Best Bow for HoJ?

[Wmeredith]

I'm getting a little closer to saving up my runes for HoJ. What's the best bow to socket this runeword in? :scratch:

I figured it should be one of the class-specific ones, so I can get the +3 to bow skills. I also want the fastest bow possible fulfilling this first requirement, of course.

Any suggestions, or is there another runeword that is better for a bow?
(And no **** BotD comments please :grrr: , its a waste of a Zod in a bow.)

[Shanksie1337]

If it were me, i'd make it in a Matriarchal Bow. Tho i'd take a WF instead anyday, unless you are using some strange build.

[Wmeredith]

If it were me, i'd make it in a Matriarchal Bow. Tho i'd take a WF instead anyday, unless you are using some strange build.

I would take WF too except for 2 things:

A) I'm tired of begging for one. Everyone talks about how affordable this bow is, but I can't seem to get my hands on one for anything.

B) I would like to be a little bit more original than WF. I currently use a WWS with 2 Shael and it is up'ed. I love it, but I would like another good bow on switch. I wish blizzard had made another bow that could compete with WF. :uhhuh:

[Shanksie1337]

A) what realm are you on? and are you HC/SC, as i really can't see how the HoJ is the cheaper option :scratch:

B) The problem with the WF that it is simply one of the best bows, and if you are on NL where upgrading is impossible it's the best bow that you can "find". I also have a strafer using an uWWS and imo it does compete with the WF, maybe not in terms of pure damage, but the killing speed is pretty comparable imo.

[Wmeredith]

It's not cheaper at all, it's just more original, and if I'm desperately begging/searching/killing for a certain item(s) I'd rather they/it be a bit more off-the-beaten-path. Maybe I'm nuts or maybe it's pride.

Yeah I like my WWS a lot too. I have an up'd Lyc Aim with a shael in it and I like it too, but seeing the amp go off on my WWS is just too much fun. :lol:

I'm on [US East L]SC

[NBAallstar]

If you have the runes for HoJ, you should be able to afford WF easily. Anyways, if you're set on making a HoJ, use a White +3 skill 4 socket Matriarch Bow. Be warned tho that the weapon dmg will most likely not exceed 200+ dmg, while WF could potentially have 547 max dmg.

[Wmeredith]

Thanks for your comments, guys. I've decided against the HoJ bow.

[Sharaz]

but the hoj would have hella style points tho. oh well hell, my botd only has 289 dmg (i nearly always roll crap runewords). if you use a 68dmg hydra bow, you could expect a hoj to have between 258 and 292 dmg.

i made a hoj out of an ethereal colossus voulge for my merc, and it came out with over 1000 dmg. :thumbsup:

[sk8brdnick]

It depends what you want to do. A 7 frame bow with half the dmg of WF at 8 frames is very viable for pvp. A HOJ or CTA mat bow could work great as could a decent rare or even a cruel of xx.

For pvm, so many monsters in hell have high phys resist that some source of amp or decrep is very helpful, almost critical in fact. A merc with reapers toll works great, but atmas works better allowing you to use a might merc with a doom weapon.

Upped witchwild is an outstanding outstanding bow with amp built in, resists, DS, good base speed and 2 sockets. It allows a ton of gear flexibility. WF is certainly a great option but there are lots of choices as long as you use atmas. Eaglehorn doesn't look that great on paper and is hard to get up to speed but the ITD and AR boost help kill speed. A very viable choice and a bow that can be found for next to nothing because so few people like it.

In fact, many of the upped exceptional bow would work fine if you happened to find one like for instance goldstrike.

[sk8brdnick]

Out of curiosity, does anyone know what an upped WWS goes for on USWest SC NL?

[Shanksie1337]

sk8brdnick - a few HR's would be my guess, i have 2 uWWS's on EU NL, and it would take a few HR's to even tempt me to part with mine, tho you may find someone who doesn't like his uWWS.

I also disagree regarding Atma's, none of my zon's have ever used it. I'd take a Reapers anyday, and be able to use a different/better amulet instead of using an Atmas so my merc could use a different (and much more costly) weapon.

[sk8brdnick]

Atmas has it place in terms of raw kill speed. My hybrid bow/java uses a merc with reapers toll, but if I were to go pure bow I definitely use atmas because decrep radius it pitiful. To really break immunity and drop a pack quick, amp is the fastest. In general though, the reapers toll solution is excellent better it helps to keep your merc alive and is great for boss running.

Perhap the cost of upped WWS will drop after ladder 2 ends. The seasons seem to be 6 months or so, so it won't be too much longer.

[Shanksie1337]

If i were to guess, i'd say L2 wasn't even half way through yet.

[sk8brdnick]

If i were to guess, i'd say L2 wasn't even half way through yet.

