you cant use all those cool rares. still most melee chars will have the problem that their weapon will break very fast so you need to run to town all the time.
-Tempus-
dantheman5415
10-03-2005, 02:46
Hell yes!
Just about 5 minutes ago, I was helping my friend do Mephisto and Trav when I realized that I was really close to lvling my lv 68 sorc. So I decide to do Hell Andy so I could get a quick level. I only had about 200 mf on at the time, and lo and behold, Andarial drops 3 uniques...ring, ancient armor, and blade. I was pretty psyched about getting Silks and another shard is always good. I was expecting the ring to be either a nagel or manald, but it was a SOJ! First self found one ever after about 18months of playing lol. I nearly had a heart attack when I saw it lol
psycho.hatred
10-03-2005, 04:03
Hell yes!
Just about 5 minutes ago, I was helping my friend do Mephisto and Trav when I realized that I was really close to lvling my lv 68 sorc. So I decide to do Hell Andy so I could get a quick level. I only had about 200 mf on at the time, and lo and behold, Andarial drops 3 uniques...ring, ancient armor, and blade. I was pretty psyched about getting Silks and another shard is always good. I was expecting the ring to be either a nagel or manald, but it was a SOJ! First self found one ever after about 18months of playing lol. I nearly had a heart attack when I saw it lol
heh, ive found my very first soj "drop" last 3 or 4 weeks ago(all others were from trade) after almost 4 years of playing,(got it from from lord de seis in a full cs game). never actually picked it up myself but pickited it lol(just had it a month ago i think id still be looking for my first soj drop if i didnt have it). nice find
never actually picked it up myself but pickited it lol(just had it a month ago i think id still be looking for my first soj drop if i didnt have it).
What you do on your own comp is your buisness.
But I would be careful about mentioning the use of hacks here. You may suddenly find yourself gone.
TheCerberus
11-03-2005, 03:14
never actually picked it up myself but pickited it lol(just had it a month ago i think id still be looking for my first soj drop if i didnt have it). nice find
You know, I don't have the stance on dupes as most people here. But using hacks is one of the lamest things I can think of.
Fearlessone
11-03-2005, 04:47
Especially this ladder season in classic, I've had a really hard time getting anything. Just about had to do private runs, and found that andy was good in public runs, since alot of mid lvls join and they seem to be much less likely to have a pickit. Well, a large part of it is our isp and network lag here, and so many other people with dsl's who have that extra fraction of a second.
Not in LoD, but definitely in classic games, if items always disappear super fast, people will start grumbling and the run may end in acrimony. Sometimes, people will be singled out, or 'outed', or accused and they may admit to it. There is also some sort of keystroke series such as '/q1' or such that ppl running these programs CANT type, so if u ask them to type it, they cant and that means they are running the cheat.
Now I know that if u see multiple rares all disappear within 0.2 seconds, cleanly, with no errors in picking up a magical item accidentally, that is likely one or more in your party have an autograbber. But often there are borderline situations and asking these questions may help detect the cheats.
1) It seems that sometimes the items hang there for a fraction of a second, but u never get them. Is there a timer on pickits so that it looks kosher, avoids suspicion? Or do some people who use this also have network lag so that it looks like a normal swift pick up?
2) Can they select for say, exceptional types of rares, taking the exec but not the great sword? Can they further select against item classes they dont want, such as ignoring grim scythes?
3) Is asking everyone in the party to type that instruction a valid means of spotting a cheat?
It just seems that a heck of alot of players have gotten very very good at getting the rares before I do, and I used to be quite good at it. Part of it is the hammerdins who stand in the perfect spot and have their finger on the alt key ready for the boss drop. I dont want to accuse anyone of using one when they arent, cuz i know sometimes I get stuff and slower ppl get all hairy and yell "pickit!".
After 20 runs and 50 rares, if you cant get one good one, it ruins the game. How can we detect these people? I've read the forum rules, and i'm not supporting or linking to a cheat here. No one will answer my questions in-game and i'm tired of wondering.
TheCerberus
12-03-2005, 01:02
Guild Wars has a great system of randomly assigning items. You might not get the item you want, but you'll get something.
Fearlessone
12-03-2005, 01:41
One of the good things you always see around classic, is the next run people often drop the rares they dont need. I just found a nice mage plate and asked a sorc if she needed it, well, she was lvl 89 and had one almost exactly like it, but with a tad more +life. While I was seeing her armor, someone dropped rare ornate and other rares on ground next to us. In LoD, they grab everything that is uniq and set and u never see it again. They must have numerous copies of some items, seems like they just find a vendor in another act to sell it to, so u cant get it, lol.
I was just playing in the last few minutes: ornate, lance, mage plate...bang-bang-bang. There were not too many 84+ in the party. Like I said, u play 20 runs, maybe more all too frequently and get nothing. Back during the peak of duping, these dupe-users certainly wouldnt find anything better than the godlies they had on, but they still voraciously grabbed any exceptional rare, and often you wouldnt see these same ppl ever drop anything. They would sell it for gambling gold, but then a plain armor can fetch 35K too. So I suspect alot of hi lvl bnet people are just GreedHogs of Biblical Proportions.
Dungeon Siege has a 'Z' button that automatically grabs loot, and I think it has some sort of summons that can do it too. It even has a convert loot to gold function, so u dont have to go to town. It will be interesting how bliz addresses these problems in D3...
yea, in asia realm, once they identify the rares, they drop it if they dont need it, and if you pick it up, you get it identified for free :p
NOtwithstanding that there are little pickits in asia realm, maybe they couldnt read english properly :p
Well, about the builds in classic, in asia realm there are very very LiTTLE, and mark my words, VERY LITTLE variation on the builds
Sorc -
99% Frozen Orb
1% Fireball
0% Enchantress........LightSorc and others
Barb -
99.999999999999% WW bar
0.0000000000001% Does not deserve to be mentioned
Paladin -
99.99% Hammerdins
0.01% Zealots, Tesladins, Freezedins
Amazon -
Not much there, but top playes use javazons
Necro -
Only skellimancers. They are the crappiest build i have seen in my whole life, i havent seen a skellimancer made into hell solo, or nightmare. They skeletons are just plain crappy, unless you just put into skeleton, magi, mastery and summon resist, they still get killed in one hit but the grotesque wyrm, also, how do you oget the skellies in the first place if you cant kill? People usually choose a golem or a bone spell or revive, but it still sucks. They are the laggers and the crappiest in our team.
No, i did not exaggerate, try it, you only hear the sounds of FO, BH, WW, Skellies and whipping(zons).
I am planning to do something i havent tried before. I want to make an enchantress, and anybody find any good guides for my enchantress?
