More Dirty Tricks: Republicans mail campaign literature: Liberals will ban the bible

[llad12]

Another new low has been reached this campaign season:


The Republican Party acknowledged yesterday sending mass mailings to residents of two states warning that "liberals" seek to ban the Bible. It said the mailings were part of its effort to mobilize religious voters for President Bush.

The mailings include images of the Bible labeled "banned" and of a *** marriage proposal labeled "allowed." A mailing to Arkansas residents warns: "This will be Arkansas if you don't vote." A similar mailing was sent to West Virginians.
A liberal religious group, the Interfaith Alliance, circulated a copy of the Arkansas mailing to reporters yesterday to publicize it. "What they are doing is despicable,'' said Don Parker, a spokesman for the alliance. "They are playing on people's fears and emotions."

In an e-mail message, Christine Iverson, a spokeswoman for the Republican National Committee, confirmed that the party had sent the mailings.

"When the Massachusetts Supreme Court sanctioned same-sex marriage and people in other states realized they could be compelled to recognize those laws, same-sex marriage became an issue,'' Ms. Iverson said. "These same activist judges also want to remove the words 'under God' from the Pledge of Allegiance." ...

An editorial on Sept. 22 in The Charleston Gazette in West Virginia, for example, asked, "Holy Moley! Who concocts this gibberish?"

"Most Americans see morality more complexly," the editorial said. "Many think a higher morality is found in Christ's command to help the needy, prevent war and pursue other humanitarian goals. Churchgoers of this sort aren't likely to believe childish allegations that Democrats want to ban the Bible."

In statement, Senator John Edwards, the Democratic vice-presidential nominee, said President Bush "should condemn the practice immediately and tell everyone associated with the campaign to never use tactics like this again." NYT (http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/24/politics/campaign/24bible.html)

The mailing (http://www.steveclemons.com/GOPMailer.htm) sent by the RNC.

This is totally despicable and underhanded.

Once again, the Republican party is playing the "fear factor" on the electorate.

What audacity ... what arrogance!

The Sojourners (http://www.sojo.net/index.cfm?action=sojomail.display&issue=040929#3) had a few choice comments on this subject:


Republicans seem to be demanding that religious people vote only one way - their way. What the Republican Party is doing in these mailings is claiming that the religious vote in American belongs only to them and disrespecting the faith of all believers who disagree with their political agenda or candidate.

It also must be said that the Republican disrespect for Christians who disagree with them runs right along racial lines. The members of black churches will be likely be voting overwhelmingly Democratic this election, as they have for many years. If President Bush is being presented as the only moral choice, what exactly is the Republican Party saying about the faith of black Christians? Does the president not know that millions of Christians, including many evangelical Christians, disagree with him on the war in Iraq, on his budget priorities and tax cuts for the wealthy, on his dismal performance in poverty reduction, or on his policies that so negatively impact the environment? What is he saying about their faith with mailings like this one? I agree with them on this subject.

I leave you with this Sojo Motto:

God is not a Democrat or a Republican.

Hang your head down GOP:rant: You reek of sewer slime


---------


What do you think about this?

Your comments (esp. from our resident right-wing pundits) would be appreciated.

[maccool]

I find it hilarious. Hilarious that the RNC thinks so little of their consituency's intelligence. Hilarious that wedge issues continue to dominate this forum and the US. Hilarious that liberal is seen by some as a dirty word. Just all around hilarious.

What's not hilarious that the two political parties see us as idiots. Of course they're correct, we keep voting for them.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled flamewar.

[LunarSolaris]

I fart in the general direction of current and future political debate.

[Ash Housewares]

I fart in the general direction of current and future political debate.

every direction?

*tries to hide*

[Bakerking31]

have you heard about the liberals sending fake draft cards saying that you will get drafted if you vote for bush? its put out by rock the vote. also last election the liberals made a last ditch effort to sway the vote in florida and said that the seniors social security would get shafted if bush was in office. So both sides are doing it. but the liberal side has alot more funding with the likes of the moveon.org billionaire funding them.

[DrunkPotHead]

have you heard about the liberals sending fake draft cards saying that you will get drafted if you vote for bush? its put out by rock the vote. also last election the liberals made a last ditch effort to sway the vote in florida and said that the seniors social security would get shafted if bush was in office. So both sides are doing it. but the liberal side has alot more funding with the likes of the moveon.org billionaire funding them.
But moveon.org was condemned by Kerry. He has nothing to do with it. The messages in the first post however are sent out by the RNC, which is directly affiliated with Bush...

