Please help my guided arrow pvp zon [Archive]

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hellzdemond

03-10-2004, 19:20

I am in the proccess of making an guided arrow amazon. My idea is to combine open wounds with poison along with physical damage. I do not know how to maintain the 8 frame per an attack break point and still have posion and open wounds. Here is my current gear

120 45
160 60
highlords
verdungos
dracs
2 20 dex 216 215 ravens
eth treks( i need the 20 strength for wf)
Windforce bow(08 1 socket not sure what to put in it.)
10 passive and magic gcs( 60,70 60 dodge avioid evade)
8x290s(yeah i know there haxed but im dueling in public so please dont flame for me putting these in here im being honest!)

This char is mainly a **** all public dueler. Strategy is simply to run far away spam guided arrow and dodge anything that comes my way. I know I will not be able to beat very good people. Who ever said public people are any good? Well thx for your help and srry i dont know if the 290s are allowed to be mentioned in here. If they are not could you kindly just ask me not to mention hacked items again. Thank you!

angl2k

03-10-2004, 19:55

i think the 40/15 jewels were also duped so you might want to change helm and armor...

hellzdemond

03-10-2004, 20:22

i think the 40/15 jewels were also duped so you might want to change helm and armor...

I think I can mention dupes can't I? I thought you just couldn't trade them on this forum? Am i wrong can someone tell me please. Also could anyone help me with my amazon like tell me bps for guided arrow or point me to a guide. I tryed the search button and all i came up with was links to 09 builds taht wherent in the least bit helpfull. :rant:

CoRRuPt-OnE

04-10-2004, 07:04

you are right. You can talk about the use of 32020s 290s and any duped items. Although it is frowned upon we wont kill you for it. :uhhuh:

Check Shanksies guide at the top and it will tell you the list of bps. GL

luis19

04-10-2004, 07:10

search for "pvp bowazon" anything within the last 6-4 months should have someone i wrote about bowazons.

120-45ias and 160-60ias are arguably the best bowazon helm/armor (of course excluding some godly rares).

Other varients include 15ias shako+coh, 15ias shako +16060, 30ias/80ed CoA, 30ias/80ed Giant skull.
Those are probably the best choices other than 160-60+120-45.

290s aren't hacked, they are duped.
DO NOT use passive gcs, they are a waste. All you skills should go into passives anyways. Get all max/ar/life scs, maybe throw in resist/psn charms if you need em. If you want to go the psn route, 100psn/x puts 290s to shame. Try getting say 100psn/20 life, rw, fhr.

Socket your wf depending on what you need:
IAS? shael
IAS/DMG pefectionist? 40ed/ias (not much of a dmg increase thou), 40/15max or min
these would also be good to socket, but hard to get:
15ias/15 resist all
15ias/7fhr
15ias/-15req

sk8brdnick

04-10-2004, 07:54

This zon won't work...

Guided arrow simply isn't that viable a skill anymore for several reasons...

1. It no longer pierces nerfing it's dmg to a fraction of its 1.09 magnitude
2. It can be evaded fairly effectively by most duelers with some skill by crafty teleporting or running in an arced pattern.
3. As you may or may not be aware, there is a minion stacking bug. Those players who teleport or use dragon flight with minions gain temporary immunity from homing attacks (and some others) while their minion is on top of them. Assassins, necros and windies will be more of less impervious to your GA.

Also, you should be aware that OW is nerfed for missile attacks. I forget the exact amount, but its significant. Perhaps someone can post OW dmg for missile attacks.

Finally, the poison stacking issues involved with missile attacks from 1.09 may have been fixed. Not sure how effective that poison will be. Once again, perhaps someone else will post more complete info here.

I'd like to conclude by saying that GA is still quite useful, but it won't dominate like back in the day.

luis19

04-10-2004, 12:51

A well built zon will still dominate. 6k+ ga at 8 frames that is guided is nothing to mess with. Pair that with decent life (over 1k, 2k even better), high passives, and anyone not stupid and you have a very dangerous build.

