My Jabber Build

[shaftstop]

Hey all,
Reciently I made a amazon "pure" javazon none of these silly wannabes that are actually lightning fury or charged strike zons, which was mighty annoying joining a dueling game and seeing like 8 zon's all bascially 1-hit koing each other, It was like watching Fire sorcs Fireball each other. Pretty dull and pointless. So I attempted to break this mold by playing a pure javazon. However Im having alittle bit of a problem getting some gear balance.

The problems I seem to run into is either a lack of IAS or Defense.

This is what she looks like so far...

Character level : 83
Life : 1121
Defense : 2729
Jab Damage : 1072-2082
Jab Attack Rating 12,849 (without Demon limb)

Stats
STR: 236 (145 base)
DEX: 186 (155 base)
VIT: 205 (185 base)
Skills
20Jab
20Pentrate
10innersight
12 critical strike
11 dodge
7avoid
11evade

Points will be aimed towards innersight (With gear I get -440 defense to my opponent which I found is very very useful even against exile paladins) although I still think I may have fubbered her skills. at level 11 shes only 49% Evade and Dodge. Critical Strike is 58%.

Gear
Helm : Andariels Visage *110 ED* with a 15IAS jewel (35% IAS)
Amulet: Angelic Amulet
Armor : Currently Upp'd 196% Shaft with a 28% ED jewel
Belt: Tgods (junk one i mostly wear for the vit/str)
Gloves: Draculs - Magnus' Skin (20ias + ar bonus)
Ring: Raven Frost
Ring: Angelic Ring
Shield : Stormshield with Eld socketed to help soften the dex requirement for max block.
Weapon: 205% ED Demon Arch
Boots: Gore Riders

So, with that I've been having abit of a problem in the def/ias I had come up with a couple ideas.
My First Idea was to use Gladitors Bane, with a 15% IAS jewel then replace the raven frost with Angelic ring so I could double my AR and Life.
But my defense still hurts abit, I dont know if im expecting to much Im using to playing paladin/barbs build so seeing 15k defense + wasnt uncommon.
The other possbility was getting a high defense 3 socket armor and making lionheart or duress.
Getting a Verdungo is definitly up on the list.
I really enjoy/like demon arch and im trying to get ethereal ones but im startering to considering the possibility of getting a 200% Ed Titans or Upped Titans (ethereal is far to expensive atm)

Other then that any suggestions would be great.

[Kirsty]

Well... the first thing that I notice is that you picked strength to increase your damage, but dexterity will do just the same. Instead of putting all those points into strength you could have put them into dexterity for more damage, attack rating and blocking. OR does the upped shaft just require that much strength?
Keeping dexterity low on first sight doesn't seem like the most logical choice to me since it helps three things whereas strength only helps damage. If you had increased dexterity you could have picked a different shield socket like a nice enhanced damage jewel or an IAS jewel.

Regardless of this I don't think the setup looks all that bad. It's nice to see you have experimented with inner sight, but against characters with 20000 defense it doesn't help greatly... but of course every small gain helps. Your dodge, avoid and evade look decent but they're not very high. You might want to try and get some +passive skills from something like +2passive 20% IAS rare or crafted gloves, charms or perhaps some gear switches such as an (ethereal) (upped) titans revenge which will probably also increase your damage. I would go for a normal ethereal first before trying to get an upped one. They are supposed to be less expensive.
Titans Revenge is also a weapon that has a faster base speed and thus requires less IAS for jabbing. If you look on the amazon forum FAQ you can find the breakpoints for both weapons.

[mgill1772]

just a quick one, but i think that titans gets higher damage mods off of str, can u verify this kristy, but i agree a diff socket option in shield would be adivsable, some like shael, some like pdiamond/um for resist. some peeps have gone away from dracs in duels as well cuz of lifetap but if you are fighting exilers i see now problem there, perhaps lavagouts for more AR after enchant triggers, enchant from demon limb is frowned upon by some, but lava gout enchant is granted in the duel and most dont oppose this use of gouts....depends on where ya play, i also believe u can get a lil more outta a high + to max in the sheild over ed, but they are hard to acquire on ladder. good luck

aww left off something, once u get your verdungoes, id swap out that shaft for an eth stone

[shaftstop]

The reason strenght is so high is because honestly I dont have a lot of +strenght gear/charms, the damage is great via +Str as well as apposed to dex which does boost my blocking and ar, but jab didn't seem to gain as much.
My vit I was thinking about capping at 195-200base the gains in vita -> life
Didn't seem to be all that much, or maybe I am just seeing things. But I think 190 maybe be enough? either way I wil generally be devoting more stats to dex for sure. From level 85 + for sure.
As for Innersight, it helps. A lot more then people realise I think thats why I picked it and it will probably be next skill I max. In a small terst even against a exile paladin (smiter I regularly lose too lol) We noticed even for -440 defense I've gotten a 40% better chance to hit and with 18k AR after enchant it goes up further so I think its a very useful skill. but I think its one of those all or nothing skills because level 1 even with +skills you wont get much more then 100defense knocked off so you really need to max it, I think.