[Suicidal Zebra]

have you heard about the liberals sending fake draft cards saying that you will get drafted if you vote for bush? its put out by rock the vote. also last election the liberals made a last ditch effort to sway the vote in florida and said that the seniors social security would get shafted if bush was in office. So both sides are doing it. but the liberal side has alot more funding with the likes of the moveon.org billionaire funding them.

Mwahahahhahhahhahaaaaa

*wipes eyes*

Oh crikey, this place is a laff a minute.

[IDupedInMyPants]

Rock the vote is MTV, man. Democrats and Republicans don't have anything to do with that. Turn on MTV for a few minutes and you'll no doubt see at least one of their various rock the vote commercials that try to tie worst case scenarios of contemporary political issues to today's youth in order to scare them into voting.

The whole "Hey look at Florida; your vote counts" strategy didn't do jack for them, so they're playing along with the political strategy that actually works.

[Freemason]

The Republican lie about banning the bible should be stopped at the same time the lie about the "impending draft" is stopped.

Fair's fair.

[DrunkPotHead]

The Republican lie about banning the bible should be stopped at the same time the lie about the "impending draft" is stopped.

Fair's fair.
Like i said before, one is done by a group not endorsed by the democrats, so there is nothing they can do about it. The bible one however is done by the RNC...

[Bakerking31]

Like i said before, one is done by a group not endorsed by the democrats, so there is nothing they can do about it. The bible one however is done by the RNC...

actually the draft bill was put into congress by democrats.

[DrunkPotHead]

Im talking about sending out mailing to people using stupid scare tactics. The bible mailing are done by RNC, the other one by moveon.org which has been denounced by Kerry. See the difference?

[tydon]

Then how come it was the democrats that introduced the bill to reinstate the draft in an attempt to drive fear into Americans hearts? How can you explain the DEMOCRATS not being associated with that.

Oh wait, I forgot, democrats are all perfect outstanding american citizens and would never try to sway the vote with , as you said, "the "fear factor" on the electorate. "

Perfect democrats, never do anything like that, it is only the evil republicans that REEK OF SEWER SLIME? By the way, I am reporting you for that intentional and offensive flame...

That was not called for at all, it could have been a civil discussion until you start insulting people.

[Bakerking31]

Im talking about sending out mailing to people using stupid scare tactics. The bible mailing are done by RNC, the other one by moveon.org which has been denounced by Kerry. See the difference?

i see what you are saying, but i dont believe that kerry is opposed to moveon.org, because of the simple fact that they spend millions to get him elected, just like the swift boat vets with bush, they have no ties to bush, but they support him.

[DrunkPotHead]

Then how come it was the democrats that introduced the bill to reinstate the draft in an attempt to drive fear into Americans hearts? How can you explain the DEMOCRATS not being associated with that.

Oh wait, I forgot, democrats are all perfect outstanding american citizens and would never try to sway the vote with , as you said, "the "fear factor" on the electorate. "

Perfect democrats, never do anything like that, it is only the evil republicans that REEK OF SEWER SLIME? By the way, I am reporting you for that intentional and offensive flame...

That was not called for at all, it could have been a civil discussion until you start insulting people.
How did i start insulting people again? What im saying is the actual sending out mailings to people to scare them, not politics. There's a difference?


Edit:

i see what you are saying, but i dont believe that kerry is opposed to moveon.org, because of the simple fact that they spend millions to get him elected, just like the swift boat vets with bush, they have no ties to bush, but they support him.

Kerry publicly denounced moveon.org. What more do you want from him?

[maccool]

Rock the vote is MTV, man.

Yeah, but MTV is owned by Viacom which also owns CBS. Obviously, since at least one employee at CBS is critical of Bush, Viacom and by extension, MTV must be against Bush.

Wow, I think I channeled Sean Hannity for a second there. Nevermind that Viacom received 1812 million USD (http://www.ctj.org/corpfed04pr.pdf) in tax breaks FY2001-2003. They obviously want Bush gone.

[Freemason]

Ever heard of Bernie Goldwater? The guy that wrote Bias? He worked for CBS, he knows how liberal they are.