Obviously you have no or little experience in pvp bowazon dueling or have not played with adaquate gear and well spread stats.
Try a zon with 2k life and 6k damage and you won't be dissapointed.
That build is death to most necros unless they depry.

hellzdemond

05-10-2004, 00:49

Hmm how could a zon get 2k life?? I mean if I am putting all my points into dex then wouldnt my dmg suffer do to the lack of points in vitality? Also i understand why the 100 psn charms would be better. They have a shorter duration don't they? I tryed dueling a godly amazon with my fb/energy sheild sorc and i couldnt get near her with her guided arrows. She had way more range and ran when i did get close. Also why are 10 passive gcs a waste? I dont understand why it would be because isnt 70 percent evade from missles alot better then 60? 70 dodge means that 1/3 of the atacks wouldnt hit you. Of course 40 100 psn small charms could push some surious psn dmg. Thx for the input. I should get rid of dracs. Any suggestions on what gloves to use? I was thinking gails grasp for the 2 to passive and magic skills. Also one more question should i use a sheild and a titans on switch. And invest in one point into jab. I would already have the dex for block. I mean for melee chars. I am espically worried about teleporting ww barbs any strategys against them? I also said that i had searched the forums for a amazon bowazon guide. I guess it wouldnt hurt to check again. Your probably all sick of reading this so I will sign off. Thanks for the input!

sunami

05-10-2004, 01:17

luis19

05-10-2004, 03:17

Well since they I perfected my zons gear, but now its nearly all gone.
At its prime:
5.8k GA, 2.4k life
65% dodge and 68% critical makes this basically a necro killer. I don't recall losing consistantly to any EastNL necro, and many were good. I ended up getting called an AA'er/Scroller because I demolished all of them. Most windys went down easily, however some (very few) were good enough to kill me consistantly.

Biggest flaw with this build is that 1 mistake will kill you most of the time and you have nearly no chance vs a good ww barb/vt/smiter.

You can reach this damage/life with full inventory of max/ar/20life scs along with all ed gear.

Passive gcs are a waste, at around lvl 85, your passives will be respectively 55/65/50 (d/a/e). After maxing GA and multi (optional), putting 1 pt into jab and lightingbolt, the rest of your points will go into passives so they will already be high. Additionally, at high levels, passives increase little per level--1% every 2 lvls. The inventory space is better spent on psn/max/ar/life/rw/fhr charms.

Also another flaw is that the gear required to have a good bowazon is pretty expensive and hard to come by. These include 160-60 lite elite armors of the whale, 120-45 of the whale, eth upped titans, cruel mats.

hellzdemond

05-10-2004, 03:34

Hey Luis I hope you dont mind if I post your build from some time back, this is a copy of Luis' post:

my bowazon:

(note: pubby duels so yeah there r "dupes" and stuff u cant use in ch)

40/15 wf
120-45
160-60 99 life
verdungos
goreriders
2x 20 dex near 250ar ravens
20ias 2+passive knockback gloves
highlords

switches:
eth upped titans
um'ed ss
treks
40-15 gaze
archon coh
tgods
wisps, dwarfs
dracs
cruel ward of alcrity (40-15, shael)
cateseye
maras
cta /w lidless

dmg: (estimates)
ga:
wf 2-6.2k
cruel 2-3.5k
with coh
wf 2-5k
cruel 2-3k

titans:
jab: 3.6k
lighting bolt: 2.3k
coh
jab: 3.2k
lighting bolt: 2.6k

my d/a/e is around 58/66/50
critcal strike: 67/68

so heres the lowdown on dueling:
i use the dmg gear: 160-60 and 120-45 when i dont need resist. thats vs barbs, melee/hammer pallys, necros

titans/ss works great vs other zons, barbs, and charge pallys.
strat: throw lightingbolt at em and round around in circles or back and forth. ss is crucial vs pallys cause they can desync u. if they charge at u, shoot like 2 ga's then switch and spam ligthing bolt

coh works well with titans/ss vs trappers, ppl with psn dmg, ne elemental dmg that doesnt 1hit kill u like high dmg fb's

ive foudnt his zon to be the most complete. it can become a tank with resist gear whie still dealing decent dmg. it can counter chargers with 75block+passives.
high bow dmg can kill most pubby necros/druids and sorcs will pose little problems.
the main prob this build has r really good necros. the kind that know what they r doing.

