View Full Version : Hammerdin versus Diablo Clone?
treldonis
28-10-2004, 17:43
I asked a similar question in the General forum for good Diablo Clone killing builds but I only got general guidelines (Crushing Blow, PMH, etc). I heard before that Hammerdins are quite fast and successful against him. Is this true?
hammerdins are good vs everything, including DC. Just make sure to have max resists, and some potions, and you will take him down without any major problems without having too expensive gear.
You can get effective enough using nothing worth more than a shako...
treldonis
28-10-2004, 18:28
hammerdins are good vs everything, including DC. Just make sure to have max resists, and some potions, and you will take him down without any major problems without having too expensive gear.
You can get effective enough using nothing worth more than a shako...
Where do you usually spawn him? Did you have to leave and return periodically for healing/potions? How long usually for you?
Sorry for all the questions. I had an instance when my Meterob Sorc was MFing in hell and I had no other characters at that difficulty level. I wanted to make a Clone Killer so I can get him when that happens again.
assmuffin
28-10-2004, 18:41
I haven't had much success in fighting the clone with my hammerdin. The damage seems like it is doing barely any damage at all compared to his healing rate. He had like 10k damage per hammer and still it wasn't really working out. My Blizz sorc on the other hand does greatly against him.
I haven't had much success in fighting the clone with my hammerdin. The damage seems like it is doing barely any damage at all compared to his healing rate. He had like 10k damage per hammer and still it wasn't really working out. My Blizz sorc on the other hand does greatly against him.
I highly doubt you had 10k damage since when I fought the DClone I had only 9k and it took me less than a minute to kill him. This was without Prevent Monster Heal. Unless of course you were in an 8-player game, that would make more sense.
treldonis
28-10-2004, 19:46
I highly doubt you had 10k damage since when I fought the DClone I had only 9k and it took me less than a minute to kill him. This was without Prevent Monster Heal. Unless of course you were in an 8-player game, that would make more sense.
What was the gear that you used? Do you need very high level equipment to take him on solo?
I'm asking because my equipment selection isn't very robust right now. I hope to rectify it with Pit/Andariel/Meph runs with my Meteorb sorc soon.
NefariousNothing
28-10-2004, 20:29
Well, I've taken DClone solo three times, and not had to return to town for potions at all. Using harle/hoz/wizspike/treks/frosties. Other stuff isn't all that great, but hey. Gets the job done. I've only kept one anni so far, given the other two to close friends that needed one. Hammer damage is somewhere close to 7k, all resists are 90+ (95 fire helps, so I usually have waterwalks in my stash incase he pops up on me). Consequently, I made this character just to solo diablo clone. He's named "clone_pwner" :drool:
reddusk5
28-10-2004, 20:42
I just beat Dclone with my hammerdin the other day!
Spawned him near the frigid wp in Act 5.
Gear was as follows:
Helm: Shako w/ p topaz
Armor: Gaurdian Angel w/ p topaz
Ammy:Mara's (my only one :tear: )
Rings:Stone of Jordan/Dwarf Star
Gloves:Frostburns
Belt:Arachnid Mesh (again my only one :tear: :tear: )
Boots:Silkweaves
Wep:Wizspike
Sheild:Hearald of Zakarum w/ p diamond
none of which has been upgraded
As a side note PREVENT MONTER HEAL, my friend it helps more than any other mod save resists against him in my opinion. I brought in a Friends multi/magic arrow zon wit a BotD bow, to pop off a couple of shots with Prevent monster Heal on the Clone. I'd suggest giving your merc a weapon with PMH (Woestave,The Grim Reaper ,Bonehew, etc.. Assuming you use an Act 2 merc of course) rather than switching characters, but i was to lazy to get a new wep for me merc.
anyways I hope this rather long post was able to help ya.
While virtually any build can take him out succesfully, my favorite is the frost zealot. Takes less than a minute and I dont have to spend time accumulating wealth to build a good char for it. Minimum gear can get the job done, and u can buy most of it for pgems. Not to bash the hammerdin, hes just as able to take him down, I just prefer mellee with dclone for some reason. If you wanna look into the frost zealot option check out this guide, and make sure to pay special attention to the crushing blow part. Thats what makes Uber D fall in under a minute.