I have a rough plan with prereqs(took quite some time, lol)
FIRE
1 firebolt
1 fireball
20 warmth
20 firemastery
20 enchant
ICE
1 ice bolt
1 ice blast
1 frozen armor
1 shiver armor
5 chilling armor (might be useful?)
Lightning
1 telekinesis
1 teleport
5 static field
10 Energy shield
10 Thunderstorm
Not so sure, but maybe i could use FO for crowd control instead of the armors?
Stats:
Str: 60?
Dex: 100?
Vit: 310
Energy: 100?
How is that?
lets see,
starting sorc stats:
Str: 10
Dex: 25
Vit: 10
Eny: 35
Change:
S 50
D 75
V 300
E 65
98*5=490
490-50-75-65= 310
so 300 put into dex. Well, if my Ar is not enough, even with enchat, i think i am gonna hafta sacrifice some vit for the specific purpose.
I will try it out on my hero editor first, then do some editing, then repost
I am planning to do something i havent tried before. I want to make an enchantress, and anybody find any good guides for my enchantress?
I have a rough plan with prereqs(took quite some time, lol)
FIRE
1 firebolt
1 fireball
20 warmth
20 firemastery
20 enchant
ICE
1 ice bolt
1 ice blast
1 frozen armor
1 shiver armor
5 chilling armor (might be useful?)
Lightning
1 telekinesis
1 teleport
5 static field
10 Energy shield
10 Thunderstorm
Not so sure, but maybe i could use FO for crowd control instead of the armors?
Stats:
Str: 60?
Dex: 100?
Vit: 310
Energy: 100?
How is that?
lets see,
starting sorc stats:
Str: 10
Dex: 25
Vit: 10
Eny: 35
Change:
S 50
D 75
V 300
E 65
98*5=490
490-50-75-65= 310
so 300 put into dex. Well, if my Ar is not enough, even with enchat, i think i am gonna hafta sacrifice some vit for the specific purpose.
I will try it out on my hero editor first, then do some editing, then repost
if your enchantress will mainly be doing fire damage(and not physical) i recommend you to use a unique dagger called "the diggler". it has great bonuses including 30% faster attack speed, cold and fire resist, ignore target's defence, +10 dex.
the only problem is that ignore target defence doesnt work against unique monsters and bosses and in that case you should use the angelic combo(amulet + 2 rings) and perhaps even a sigon's helm.
but surely, dont get dexterity, it will only make your sorc die more. the more important things are maxed resists, a high block shield, and a reasonable ammount of defence
I havent done any calculations on dex yet, and i have had 3 digglers before, but i traded them already :(
But this should be my build
Helm: Tarnhelm (as for all my chars)
Armor: Goldskin
Boots: Tearhaunch
Gloves: Magefist
Shield: The ward, or Eyeless
Weapon: Hellplague
Ring: Manald Heal, SOJ
Ammy: Nokozan Relic
Mist of the items are damn expensive, and it might be too dependent on the items, especially most of them, and after editting the stats to fit in the equipment
Str: 80
DEx: 55
Vit: 310
Eny: 100
I wont use energy shield that much, and i will just put 5, and dump the rest into thunderstorm
And skills
FIRE
1 firebolt
1 fireball
20 warmth
20 firemastery
20 enchant
ICE
1 ice bolt
1 ice blast
1 frozen armor
1 shiver armor
5 chilling armor
Lightning
1 telekinesis
1 teleport
5 static field
5 Energy shield
15 Thunderstorm
Full enchant sorc with synergies and thunderstorm, no ice damage, no FO, of course, no PvP, only PvM
Please comment
if you plan on using thunderstorm, which isnt really a very good idea(compared to orb) then i suggest you put atleast 1 point to lightning mastery.
also you might want increased attack speed.. so maybe use sigons gloves + another part of sigons for a nice 30% faster attack speed and 10% life leech.
-Tempus-
12-03-2005, 15:32
one of my d2c enchant sorc is 74
base stats
61 str (100 with items)
30 dex (48 with items)
329 vit
35 energy
max warmth
max enchant
max firemastery
10-20 SF
1 telekinesis
1 teleport
ES i get from a staff (when i use it)
depends lightning mastery
armor skills from a staff
weapons i've used on her
bonesnap: needs 48% ias for 12 fpa (0 ias is 17)
stealdriver: needs 59% ias for 11 fpa
hellplague
hellcast: great fun
6 ruby sword
6 p topaz sword (works great with lightning mastery)
itd weapons (works great)
for melee attacks you need to look up the speed table for the weapons you want to use
the problem with the melee attacks is you do so little phy dmg you have a hard time with LL. you can also have a hard time if you dont have good def/block or a way to slow monsters. thats why hellcast can work so well, range attack and no need to get close.
high lev SF works very well since its range will be so high. in coop games i'll often just keep my +skill setup on and enchant/SF everything. when i need to do more killing i'll put on ias/leech/AR items.
you may also want to try open wound, crushing blow items.
-Tempus-
TheCerberus
12-03-2005, 22:47
Necro -
Only skellimancers. They are the crappiest build i have seen in my whole life, i havent seen a skellimancer made into hell solo, or nightmare. They skeletons are just plain crappy, unless you just put into skeleton, magi, mastery and summon resist, they still get killed in one hit but the grotesque wyrm, also, how do you oget the skellies in the first place if you cant kill? People usually choose a golem or a bone spell or revive, but it still sucks. They are the laggers and the crappiest in our team.
Skellimancers are on of the easiest builds to solo Hell with...
Fearlessone
13-03-2005, 02:17
Str: 80
DEx: 55
Vit: 310
Eny: 100
20 enchant, 5 static field
There have been a few good enchantresses on my realm. One went max and her build was made for enchanting ww barbs (since melee is otherwise dead in late hell classic). She was nearly doubling my ww damage, it was like close to 2000 instead of near the usual 1000. Of course, it wont double crit strike, but it was amazing to see how fast a couple barbs could plow thru the river. Tossing out orbs to slow down the monsters, or even better to static them like crazy to get hp down to just one ww for a mob kill. I've also found that a single point in glacial spike is helpful if the mob is in a constricted spot, just freeze them in place.
You have better stats planned on this post, 80 str for the goldskin. Lower dex.
Your Skellimancer comments: People often say they are useless. But I've seen a pack of them bring down baddies in a few seconds, then move onto the next monster and do same. Here the necro uses either amp or decrep. Decrep will help keep the skellie alive, since they only last 3 min or so, but will take less damage. Skellies take up a fraction of the room of many stronger revives. Many revives move around, dont attack and their AI is, well, stupid. Not the case with skellies, so u can get quite a number of them within swinging range. I use about 6 revives cuz they have high life and are an effective meatshield (I have found in cs runs, that only Urdars+amp will kill nice and quickly without too much attention, other revives are too slow). Some good necros will also raise poison mages or use a low level of pnova to keep regen down, or they assist skellies with spear or spirits.
