Please Help Me up my zon's DMG

[Krushedice]

I read and will likely need to reread AK404's zon guide and put most of it to practice. I have however heard people on this forum talking about their zons that do 4K damage, which is twice what I have been able to do here. The lack of more damage is making hell tough (well, I guess it's supposed to be tough anyway), and I need a bit of extra help. I'll post the detailed stats on my zon tonight, but wanted some initial thoughts.

My zon uses the following gear:
MAV's ENTIRE SET
Gore Rider boots
Raven Frost*
Manald Heal* (both switch out with angelics the few times I've dueled)
+29 RES ammy or angelic ammy

At lvl 80 I have max strafe/max multi shot
Critical Strike is not maxed, but just past the point of diminishing returns with my set bonuses (like 60 something %)
The others (pierce, penetrate) don't matter as they don't increase damage

I like mav's for the MF and other set bonuses, and I'm not rich but can probably buy some half way decent gear if need be.

[Shanksie1337]

you read some1's guide then maxed both strafe and MS:scratch:
and is this pvp or pvm?

[Wmeredith]

The main problem I see is that you are using Mav's bow. IMHO it sux. It might be my least favorite item in the game because I consider it to be the one item ruining what would probably be my favorite set. :rant:

But thats just me.

I've built a bunch of bowazons, they're my favorite, and all I can tell you is to pump DEX and get a better bow. War Travs help immensely too.

Personally when I am building a zon I only go for Damage and IAS when it comes to my gear and stats. I usually end up with a totally sweet "Glass Cannon." This whole idea of fast, deadly and fragile appeals to me. You shouldn't be taking any hits really if you know how to use your Valk and Decoy. To get a high damage zon she is going to die pretty easily, which is why Decoy, Valk and her whole passive skill tree rock. you can also make up for a lot of damage short-comings with speed and penetrate. Don't count penetrate out...

BTW, I have an almost perf (197% :grrr: ) Lycander's Aim thats been upped and Shael-ed if your interested. I know this isn't a trade forum, but thought I'd let you know. A WWS is great if upped and socketed well, it's my favorite. Or, of course, you can try for a WF, kind of pricy for my taste though.

Good luck... :thumbsup:

*the_salmon

[Shanksie1337]

The funny thing is ppl always say wf is costly, yet on most realms you can buy a WF for the upgrade runes needed for a WWS Diamond bow.

Nice tar btw det/liessa will be your friend :D

Also there is a LOT wrong with the first guys gear/zon, but i am waiting for more details before giving a fuller answer.

[miyulight]

whats WWS? lol, i keep looking at it as very very strong ( i used to play ragnarok online lol) :cheesy:

[Shanksie1337]

Witchwild string unique bow, doesn't look a whole lot, but once you up it and play with it, it turns out to be a damn nice bow.

[AeroSquid]

Witchwild string unique bow, doesn't look a whole lot, but once you up it and play with it, it turns out to be a damn nice bow.


Humor a newb that hasn't played in a while. How exactly do i 'up' a WWS? (I found one last night lol) I got back into D2 about 2 months ago and didn't bother to read up on any of the new changes 1.10 threw at us. So of course i built a MFbowazon the old way (max guided and multi) with skullders/shako/war travlers/chance guards and of course, a 199ED Buriza. I'm only at lvl69 so i still have some points to pour into strafe if i really wanted to but i just got to Hell and i'm having a hard time with PIs.

I'm thinking i should just start over.

[XZON]

Humor a newb that hasn't played in a while. How exactly do i 'up' a WWS? (I found one last night lol) I got back into D2 about 2 months ago and didn't bother to read up on any of the new changes 1.10 threw at us. So of course i built a MFbowazon the old way (max guided and multi) with skullders/shako/war travlers/chance guards and of course, a 199ED Buriza. I'm only at lvl69 so i still have some points to pour into strafe if i really wanted to but i just got to Hell and i'm having a hard time with PIs.

I'm thinking i should just start over.