however this build cost alot to make, but if u can make it, ull have fun clearing entire duel games solo and killing ppl with ur javs.
the javs can also trick ppl, they may thing ur a jav zon and will stay far to aviod cs so u can switch to a bow and its an ez win.

this is the best pvp zon build imo.
light javs r too eazily absorbed and in pubbys ull find too many ppl able to absorb u.
a bowazon without titans/ss will get torn up by good ww barbs and charge pallys. they also cannot take many hits from trapper and other elemental attacks
Can you please tell me your stat placement. Also if your using 160-60 and that gear you must have very high strength do to the fact that ss takes 156 some str to weild. Wf alone takes 134. Also if you are throwing javalins in the bowazon mode then your dmg will be very low. I do not see how you can get that much dodge neither. On another note i did some calculating with the 290s compared to 100 psn charms and 290s actually do more dmg in 5 seconds then the 100 psn charms do. I would like to kinda make a hyrbid so i dont get totally owned by meelee. But i would also like to maintain the amount of dmg to kill fast teleporting public casters. I was thinking only 1 into jab because my main points will be going into dodge avoid evade guided arrow and multi shot and critical strike. Maybe i will right a guide up once i get good with this because their really seems to be alot of commotions about building any pvp amazons. Their is not a single pvp post in the strategy compenduim for amazons. Amazons almost seem to have become the neglected class. Any ideas what dmg will be like with titans and a 75 block sheild and one point into jab? I already have the ias and the attack rating from all my dex to hit a paladin or barbarian. I am pretty sure my 60 avoide and 75 block will keep me safe. Any input welcome thx again people.Just one more question what are your stat placements for this? I can see you having low life and very high str which is not good for a zon.
I think i figured out ur stat placements.
20 charged strike 20 light strike 1 jab 1 psn jav 9 dodge 7 avoid 14 evade 1 magic arrow 4 guided arrow 9 multishot. This is as close as i can get to what you said. Charged strike dmg is at 2.1k 10 bolts. This build could cost a bit. I beleive that it is probably very viable though. Any1 care to input on this build and compare it to a normal bowazon? Those stats are with 5 passive gcs and 5 javalin. I dont think your bow dmaage would be nearly 6.5k. My guess would be 4.5k because your are sacrificing dex for the life and strength in this build. Man im sick of typing :P thx though

luis19

05-10-2004, 03:54

Someone besides me should just sticky everything I've said about making pvp bowazons.

You only need 1 point in jab and i HIGHLY reccomend 1 point in lighting bolt.

Passives that high are easily attainable because after maxing GA, you can spread the rest of your stats into multi, dodge, avoid, evade, critical. Evade doesn't need much and a near maxed dodge/avoid/critical is all you need.

My zon had high strength, 100 base vit, around 300ish dex. Enough strength to use -req ss and wf after anniculus. My jav dmg was relatively: 2.5-3k max jab, 1.5-3k LB (both gear dependent i.e. switching in shako/coh and stuff).

Vs casters, the biggest thing is 8frame GA with wf and 7 frame with a cruel paired with KB gloves. 4k+ GA is needed to duel effectively (5k physical damage). Most casters don't have enough life to tank GA and those that do have to get close to a fast zon to hit (hammerdins/windys).