The most irritating thing in 1.10 isnt skellie lag, it's necros who don't use CURSES. Pre-Oct 28th 2003 they would have been ridiculed. Now - no amp for barbs or the few bowazons, no lowerres for sorc, no decrep for amp and safety especially for the close-to-mob hammerdins. You even see pnova necros not knowing about lower res, or skelliemancers who dont see the need for curses. The demands of 60 points or 80 points into some bspirit synergies has hurt the party role of necros who cant seem to find a blasted extra skill point for amp. Party Paladins too have been hurt badly in 1.10 for same reason.
Its interesting to see, in LoD baal runs, the plethora of meteor and blizzard sorcies, and total absence of FO. This is due to the spawning nature of minions in an exact area and the casting delays of meteor and blizzard. Designing a char for just one little room......
Enchant has 200 % to attack bonus when you max it out, so, less dex is required.
If i am not planning to use energy shield, i guess i dont have to use ES, so I can dump them in FO, and the damned prereqs. If thats the case, since i wont be using my mana much, and i will just be enchant, cold armors, TS. So less energy, more into vit. about 50dex , because i have warmth.
Question.
If i cast frozen armor, chilling armor and shiver armor(not in order), would they replace each other or would they go together?
psycho.hatred
13-03-2005, 04:39
Try ravenclaw longbow for PvM. really nice for enchanter.
Yes skellemancer isnt that bad in hell. only problem is how you kill monsters to summon skellies. specially in a4 since there are no mercs(annoying if ur doing solo)
lod summon necro is nice with the might merc from act 2 and does the killing at start to create ur summons
if theres a hammerdin in the party, skelliemancers will kill at nice speeds. but without it its not true.. with +6 skills from items and amp damage your 10 skellies will be doing 450 damage each. And in an 8 player cs game monsters have 30000 life... corpse explosion will help.. but not much in an 8 player game again.
Deliciousness
14-03-2005, 15:03
So gentlemen, I need some assistance. I've decided to build a barbarian, single player. I'm at level 13 right now and am on the radament quest. I've decided to make him a frenzy barbarian.
Heres the catch, I'm using version 1.03. It's the version my CD is, and I wanted to try the rawest version of D2 I could get my hands on.
My question is, how do I improve my AR ? I'm hitting things, but I'd like to do it more. Also, is a frenzy barb viable in 1.03 ?
What should I aim for with my strength/dexterity ?
What is a decent weapon for a barbarian in that patch ?
I'm also thinking I should go with 2 swords, what with the 3 chipped gems + sword recipe still working in this patch. Can anyone confirm if this is a good idea ?
So gentlemen, I need some assistance. I've decided to build a barbarian, single player. I'm at level 13 right now and am on the radament quest. I've decided to make him a frenzy barbarian.
Heres the catch, I'm using version 1.03. It's the version my CD is, and I wanted to try the rawest version of D2 I could get my hands on.
My question is, how do I improve my AR ? I'm hitting things, but I'd like to do it more. Also, is a frenzy barb viable in 1.03 ?
What should I aim for with my strength/dexterity ?
What is a decent weapon for a barbarian in that patch ?
I'm also thinking I should go with 2 swords, what with the 3 chipped gems + sword recipe still working in this patch. Can anyone confirm if this is a good idea ?
ive played a frenzy barb in single player in a similar version to yours.. i used some cheap rare war swords i had found. with a couple of +attack rating items and some leech i was fine. i played the game through normal and then i got bored with the build. clicking on every single enemy isnt my idea of fun.. i prefer smashing through them, like a ww barb does.
Fearlessone
14-03-2005, 22:04
You will get good AR bonuses with either sword/axe/mace weapon mastery and also with ur frenzy skill. Any rings u can come across with 6% life leech + 103 ar + good resist may be as good as u will ever need. The 1.08 patch has a big AR partial set bonus with sigons helm, which is unavailable in the version u are using. With 1.03 u will be getting about 2x the normal damage due to the masteries bug, fixed in 1.08. 1.08 added a damage bonus to frenzy, so with 1.03 u will still be doing decent damage, and of course, frenzy is the most fun barb skill, even more so than throwing. I dont believe that the players8 command to help increase monster hp, and thus ur experience gains, is available in 1.03, that was in 1.08, so lvling will be sloooww, unless u are playing on a lan with others or open bnet.
If u go with swords, u might want to get good dex to use them. Rune swords req 79 dex, I think, exec's 110. Anyway, this helps ur AR. Execs and some other swords like gothics and ancients require like 170 down to 125 or so str. This isnt a complete waste since it will add a good deal to ur damage. Also it will allow u to wear chaos armor (140) or ornate (170 str). Remember, with 2 handed swords, u can dual wield, but the damage is often 50-60% of the two handed damage.
Now, any experienced or well-read armchair frenzy barb knows about the advantages of two other weapon classes: axes and maces. Specifically, nagas (axe) and battle hammers (mace). Look for the low or absent dex requirement on these items. Crowbills (axe) aren't bad either, but are certainly weaker in damage, they are very nice in speed. Knouts (mace) are a bit better than crowbills in damage and have the same nice speed. Bh's have the highest one handed damage in the game, although they are the slowest of the above mentioned. Sigons gloves and perhaps a 40% ias on a bh can overcome this. Low dex req mean u can just pump the str to use an item sooner, but u will hit less often, and only using ar rings, finding ar on a weapon or getting lots of points into frenzy and/or weap mastery will aid in hitting things.
Other mods to look for: +1-2 barb skills, mana leech, ar bonuses on the weapon, prev monster heal.
I dont think that the cube re-roll formula with a junky rare + 6 pskulls is available in 1.03, but u should find a decent weapon by act3 Nm.
TheCerberus
15-03-2005, 00:28
Frenzy
Battle Orders
Shout
Axe Mastery
Axes are best bet, good damage with good speed with low requirements. Perfect.
im making a javazon and i have no idea where to put my points other than to max lightning fury and pierce... any suggestions? i have 18 spare points at the moment and im level 38
also id like some suggestions on equipment. im currently using throwing spear(-10 speed class), sigons shield, sigons gloves, sigons boots, twitchthroe studded armor, goldwrap unique heavy belt, 3 p sapphire helm(fury costs a lot of mana), 2 manalds(i dont know if mana leech works well with fury, i need some info on this), and an amulet with 20 all resists 15 dexterity(to use throwing spears)
with my stuff i can break the 52% increased attack speed breakpoint for lightning fury.
im all open to suggestions
Penetrate and critical strike definately
Penetrate and critical strike definately
They dont help lightning fury in any way whatsoever. i was thinking more of a second attack(frozen arrow, poison javelin, charged strike) or valkyrie or just to pump the dodging skills
stanzaman
19-03-2005, 03:48
They dont help lightning fury in any way whatsoever. i was thinking more of a second attack(frozen arrow, poison javelin, charged strike) or valkyrie or just to pump the dodging skills
I would put points into the highest poision Javelin skill (forgot the name). My 1.09 javazon does pretty well in Hell with that skill maxed.
im making a javazon and i have no idea where to put my points other than to max lightning fury and pierce... any suggestions?
im all open to suggestions
As you probably already know, charged strike is very awesome for taking down monsters not in crowds as well as bosses. The synergy from Fury is a nice added bonus. I had a 1.09 Javazon that used Jab and Goblin Toe to deal with lightning immunes and this worked OK. Do you plan on doing mostly cows? A fury zon will obviously have no trouble here no matter what you're wearing. I don't know that mana leech helps much for a char with a low dmg weapon... In hell you'll probably want resists on those rings.