Frost Zealot Ladder-Running Guide, v3.0 (http://strategy.diabloii.net/news.php?id=542)
GovernerOfCali
29-10-2004, 00:12
I got the joy of fighting him 2x last weekend.... my hammerdin did horrible... I left the game and came back with my frost zealot (he has 98% crushing blow)... and even though he's a zealot... i used smite and DClone went down as fast as when a sorc uses static on boss's.... the whole process was about 30ish seconds of smiting and a few zeals to finish him off. I think a hammerdin would work... but I would not make a hammerdin for the purpose of killing dclone. My hammerdin does over 10K damage... and like I said... it was taking forever... his setup in case your interested...
Shako w/ Topaz
Uppded Vipermagi w/ Topaz
Seraph's Hymm ammy
HoZ w/ Diamond
HoTO w/ 39% resists
Arachnid Mesh Belt
War Travs
Chance Guards
BK Ring
Ravenfrost ring
1 Pali combat charm
character lvl 83
... I don't have PMH on my hammerdin... all this with over 10K damage on hammers and I thought he didn't make a good dclone killer. Maybe to somebody who has never seen better, they would be satisfied with him.... but my suggestion would be a Smiter for the ultimate killer (but I don't think they would be fun to play in general)... next best choice... frost zealot with maxed crushing blow.
and just an FYI... the problem with my hammerdin was not that he was getting beat up... is that the amount of damage DClone was taking compared to his regeneration rate was just not doing a good job.
sk8brdnick
29-10-2004, 00:30
My javazon did just fine against him. I switched out my helm for blackhorn and my boots for goblin toes and proceeded to charged strike like crazy. Took a few minutes, but got an okay anni (1/12/18/9). The reason everyone says just use CB and PMH to beat him is that most builds can build him with good CB and PHM. I would never build a character specifically for d clone killing because you don't encounter him much. It's not like you can run him or anything. As long as you have a blizz sorc or some manner of phys dmg dealer with good resist and some PMH and CB gear in the stash, you are all set.
Just did DClone last night with my Hammerdin so I'll give the setup and tactics.
Gear for DClone -
Weapon: Wiz Spike / PMH weapon
Shield: HoZ pdiamond / Whatever
Armor: Skullder's
Helm: Shako ptopaz'd
Belt: Rare POS
Gloves: Hellmouth
Boots: Infernostride
Rings: Nagel/Rare FCR
Ammy: Rare w/ resists & +1 skills
The boots and gloves were the key. I had resists and absorb going with this setup. Wish I'd had a GA as well ;)
I was in a 2-player game (had another char pop in to open a tp so I wouldn't have to worry about running back to town all the time). Hammers are doing about 6300 damage. With the gear I had, I was able to tank DC pretty well with max block (thanks to Holy Shield). I set up the PMH weapon on Charge since it had the best chance of hitting, about 43%, whacked a few times until I figured I'd hit DC.
DC was fairly easy, to be honest. I went through a fair handful of reds and purples but once I setup shop on DC, I never went back to town. His health just kept dropping. I didn't even bother switching back to the PMH weapon to give another hit as my hammers were doing their job quite well.
As for not finding DC that often, you can if you try. There are IRC channels devoted to finding/tracking DClone servers. If you've got more than one copy of Diablo, you could try getting both/all onto the same hot server. That way you can kill DClone more than once.
Unfortunately, last nights event was so rapid that I didn't even get much of a chance to try getting my laptop onto a sever on the same IP (the odds are generally against you but it's worth the shot). I'm going to keep trying to see if I can do this some more. I have several chars that would love an anni ;)
where to spawn him is ofc a matter of preference, but myself, i prefer to spawn him down in den of evil. This is because i have (and YOU should have too) high fire/lightning resists. The monsters in the den are: Weak melee guys or shooting fire, which means its no real problem to get alone with him. Since its a cave, there are also no big spaces to move around on, so you will know where you have him. Another bonus is that you can easily slip behind a rock, a turn or anything to avoid fire if you for instance are healing yourself. Den of evil is a good choice, weak monsters and only advantages...
GH_Foudray
29-10-2004, 22:41
Just did DClone last night with my Hammerdin so I'll give the setup and tactics.