Psn charms:
100/x > 290 anyday.
The second mod just makes up for many things a bowazon lacks such as life/fhr. And when ppl say "mass 290 noob" you can say "what 290s?"

sunami

05-10-2004, 12:17

ga-max
cs-max
ms-6
jab-1
lb-1
d/a/e-16/17/14

my base stats
str-85
dex-236
vit-206
w gear
str-137
dex-321
vit-243
life w bo-2200

hellzdemond

05-10-2004, 22:50

Jw but why 2.2k life? I mean in pubbys its pretty much one hit kills for all will 2k life really protect u all that much from another guided arrow. Thanks for clearing up with the 290s it makes sense. Why is lighting bolt so valuable? does it just trick them or what? I mean in the time it takes to throw a lighitng bolt you could of shot 2 or 3 more arrows. just one more quick question. Why is your dmg so low? I have heard people getting 7k dmg with guided arrow. Are they pure dex builds or what have they done differently?

Im thinking of writing a guide on a bowazon after i make one and figure out all the information on what works and doesnt work with a bowazon.

CoRRuPt-OnE

06-10-2004, 03:33

the difference of 500 life compared to 2k+ life is great. that low life ensures a 1 hit ko for many builds but you must also consider the builds that will not always hit you and give you a 1 hit ko. For example, bone spear wont 1 hit ko you, against another bowazon you will survive alot longer, and many melee builds that dont essentially do lots of damage wont kill you fast enough.

sunami

06-10-2004, 04:32

As said above, 1 hit ko's are delivered largely by some sorces, rest of the time higher life is much more valuable than 1k more dam. After the pvp penalty that 1 k becomes 150 or so which is further cut down by def modifiers like dr. 1 k more life lets you take quite a few more hits from most chars and shoot quite a few more ga's which makes up for less dam. I ve had both dex and vita/dex zons and the later is much more durable. My zon can get up to 2.6 life if I switch up my charms but then I sacrifice frw which is also very important. imo atleast 120 frw is necessary to chase down people and run and shoot.

Omikron8

06-10-2004, 04:59

Passive Grand Charms are a waste as pvp bowazons have a surplus of skill pts to pump up dodge/avoid/evade/critical, even if they have one in light bolt + jab. Replace the GC's with small charms consisting of any combination of life, run/walk, poison, max damage, resists.

luis19

06-10-2004, 05:19

Lighting bolt works because it is ITD and unblockable. Its damage is very gear dependant since it turns 3/4 weapon damage into light, meaning the better titans the more successful. I should also test out this with tstrokes, might be very useful vs people with max resist. Pair a low mana, always hitting (cept for passives/clawblock) attack, with kb, decent damage (eth upped 194%ed titans gave me like 3k max) at an extremely fast rate (bowazon=ias gear), with high surivability (ss+passives) and you have one nasty attack. People underestimate it. It does also trick people to believing you're a hybrid. This lead to them putting on resist/tgods which usually means less damage and dr. This also forces people to change they way they duel, giving you the upperhand. For example, a charger who charges right at you and gets say 10 consecutive LB's in the face due to KB and FHR will then try to go around you and not in a circle. This will lead to them getting alot more GA's on them and forces them to keep moving, allowing you to keep attacking.

Unless you switch to all resist gear like CoH, a zon will get 1 hit killed by lighting and FB, even with 2.5k+life (unless the sorc just sucks or went a ES route with significantly lower damage). On the other hand, 2.5k life lets you take alot more physical attacks, lower damage elemental attacks (say fire druids, hurricane, orb), and even lets you take a blizzard or 2 since the ravens will soak up most of the damage and even with resist gear the cold mastery will bring you into the negatives anyways. I don't recall dying in 1 hit from blizzard while utilizing 2 ravens + 2.4k+life, but many times I've been brought down near 1 after 1 hit.

Also consider that as a zon, your defense is your offense. They say that a good offense is the best defense and that is where the bowazon excels. Most sorcs will have no chance vs a decent bowazon. Its not that hard to run out of the way of fb and GA is guided. Blizzard misses and pair that with passives and you won't get hit might. Massive r/w will also keep you from getting hit. IMO, the only things that should hit consistantly are ww barbs, charger/smiter, orb, and other bowazons. There are exceptions though.