To keep this thread alive, I have some questions considering BvB. :)
What is the PvP penalty for physical, elemental and magic attacks in classic?
Also, some good BvB tips are needed. I was dueling with my new 72 lvl barb (euchcl) some barb five levels lower, and lost over half of the battles (no deaths, just fluxxes). I was patient, kept my whirls short and waited for the time to attack, but still wasn't doing very well. Maybe it's the experience I miss. Thinking afterwards, I hit him good a couple of times, but let him run away and heal, dunno why :P Also, I was wearing goblins (no frw) and sig's shield, so it would have been pretty hard to catch him up.
Still, I can't figure out, why he hit me so hard.
1) I had 3.7 k hp, he said he had 2.7 k
2) I had 10 k atr, he had less
3) He said he had 13x BH, I have 14x
Of course, he might be lying or perhaps chanted? Didn't see any sorcs in the game, but it's possible before I joined the game... Does a chanted BH look different? Or was he healing all the time... I only juv'ed when hit really hard.
Another thing, he had 150 str (I have a little over 100) and said his ww max was 705 (mine 696).
My gear, see if there's any improvements, except a better weapon. :)
Sig's helmet + gloves + shield
Rare dual leech 14x dmg BH
Rattlecage
Angelic combo
Goblin's (no frw, some 30% frw boots are better?)
Rare belt 17% fhr, 5x life, 15 str other minor stats
Edit: maybe bloodfist + some rare helm / the rare belt + boots with 30% frw / fhr or Hsaru's combo?
By dumping the sig combo, my ar drops from 10.6 k to 8.4 k, that shoudn't matter really, since most barbs are using rattlecage, right?
One thing I can tell you is that you should have over 300 Strength for BvB duels. Damage is much more important than life. My friend has 322 Strength with his 94 Classic HC Ladder Barb (Ladder rank #2 at the time, maybe 6 or 7 now) and he never lost a duel. He used Martel/BH.
TheCerberus
28-03-2005, 05:22
One thing I can tell you is that you should have over 300 Strength for BvB duels. Damage is much more important than life. My friend has 322 Strength with his 94 Classic HC Ladder Barb (Ladder rank #2 at the time, maybe 6 or 7 now) and he never lost a duel. He used Martel/BH.
300 strength? Excuse me while I laugh. The ideal BvB barb would use either Axes or Swords, I'd use Axes for lower reqs. Find a rare Naga with as high damage as you can go.
3-Ruby Winged Helm/Sigon's Helm*
Twitchthroe
Swordback
Goblin Toes
Bladebuckle*
Bloodfists/Sigon's Gloves*
Angelic Amulet + Rings*
The items above are cheap, common items you can use for BvB. However, the perfect barb would have rares in place of the '*' items. A nice rare helm, nice rare belt, nice rare gloves... rare amulet + rings. No dex in this setup, and as little strength as needed.
EDIT: To be fair, 300 str would have faired well in .09. Not now.
Well take that with my friend. He has yet never lost a duel and dueling is pretty much all he does. This is Hardcore and he has yet not died. If anyone should laugh it should be me. Axes got far too low damage and same with Swords :(
Hi
Yay a classic post hope we get a forum( never played LoD might give it a go someday).
I agree 300 str + is a waste of stat points, more life = you live longer!!!
Rattlecage, + swordback + gobtoes is just plain evil. Most people use twitch for the added block or a nice rare Ornate.
Swords rock for PvP hence you can hold a shield, sure a nice lance or maul works good but no block.
Mow
Hi
Yay a classic post hope we get a forum( never played LoD might give it a go someday).
I agree 300 str + is a waste of stat points, more life = you live longer!!!
Rattlecage, + swordback + gobtoes is just plain evil. Most people use twitch for the added block or a nice rare Ornate.
Swords rock for PvP hence you can hold a shield, sure a nice lance or maul works good but no block.
Mow
You know not much I see.
Why should you have so much life? It's TOTALLY useless. As I said, he's a Europe level 94 dueler and he has killed the best people on the Europe/East Classic HC. From a newbies point of view Life>STR but in practise it doesn't work like that. He's got 322 STR and he has yet not died. Why? Because so much life is totally useless.
You most often don't use shield in duel. Too low damage> too low leech. Even with Goblin/Rattle.
Sword sucks for duel because you will make too low damage to be able to hurt a pure STR Martel barb with over 20% life leech.
Don't come with opinions you can't back up. Mass life may work in Public Softcore level 80 duels because no one knows what they're doing there.
Sure Martels rock but that doesn't mean that sword and shield suck,
sure swords do less damage but your shield block 3/4 of the martels anyway so it works out better depending on setups.
Also correct me if i'm wrong but LL is not very good in PvP
Oh and your friend must be sooooo good if you idolise him so much.
Mow
Life leech means everything in PvP.
Yes, everything 1 handed sucks except BH, and then Martel is much better anyway. It doesn't matter if you block or not. With 75% block you will still die in 2 or 3 hits. The only remotely dangerous counter for him is Lancers because of the range but the min/max damage gap is too wide to make them reliable duelers.
And you should idolize him since you got a totally wrong opinion on PvP Barbs and he is the proof you are, indeed, wrong.
No one answered my question: what's the pvp penalty in classic?
Can other than weapons spawn with the mod "cold damage"?
By barb has 3.8 k life atm, ~110 base str after I invested several points, and probably gonna dump all the remaining points there as well for the extra damage, because 3.8 k life is enough, right? How does this combo sound for BvB: bloodfist + 3 pamethyst helm + rare boots 30 frw + 10 fhr + other mods.
Don't understand at all, why leech would be so important, since it was greatly reduced in 1.10, at least it's totally worthless in LoD. Not sure if it applies to classic or not. Same goes for 2-handed vs. 1-handed + shield. 69% block is crucial IMO, and without block you'll be taking hard hits all the time.