I would like to raise Dodge and Evade to skill level 12, because that will give me exactly 50% in skill, so with passive skill gcs (which I do plan on getting because I understand that I wont have the defense of barbs and paladins heh so being able to dodge well helps) watching dodge animations with hammerdins teleing on you and casting is kinda fun to watch ><

But I think I agree with Titans the +20str/Dex will be extremely useful and base speed is much faster then balrog spear. Im thinking I need atleast 60IAS excluding the 30 already on demon arch to get decient speed, because with magus skin +andy w/ 15ias jewel Im signifcantly faster but still to slow I especially notice it vs zealots.


PS, Upp'ed Shaft is 30% Dr 60life and because its "boneweave" it requires 158 str to wear but fir 1465 defense (196% ED) I think its worth it.
As for wearing draculs, I wear it because not only for lifetap (I know i can't out tank a barb or exile paladin, the open wounds is vital and +str adds to damage as well. I think possibly taking eld out and putting in another ias or ed jewel may be a good idea I only put eld in so i didn't have to use nearly as much dex for blocking and use it for vit. :)
Enchant, I've never heard of anyone complaining about it, I play on uswest ladder and I can honestly say i dont see many ppl going out of there way to enchant, but aslong as people insist on using blackhorns - > Exile and legit iths (botd) I believe "All is well in love and war" even slow missle on chain lite sorcs ;)

[luis19]

First off, defense should be last priority in choosing gear. Barbs and pallys easily ger 15k+ ar without angelics so the small d you obtain shouldn't be considered much in deciding gear.

I reccomend this gear:
Dusk Duress
Titans
verdungos (or strings if you dont have and plan to use duress for max DR)
Get as many max/ar/life sc/lc/gcs as possible. Passive gcs wont help much.

First off, the base stats of your zon are too high. You could go for alot less strength and pump dex/vit instead.
With duress, gores, dracs, you obtain 68% OW which will greatly help killing speed.

Titans are a must. Faster, +dex/strength, good damage, and adds +skills which result in more passives/damage/ar.

[Kirsty]

Shael in a stormshield doesn't help you reach a better blocking frame, so I disadvise that. Demons Arch has some nice elemental damage which means that its damage isn't necessarily lower than that of Titans Revenge.

You want something along the lines of 100% IAS for optimal effectiveness with titan's revenge although you can do well enough with only 65% or 40%... you have to test it a bit yourself.
Forget my last reply on inner sight. I forgot that the reason why inner sight helps is because it lowers the base defense before it gets multiplied by %defense skills such as defiance and holy shield. I mentioned 20000 defense but those people tend to have +500% defense, so their base would be along the lines of 700% so their base would be 2500. With 450ish lowering their defense will become around 16500, quite a difference. Thinking upon it more, inner sight reaches values up to 2500 in the extreme +passive focused cases which would nullify your opponents defense.
I think it may indeed be a good idea to max it. Level 20 will get you a lowering of 815, whereas level 30 gets you 1615. I think it's worth it indeed.

I'm not certain if open wounds damage stacks with itself so having a high percentage may not be necessary.

[shaftstop]

open wounds does indeed stack I believe it all does to a certain point you just can't have over a 100%, I'd have to check another class forums theres a really really good write up about those skills.


"...Passive gcs wont help much..."

I tend to disagree with this because anything that will up my pentrate/dodge/evade and Critical strike and inner sight will be extremely useful since I am escentually going toe to toe. You've heard of BvB well this is a AvB ;)

"Titans are a must. Faster, +dex/strength, good damage, and adds +skills which result in more passives/damage/ar."

Im half and half with this for atleast 2 reasons, demon arch has alot more damage because of elemental damage, the intial 20str and +skills on titans are what help bring up the damage/speed.
I think if I found a 205% ED Titans, and equipted it Im pretty sure the damage would be close but i think demon arch would probably come out higher. As for run walk Ihave no reason to run away or too an ooppentent, I've heard from the last 15 fights zon's not a chaser, WW barbs get alittle choked because I refuse to move. so they have to come back and WW across/near me again, all I have to do is block/dodge and/or step infront of them and jab, from personal exp with a WW barb I know better then to chase a barb WWing away from you. The hits connect harder ><
I disagree though that titans are a "must" I think Demon Archs are great the problem is speed.


"...First off, the base stats of your zon are too high. You could go for alot less strength and pump dex/vit instead..."