I've been playing since early classic. When gauged against how long I've been playing, ladder 2 will be over in no time at all... 8-)

[Wmeredith]

I use uWWS/Shaelx2 and my merc uses Reaper's. I'd been warned against this combo b/c curses cancel each other out, but I love it. I don't care which curse they get as long as one of them (Amp/Decrep) is cast. With this combo the monsters I fight get screwed over one way or the other I like it a lot. :thumbsup:

[Shanksie1337]

i totally agree wmer, i also use uWWS/Reapers, i'd rather make sure the monsters were always cursed by some damage enhancing effect. It's so very very rare that Amp works, and Decrep doesn't when removing a PI. Still it's not a problem, it only takes 1 second to remove the mercs weapon. Besides this is on a Hybrid, so i can always use LF :)

[Wmeredith]

i totally agree wmer, i also use uWWS/Reapers, i'd rather make sure the monsters were always cursed by some damage enhancing effect. It's so very very rare that Amp works, and Decrep doesn't when removing a PI. Still it's not a problem, it only takes 1 second to remove the mercs weapon. Besides this is on a Hybrid, so i can always use LF :)

Yeah, I just like having lots of advantages over who I'm fighting. :thumbsup:

I like to see lots of CTC spells going off. I also use LoH with this setup. Its great when your strafing and your the curses are casting over one another repeatedly, your targets are getting frozen over and over, and your level 23 enchant is burning them at the same time as your throwing holy bolts like crazy. :cheesy:

Hellmouth is also fun too, just for the fireworks.

CTC spells are just one of the reasons that I love speed and more speed on a Zon.

[royalesse]

CTC spells are just one of the reasons that I love speed and more speed on a Zon.
If you like CTC, back in the day hellmouth & Goldstrike Arch were entertaining to watch. Meteor, Firestorm, & Fist of heaven just pouring down.

If you're a speed junky then why not Riphook? That's usually the speedzon bow of choice. The slow is nice too, especially in conjunction with a HF merc with Decrep. If you want to max the slow Blackhorns & Cleglaws will max the slow out at 75% and then your merc will stack Decrep & Holy freeze on them as well. Unfortunately the knockback will bounce the baddies against the walls and giving up gloves & the helm limits your ability to pump speed.

Lastly, the HoJ works really well with an exploding arrow zon. The -fire resists and the extra aura damage will get counted twice on the EA. Throw in Demon limb enchants and fire charms and you're running over most of the baddies.

O... one other thing is that you might actually want a hellrack xbow for bosses & single targets. It's slow as molasses so vs. a single target you won't need to worry about the next delay on strafe arrows. Socket it with a Nef & Ith if you're rune poor or stick in 2 bers and you have a bosskiller set up for switch and a speed combo as primary.

[Wmeredith]

If you're a speed junky then why not Riphook? That's usually the speedzon bow of choice.

It didn't strike me as an endgame bow.
Am I totally missing something? :scratch:

[royalesse]

The ED% is higher than the Witchy & Open Wounds is nice if you have no PMH. The slow is just gravy. You'll be giving up Magic Arrow, Amp and Deadly Strike.

MA is important only if you're using it as back up damage. Amp shouldn't matter as much since Decrep should be going off alot more. Deadly Strike could be made up with Highlords & Critical Strike.

Still it's up to you... Just offering suggestions since you wanted a back-up bow.

O...btw... what's your strafe rate?

[Wmeredith]

The ED% is higher than the Witchy & Open Wounds is nice if you have no PMH. The slow is just gravy. You'll be giving up Magic Arrow, Amp and Deadly Strike.

MA is important only if you're using it as back up damage. Amp shouldn't matter as much since Decrep should be going off alot more. Deadly Strike could be made up with Highlords & Critical Strike.

Still it's up to you... Just offering suggestions since you wanted a back-up bow.

O...btw... what's your strafe rate?

uWWSx2 Shael = 40
Andy's w/ 15ias = 35
LoH = 20
Highlord's = 20
-------------------------
8/2 I think with 115%.

BTW I'm pretty sure that I could lose 10% of that Ias and still be at this strafe BP. I was thinking about cleaning out my WWS and socketing it with another shael and (hopefully) an ias/min damage jewel. I'd love any advice. :thumbsup:

I also already use highlord's and razortail so I have +100% piercing and +100% deadly strike (Oh yeah and max resists in Hell) with my witchy. :uhhuh:

[royalesse]

8/2 I think with 115%.

BTW I'm pretty sure that I could lose 10% of that Ias and still be at this strafe BP.

Sorry don't know where to find a good zon speed calculator... and still if you're shaving off 10% you could get away with two IAS jewels with other bonuses. By the calculator that I'm familiar with it says 86% is needed to hit the 8/2 breakpoint.