LordDrift

06-10-2004, 10:31

guided arrow zons with a full inventory of max charms or pd charms still can do some heavy damage if built correctly.

this would be my build
160/60ias/ 97 Life
80/30/15%DR COA
Perfect Dungos
1.08 40/15ias Wf
39" 290's or 3.20.20's
crafted 2 passive bow blood gloves
raven spiral
raven forst
highlords

on switch
lacerator + stormshield

this is probably built for clan duels

henry_hector

06-10-2004, 14:53

huge IAS/FRW + heavy poison + knockback + slow and/or freeze + drop resist worked very well for me when taking on melee chars and necros. Doesn't work well vs sorcs tho. Didn't really run that much tho, i counted on GA and knockback to keep them at bay and deliver huge physical damage, while the poison and drop resist did it's job. I use my FRW to get out of their range and use the minimap to "snipe" at them. Kinda seems like a waste to use knockback and freeze but they actually worked well together, just incase one wasn't as affective on a char.

hellzdemond

06-10-2004, 23:02

Hey you do know that jab suffers from a 15 percent dmg decrease at level one dont you? So wouldnt it be best to put 5 points into it? We already have the spare points to do so. Also how much run and walk is needed. I think someone mentioned it but i can't find it now again. Well I am going to write a bowazon guide after a bit. Just so us amazons can actually have a pvp guide in the forums!

luis19

07-10-2004, 02:54

hellzdemond

07-10-2004, 04:59

titans=2+zon, 2+ bow
anni= 1+ all skills
highlords = 1+ all skills
battle command = 1+ all skills

Only 1 point is needed in jab, even if you dont have many plus skills. No you dont have enough points to spare either, you need as much passives as possible. I only reccomend spending 3 points in the jav tree-- jab, lightingbolt + its preq.

Good point. Makes sence. I'm looking forward to building this character. Thank you guys for the help. Lil off topic but those 100 psn 20 to life small charms cost an ist or more on nl us east. So i think im going to go with 10 290s then go with 29 20 to life small charms. Should be the same basic effect as the 100 20 to life charms. Thx people!

dkay

07-10-2004, 08:34

Good point. Makes sence. I'm looking forward to building this character. Thank you guys for the help. Lil off topic but those 100 psn 20 to life small charms cost an ist or more on nl us east. So i think im going to go with 10 290s then go with 29 20 to life small charms. Should be the same basic effect as the 100 20 to life charms. Thx people!

if a smart dueler puts on plr gear then your poison wont be as effective. i heard 3/20/20s are relatively cheap in nl east. you should aim on getting 39 of those.this way your life will be boosted greatly and your multi shot ar will be much higher as well.

sunami

07-10-2004, 12:14

Just as a variant I occasionally put on um'd wf, dracks and nos to maintain 8 fps attack, and with gores 60% OW is rather devastating. People whine about poison but its the OW taking them down. I carry just 4x290s. Oh what fun, :)

luis19

08-10-2004, 01:35

OW is kinda nerfed for ranged attacks, but it works great on stuff with high life (barbs/windys) and sorcs (especially ES sorcs).

Even then, I would never use 290s, they suck as a charm. 32020s are much better, and if you want to go the psn route, 100/x is much better than 290s.

dkay, 32020s arent really cheap nor expensive. They are the median of trade really. 10x 32020s= 390ish ed ebotd zerker, 2x32020s=1xhigh rune.