The thing that is really interesing about their liberalism is they have no frame of reference. Because virtually everybody there is liberal, they have been conditioned to believe that they are mainstream and conservatives are way off to the right.

Good thing is that conservatives have FOX News, talk radio and the internet to get all the news, not just what the mainstream media deems newsworthy. Such as the good that is hapening in most of Iraq. Iraq isn't just Abu Ghrab (sp?) and the roadside bombs.

[rplusplus]

Fear Works.

R++

And to add to my simple reply... All Politicians and their camps and all politics in general need to keep an ample supply of fungicide on hand. As the Captain said in Romeo and Juliet... All are Punished!

[Suicidal Zebra]

Fear Works.

R++

And in related news, Fear Sells.

[llad12]

Perfect democrats, never do anything like that, it is only the evil republicans that REEK OF SEWER SLIME? By the way, I am reporting you for that intentional and offensive flame....
I see that The fires are burning and the flames are getting higher ...

By the way Tydon, I wrote that phrase, so report me if you wish, but lay off of DPH.

Considering the arrogance of the RNC, I doubt Freet will give me a lot of grief.

-------



One other thing Tydon, better don all your school's Halloween colors on October 30th. You may need to clutch those colors as your team descends into the fires of Hell and depths of despair following the Sooners' victory over your beloved OSU Aggies. We will rip you a new one. :lol:

[maccool]

actually the draft bill was put into congress by democrats.

And some Democrats' names were on a bill to repeal the Miltary Selective Service Act. What's your point? Oh right, let's lump everyone into a group and criticize independent thought.

It's HR 487 for the 108th Congress.

[Xynrx]

I'm sorry I just had to say this... *snicker*

But if the democrats do end up winning, can we try and ban the bible anyway?

Kerry could push for a Constitutional Amendment, hell, if Bush can pull this BS why can't Kerry?

[tydon]

I see that The fires are burning and the flames are getting higher ...

By the way Tydon, I wrote that phrase, so report me if you wish, but lay off of DPH.

Considering the arrogance of the RNC, I doubt Freet will give me a lot of grief.

-------



One other thing Tydon, better don all your school's Halloween colors on October 30th. You may need to clutch those colors as your team descends into the fires of Hell and depths of despair following the Sooners' victory over your beloved OSU Aggies. We will rip you a new one. :lol:

I am glad that my halloween colors are crimson and grey and they dont go anywhere near the sooners this year...



How did i start insulting people again? What im saying is the actual sending out mailings to people to scare them, not politics. There's a difference?


Edit:


Kerry publicly denounced moveon.org. What more do you want from him?

I forgot to put a change in addressing who I was talking to in my post. The first mini para was directed at you, the rest was directed at llad12, whom I was directing it at by showing the statements he said. Just forgot to put that that part was aimed at him. Sorry if it made you mad, the rest of it wasnt aimed at you.

EDIT


And some Democrats' names were on a bill to repeal the Miltary Selective Service Act. What's your point? Oh right, let's lump everyone into a group and criticize independent thought.

It's HR 487 for the 108th Congress.


But your not defending the Republicans being lumped into one group? Hypocritical today are we?

[Technetium]

It's sad that anyone is a Democrat or Republican.

[IDupedInMyPants]

But your not defending the Republicans being lumped into one group? Hypocritical today are we?

You guys were defending the republicans being lumped into one group while simultaneously lumping democrats into one group. I'd call it levelling the playing field, but we can call it hypocracy if you want since it's not a logical fallacy.

Edit: Just noticed this little gem.


actually the draft bill was put into congress by democrats.

Maybe that's why the democrats don't support the group that's going around saying Bush will reinstate the draft? Naahhh...

[maccool]

But your (sic) not defending the Republicans being lumped into one group? Hypocritical today are we?

Not especially since I said:


wedge issues continue to dominate this forum and the US. Hilarious that liberal is seen by some as a dirty word. Just all around hilarious.

What's not hilarious that the two political parties see us as idiots. Of course they're correct, we keep voting for them.

I'm not a big fan of Democrats either. I'm glad you're at a Jesuit institution. Now you will get an excellent education and learn to think critically.

[Rabid_Jawa]

Geez peeps take politics way too seriously. Bottom line they (Demwitts and Repubichairs) are mostly a bunch of goobers and will say/do anything they think they can get away with.

for instance:

Forged documents regarding Bush's military time.

Swift vets against Kerry not funded by Bush campaign (yeah right)

Cigs for votes during Gore campaign (think in Wiscon- wohoo free smokes)

Chinese monks donating to campaign fund (Bush or Gore- hell maybe even Clinton I forget)

Movies to check out that really aren't so far off the mark:

My Fellow Americans
Primary Colors
Bullworth



P.S. Nader is a Goob too for splitting the Dem vote. Maybe he's getting paid off by Bush..lol just a thought

[Steel_Avatar]

I don't see what's wrong with Nader running. He has as much right as anyone else to try and get his political voice heard.

[IDupedInMyPants]

I'm with Steel on that one. I think it's pretty ridiculous that we only ever have three candidates. Russia had ten running in their last election, and that's with Putin exercising near-complete control over the media. How does that make American politics look?

[rplusplus]

... How does that make American politics look?

Not nearly as bad as the rest of our history of voting.... And yet we still rule the world? Go Figure?! :scratch:

I think it had more to do with the Nukes and abundance of arrable (sp) land.

R++

[IDupedInMyPants]

Not nearly as bad as the rest of our history of voting.... And yet we still rule the world?

Ruling the world and upholding democracy are mutually exclusive, so no big shocker here.

[Rabid_Jawa]

I don't see what's wrong with Nader running. He has as much right as anyone else to try and get his political voice heard.

Nothing is wrong with it, I wish we had more candidates to choose from. I was thinking about throwing my vote Nader's (he's still a Goob) way as a protest of the 2 entrenched parties.

There was something I heard about some group trying to get Nader off the ballot. Personally I think that is a perverted form of censorship and extremely unconstitutional, not to mention just plain BS- he does have the right to run as Steel said.

[Steel_Avatar]

Come North :D

Whenever someone complains about a lack of candidates, I invite them to move North, where we have a glut of them.

[Rabid_Jawa]

Come North :D

Whenever someone complains about a lack of candidates, I invite them to move North, where we have a glut of them.

Damm yankee land scarres me. They tooked steel-tip darts away from ya'll fer a resun.

Ship that glut down Texas way, they still got the death penalty-

Seriously though there may a lot but how many actually make it to the national level in presidential competition? Not many and the ones that do (Perot in mind) are self funded (as opposed to an established party with tons of onhand cash & an army of volunteers to raise more cash)

[Steel_Avatar]

When I said North, I meant above the 49th, eh?

[rplusplus]

Too cold up thar... I need the promise of lots of belly warmers to go that far north.

R++

[Dacar92]

Once again, the Republican party is playing the "fear factor" on the electorate.


What about John Kerry claiming that there will be a draft?

Whay about Joyhn Kerry saying that old people will lose their social security/medicare if Bush is elected again?

What about John Kerry saying that republicans are trying to keep Blacks and other minorities from voting?

Is that fear factor stuff?

[rplusplus]

The only thing to fear is fear itself....

On November 3rd the world will go on no matter who wins.

Gas prices will go up

Home prices will go up

The mom and pop store on the corner will open it's doors

Kids will go to school

And I will go to work along with millions of others.

The difference will be who is in charge of the country and who will LEAD us into the next 4 years. A leader.... Not a whiner.

YOU get to choose who you think is the leader.

I made my choice.

And these debates are making it even more solidified in my belief of who is a leader and makes up his own mind and who doesn't.

R++

[tydon]

You guys were defending the republicans being lumped into one group while simultaneously lumping democrats into one group. I'd call it levelling the playing field, but we can call it hypocracy if you want since it's not a logical fallacy.

Edit: Just noticed this little gem.



Maybe that's why the democrats don't support the group that's going around saying Bush will reinstate the draft? Naahhh...

You guys lumped the republicans into "sewer slime", and you started the thread, so I dont see how you are leveling the playing ground....


Not especially since I said:



I'm not a big fan of Democrats either. I'm glad you're at a Jesuit institution. Now you will get an excellent education and learn to think critically.

Okay, I was wrong, I should have thought about who was posting before I said what I did, I know you dont support either, so I should have thought about who made the post before I responded. Sorry.

[IDupedInMyPants]

You guys lumped the republicans into "sewer slime", and you started the thread, so I dont see how you are leveling the playing ground....

If being the 8th post is starting a thread now, I guess I'm guilty as charged. I don't see anyone calling republicans sewer slime though.

[ScanMan]

And these debates are making it even more solidified in my belief of who is a leader and makes up his own mind and who doesn't.

R++

Maybe you should run that by a "global test", just to be sure.

Do you really think that you should take on the responsibility of making up your own mind ALL BY YOURSELF?

[jimmyboy]

Why don't you guys just do what moderates do: write down all your imporant issues, assign them points of importance, and watch the debate and vote for the candidate who scrores more.

[IDupedInMyPants]

Because nobody here is moderate, and if we voted on who scored the most, Bill Clinton would be president for life.

Or because the debate focused squarely on one single issue and nothing else.

[DurfBarian]

The Republican lie about banning the bible should be stopped at the same time the lie about the "impending draft" is stopped.

Fair's fair.
All right, I'll stop watching MTV if you stop parroting things that the RNC says. :thumbsup:

[IDupedInMyPants]

I'm actually starting to wonder about that, because I think I just saw the offending MTV spot. It suggests that a draft is possible and urges kids to inform themselves and vote without mentioning or hinting at any politician or political party.

Time to bunch my panties up!

[Steve_Kow]

I wouldn't worry too much about the MTV spot Smeg, 13-15 year old girls aren't allowed to vote last time I checked. ;)

Regarding Nader, he isn't splitting the "democratic" vote for the simple reason that the democratic party doesn't own anyone's vote. There are many people who feel that the democratic party has gotten too moderate and no longer represents their political views. They're entitled to vote for a candidate who does.

[Bakerking31]

Because nobody here is moderate, and if we voted on who scored the most, Bill Clinton would be president for life.

Or because the debate focused squarely on one single issue and nothing else.

i dont think that clinton would be president after people realize that the saudi's tried to give Osama to him, but he told them he didnt want him, even though he had evidence that Osama was behind the first attack on the World Trade Center.

[Rabid_Jawa]

Regarding Nader, he isn't splitting the "democratic" vote for the simple reason that the democratic party doesn't own anyone's vote. There are many people who feel that the democratic party has gotten too moderate and no longer represents their political views. They're entitled to vote for a candidate who does.

Yes and no. People are free to choose no matter what their party affiliation is or isn't. However, if Nader was not in the running, then the majority of his supporters would vote for the Democratic candidate as that's where they stood before they found, in their opinion, a better option in Nader.

[SaroDarksbane]

God is not a Democrat or a Republican.
So true, so true. My pastor reminds our congregation about that frequently these days. :)

[Suicidal Zebra]

God is not a Democrat or a Republican.

Bloody Fence-sitter :rant:

[xOSERx]

Since we're talking about ridiculous scare tactics...how about Cameron Diaz? Saying, "if you think that **** (nonconsentual sex) should be legal, then don't vote."

What I want to know is....who is the pro-**** candidate? Whose opponent will win if women don't vote? I don't even get it...

[FenrisWulf]

I dunno, xOSERx. People who think that nonconsensual sex should be legal would probably have a whole complement of other crappy political beliefs. Like Cameron Diaz, I don't think I'd want them voting, either. :p

[Bakerking31]

Since we're talking about ridiculous scare tactics...how about Cameron Diaz? Saying, "if you think that **** (nonconsentual sex) should be legal, then don't vote."

What I want to know is....who is the pro-**** candidate? Whose opponent will win if women don't vote? I don't even get it...

i never heard that one, probably because it came from cameron diez, all the celebs now a days think they know it all about politics, and most dont know anything.

[maccool]

i never heard that one, probably because it came from cameron diez, all the celebs now a days think they know it all about politics, and most dont know anything.

Much like the OTF, I'd say.

[Bakerking31]

Much like the OTF, I'd say.

actually most people here know more about what they are talking about than people at my school. I go to California State San Marcos, and some people there are just stupid and give no evidence to back up any claims they make.

I once asked a person there why he was going to vote for kerry (he had a kerry shirt on). i asked him nicely, and he just said becuase "bush is an alcholic (sp)".

in general people here (even if i dont agree with them) are more informed than out in the real world.

[IDupedInMyPants]

i dont think that clinton would be president after people realize that the saudi's tried to give Osama to him, but he told them he didnt want him, even though he had evidence that Osama was behind the first attack on the World Trade Center.