Im partial to this as well I agree that I could have less str, but i am not rich, I can't afford CoH or engima which are the only cases I would take less strenght. I disagree that my stats are to high sololy because upp'd shaft and Stormshield require 150+ str as it is Im only 145, most my damage comes frm Strenght, as where when one uses a bow dex becomes the factor. All I need dex for is miminal AR and getting max block, I agree that Vit should be alot higher though. As I level I will be supporting both dex and block.


Vitality (20) + 3 to Life, + 1 to Stamina (start) per point
Life (50) +2 For each level

I think stopping at around 200 base vit would be a good idea after gear, I'll still have a good chunk of life and vitality I think.
Keeping Dex at around 165-170 should be sufficent in keeping up with blocking demands. at level clvl85 I only need 192 to achieve max block.
I noted with fixed 165 str/dex I had 832-1737 jab damge with +1 dex I gained +1min and +2max damage. But since I do not have a +1 str charm right now thats clean (other has lightning damage) I can't say for certain which is better but simply taking dracs off I've noticed a loss of atleast 30max damage. So I could only assume str plays a similar role probably alittle more with melee then ranged attacks, being dexterious to swing an axe doesn't seem right lol. (eg of course;) )

[luis19]

Add a hel or -15 req jewel into you ss.

Titans is hands down better than demon arch. Demon archs massive elemental damage is resistable as well. It lacks speed to, which is crucial for a jabber. You said you need more ar, passives, damage? Titans has pretty good damage and 2+zon 2+jav on it. Thats a nice boost.

You don't need engima or coh for this build. Duress is probably the best option and its not that expensive to make, highest rune is um which you can get from forges.

I said passive gcs won't help much because consider that 3 scs or 1 gc with ar/life/max/strength/dex are much more effective in boosting your damage. Also at high lvls, passive skills like d/a/e have diminishing returns.

Add 1 point into lightingbolt, add a bow to ur zon with 1 pt ga and you will be able to duel all around. Then the r/w should help significantly. Also helps when lvling and running between duels (to akara and stash).

[shaftstop]

"Add 1 point into lightingbolt, add a bow to ur zon with 1 pt ga and you will be able to duel all around. Then the r/w should help significantly. Also helps when lvling and running between duels (to akara and stash)."


With all my elemental/psn damage, I find a +4 Widowmaker and Tgods with the +3 Lightning Fury and +2 from ANdy helm helps a great deal for distance dueling (ie caster fights especially necros.) Slow missles and they already give up or try to tele on me which just sets them up for a pounding as it is.

Adding -15Req Wont do anything for me when I can put something more valuable such as Eld for upping my chance to block or ED/IAs or just ED or even just IAS. Having 133 str helps my dex, but dex doesn't give that much, and Im still short/risk of being popped when I die. Ie I use a Witch Wild for Switch vs Stationary range attackers (hammerdins mostly)
Im really confident in my aim that I dont need to waste points in Bow skill tree, when I can max my innersight :) or get it higher. When I can afford it I can pick myself up a Widowmaker for the GA effect, but i think thats pointed wasted I could pump up my damage via critical strike or hamper players defense via Inner sight, or work on my ability to dodge/evade (slvl 11 its 49% -- at lv 12 I get 1pt increase so at this point yes, its a waste to put points in them. because the returns are worthless, but I still feel Passive GC can be very helpful for all skills rather then devoting skill points to areas that already have bad returns. So I can use the point to increase use skills like innersight, which is a must because it doesn't matter what weapon you have, eth up'd perf titans isn't gunna cut through 35k 6o cta exile paladins without some help from Inner Sight.
Using 500+ def Dusk Shroud, isn't my style for duress, because the way it works is, what your shield doesn't stop your DR% softens whats left your DR can't protect you from (other 50% of damage) Your defense is there. What your defense can't deal with your passives will try and avoid, and when thats all said and done your life is next so I agree that HP needs to get higher. I dont agree that risking defense and what little defense I have, for open wounds is worth it. Unless I do it in high defense armor and using higher base defense armor like hellforge plate or something. Especially superior hellforge. or Boneweave, which are medium and light weight armors, so it will save me some r/w but thats not a big deal, first thing I learned in the testing phases of this build was, chasing = bad. lol.


"Demon archs massive elemental damage is resistable as well.It lacks speed to, which is crucial for a jabber"

In this case I agree, it does lack speed, but even max resist It can't block all the elemental damage. Yes, some of it can be resisted but the fact im already doing 2k+ damage without enchant, I hardly find elemental damage a concern.
100% naked with just Demon Arch and Jab skill set, I am 621-1358 Jab and 3769 attack rating with 145str 155 dex and slvl 20 pentrate.
So I really dont see the harm in 145base Str at all. And dex is pretty steady, which also increase as I level using calculator I know I need atleast 192 w/ gear to keep 75% CoB at character level 85. Rest goes to the hips errr vitality.
I have +ar and a couple min/max/ar charms as well as some FHR sc's for the dreaded smiters which are probably one of the few classes I have trouble with right now. Smiters/FOH and Lightning zon's but thats more of a resist issue, Im devoted to mostly being able to tank a good barb WW or zeal hits.
Then fighting casters.
Oh, and note, I will not give up any armor/jewelry for +passive gear. Unless I find a really nice pair of Blood crafted gloves if thats possible to get CB/str/ias +passive but i dont think thats possible. ><

[luis19]

1 point LB + kb will take care of most smiters.