Ghorne-

08-10-2004, 03:26

sorry if i sound like a bit of a newbie but i've been out of the bowzon loop for quite a while now. I just wanted to know if pvp bowzons still used multiarrow in duels. I recall it being common among all bowzons when i had mine.

luis19

08-10-2004, 03:39

Multi is still very useful vs casters since AR is typically not needed and it can be used to pressure them to get em where you want and to kill minions.

zei_incarnate

08-10-2004, 04:10

Can multi-shot pierce a necro's bone armor if you have pierce from skill/items? In my limited testing (using normal attack), an arrow would hit and damage the necro and continue past him even if his bone armor survived the attack.

sunami

08-10-2004, 13:16

Luis why are 100/x poison better than 290s? Besides the extra mod on 100s I seem to recall some posts about 290 dam not working correctly or something, is that it? Thanks

chrom76

08-10-2004, 17:19

Just some notes on my build and what I’m doing.
I’m at lvl 87 now, aim is 92

Str just enough to be at 134
vita 0 I haven’t put a single point!!
eng 0
dex all points here 438 w/ gear

40-15 wf
120-45 demon head
160-30-30 Dusk (pvp=150ias)
Highlords (for pvp)/Atma (for pvm)
2 pass/20 ias gloves
verdungo
wartravs
raven frost
carrion (may go to another raven frost)

7 sharp gcs w/ life, 20 lifers w/ any mods, 6 frw w/ any mods

I have 900 life and -55 to res to all but psn.
d/a/e 55/66/55 goal

GA dmg = 5714
MTI dmg= 3759
(don’t forget X2 the above dmg)
I can pk very will w/ this build. most chars die from the multi shot alone!

In 1.10 most pkers can kill in 1 hit, don’t waste you time trying to take hits.
Build to 1) not get hit 2) kill in as few hits yourself.

The weakness to this build are summoners, necros aren’t as bad as druids,
but the cyclone armor on druids w/ their minions make MTI, ineffective.
Switching to GA you’ll just wind up hitting minions.
Once again GA would def kill them! A druid w/out summons is dead.

Conclusion I focused more on dmg and not trying to take hits or pad res.
That’s what d/a/e are for. Use them, they work VERY well.

On that note I’m building a pvp pikezon this w/end focusing on passive skills.
Goal being 60/60/60 d/a/e. I’ll post on how well she does.

sk8brdnick

08-10-2004, 19:15

Multi is still very useful vs casters since AR is typically not needed and it can be used to pressure them to get em where you want and to kill minions.

I'm working on a zon with more focus on MS for this very reason. I never meant to imply that GA was useless, merely that against though with stacked minions or against fast moving sins, MS was a very good option. I'm going the dexazon route with maxed penetrate though I may rebuild with base penetrate as I'll probably be using multi primarily against low def casters.

I had thought that MS would be very useful (with sufficient AR) against VT, but now I think that LB is probably a better option. I dueled primarily with javazons in 1.09 and when they converted LB to 100% lightning dmg, I totally dismissed it. Luis pointed out that this means that LB can't be blocked now which of course makes it extremely useful with knockback.

luis19

08-10-2004, 20:52

1 point in penetrate is all you need. Don't bother putting in more, you still won't hit high defense often.

MS is not good vs liberators or v/ts. Use ga followed up with lb and some running.

100psn/x > 290s because the second mods of say frw, fhr, and life are much more important than psn damage.
Cyclone armor only absorbs elemental attacks and is useless vs a bowazon. Druid summons go down easily, a few multis and they are all gone. On the other hand, a necro's revives take alot of time to kill since they have more life than the already high life monsters they are summoned from.

sk8brdnick

08-10-2004, 21:26

Rebuild time!! :-(

hellzdemond

08-10-2004, 23:26

Why must 20 life charms be so expensive in non ladder usa east. This guy wanted an soj for every 3. Just a little stupid i think. That means 10 sojs for 30 of them. I think its a bit ridiculus lil off topic but anyone got any for trade? i got alot of uniques and some runes for trade.

luis19

09-10-2004, 01:42

He is overcharging you for 20 life scs. Just do cow/baal runes and pick up all the charms you find, you'll eventually find alot of life ones

hellzdemond

09-10-2004, 02:11

Would norm cows be the best? Or do you think i should go nm cows?

luis19

09-10-2004, 02:18

Anywhere with a lot of monsters, preferably hell cows. NM might work too.