Gear for DClone -
Weapon: Wiz Spike / PMH weapon
Shield: HoZ pdiamond / Whatever
Armor: Skullder's
Helm: Shako ptopaz'd
Belt: Rare POS
Gloves: Hellmouth
Boots: Infernostride
Rings: Nagel/Rare FCR
Ammy: Rare w/ resists & +1 skills
The boots and gloves were the key. I had resists and absorb going with this setup. Wish I'd had a GA as well ;)
I was in a 2-player game (had another char pop in to open a tp so I wouldn't have to worry about running back to town all the time). Hammers are doing about 6300 damage. With the gear I had, I was able to tank DC pretty well with max block (thanks to Holy Shield). I set up the PMH weapon on Charge since it had the best chance of hitting, about 43%, whacked a few times until I figured I'd hit DC.
DC was fairly easy, to be honest. I went through a fair handful of reds and purples but once I setup shop on DC, I never went back to town. His health just kept dropping. I didn't even bother switching back to the PMH weapon to give another hit as my hammers were doing their job quite well.
As for not finding DC that often, you can if you try. There are IRC channels devoted to finding/tracking DClone servers. If you've got more than one copy of Diablo, you could try getting both/all onto the same hot server. That way you can kill DClone more than once.
Unfortunately, last nights event was so rapid that I didn't even get much of a chance to try getting my laptop onto a sever on the same IP (the odds are generally against you but it's worth the shot). I'm going to keep trying to see if I can do this some more. I have several chars that would love an anni ;)
Hey niomosy could you please elaborate a bit on how you track/find or join (IRC=?) channels that are devoted to d-clone...thanks.
What was the gear that you used? Do you need very high level equipment to take him on solo?
I'm asking because my equipment selection isn't very robust right now. I hope to rectify it with Pit/Andariel/Meph runs with my Meteorb sorc soon.
Helmet: Shako (Um)
Ammy: Mara's
Weapon: Heart of the Oak Flail
Armor: Guardian Angel
Shield: HoZ (Um)
Gloves: Magefists
Rings: FCR+life/mana mods
Belt: Arachnid's
Boots: Silkweaves
I suppose my gear isn't exactly affordable to alot of people, but DClone went down pretty easy and I only had to drink a red pot every now and then. I think the 90 resist to fire/lightning helps a bunch. Since then I've upgraded to Enigma (I'd still keep my GA on though I think), 2 SoJ's, and I upped my HoZ so I think it would go even quicker if I met him again. (11k-11k Blessed Hammer Damage now :))
Hey niomosy could you please elaborate a bit on how you track/find or join (IRC=?) channels that are devoted to d-clone...thanks.
I hope I'm not stepping on anyones toes by answering for you. First of all you need an IRC client. I use X-Chat but mIRC is the most popular one around. Connect to the IRC network using the address irc.dclone.org. After you are connected join the channel corresponding to the realm you are on. Do this by using the command /join #uswest-dclone. You can substitute 'uswest' for 'useast' or 'europe'.
Once in that channel you will notice the topic contains (HOT: ..), (ACTIVE: ..), (COLD: ..), (WALKED: ..). These 3 categories contain the server numbers that people have reported SoJ counters on. 'HOT' means that SoJ's have been selling rapidly recently and a walk could happen very soon. 'ACTIVE' means SoJ's are selling regularly and a walk could happen sometime in the near future. 'COLD' is a server that had SoJ's selling on it but none have been reported in a while and a walk is not likely until selling picks up again. Finally 'WALKED' means the DClone has appeared on the server already.
Every time you create a new game on Battle.net your game is hosted on a unique server. To find out the number of the server your current game is hosted on alt-tab out of Diablo and open up a Windows Command Prompt (e.g. Start->Run->'cmd'). Type 'netstat -n' (minus the quotes) and up will pop a bunch of IP addresses. Look under the 'Foriegn Address' column for an IP address which ends in the port 4000 (e.g. 63.241.83.159:4000). The number you want to concentrate on is the last number of the IP address before the port number. In this case it would be '159' of the 63.241.83.'159':4000. This is the server number.