The -req jewel will allow you to put those point from strength into dex that will increase you block, damage, ar, and a little defense, while strength only increases damage.

Dusk duress can reach what? 1.3k+ defense. Eitherway, defense on a zon shouldn't be top priority. OW is much more important than defense for a zon.

The thing you're not seeing is that titans is much better than demon arcs all around. Speed, ar, +skills, r/w, +stats, possibly higher damage. Demon archs just won't cut it.

Also another thing you aren't seeing is that you have put defense/strength as a priorty over more important things such as AR(pump dex instead of strength) and OW. Jab damage can't compare to high zeal/conc/fury damage. Your only advantage is your passives (dodge) which allows you to deal more damage. Since physical damage is already low, pumping up critical and complementing that with damage modifiers such as CB and OW is necessary.

[shaftstop]

more important things such as AR(pump dex instead of strength) and OW. Jab damage can't compare to high zeal/conc/fury damage. Your only advantage is your passives (dodge) which allows you to deal more damage. Since physical damage is already low, pumping up critical and complementing that with damage modifiers such as CB and OW is necessary.

nod, I know this but your missing the whole Im packing 17k+ AR its only 12k without the enchant effect and I still get like 16k base without enchant, but I've considered all these points greatly. As for str, Im firm on my descision about str145 base allows for so much more flexability in every aspect then lessand more dex. Like I said I've use calculators to check my blocking and how much dex i will be needing exactly and its planned out for the target level.
I never put str/defense a head of the rest of the build but I knew what gear I wanted to wear what those requirements where and how to go about achieving them the only problem I had was IAS issue and defense, if defense has been my issue that should be clear enough that it wasn't a priority.
I tried out Ethereal 168% Ed Titans, I found the damage to be significally weaker, although the attack speed of my jab was much better with a increase in AR, it just couldn't keep up with demon arch and found i ended up switching back even though I was slower.

With Eth titans, I was 802-1381. With Non Ethereal 205% Demon Arch I was
1069-2046, the AR was much better though that much I do agree with no enchant Arch gave me 12604AR vs the Eth Titan which was 14502AR. Now if this was 200% Ed Eth titans, I dont know, Im sure damage woulda have been closer to the demon archs, but i think eth 210ED Archs would dwarf a Eth 200% Ed Titans. I cannot say much though seeing as I had a low grade titans to work with and it wasn't a really accurate test.

[Kirsty]

The damage difference is understandable, because of the elemental damage on the demon's arch. Elemental damage is negated more easily than physical damage so this extra damage may not always make much of a difference after all. Perhaps you should test both in pvp before you make up your mind.

[shaftstop]

The damage difference is understandable, because of the elemental damage on the demon's arch. Elemental damage is negated more easily than physical damage so this extra damage may not always make much of a difference after all. Perhaps you should test both in pvp before you make up your mind.

nod, I've used Demon arch very very successfully so far :) so thats why I stand by it so firmly I ever asked a paladin to wear GA + Salvation Aura (i think thats the res aura) to get 95+ res, and he was a zealot using some really outstanding gear, it ripped me apart a few times heh eth zod valor thh dc berber coa exile ect. I did as much damage as I did with his regular gear only advantage was I could actually kill him this time because he wasn't wearing all his pvp gear, just res stuff I agree though only way I'll know for sure is if I try both and see if they make any difference.

[hulla-hop]

hiya, havent read thru the whole thread, but wanted to chime in with my experience.

I made a jabberzon as my second pvp-char after making a wolfbarb. The gear she wears is:

eth upped titans
Duress
Dual raven
highlords
+2 p&m, 20ias +othermods gloves
gore riders upped
storm w/ ias-jewel
45ias bone visage(hoping to get ed/ias some day)
verdungos
im reachin 4.5 fpa
some allres gc, 2passive skillers, and various max/ar/mod charms and some frw/fhr too. reaches 86 fhr bp, sucky res tho :)


skills:
20 jab
20 inner sight
20 critical
20 penetrate
1 in slow missiles - just for pissin of necros :)
some point into the dodges to get decent %

and after testing, i mus say that inner sight kicks tremendous ***
i dont know how it works exactly, but it lowered a barbs defense from 22k to 8k...thats pretty neat if you ask me, and certainly helps the lackluster ar on this girl. got around 10k. she cant kill the cookiecutters but is certainly funny to play