Enlighten me.
I will say it once again. 2000 Life is well enough for PvP. High damage from Martel + the strength will make you heal all your life in one hit with high life leech. A Barb with shield/1 hand weapon and mass life would not be able to compete at all with a pure STR/Life leech Martel Barb.
Belts can spawn with cold damage.
a str heavy barb such as the one inu describes is the way to go for hardcore bvb....simply because its a given that both players are going to be using potions during the duel. they are made to deal massive dmg quickly to overcome pots...and are at least partly sustained by potions themselves.
however, in duels where healing potions are forbidden [or at least frowned upon]-- everywhere pretty much--this build is less than effective vs a pure vitality bvb with a godly battle hammer.
i play on USwest sccl and have one of the top bvb's on the realm. only one other guy can beat my barb consistently, and our barbs are carbon copys of eachother.
me barb:
clvl 87
40 base str -- rest vit
helm: 3 p ame
shield: swordback hold
boot: goblin toe
armor: twitch
jewls: angelic ammy + 2x rings
belt: 20 str 53life atd 5
weps: i use two different bhams, using the best suited to duel specific oppenents.
96-161
175ed
130 AR
7-18 fire dmg
2-13 cold dmg
100 psn dmg over 7 seconds
eme-socket
97-172
179ed
180 AR
16-25 fire dmg
1-24 lightning dmg
i have about 4.4k life in bvb gear with slvl 21 bo.
i kill mass str barbs daily.
the barb inu described vs my barb in a no potions duel would be slain.
simple as that.
leech?
lol.
...
Oh thats why his friends high str low vit does so well he pots, I was going on the assumption that this was a normal duel no pots and no mana, the mana normally people use but it's still annoying when i'm not using pots. Sometime I agree we can use mana pots before the duel, but not often normally in pubbies
Why is it wrong to use potions? In SC I can understand it a bit since when you die you just go back to city and you can talk to Akara then go back out and do a 20 meter WW, die, Akara, then back.
In HC you fight til someone is dead, easy as that. The respected duelers never quit because lack of potions or so, and with this mass-STR Barb with 22% life leech pots is more or less unnecessary since one hit means he's got full life again. He do use pots but since he's all-STR he needs to use a lot less pots than high-VIT'ers.
I myself see no point in SC dueling. More risk = More fun. In HC you actually have to care. Ear means something and if you toss up a 95 ear you are God. Not to talk about dual loot duels which is the most fun and nerve-tingling thing there is! Adrenaline gogo! In SC that kind of thing doesn't exist.
Why is it wrong to use potions? In SC I can understand it a bit since when you die you just go back to city and you can talk to Akara then go back out and do a 20 meter WW, die, Akara, then back.
In HC you fight til someone is dead, easy as that. The respected duelers never quit because lack of potions or so, and with this mass-STR Barb with 22% life leech pots is more or less unnecessary since one hit means he's got full life again. He do use pots but since he's all-STR he needs to use a lot less pots than high-VIT'ers.
I myself see no point in SC dueling. More risk = More fun. In HC you actually have to care. Ear means something and if you toss up a 95 ear you are God. Not to talk about dual loot duels which is the most fun and nerve-tingling thing there is! Adrenaline gogo! In SC that kind of thing doesn't exist.
about pots...
healing in duels is lame......just die already.
about leech...
i pulled these from the PvP FAQ v1.1 by Mule here at the forums:
"Does life- and mana leech work in PvP?
Yes, but at an extremly reduced rate. You now only leech from the amount of damage you do, so say you do 1000 damage to another player, this is by penalty reduced to 170, if you leech 10% of this you'd recieve 17 life. However, testing with extremly high leech characters (100%+) has shown it is even some factor lower, so you don't even recieve the 17 life. This makes leech in general more or less pointless."
and i think it may get worse:
"How does difficulty affect PvP?
...
Leech is reduced to half in NM and Hell.
.."
and as far as dueling goes...theres something to be said about perfecting the pvp aspect of your game through participation in thousands and thousands of duels [hours a day in pk rooms is common for most people who play softcore--including myself--and i still have room to improve] rather than dozens.
sure, the significance of each softcore duel is much less relatively, but you cant hang out with your friends for hours and pk eachother in hardcore...
though i have to agree, risk = fun. fear of death is a powerful motivator.
That is bull**** that 1000 damage with 20% leech result in 34 life back. Practise>Theory. I've both seen him duel IRL (EDIT: Meaning I've been to his place and saw him duel, not that he went out and WW'ed the store owner... ) and I'm dueled a little with him and the moment I land a blow on another Barb I regain more than half my life. And since you all will say "lol liar0z" I will prove it to you. I will duel you with my friends Barb anyday. Just message me your characters name and time. Remember, it's Europe HCL, he's level 94.
And he has perfected his dueling alright. Partially because the good players never deny a duel and for practise he tosses on a weak weapon and just practise WW's, timing et cetera. This guy has dueled more than any of you have ever done so I should believe him/myself before some random West SC dueler :P Don't mean to be offensive but Classic is what he and me have spend 8 hours a day on for over 4 years. Most of you are casual gamers who think you know stuff :P Again, no offense.
for your sake...
i just used my martel goldfinder and a friends bvb as test subjects. my gfinder does about 1.6k max ww dmg and leeches 19% life. he has much less str than your friends barb, so less dmg for sure, but close enough to get some insight. and only 3% ll off...
after letting him dmg me, he re-equiped his shield [sback] and i gave him a couple little test whirls, doing about 1200 dmg. and losing 3-4 life each time i attacked him...
whatever little bit of leech still enabled in pvp seems incabable of even overcoming the atd 10 on sback....
explain?
TheCerberus
30-03-2005, 03:24
No offense, Inu, but you're not making yourself look very good.
~Leech has been nerfed like crazy in 1.10, in the fact that it gives such small returns on life now it's useless. Did you watch your friend in 1.09? Because right now, he'd hardly get ANY life back. I've done tests, many people have done tests, end of story.
~Obviously you two are the ones with no knowledge of PvP. You talk about new people seeing life as a godly priority over damage? This is coming from someone who uses Hammers. Nagas and Executioner Swords are both range 3, and Battle Hammers are range 1. That means I can whirl at you and hit you, without you touching me. But I'm sure your friend plays with a group of people that let's him whirl right at them eh? Yeah, what a talented group you have there. That's laughable; hammers are only used because they're a cheap source for common damage, and that's great in pubs. You want to be a top barbarian? Don't use that trash, use swords or axes. End of story.