Don't start strafe now. Up your buriza & put a reapers toll on your merc. Physical damage on a high buriza which is upped is actually higher than a WF. It just shoots a lot slower. With multi you should be able to do pit runs with it. Throw a 15% ias jewel in it for the next breakpoint, get some leech and put on laying of hands instead of the chance guards. It's not over yet.

by the way, you "up" any exception weapon to elite by putting it in the horadric cube with a pul, lum & perfect emerald. Beware that the requirements are boosted to whatever the normal elites are except the level which goes up even more. For buriza your strength req is now 163, same as hellrack.

[Krushedice]

After reviewing my zon to post the detailed stats, I already realized some things that I let go astray. I know that by asking for your help I'm gonna get the beating associated with mucking up the build (especially after reading a build guide :) ), but hope that you veterans out there can give me some stuff NOT to do on my next zon.

BASE STATS:
116 str
250 dex
105 vit
base en
magic arrow 1
cold arrow 1
guided arrow 1
MULTI SHOT 12
STRAFE 17
inner sight 1
slow 1
decoy 3
valk 1
d/a/e - 6 each
pierce 2
penetrate 17
crit strike 14

I can see on the damage that I went wrong by not raising my BASE Strafe the three points. my AR dressed without angelic is like 8K, so I could imagine that penetrate needs to go any higher since I don't have problems hitting stuff. the points that I put into ms came from what others would have put in valk, whom I didn't think I'd depend on much , but the question here is about damage. Othe than raising my strafe to 20 and continuing to pump dex (314 dressed) where could I have gone so farr off?

I guess I've been thinking that I'm maxed because I keep forgetting the +6 skills from the bonuses on the set.

[MN12Thunder]

I have never read about a M'avinazon dealing 4000 max damage. I mean, sure, it could be done with an inventory full of 3/20/20 small charms, but let's be realistic. The only skill that has any chance of getting a M'avinazon anywhere near 3000 max damage is a level 30 Guided Arrow. I completely agree with Wmeredith on M'avina's Caster. If the bow had 300% ED or even just 250% ED, it would be so much better. It still wouldn't compare with Windforce, but it would be better.

As it is, I have two Casters, one with a Nef rune and one with an empty socket. I've been tempted to put a 40/15 IAS jewel in the empty socketed one, but I don't have much faith in that jewel making the bow any better, and besides, I've found the knockback fairly useful at times. With 436 dexterity, my level 10 Guided Arrow with the aid of a level 20 Might mercenary deals 2806 max damage.

Regarding your build, I think your base vitality is too high for most bowazon players. It's about fine for me, but then again, I like having 900 life even though I don't need it because I got more help from charms than I did from points in vitality. I wouldn't call my bowazon a tank by any stretch of the imagination, but it's kind of fun to stare down monsters at melee range and know that a couple of cheap hits aren't going to kill you.

I don't know at what point you decided to use M'avina's set, but I strongly believe that anyone who chooses to use the full set for the long haul should not invest more than three points in Multishot. I never understood the purpose of a 10+ arrow Multishot. It's a waste of mana and usually a waste of untargeted arrows as well.

I'm not really sure why you put the extra two points in Decoy instead of Valkyrie or any other skill that could have been more deserving of attention.

Get a Might mercenary if you haven't already.

Although it may not help your damage in the stat window, find some way to get Amplify Damage or Decrepify on you or your mercenary. I gave my mercenary the Reaper's Toll and it's been a great aid in my killing speed.

There are probably a handful of other things that you could do as well, but I'm tired right now.

[Shanksie1337]

Others have already said this, but those zon's who get 4k damage don't use the Mav's Caster, and the full mav's set is inferior to a unique/set/rare build for strafe/ms. The set is geared to a FA build imo.

As for gear, you really need a better amulet for general play. You don't say what is socketed in your gear, but iirc mav's need 20 IAS to reach the next strafe BP, so getting that will increase your killing speed, if not your raw damage. Highlords or Cat's Eye would be my prefered choice.

Getting AR is easy if your switch slot is free, use a Demon Limb and enchant yourself.