Now basically what your plan of action should be is join the IRC channel and take note of HOT or ACTIVE server numbers. Create a game and check the server number, if it matches a HOT or ACTIVE number then you have found the right server and you should wait around to see if the SoJ count continues to increase and hopefully DClone will spawn. If you did not find the right server repeat this process until you do. I recommend waiting at least 1 minute in each game to avoid a realm down. I hope this helps. Good luck with your hunt!
dont.laugh
01-11-2004, 04:33
I haven't had much success in fighting the clone with my hammerdin. The damage seems like it is doing barely any damage at all compared to his healing rate. He had like 10k damage per hammer and still it wasn't really working out. My Blizz sorc on the other hand does greatly against him.
hum we have the same problem some how...my 11k hammer does like >ii< amount of damage and then he heals >i< amount....so in the end i just gived up.
I thought Prevent Monster Heal didn't work for mercs.
Hey niomosy could you please elaborate a bit on how you track/find or join (IRC=?) channels that are devoted to d-clone...thanks.
I think Compman's writeup was pretty dead on as far as what I do. The funny thing is that all three times I've fought DClone have been from random coincidence. I never seem to have any luck finding a hot/active server off the list (there are loads of them which screws your chances a bit).
As for hammerdins having problems, get a PMH weapon on switch and whack DClone with that. Make sure your cast rate is at 50% at least. Last time I did DC was with my fcr at 50% since I swapped some fcr gear out for absorb.
Get a PMH weapon. Assuming you went for max block, you'd have enough dex to get at least a reasonable chance to hit (30% is probably good enough since you really only need to hit once). After that, start casting and keep going.
Another thing I want to point out is positioning. I had some problems with positioning on DC and wasn't doing any damage the first time I killed him. The 2nd time was better and I finally got it down pretty well on try #3. I like spawning DC in the open areas of A1 now (used to spawn at Eldritch). Gives me more room to move around and get a good spot to camp on DC.
GovernerOfCali
02-11-2004, 01:02
I hear you about him spawning by coincidence. I've sat in IRC and waited for many hours for many nights with no success.... of the 3 times I fought him, they were all just randome.... one I got the SoJ message on, logged into IRC and saw it was hot.... ok, so IRC helped me there.... but i waited from about 7:30PM until 11:30PM... I almost gave up waiting.
As for the hitting with PMH.... one of the prereques for holy shield is smite.... I was always under the impression that smite connects 100% of the time... and that if your weapon has PMH, that should also appy? If so.... just 1 smite hit should be all it takes... is that correct?
Ultimately, if somebody is making a pali for fighting DClone.... hammerdin would not be the first choice.... but if that's what you have.... you can make it work.
I would never build a character specifically for d clone killing because you don't encounter him much. It's not like you can run him or anything. As long as you have a blizz sorc or some manner of phys dmg dealer with good resist and some PMH and CB gear in the stash, you are all set.
Hmmmm. I myself as well as my friends build one char each specifically designed to take out the Uber D. Then for a week or two we just camp out and trace down every server with him on it that someone has told us about. (As someone mentioned earlier, mIRC is ofcourse how we get [and share] this information). With three or four people server surfing, and usually atleast 2 of us getting one every time its pretty succesful, especially when u get atleast a few hot servers a night. Through out the night most of the group has found an anni. You say you cant run him down, but theres a great many people out there, including myself, that do just that. And spending less then a two minutes spawning and killing him, and having other chars that can hold games while you search for other ones that he is going to spawn in lets you accumulate annis at will. Someone else allready explained this brief process of tracking him down. Scroll up and check it out if you dont know.
sk8brdnick
02-11-2004, 20:11
You don't need a weapon with PMH, you can just use blackhorns and smite him occasionally. Blackhorns is a good mask to wear anyway because of the slow, lighting resist increase and absorb. My merc wears blackhorns to keep him alive around gloams when MFing worldstone. I simply take blackhorns off him and wear it myself.
As for tracking the D clone, I had no idea... I stand corrected, you can run him...
Carolus Rex
02-11-2004, 22:13
Hey guys, is it just me or does only the euro dclone work? I'm on useast right now but does the euro ip's have sojs sold on east and west as well?
blackplague1
03-11-2004, 02:29
meh hammerdins are good in the new patch they can kill everything -_-
so max res and u can kill dclone
Masticophis
03-11-2004, 03:54
hum we have the same problem some how...my 11k hammer does like >ii< amount of damage and then he heals >i< amount....so in the end i just gived up.
This is a common problem with people that use hammerdins and arent very skilled at it. The problem isnt with your damage. The problem is with your aim. If you have 10k hammer damage and arent dealing that much damage, 2 things are possible.