HybrOI

09-10-2004, 02:21

OHEMGEEE!!!!ONEeleventyone11!!1! WAT IZ DIS BOWZAN U SPEEK OV?

JKJK Lol Luis you've inspired me to TEST out a Bowazon on Single Player. :lol:

Seems interesting...

luis19

09-10-2004, 02:24

hellzdemond

09-10-2004, 04:18

Bowazons are fun. You enter a dueling game and everyone hostiles you cause bowazons are pretty weak without good gear/ skill (knowing what to do).

And they make great necro killers. Unless they depry/sm you, you have the upperhand with a good amount of life.

Another funny thing is that without summon stack, windys and necros would be dead bout 1-2 screens away vs a good bowazon.

What would be considered good gear? My current new setup is
120 45(no life)
160 60 ias(haulberk 95 str requirment)
Eth treks(dunno where else to get str from should i go travs?)
Verdungos hearty cord
2 240 20 dex raven frosts
Highlords amulet
On switch i have
eth Titans
Storm sheild

Inventory is 9x290s anni and 30(20 to life charms) How much run and walk will i need? This is for public dueling so any bad mannered things u can think of i will use. Thx for your time. Also I dont think a good bone necro even using bone prison and decep has much of a chance against you. Dodge makes it hard to hit and guided arrow if he doesnt minion stack will appsolutely rip him apart. Along with multishot which will also elemenate his minons i dont see much of a chance for a necro. Also just another quick question. Has anyone experimented with enigma on this char? I mean it has potential how can you kill an amazon taht you cant get close to? Thx for the input!

sk8brdnick

09-10-2004, 09:03

Also I dont think a good bone necro even using bone prison and decep has much of a chance against you. Dodge makes it hard to hit and guided arrow if he doesnt minion stack will appsolutely rip him apart. Along with multishot which will also elemenate his minons i dont see much of a chance for a necro. Also just another quick question. Has anyone experimented with enigma on this char? I mean it has potential how can you kill an amazon taht you cant get close to? Thx for the input!

A good nec has plenty of chance against you, but then again, there aren't many good necs out there. A good nec knows how to use IBS at range and can spear accurately more close up. All things equal (gear and skill) it's probably pretty balanced matchup. Thankfully, every boob with no skill at all gravitates to overpowered builds like necs so you rarely encounter a skilled one. As for enigma, zons have such attrocious cast rate that teleport is of little use. Run walk is your friend.

Ghorne-

09-10-2004, 16:09

While looking through i noticed that some people tank dex with little or not vita and some a good amount of life. whats the best path these days? (pvp)

sk8brdnick

09-10-2004, 17:38

While looking through i noticed that some people tank dex with little or not vita and some a good amount of life. whats the best path these days? (pvp)

I chose to pump dex because bowzons have very little gear flexibility due to mass IAS requirements which makes it nearly impossible to get full PDR or stack resists with your bow out. It's very hard to make a zon who can tank. Additionally, one of my accounts lapsed between 1.09 and 1.10 so I lost most of my good charms. I had to make up the dmg somehow so I chose to pump dex to make up for the dmg.

It turns out that using passives for survival is extremely viable and I like the challenge.

luis19

09-10-2004, 18:56

I go for a mix if dex and vit.

I usually do:
100-120 base vit
enough strength for gear
rest into dex
Highlords is fine, but try out catseye too if you want more r/w. I suggest getting about 5x 5rw charms depending on your gear.
Wartravs will do fine, but I prefer the damage modifiers on gores. Treks are also a nice choice for the +stats and the 20 fhr.