~Now, you can pop on a Martel De Fer. In a weapon comparison, we won't include leech (even though it sucks) or Crushing Blow, because both characters have access to them. Let's say, martel does 300 damage. With 300 Strength (+330%) and a generous +6 skills (+150% +153), you do 378 damage per hit in PvP. With a Naga that does 135, 125 Strength (+125%) and +6 skills (+150% +153%), you do 121 PvP damage. Now, for 100 hits each, Martel = 37800 and Naga = 12118 damage. Except a Naga allows you to block 75% of the hits, so the Martel actually does 9450 damage. Naga also has 50% Open Wounds, so the gap goes even larger! Now, counting leech, if it did work to say, full 20%, Martel gains 1890 life back while the Naga gets 2423 life back. But, leech doesn't work like that. End of story.
~Life vs. Damage. Since we've now decided that Nagas are far superior to the hammer class, let's do a comparison of a 300 str Naga vs. a 125 Strength Naga. Both Nagas are 135 damage. We'll compare the two just wearing axes because each player can wear the same thing. With just Battle Command, the 125 str guy does 106 damage and the 300 str guy does 146 damage; the 125 strength guy has (175*4)*1.95 life, or 1365 more life.
Let's say the 300 str guy has 2000 life. So the 125 guy must hit him 19 times to get him to 0 life. So every 18 hits the 300 guy must use a full rejuv. The 300 guy must hit the opponent 24 times! to get him to zero, so every 23 hits the 125 guy must full rejuv. 16 pots, 64 pots, whatever, it doesn't matter. Who lasts longer?
Don't try to disregard me as a casual player who has hardly PvPed. I know more about PvP than you will ever know; I could beat you while cooking a steak and doing my laundry. Don't kid yourself with some HC elitism; I've played Hardcore in East and Asia; if you can get a HC baba to 85 in Classic Asia, while using berserk, that's an accomplishment.
EDIT: PvP penalty is .17 or roughly 1/6.
Practise beats theory. Come and duel me/him any time. Haven't lost one duel and he has spent most his D2 time refining dueling, beat the best and never died.
Stop beating around the bush and come duel me/him already. You can talk the talk but can you walk the walk? Didn't think so. And well, we both consider you a newbie cerberus since you have no actual knowledge of PvP.
EDIT: Unless someone actually can back their words up by dueling me I will not respond here. If you want a duel to prove yourself, message "*Utzemekanism" on Europe. Then you will see why Swords and Axes are ****.
Practise beats theory. Come and duel me/him any time. Haven't lost one duel and he has spent most his D2 time refining dueling, beat the best and never died.
Stop beating around the bush and come duel me/him already. You can talk the talk but can you walk the walk? Didn't think so. And well, we both consider you a newbie cerberus since you have no actual knowledge of PvP.
EDIT: Unless someone actually can back their words up by dueling me I will not respond here. If you want a duel to prove yourself, message "*Utzemekanism" on Europe. Then you will see why Swords and Axes are ****.
Hmm ok go back to your dream world, cerberus has just given numbers with calculations and everything saying why swords and shield and whatever work better then you come back and say noob duel me with my friends barb hmmm why don't you build yourself a barb and try for yourself how life leech works in 1.1 yeah ll work pvm but not enough in pvp.
to some it all up life > str
TheCerberus
31-03-2005, 00:56
Practise beats theory. Come and duel me/him any time. Haven't lost one duel and he has spent most his D2 time refining dueling, beat the best and never died.
Stop beating around the bush and come duel me/him already. You can talk the talk but can you walk the walk? Didn't think so. And well, we both consider you a newbie cerberus since you have no actual knowledge of PvP.
EDIT: Unless someone actually can back their words up by dueling me I will not respond here. If you want a duel to prove yourself, message "*Utzemekanism" on Europe. Then you will see why Swords and Axes are ****.
It's not theory smarty. It's tried and proven, and all you can come back at me with is "I haven't lost"? That tells me a lot about the competition you've faced.
So I assume from your post you can talk the talk/walk the walk eh? Why don't you come duel me? *KnightsTemplar- on USEast. No actual knowledge... haha, you think leech is great in PvP. Enough said hahahahaha.
EDIT: Seeing as how we've played on different realms, this "theory" is the only reasonable/logical way to explain anything to you. And to tell you the truth, it's not theory at all, it's game mechanics. Oh wait, are you so godly that you two rise above the mechanics of the game? Can your BvBer teleport in Classic too? Maybe shoot Bone Spirits out of your... well, you get the point.
about battle hammers being cheap trash....
the highest end examples compete in price [soj-wise] with the highest end nagas and execs...
and in skilled hands their superior dmg more than makes up for lack of range. im not going to ww around carelessly and let myself be ranged...
the best swords and nagas on my realm fall under my hammers...and there are a handfull of really nice ones, some in more than capable hands.
but the fact of the matter is, the only barbs that give me a run for my money use high-end bhams. the rest simply cannot compete.
end of story.
TheCerberus
31-03-2005, 02:30
I agree that head on, hammers win easily due to superior damage. However, that higher damage can't "make up" for lack of range. If the other person does not know about range, then yes, you will be able to beat them hands down. However, if they're WWing using their range, unfortunately there's nothing you can do to stop them. They will always be out of your reach, while they can hit you over and over.
And by cheap trash, price wise they are very expensive. I know as soon as ladder starts, hammers are in high demand because they are much simpler than swords and have higher damage than axes; frankly, they also look much cooler. A naga looks like a frickin' toy.
8===
=8
That's a pretty accurate representation of how little range a battle hammer has. Unfortunately, lances outrange everyone, but the lack of shield can hurt them too.
Funny, you just said that someone who knows about the range will use their Swordies/Axers to ALWAYS be out of range (notice superlative). Then you said that Lancers may suffer because the lack of shield...? Since the ALWAYS stay out of the Swordie/Axer range, what do they have to worry about? I smell contradiiiiction...
TheCerberus
01-04-2005, 02:00
Funny, you just said that someone who knows about the range will use their Swordies/Axers to ALWAYS be out of range (notice superlative). Then you said that Lancers may suffer because the lack of shield...? Since the ALWAYS stay out of the Swordie/Axer range, what do they have to worry about? I smell contradiiiiction...Ouch. You got me on two points that it was pretty dumb of me to say, although one I didn't mean.
a) axes will always stay out of range - This, I admit, isn't true. There will probably be a time where the user gets lazy or unlucky, and falls into axe range, getting hit for more damage than he's giving. However, axes will have at least 2 more hits even in a straight-on whirl, entering and leaving ranges. If they play well, chances are very slim, winner goes to the axes.
b) Lack of a shield may hurt them - I didn't mean to type this at all. I meant to type that having a shield will hurt the lancers attacking you.