1. you are in an eight player game
2. you arent hitting him very often
If you have enigma, tele onto him, and hammer away. If you dont, just change to a melee attack, run up to him and once you swing, switch to hammers. You'll notice a huge difference. Also, higher the cast rate, the more hammers you hit him with faster.
Those of you who say dont build a hammerdin for the sole purpose of clone hunting, shame on you. He's one of the most versatile builds you can make. They are easy to lvl, and with mid lvl gear, can take anything in the game, including clone.
If you'd like more information or a demostration on a great hammerdin, I am on useast hcl, lvl 94 hammerdin... X-CloneKiller ...
whisper me sometime, and i'll do what i can to help ya with questions, gear, advice, etc.
You don't need a weapon with PMH, you can just use blackhorns and smite him occasionally. Blackhorns is a good mask to wear anyway because of the slow, lighting resist increase and absorb. My merc wears blackhorns to keep him alive around gloams when MFing worldstone. I simply take blackhorns off him and wear it myself.
As for tracking the D clone, I had no idea... I stand corrected, you can run him...
This is true. I like the PMH weapon, though, as I prefer wearing my Shako for the skills, mana and life boost ;)
Lightning resists/absorb aren't really a problem for me with DC. I stay right next to him so his lightning hose never really bothers me. The fire stream, on the other hand, is the only problem my hammerdin really has. That's been pretty well resolved at this point with Hellmouth and Infernostride. I've got a Dwarf Star as well to make sure DC barely scratches me :D
Tracking DC is a pretty big thing. I really haven't had much luck with it as of yet but it's certainly possible. The trick is making sure you're in games long enough to avoid getting the temp ban :rolleyes:
dont.laugh
04-11-2004, 00:01
This is a common problem with people that use hammerdins and arent very skilled at it. The problem isnt with your damage. The problem is with your aim. If you have 10k hammer damage and arent dealing that much damage, 2 things are possible.
1. you are in an eight player game
2. you arent hitting him very often
If you have enigma, tele onto him, and hammer away. If you dont, just change to a melee attack, run up to him and once you swing, switch to hammers. You'll notice a huge difference. Also, higher the cast rate, the more hammers you hit him with faster.
Those of you who say dont build a hammerdin for the sole purpose of clone hunting, shame on you. He's one of the most versatile builds you can make. They are easy to lvl, and with mid lvl gear, can take anything in the game, including clone.
If you'd like more information or a demostration on a great hammerdin, I am on useast hcl, lvl 94 hammerdin... X-CloneKiller ...
whisper me sometime, and i'll do what i can to help ya with questions, gear, advice, etc.
lol hum i dont know wut to say i am not a noob with hammerdian i have played with them for quite a while...i can hit him since i teled right into him and actually did damage....i have no clue how some of it would miss if he didnt even move. also i had a lot of practice with hammerdian in pvp games where i have to tele around and i also did many many diablo runes b4 they all hit fine..last i am not in a 8 player game for sure.
[QUOTE=Masticophis]
He's one of the most versatile builds you can make. [QUOTE]
He's also just about the most cookie cutter and least customizable of the builds. Either you have the enigma/hoto setup, or you go with a good ole' wiz spike.
Ofcourse you know....most builds are like this.
Masticophis
04-11-2004, 14:42
[QUOTE=Masticophis]
He's one of the most versatile builds you can make. [QUOTE]
He's also just about the most cookie cutter and least customizable of the builds. Either you have the enigma/hoto setup, or you go with a good ole' wiz spike.
Ofcourse you know....most builds are like this.
Well, like you said, most builds are like that. As far as gear goes, the #4 pally on hcl east had crap gear until lvl 95. Every build has to be made a certain way, or it wont survive. Period. I mean, calling something a cookie cutter was a kid that was mad cause he made a character wrong, and he got laughed at for it. All blizz sorcs have to have the same basic build, same with orb/met, met/fb, etc. If 100 players have the same build of barb, is that a cookie cutter ? Cmon, pick a new term to play with.
Masticophis
04-11-2004, 14:44
lol hum i dont know wut to say i am not a noob with hammerdian i have played with them for quite a while...i can hit him since i teled right into him and actually did damage....i have no clue how some of it would miss if he didnt even move. also i had a lot of practice with hammerdian in pvp games where i have to tele around and i also did many many diablo runes b4 they all hit fine..last i am not in a 8 player game for sure.