Regarding necro vs zon. Just as a good necro knows how to use ibs, a good zon can hit people from long ranges (2-3 screens? or more). Also take into account that the zon shoots faster, can possibly have more life, can avoid bs. Pair that with kb, damage modifiers, and/or poison, and most necros will die pretty fast. A good zon vs a good necro is pretty even overall though, but without the clay golem, I highly doubt the necro would stand a chance.
hellzdemond:
You need a cta to be able to take a few hits from bs/tornado/etc. Trade you 290s for something more effective like 32020s or 3/5rw/20ar. 290s aren't that good.

chrom76

09-10-2004, 19:24

Basicly you want 400 dex w/ gear
From that point I think is all the rest into dex or all the rest into vita.

Just how much dmg do u want ot do?
A = Max dmg form weapon
B = Max dmg form items
C = ED from non weapons
D = Dex

(A + B ) * [ (C + D)/100 + 1] = Max DMG
I think that’s the equation

I also see a lot of 160/60 life combos w/ highlord’s
You need 150 ias to reach 8 frames so 160-30-30 life is a better armor, and is just a bit cheaper as people shun it.

sk8brdnick

09-10-2004, 19:35

I say pump dex all the way, 100 vitality only yields 300 life. Charms and gear are a much more significant source of life. I'd rather have the extra +500 dmg that a 100 dex investment yields (+850 with critical). It's really preference though.

chrom76

09-10-2004, 21:15

I forgot Skill DMG for GA

For GA
A = Max dmg form weapon
B = Max dmg form items
C = ED from non weapons
D = Dex
E = Skill ED
(A + B ) * [ (C + D + E)/100 + 1] = Max DMG

For MTI
A = Max dmg form weapon
B = Max dmg form items
C = ED from non weapons
D = Dex
(A + B ) * [ (C + D )/100 + 1] = Pre DMG
Pre DMG *3/4 = Max DMG

hellzdemond

09-10-2004, 21:38

Yeah i know i need go get cta yet. Also why trade the 290s i cant afford 40 100 to psn 20 to vita charms. So 290s and a combo of 20 to life charms would be the next best thing.

40 vita psn charms=4k psn dmg 800 life
8x290s= 2.3k dmg 600 life

As you can see the dmg on this will suffer as will life but lets look at the costs.
40x100 psn 20 life charms ist a peace
8x290s ist a peace 20 to life charms are cheap

I lose 1.7k psn dmg and 200 life but save 32 ists in trading.

Can you think of any cheaper options and on usa east non ladder 3 20 20s are worth 1.5 290s a peace so there not really the median of trade

luis19

10-10-2004, 02:12

cows/baal:
ID all charms you find.

Poison damage isn't really good. Vs max resist, the damage is pretty low and its over a period of what? 10 seconds.

hellzdemond

10-10-2004, 05:03

cows/baal:
ID all charms you find.

Poison damage isn't really good. Vs max resist, the damage is pretty low and its over a period of what? 10 seconds.

Thats true i never thought of it that way. Of course getting 3 20 20s would mean id have to ebay like hell or trade like hell to get them. And that could cost just a lil bit for what 120 more dmg? and 800 life and 800 more ar.

Cyddry

10-10-2004, 12:41

800life when u only have about 1000 means a lot :)

ah, and it add more than 3 dam per sc, its calculated with skill and dex too I think

hellzdemond

10-10-2004, 15:58

So what should i put in my inventory? I am looking for somthing fairly cheap. I cant afford 39x32020s to put in their nor can i afford 39x290s or 100 psn 20 to life charms. So what should i do? I thought the 8 290s would be best because i sitll get reasonable life and psn dmg. Although u guys seem to think psn dmg is a bad idea alltogether.

sk8brdnick

10-10-2004, 19:03

I like to have a bit of poison, but there is no need to go crazy with it IMO. If you are poor ditch the 3/20/20's in favor of charms that grant life. WF has an obscene amount of +max dmg so you can get away with less than ideal charms. Just round up the best charms you can and as you find better ones keep upgrading. Sure those 3/20/20's help, but with time you find decent legit charms. My zon will be using mostly vitas with some nice charms I found like 3/16/15 and a 9/54/24 grand.