In general tho, things not to do if wanting to make a max damage strafe/ms zon is:
Don't use mav's set :)

not very helpful i know, but true none the less.

@mm12 - putting a 40/15 in a WF isn't very noticable. so i really wouldn't put one in a mav's caster, but that may just be me.

[Krushedice]

Good feedback on the Nef rune for knockback-- I hadn't until you mentioned it even given it a thought, and was debating on either a shael for ias. I'll have to fork out this crummy ed jewel I found (until recently I was too poor for 30+ ed facets)

My thought about ms /strafe was based on the fact that I had thoughts of using this zon as a mf zon in hell where I could get the resistances without loading up on small charms. I find 10+ multishot to be good in cows and pits. The mf gear is not a problem for the zon, since I can use skullders (upped maybe) and my steelcaque(shako too exp for now) to make up for lack of the set bonus, but those res aren't as easy to come by.

I do use a demon limb on switch from time to time and will have to go back to that.

I have a lycander's (not upped), but wouldn't mind going for a WF and have an ormus to trade for that and a shako and a highlords if anyone is interested. I'll post the trade forums my F/T list later if anyone has any stuff to help me deal with the resistance problem I'll have without mavs.

[Shanksie1337]

Yu don't really need res's on a bowazon, unless you play HC.

[twelvebagger]

I have a number of comments, mostly reiteration from other people:


1) I don’t believe you can upgrade buriza or wws unless you are on ladder. Just a point of clarity
2) Peirce DOES boost your DPS, it just doesn’t boost your base damage. For this reason I also advocate maxing multishot, for purposes other than aesthetics.
3) Max multi-shot, here’s my thought:

You can look at damage per hit all you want, but the overlooked factor is damage over time. DPS = damage per attack * number of targets hit.

Multishot and Peirce will both increase the number of targets hit DEPENDING ON WHERE you are hunting. For traveling to the pits you’ll be killing things that are not even on the screen yet, and I think it’s a nice bonus. From a DPS standpoint I’d be willing to claim that a bowazon is by no means underpowered. Take that 1000 damage arrow and consider that you might hit 16 targets with it, and you’re in decent shape.

Multishot, to my knowledge, is one of the few area attacks that can hit things extremely far away, AND this is like a “bonus” attack because you’re doing damage to things that are beyond your view. This damage is just a CONSEQUENCE of your attacking the group immediately in front of you.


For the pits, and especially for cows, multishot is nice from a DPS perspective. (And it’s aesthetically pleasing to boot!)

Currently, the only attack I can think of that can hit things INDIRECTLY and far away, is thunderstorm, and that is a single target attack/aura so it doesn’t compare in the DPS world.


4) Personally, I wouldn’t have taken penetrate as far as you did, that’s just me.
5) Take about 25 off of vitality and add it to dex for more damage. Glass Cannon’s rock.
6) Get a better bow.
7) Get a Might merc.

[MN12Thunder]

@mm12 - putting a 40/15 in a WF isn't very noticable. so i really wouldn't put one in a mav's caster, but that may just be me.

Agreed on that point now, although I thought differently when I originally decided to socket the second bow. Fortunately socket quests are not hard to get. I may just keep the jewel for display now (it was given to me in a giveaway, thus I decided to either use it or look at it instead of trading it) because I really don't have anything in which I truly want to insert it.

Unless if I stumble upon a mass of 40/15s which isn't likely to happen, I will probably still put a 15% IAS jewel with a lesser second mod in the second bow and then put another 15% IAS jewel in the diadem so I can get 9/2 Strafe. My amulet is Highlord's Wrath.

I'll have to concede to twelvebagger's point about Multishot simply because I have never used it as a primary skill on any bowazon that I have ever made, so thus I'm not familiar with some nuances of the skill. Then again, it would be a horrible mistake if I maxed Multishot on a M'avinazon considering the set's strengths.

ShytStorm, if you are really that concerned about resists, try to get Tal Rasha's Guardianship and use that instead of Skullder's Ire. It's not a big deal for a bowazon either way though.