I was making a pun on the word score, but if that should keep Clinton from being president, Bush is in big trouble. Everyone's pretty quick to forget that the Taliban offered Osama to Bush at least twice if he would provide any evidence whatsoever that OBL was involved with 9/11.

[tydon]

If being the 8th post is starting a thread now, I guess I'm guilty as charged. I don't see anyone calling republicans sewer slime though.

llad12 said:

"Hang your head down GOP You reek of sewer slime"

In the first post.

Your not really doing it, I was grouping all the democrats into saying they were doing the same thing just for the effect of showing that is exactly what some of the democrats in this threat were doing and not realizing it.

[llad12]

What about John Kerry claiming that there will be a draft?
What planet did you just arrive from?


Vice presidential candidate John Edwards promised a West Virginia mother on Wednesday that if the Democratic ticket is elected in November the military draft would not be revived.
During a question-and-answer session, the mother of a 23-year-old who recently graduated from West Virginia University asked Edwards whether the draft would be reinstated.

"There will be no draft when John Kerry is president," Edwards said, a statement that drew a standing ovation
USA Today (http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/nation/president/2004-09-15-edwards_x.htm)


Whay about Joyhn Kerry saying that old people will lose their social security/medicare if Bush is elected again?
This is Kerry's position:


"As president, I will not privatize Social Security. I will not cut benefits. I will not raise the retirement age on America’s senior citizens. And together, we will make sure that senior citizens never have to cut their pills in half because they can’t afford lifesaving medicine and more and more of a senior's Social Security check is eaten up by Medicare premiums. That is the choice in this election, between keeping the promise of Social Security or choosing George Bush’s secret plan to privatize Social Security, gambling on his four-year record of wasting surpluses that could be used to strengthen Social Security and instead giving more tax cuts to the wealthiest Americans.”
Cato Institute (http://www.socialsecurity.org/)

Being an old fart, and having donated to Social Security for nearly 30 years, I'll be damned if I want to privatize SS for all you young whippersnappers! Pay up fellas, I going to need my geritol soon. :lol:



What about John Kerry saying that republicans are trying to keep Blacks and other minorities from voting?

Is that fear factor stuff?
I didn't think that was even up for debate ... during the Florida 2000 election.


---------------

Although he had to back off his statement later, read what our VP initially said about the election:


Cheney told supporters in Iowa that there's a danger the United States will be attacked again "if we make the wrong choice" on Election Day
OmiGod it's CBS! (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/09/10/politics/main642509.shtml)

-------------

Therefore, summing it up, what have we heard directily from the GOP Committee and presidential ticket so far?

To paraphrase:

Cheney: Vote Republican or you will die!

RNC: Vote for us … or those Godless, Pinko-Liberal Democrats will let our nation burn in Hell!

-----------



But never mind what I say ... run to to the polls and fearfully cast your vote for Dubya. After all, everyone knows that God is on his side. :uhhuh:

[llad12]

llad12 said:

"Hang your head down GOP You reek of sewer slime"

In the first post.
That is correct, and let it be known that I proudly stand by that statement (relative to this thread topic) :bow:

[IDupedInMyPants]

Correct or not, it's not calling them sewer slime. I know plenty of people who smell like sewer slime and, in fact, are not sewer slime.

[llad12]

Correct or not, it's not calling them sewer slime. I know plenty of people who smell like sewer slime and, in fact, are not sewer slime.
I do not disagree with that statement :cheesy:

[Freemason]

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2002051443_webbush01.html

Is this a Democrat version of Watergate???

Dirty tricks aboud. I'm waiting to see what kind of BS we can expect for an "October Suprise"

[LunarSolaris]

*continues to fart in the direction of politics... this time, directly aiming*

[Freemason]

~throws a match at Lunar~
~sits back and pops a beer as Lunar's flaming butt propels him skyward~

[IDupedInMyPants]

The October surprise will be that the traditional Orthodox period of mourning (for Beslan) will end mid-month and Putin will crank it up a notch in Chechnya with his newly reconsolidated power. Bush will be pressed to pick a side, and neither side's a very good one to pick. He either sticks it out with his Chechen allies and officially becomes a state sponsor of terrorism, or he sticks it out with his Russian allies and validates Putin's moves towards authoritarianism. I guess he could go the historical route and do both, but there's too much oil at stake to do neither.

[ScanMan]

The October surprise will be that the traditional Orthodox period of mourning (for Beslan) will end mid-month and Putin will crank it up a notch in Chechnya with his newly reconsolidated power. Bush will be pressed to pick a side, and neither side's a very good one to pick. He either sticks it out with his Chechen allies and officially becomes a state sponsor of terrorism, or he sticks it out with his Russian allies and validates Putin's moves towards authoritarianism. I guess he could go the historical route and do both, but there's too much oil at stake to do neither.

Chechen allies?

[IDupedInMyPants]

Search for my thread on the subject. We've been meeting with them and giving refuge to their leaders. Putin's fairly irate about it, which understandably isn't in our news at the moment.

[AeroJonesy]

People who want to win do bad things. Republicans do it, democrats do it, it's despicable. There, end of story. Why can't people ever just admit to a screw up? There always has to be some long explanation, no one ever owns up to anything anymore.

Republicans just should stand up and say, "yes, it was a dumb thing to do and I am ashamed."

[DrunkPotHead]

IRepublicans just should stand up and say, "yes, it was a dumb thing to do and I am ashamed."

I'm gonna stop smoking pot and drinking booze before that happens. [/sarcasm]

[Amra]

What planet did you just arrive from?


To be fair, the Kerry camp has been painting Bush with the "bringing back the draft" brush.

Good for Bush for standing up to him on it.

Talk about using the fear concept..... Kerry is taking it to a new level.

[maccool]

To be fair, the Kerry camp has been painting Bush with the "bringing back the draft" brush.

Umm, no. That would be Rengell and Hollings whose only connection to the Kerry campaign is that they're Democrats. Honestly, it's bad enough that we have people that don't think here; I thought you weren't one of them.

Oh, you've been at those RNC sites, haven't you? Dang, the GOP is a good party, the people who run it, however leave a lot to be desired.



craziness (http://www.indystar.com/articles/6/182859-2796-021.html)


Kerry has said we need at least 40,000 more troops, but specifically says he would not use the draft to raise them. Everyone, top to bottom, in the Bush administration denies there is any such plan.

Hey look, a non-issue! Let's focus on this and not the environment!

[DurfBarian]

What, you mean we're already done talking about IBM typewriters from 1972? We need to clear away one key issue before we move on to the next earth-shatteringly important one.

Coming up next: Democratic plot to make Bush look unpresidential by refusing to allow him to stand on a box behind his podium! Republican schemers plant extra rat feces in Heinz ketchup plant, point to Dem endangerment of nation's food supply! OMG it's midgettomatogate!!!!!

Election campaign season is definitely a barrel of laughs. Everyone promising noble deeds and policies and stuff for a couple months before both sides get back to the "who can stuff more appropriations bills in his pants first" contest. Zell Miller lined up some extra points already, I see.

[jimmyboy]

What, you mean we're already done talking about IBM typewriters from 1972? We need to clear away one key issue before we move on to the next earth-shatteringly important one.

Coming up next: Democratic plot to make Bush look unpresidential by refusing to allow him to stand on a box behind his podium! Republican schemers plant extra rat feces in Heinz ketchup plant, point to Dem endangerment of nation's food supply! OMG it's midgettomatogate!!!!!

Election campaign season is definitely a barrel of laughs. Everyone promising noble deeds and policies and stuff for a couple months before both sides get back to the "who can stuff more appropriations bills in his pants first" contest. Zell Miller lined up some extra points already, I see.


I thought I was the only one to notice that Bush was on his toes and clinging to the podium for life.

[llad12]

The political season and the lies continue unabated ...

This clip (http://mediamatters.org/static/audio/savage-20040929.mp3), from nationally syndicated radio host Michael Savage, is incredible. I cannot believe some of the fabrications and exaggerations that are perpetrated upon our electorate.

Who listens to this stuff anyway?

[Suicidal Zebra]

The political season and the lies continue unabated ...

This clip (http://mediamatters.org/static/audio/savage-20040929.mp3), from nationally syndicated radio host Michael Savage, is incredible. I cannot believe some of the fabrications and exaggerations that are perpetrated upon our electorate.

Who listens to this stuff anyway?

:lol:

That guy should be doing stand-up. But then, wakko's are ten a penny on radio, so what I have to ask is...

1) Is this guy popular (other than as a source for comedy of course)

2) Do people listen to him and agree with his stances.