A shield is protection. 75% of attacks miss, giving you a lot more freedom than someone who will always be hit. With a lot of speed, either through generous FRW on you or slow on them or both, you can "rush" lancers. You walk faster than you WW with a lot of IS, and with a shield, you can take gambles. Instead of WWing into them, in which case you'll undoubtably fail*, walk while they're WWing, take at most 1 hit on average, and WW in line with them. It works, and you'll hit a lot more than them. *I said before that there can be times where a lower range weapon can get in range and hit, and that works really well against builds with no shields.
A Battle Hammer against a two-handed axe or sword could do the same thing.
Cerb, what do you say about playing 1.06 server with me? HC that is and later we'll duel at the same levels :)
TheCerberus
01-04-2005, 17:29
Cerb, what do you say about playing 1.06 server with me? HC that is and later we'll duel at the same levels :)
Sure man, I'll have to install the game again though. PM me the details or post them here, but I'm almost positive you can't post links to realms. PM to be on the safe side.
How many people? Servers are stable? Is everything standard (drops, monsters) or are there increased drops for rares to promote dueling?
I've always wanted to try this out, but I haven't played since the summer because my dad hates this game. I'm glad you said it now though, I was about to sell it for money for Guild Wars :). I've only played 1.09/1.10, so it'll be a big change, and a lot different from what we're talking about here...
The server is stable. I have the same ping I have vs B.Net, no spikes or anything. There aren't the same amount of people as on Battle.Net but there are always games up.
"Different to 1.06 are the following things:
Cow level
cube a tp tome and an unique ring to open the cow level
there are some different and very hard enemies.
experience and drops
enemy hp * 2
enemy exp * 2
that is because there are not so many chars on the realm. in case to get exp, they were raised.
the monster exp and life in the complete act 4 is related to exp and life in the CS. this is done to prevent 'only CS runs'
some unic and superunic bosses have changed. they have different life, exp and drop rates to prevent e.g. mephisto runs.
fast cast and increased attack speed
because it wasn't possible to adjust the 1.09 FC rates to 1.06 FC rates the rates on the items were adjusted:
10 FC (early 1.06) --> 18 FC (in this mod)
20 FC (early 1.06) --> 35 FC (in this mod)
FC stats
it also wasn't possible to adjust the IAS rates from 1.09 to 1.06, so the items were adjusted also:
10 IAS (early 1.06) --> 14 IAS (in this mod)
20 IAS (early 1.06) --> 28 IAS (in this mod)
30 IAS (early 1.06) --> 42 IAS (in this mod)
40 IAS (early 1.06) --> 56 IAS (in this mod)
different cubes
upgraded Wall of the eyeless (60% FC):
wall of the eyeless + Stone of Jordan + ettlich + 4 perfect skulls
upgraded magefists (60& FC):
magefists + stone of jordan + eye of etlich + 4 perfect skulls
items can be senn at this link.
tp tome + unique ring = cow level"
Those are the changes.
The drop rates are the same (thank God. If rares Lances/Execs etc would have popped up everywhere I wouldn't play :p)
This patch was the best because this was the patch when everything was at the peak of balancing. The item system here is optimal... Aaah! I'll go install D2 right away =)
I can't PM. Add me, GoAniMeGo@hotmail.com at MSN and I'll toss you the link.
To Aragorn: I've not been able to use PM's, change avvies et cetera for over a year. Please remove whatever status I have to a normal one please.
TheCerberus
02-04-2005, 00:19
Wow.
125% FCR and 200% FCR are possible then, for Necromancers and Sorceresses? That's insane, I know exactly what character I'm going to build.
They were adjusted for a reason. You won't be casting any faster than you did in 1.06 :)
TheCerberus
02-04-2005, 19:20
I'm not getting it. 10 FCR = 18, 20 FCR = 35, so...
Magefists = 60 FCR
Wall of Eyeless = 60 FCR
Amulet = 18 FCR
Ring 1 = 18 FCR
Ring 2 = 18 FCR
Shard = 78 FCR
= way more than 200
Of course, I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "changing" from 10 to 18, but I'm moreso focusing on the upgraded items having 40 more FCR than usual, which is a big benefit.
-Tempus-
02-04-2005, 22:53
having problems with PM's? did you delete all msg from your inbox and your sent items? you can only have a total of 5.
btw seems this thread is gone OT from D2C. maybe its time to close this thread and start a new one with only the good info.
-Tempus-
Cerebus: It's like regular IAS. 14% IAS does EXACTLY what 10% IAS did in 1.06. You will still have the same attack frams et cetera. Same with Fast Cast. Since this server is a modded from 1.09 it doesn't use the 1.06 data. With the upgraded Magefist etc you will only be able to reach a maximum of what you were able to reach in 1.06.
Tempus: I don't even have an inbox or PM link or anything :P I can't change avatar or nothing xD
Ok question to Classic People...
Do you guys want a new thread started & stickied or stay with this one ?
TheCerberus
10-04-2005, 06:27
I suggest everyone looks through the posts made in the thread, seperates information based on subject, and then consolodate all the posts on a subject into one post: i.e - all posts on meteorb sorcs transcribed into one solid, informative post; all posts on item costs/selection into one post; so on so on.
Fearlessone
10-04-2005, 07:19
Glad the guys doing the BvB posts tried to go PM, it was becoming a drag to see it chew up all the posts for the past few weeks. It does seem that the same 15-20 people have most of the posts recently. We would like more of the thousands of D2c players to know this thread exists and is for them to form a community with it. I've played with only one guy who posts here, and two people I play with read some of my posts here. That is at least something!
How many new people look thru posts #40-300 here on this thread? Probably not many, its unsorted. Searches dont work for individual threads (do they???), but that would be very valuable here - to eliminate the nearly useless LoD information 'pollution' from other threads on this forum. Maybe that is an answer: searchability of a thread. This one is awfully long, it takes about an hour to glance thru it.
If we start a new thread, alot of valuable info is lost. I would bet the guys who post here won't want to do the same old typing all over again for quite some time. Maybe new people would be drawn in, dunno.
I have noticed that we are NOT getting repetitive posts (yet), and thats not because d2c players are old hands and dont need advice, a large% of players I meet are new within the last few months.
This is probably one of the biggest Diablo 2 sites that exists yet it is EXTREMELY restrictive when it comes to classic so I post on other forums when it comes to Classic. One thread? I mean, come on...
Classics
11-04-2005, 01:40
I've played with only one guy who posts here, and two people I play with read some of my posts here.
I'll gladly play with you. But, as of now, I'm inactive on Classic. Next season, as long as you play West ladder, PM me and we can play/help each other.
TheCerberus
11-04-2005, 04:32
Glad the guys doing the BvB posts tried to go PM, it was becoming a drag to see it chew up all the posts for the past few weeks.
Yes, all 1 week of it :)
Fearlessone
12-04-2005, 07:23
This is probably one of the biggest Diablo 2 sites that exists yet it is EXTREMELY restrictive when it comes to classic so I post on other forums when it comes to Classic. One thread? I mean, come on...
Well, there are 18 forums here on this website, and only one thread within a forum about classic. I remember when the LoD beta came out and there were ENORMOUS numbers of posts during that trial on their very own special forum(s) here. This happened elsewhere to other websites, all the furious posting, and 'paparozzi' coming back to diablo after the usual 3 months that most people give a game b4 they move on... As we all know, that and the duping sprees and bnet instability after about 6-12 months wrecked the enjoyment of the game for many and they left. Some came back to classic, most took off permanently.
As mentioned b4, DW is now in limbo and the administrator of the LL site quit and others took over. Now when u go there, the front page is all WoW, and u have to dig around to get to diablo stuff.
I stopped posting here for several years. Mostly it was because LoD shoved classic out of the limelight. The xpac made it a whole new game, especially the items. Items, items, items...obsession with items, no wonder there was so much duping. (If u like items so much, plz go window shopping on a fancy schmanzy street with boutique shops and search for ur very own sparkling ruby slippers.) So these posts here all became Greek to me. The game engines were almost the same, 4 of 5 acts, 5 of 7 chars, but the builds became sooo item dependent.
If you played a good game of basketball (in the chaos sanctuary of course converted to a gym, where else), and suddenly the great-grandson of its inventor changed the game around and those Jordan sneakers really did give u the edge, and 'Magic' sparkling gym shorts etc... you might feel that the game had cheapened. It wouldnt be the 'art of the play' anymore that mattered. It would be like the movie 'Pleasantville' where they made the basket every time. In LoD, having all the 'right' items and skill build and just pressing a button to instakill all the spawning minions is half the game now.
This is probably one of the biggest Diablo 2 sites that exists yet it is EXTREMELY restrictive when it comes to classic so I post on other forums when it comes to Classic. One thread? I mean, come on...
Excuse me ?
EXTREMELY restrictive regarding classic ?
Inu, you have it a bit wrong.
The fact is that there was discussion about creating a sub forum for classic. I have mentioned that in the past, however there seems not to be enough interest in classic to warrant a forum of it's own. More than a few admins, and mods thought that a forum for classic would not see very much traffic and end up falling on the wayside, like the Sacred Forums did.
The purpose of this single thread was :
1. To give those interested in classic one place to be able to find and post everything having to do with classic, rather than to have to search through months worth of forum posts.
2. More importantly, it is/was also meant to see the current interest level on classic and depending on what that interest was, we were going to decide on if there was to be a classic sub forum or not.
3. From Elly's point of view, there are also other concerns, bandwith usage, moderators, etc,.
To date there still is not does not seem to be enough interest in classic, not to mention that Diablo itself as a whole is winding down somewhat as people move to other games, blizzard or non.
The needs of the whole site tend to outweigh the needs of the few.
This thread can stay as it is, or it can be unstickied, it's up to those interested. Or not interested...
stanzaman
12-04-2005, 18:24
Atleast with a classic forum, all the information about classic will be consolidated in one place, rather than scattered about. And I disagree, there seems to be significant interest in a forum, it's just that the people who would post in it are currently hanging out on other forums. And finally, what's the harm in trying it out? If it does turn out to be a bust, it shouldn't be that hard to remove it later, right?
Keeping Classic in one thread doesn't prove activity. I for one posts more or less nothing because of it.
Making a new forum doesn't cost any bandwidth. The activity does. If it gets popular it will cost bandwidth but hmm, that's no good so let's not make it popular after all :P
I suggested a Classic forum long before the forum wipe here at dii.net several time when Classic was very popular at the forums too, but it was never implemented.
Moderating is a problem? Not really. If it is impopular it's no work for the existing ones, or it could just be removed. If it gets popular there are many serious and mature people to 'hire' for the job whom have a lot of freetime to spend.
And keeping all classic info in one thread? As some other dude said, keeping it in one forum makes it a whole lot easier.
But well, I only play 1.06 server now so I would not have much to do on a 1.10 classic forum anyway :P
Ciao.
Keeping Classic in one thread doesn't prove activity. I for one posts more or less nothing because of it.
Making a new forum doesn't cost any bandwidth. The activity does. If it gets popular it will cost bandwidth but hmm, that's no good so let's not make it popular after all :P
I suggested a Classic forum long before the forum wipe here at dii.net several time when Classic was very popular at the forums too, but it was never implemented.
Moderating is a problem? Not really. If it is impopular it's no work for the existing ones, or it could just be removed. If it gets popular there are many serious and mature people to 'hire' for the job whom have a lot of freetime to spend.
And keeping all classic info in one thread? As some other dude said, keeping it in one forum makes it a whole lot easier.
But well, I only play 1.06 server now so I would not have much to do on a 1.10 classic forum anyway :P
Ciao.
I did not say moderating it was or would be a problem, there are more than a few mods that could lend a hand there, including myself.
And it has been discussed by the admins, it was last brought up on October just before this thead was started.
I really have no preference as to there being a stickied thread for classic or not. that is the decision of this forum as a whole, so if people don't want it anymore than it can be unstickied.
-Tempus-
13-04-2005, 10:48
a classic forum would be cool and should make finding info easy (no need to read 20 pages of posts)
if that cant be done then i think it would be a very good idea to start a new thread and copy all the good info from this thread to the new one (or maybe just links to the posts with info)
i send many to this thread from the LL & AB that want to start D2C chars. many of them start D2C for hellforge rushing but often they findout D2C can be very fun to play and stay with it.
also a lot of the people that play D2C are new to battle.net and often dont know about this site or some of the others out there with good D2C info
-Tempus-
Good news!
There will be a Classic Forum for DII.
It will likely be created sometime today.
It will be modded by myself and Dacar92.
The bad news :
It is a test run, meaning if it does not work out over the next month or two, the forum will shut down.
Now is the time to gather all the important information, guides, etc.
This thread will also be moved there.
I will have more information as it comes forth.
Fearlessone
15-04-2005, 07:51
Thank Goodness and whoever is the force behind this blessed event. This thread has been becoming so big and unwieldy. I can think of a few guides I've been itching to write.
Now go in Peace and Sinwar no more....
Thank Goodness and whoever is the force behind this blessed event. This thread has been becoming so big and unwieldy. I can think of a few guides I've been itching to write.
Now go in Peace and Sinwar no more....
Well, this should soothe that nasty itch of yours
http://forums.diabloii.net/forumdisplay.php?f=115
t'dah
I'll leave this stickied for a bit, but since there is now a Classic Forum, this sticky is no longer needed. Time to pull out useful information.
I forgot about this thread, fearlessone. Thanks for the reminder. Let's stick this thread for review. No need to make it any longer than it already is, so let's leave it closed for now.
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