I never called you a newb at playing the hammerdin build. Simply put, if you are doing 10k dmg, and cant expire the clone, you are doing something wrong. If you play hcl east look me up, i'll be happy to help find out whats going wrong.
how do you spawn him where you'd like and ive only had him pop up once in a game..and realm went down while i was fighting him =/..how can i spawn him? i see the "sojs sold to merchants alot"
@Masticophis
I really think its unfair to lump me into a category of people for using the term 'cookie cutter'. And regardless of your personal oppinion about hammerdins, and you can passive/agressive'ly insult all you want, but I'll rest my case on one statement from you....your hammerdins gear. What is he using Masticophis?
@Mr'B
You spawn him by going to a stationary super unique monster...like Rokanishu at the Carin Stones, or Coldfire in the Den of Evil, or Shenk near the Frigid waypoint. He takes the place of that super unique.
DjSlayer
04-11-2004, 21:20
@Mr'B
You spawn him by going to a stationary super unique monster...like Rokanishu at the Carin Stones, or Coldfire in the Den of Evil, or Shenk near the Frigid waypoint. He takes the place of that super unique.
There is one exception to that rule, if there is a unique monster nearby he will not spawn there. Had him walk in a game and as usuall i wanted him at elderic, but there was a boss monster there so I had to spawn him where shenk is.
- D.J.
Masticophis
05-11-2004, 15:35
@Masticophis
I really think its unfair to lump me into a category of people for using the term 'cookie cutter'. And regardless of your personal oppinion about hammerdins, and you can passive/agressive'ly insult all you want, but I'll rest my case on one statement from you....your hammerdins gear. What is he using Masticophis?
Well, its no more unfair than you calling my hammerdina cookie cutter build. A hammerdin has to max certain skills to be completely effective. Same as all builds. You wouldnt make an orb sorc, and not max the synergy would you ?
Javazons, the same thing.. you wouldnt build LF zon and not max the synergies for that would you ?
Cookie Cutter is an outdated term. Use it if you want, but I bet your characters are classified the same way.
BTW, what does my gear have to do with it ?
sk8brdnick
05-11-2004, 19:34
Hammerdins are boring to play. They only have 1 viable attack, maybe 2 if they have a decent charge. At least they were fun in 1.09 when everyone thought they sucked, but they were plenty viable. Now every boob on bnet grabs an enigma and HOTO off ebay and builds one.
As for javazons, they are fun to play. My lightning java/bowzon hybrid has 6 strong different attacks hotkeyed and uses them all frequently (strafe, multi, guided, jab, charged strike, lightning strike and lightning fury). It keeps her interesting to play. There are lots of ways to build a java with varying degrees of focus on lightning, poison, physical dmg and even bow skills, but with a hammerdin, 99% of the time you will be using BH. I guess it's blizz fault for overpowering hammers, not making magic resist or absorb for pvp and making only one hammer immune monster in the game.
Cookie cutter is not an outdated term. It's a term that blankets over powered builds like bone necs, hammerdins and windies which offer very little flexibility in terms of skill distribution.
Cookie cutter is not an outdated term. It's a term that blankets over powered builds like bone necs, hammerdins and windies which offer very little flexibility in terms of skill distribution.
Exactly. :yep:
Krushedice
05-11-2004, 23:19
I highly doubt you had 10k damage since when I fought the DClone I had only 9k and it took me less than a minute to kill him. This was without Prevent Monster Heal. Unless of course you were in an 8-player game, that would make more sense.
PMH and open wounds works on dclone? I was using gore riders and they did nada against dclone, as he spanked the heck out of my poor zon.
sk8brdnick
06-11-2004, 01:03
PMH and open wounds works on dclone? I was using gore riders and they did nada against dclone, as he spanked the heck out of my poor zon.
PMH works like a charm. As for open wounds, a few thousand dmg won't even be noticible against him. I'm not sure how much life he has, but it must be millions. OW is nerfed for ranged attacks anyway.
Howdy about the D clone battles I thought he could'nt be spawned only randomly appears so I gotta ask how'd ya do it ? I can't wait till I get to hell difficulty so I can battle the d clone too.
demonchild
24-11-2004, 12:53
natures peace works great against uber b/c cannot heal if u can get that ring hes easy w/ most char pvm builds
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