Riphook hits the 7/2 with 60% IAS so it gives you a little more flexibility on speed but you'll need to revamp your resists.

If you're able to reach the 8/2 with 90 IAS then I'd consider an Eth and a IAS + bonus jewel. Just to increase my hit rate. The other option is a Nef if they get close to you.

Equipment wise... I've always liked Carrion wind on a strafer since it triggers the twister often and the stun gives you plenty of time to maneuver if baddies start to get close.

Edit:

Speed table from Shanskie's guide
FPS____[10]____[5]____[0]____[-10]
15/4_____0
14/4_____4______0
13/3_____11_____6_____0
12/3_____22_____15____9______0
11/3_____35_____27____20_____8
10/3_____56_____46____37_____22
9/3______89_____75____63_____42
9/2______120____102___86_____60
8/2______147____125___105____75
7/2______292____240___200____142

So it looks like you could drop 10 IAS to keep the 8/2 or you can drop 25 IAS if you don't mind the 9/2. The other option is to play around with equipment on Riphook. You'd probably need to rebuild to maximize Rip... you could toy with it on this one just to see if it's worth it to you.

[sunbearie]

Just to give an opinion, you can place HoJ in a superior +3skills Mat bow just for that extra 10% damage. Its the best bow in the game for my fire-zon :)

[Shanksie1337]

FYI the ppl at AB have revised the Strafe IAS bp's - i still use the "old" ones as listed above, the "new" ones can be found here:

http://www.theamazonbasin.com/d2/forums/index.php?showtopic=43673

so i guess it's up to you which bp's you aim for, as we are talking fractions of a second i'd say it would be quite hard to notice the difference in 1 BP in normal play, but then again i am equally sure some ppl claim they could tell the difference.

[Wmeredith]

FYI the ppl at AB have revised the Strafe IAS bp's - i still use the "old" ones as listed above, the "new" ones can be found here:

http://www.theamazonbasin.com/d2/forums/index.php?showtopic=43673

so i guess it's up to you which bp's you aim for, as we are talking fractions of a second i'd say it would be quite hard to notice the difference in 1 BP in normal play, but then again i am equally sure some ppl claim they could tell the difference.

Thanks for the info Shanksie, I played aorund with this a bit and I like the 105% BP better, personally. I could tell the difference between it and the "New" BP of 86%.

[royalesse]

Just to give an opinion, you can place HoJ in a superior +3skills Mat bow just for that extra 10% damage. Its the best bow in the game for my fire-zon :)
Just as an aside... I've tested using an HoJ on an Exploder with a strafe back up and it works fantastic. Fire damage on Exploding Arrow gets counted twice and the -20% enemy fire resists works really well in that respect.

Strafe is cheap when using HoJ since it has ITD. So all you need to worry about is pierce. Also with HoJ there's Freeze target & Blind. These are absolutely fabulous together. Freeze resets the baddie AI and Blind just makes them stand there. If you get knockback gloves they'll never get close to you. As stated earlier, I like Carrion on my strafer since the twisters give you time to fall back when needed. The baddies rarely get halfway across the screen before they just stand there either frozen or blind so the twisters would barely get to them.

All in all the special magic effects are nice but the damage wasn't fantastic. Usually I'd plow through with EA and whip out strafe for fire immunes or if my merc was getting crowded.

That's the other thing to consider is Reapers... if you like HoJ for the SME then you should ditch Reapers on the Merc. An option that you have if you want to build a EAzon with a strafe back up is to tweak the gear and get a boatload of CB & OW on her and go to town. The range penalty sucks but you're pelting them at 2 frames so you don't really notice it. The great thing is that you'll have a pretty devastating back up for just a few skill points since you'll be hitting cause of ITD and damaging via CB & OW

[royalesse]

Thanks for the info Shanksie, I played aorund with this a bit and I like the 105% BP better, personally. I could tell the difference between it and the "New" BP of 86%.
if you like the 8/2 better than the 9/2 why don't you try for the 7/2 on the Riphook?

[Wmeredith]

if you like the 8/2 better than the 9/2 why don't you try for the 7/2 on the Riphook?

I don't have one, and I don't care enough to try and find one.

I've got:

uLycander's/Shael (197%)

uWWS/2xShael (169% :grrr: )

Melody +3 Mat bow (+6 bow/xbow total)

Kuko-Shakako

I really don't need another bow unless it's something crazy like a HoJ, WF, or CTA. Bows take up too damn much room.

BTW I'd really love a +3 Mat. CTA bow. That would just be the coolest.

[hiphen]

WOOOO Riphook is the most fun bow in the game!!! Glad somebody finally has mentioned it.

[royalesse]

WOOOO Riphook is the most fun bow in the game!!! Glad somebody finally has mentioned it.
:thumbsup: :buddies: :thumbsup: