LF/?zon, need help

[N'thraXX]

So, now that I got my Meteorb to Matriarch status I started an Amazon. I'm planning to do a LF/Somethingzon. So I need your help to find out what that something is.

I'm guessing that most people use either Freezing Arrow or Strafe, since higher Fire skills seem to be quite weak. Could Cold Arrow or Fire Arrow be enough to deal with LI's with their ~40% damage convert?

If I decided to go with Strafe, how would I deal with PI/LI's? And if decided to take FA, would I have to use normal bow/jav attack to deal with CI/LI's?
At this point I can see why WWS is so popular (other than it's insane Strafe firing speed), since there's hardly any or none MI/LI's. Upgraded WWS with two Shaels makes Strafe sound tempting...

As for the weapons, I have a Titan's in my stash aswell as a Thunderstroke. Is the 151 dex req in the Thunderstroke too much or does Titan's replenish quantity, increased stack size, life steal and stat bonuses beat Thunderstroke's IAS, lightning dmg and -% to enemy's lightning res?

As for the bow... I have no idea what affixes the bow should have when using the skills that I choose. Currently my choices are: WWS, Goldstrike, Eaglehorn, Buriza and Lycander (no WF yet :uhhuh: ).

I would also need some guidance regarding the end-equipment. So that I know how many skills I need to put into my Valk, to make it slvl 17 after +skills.

Please post your suggestions, tips and anything that comes to mind!
Thank you!


Hope I didn't forget anything...

[Arewyn]

I suggest going 20LF/20 Strafe/17 Valk w/ +skills/and I would sink rest of the points into either Penetrate or 50% for each of the evade skills, or maybe pierce if your not going to use a Razortail.

For the bow I would chose WWS since you wont need to put points into the passive Critical Strike Move. I believe it also has a 2% chance to cast Amp Damage which should handle any Physical Immunes you come across.

As for the Javs I would go with Titans since the stats, leech, skills imo are better than T-strokes, but its all based upon what you want to do. You could probably try both of them out since with Strafe your going to need to get a High Dex rating to get some good damage with the Up'ed WWS.

I hope that answers most of your questions, hoping I didnt miss out on anything...

[SoL-Rich]

I suggest Kuko with max Immolition (SP) Arrow. I just finished Hell ancients and have been knocking out the gloams in the WK pretty easily with the KUKO. They are L.Immune. Also max Valk.

SoL-Rich

[ricrestoni]

Finished the game with strafe + mana leech + knockback - all you need to refill your blue bulb without being smashed to a pulp. Also it is cool to destroy the enemy without even seeing him. But maybe enough in strafe to get the 10 arrows and power strike is a better way to go, since single PI are teh biggest suxxorz.

[N'thraXX]

Thanks for 'teh' tips.

I still need some clue on what would be the top-end-equipment on a LF/Strafezon, but leave the expensive runewords out. :teeth:
This is what was thinking.

Titan's Revenge/uWWS with 2xShaels
Shaftstop (15IAS ***)
Stormshield
Vampire Gaze (15IAS ***)
Crescent Moon
Laying of Hands/Crafted Gloves
Thundergod's Vigor/Razortail
Gorerider
Manald Heal+Raven Frost
+res/skill charms

20 Strafe
20 Strafe
20 Power Strike
15 Valkyrie (17 after Titan's +2)
6 Pierce
3 Avoid
14 prereqs
Finished @87

Anything to change? Too much Power Strike perhaps?

[Zavior]

Begs for critical strike.

[Zarhrezz]

Titan's Revenge/uWWS with 2xShaels
Shaftstop (15IAS ***)
Stormshield
Vampire Gaze (15IAS ***)
Crescent Moon
Laying of Hands/Crafted Gloves
Thundergod's Vigor/Razortail
Gorerider
Manald Heal+Raven Frost
+res/skill charms

20 Strafe
20 Strafe
20 Power Strike
15 Valkyrie (17 after Titan's +2)
6 Pierce
3 Avoid
14 prereqs
Finished @87

Anything to change? Too much Power Strike perhaps?

Yup, about 19 points.
Power Strike is worthless, put the points in Charged Strike instead, that's your Boss-killer (any 'big' monster dies to it instantly really...Megademons, Corpulentes, Yetis, Minions of Destruction...that kinda stuff).
If you have the points, a bit in CS never hurts (though I keep it at 1 for my lightning maiden...the physical damage is just secondary for me), but consider that you'll probably need points in Penetrate to keep a reasonable hit-rate with Strafe.

[Zavior]

Strafe begs for critical strike.

[Arith-Matic]

Yup, about 19 points.
Power Strike is worthless, put the points in Charged Strike instead, that's your Boss-killer (any 'big' monster dies to it instantly really...Megademons, Corpulentes, Yetis, Minions of Destruction...that kinda stuff).
If you have the points, a bit in CS never hurts (though I keep it at 1 for my lightning maiden...the physical damage is just secondary for me), but consider that you'll probably need points in Penetrate to keep a reasonable hit-rate with Strafe.

While we're on the subject of charged strike...it kills "big" monsters instantly because each lightning bolt does lotsa damage or because of the javelin itself? Also, how would one deal with single PI/LI's ? FA pretty much sucks up mana and it isn't doing any kind of super high damage to take out a PI/LI stone skin boss for example...is there another way around it?

Thanks for the help.

[N'thraXX]

While we're on the subject of charged strike...it kills "big" monsters instantly because each lightning bolt does lotsa damage or because of the javelin itself? Also, how would one deal with single PI/LI's ? FA pretty much sucks up mana and it isn't doing any kind of super high damage to take out a PI/LI stone skin boss for example...is there another way around it?

Thanks for the help.

How about the lvl 20 magic arrow in WWS?


Strafe begs for critical strike.

I thought that WWS's Deadly Strike based on level could take care of that.

[Zarhrezz]

While we're on the subject of charged strike...it kills "big" monsters instantly because each lightning bolt does lotsa damage or because of the javelin itself? Also, how would one deal with single PI/LI's ? FA pretty much sucks up mana and it isn't doing any kind of super high damage to take out a PI/LI stone skin boss for example...is there another way around it?

Thanks for the help.

Well, an ethereal upgraded Titan's does pretty nice damage (367-768 listed atm, 567.5 average), but 8 lightning bolts doing 1-1619 each adds up to 8-12952 (6480 average). This is at level 53...you get the idea.

PI/LI will indeed be a problem, but between a merc with Reaper's and me with a Kelpie to add 75% slow, I'd say the thing will be stationary...I'll probably add Open Wounds somewhere so even if it's slow, the monster will go down eventually.

For hybrids, I'd say Magic Arrow (WWS is a good option) to deal with LI/PI...almost nothing resists magic damage. Another option is a point in Cold Arrow and a point in Fire Arrow, giving 2 options for alternative damage and just use the biggest damage bow you can find.

[N'thraXX]

>Reviving thread....

Back to the subject, my LF/Strafezon is lvl 32 atm. I'm still uncertain about the skills and items that I should aim for.

20 LF
20 CS
20 Strafe
15 Valkyrie (+2 from Titans = 17)
7 Pierce (+2 skills + Razortail = 102%)
17 prereqs
= 99 skill points (finished @88, if skill quests completed)

End-game equipment:
Titan's Revenge / uWWS (/w Shaels)
Stormshield (-15req rare jewel)
?Armor? (15ias jewel)
Vampire Gaze (15ias jewel)
Laying of Hands
Razortail
Gorerider
2x Dual Leech rare rings

Any changes you would make?
Still haven't decided what amulet I should use, if I go for an amulet with 20IAS I can drop one of the IAS jewels out. Also the Armor is a question mark, if I go for a runeword then I would have to take a 20IAS amulet.

As Zavior has said many times, Strafe begs for Critical Strike, but doesn't WWS's Deadly Strike handle that?

Also if I socket the Stormshield with a -15req jewel will it have a strength req of 132 (rounded down) or 133 (rounded up).

Also the stats:
Str: 133 (or 132)
Dex: 199 (max block with SS)
Vit: 183 (rest)
Nrg: 15 (nothing)

Life should be around 773 and mana around 180 mana. Comments, suggestions anything, please I need it all.

[Gorish]

DS and CS do not stack insomuch as you cannot get 4x the damage from one single shot. Therefore it is pointless to have a high DS and also a high CS, especially if the CS will use up precious skill points. If your DS is over about 75% (which it will be), then I would avoid CS altogether. It is simply not worth the skill points.

Gear looks good, for armour maybe Gloom? It provides resistances, defence and a ctc Dim Vision, perfect for a LF Zon. Either that or maybe Ormus' Robes for the +% to Lightning Skill Damage. I'm not really sure what would be best here.

[Summoned]

Stormshield will be at 133 strength requirement.

My amazon:

Stats:
Strength: 110
Dexterity: Everything else
Vitality: 150
Energy: Bleh

Equipment:
Titan's Revenge
Stormshield (-15% requirement/14% poison resist)
Lionheart
Kira's Guardian (70% with 15% ias jewel)
Highlord's Wrath (never found Atma's Scarab)
Laying of Hands/Lava Gout (if you need more attack rating)/Crafted 20%ias + knockback gloves
Gore Rider
Thundergod's Vigor (Safer, but reduces fire power)
Havoc Horn Rare Great Bow (183% ed, 20%ias, and fool's mod: dmg/atk per level) with a Nef rune, or shael if I find Atma's

Skills:
20 Lightning Fury
15 CS
10 Pierce
10 Strafe
15 Valkyrie
Everything Else: Penetrate

I reach the 8/2 strafe, but since most of the attack is actually taken up by the additional arrows, I don't see how 9/2 is any worse.

With WWS, the amp damage should trigger frequently due to the rapid-fire and pierce. That coupled with the deadly strike will almost always quadruple your normal damage, and occasionally take it to an even higher level for those with physical resistance. Also, with strafe, you probably would want some knockback. Critters being knocked back will often eat more arrows if they're the only thing on the screen than if they're rushing at you.

Another thing, I believe that additional points in strafe (past the 10 arrow mark) are worth about as much at 5 dexterity (edit: less, since dexterity also increases attack rating), while you'll NEED penetrate to hit. Trust me on this one, my inventory was filled with fine/sharp charms, with lava gout's level 10 enchant, I still had only about 8000 AR.

[N'thraXX]

Another thing, I believe that additional points in strafe (past the 10 arrow mark) are worth about as much at 5 dexterity (edit: less, since dexterity also increases attack rating), while you'll NEED penetrate to hit. Trust me on this one, my inventory was filled with fine/sharp charms, with lava gout's level 10 enchant, I still had only about 8000 AR.

Would I still need Penetrate if I decided to go with a Blessed Aim Merc? So you suggest that I leave Strafe at 6 (though I'm already at 9) and put the rest in Penetrate. What would be a good amount of AR?

Also I noticed that Strafes damage is somehow crooked. First it's 3/4 of the weapon damage, so after it has >33%ED it should do as much damage as a normal attack, right? Well it doesn't, but why?

[Summoned]

There's some complicated calculations in there:

Normal attack = (weapon damage) + (.01)(dexterity)(weapon damage) + (might bonus)(weapon damage)

Weapon damage includes the damage shown on the bow plus any charms/items with +damage.

Strafe = .75[(weapon damage) + (.01)(dexterity)(weapon damage) + (strafe bonus)(weapon damage) + (might bonus)(weapon damage)]

I'd go with a might mercenary, though, because otherwise you won't be able to kill very effectively. Try to get the shown damage up to around 1000 max.

[N'thraXX]

I'd go with a might mercenary, though, because otherwise you won't be able to kill very effectively. Try to get the shown damage up to around 1000 max.

I hope you mean the max damage of the normal attack, because there's no way I can get my strafe's max damage to 1000 with uWWS. I would need something like ~70 more max damage from charms to get to 1000.

Strafe Damage = 0.75*(105*(1+2.62+0.45+2.9)) = 548 max damage

So even with a lvl 90 Might merc, 262 dex and level 9 Strafe my max damage would be just 548. Of course then my base attack rating would be:

Base AR = (Dex * 5) - 35 + ClassBonus
Base AR = (262 * 5) - 35 + 5 = 1280

We add lvl 12 Penetrate and we get 1280 * 2.45 = 3136 AR
With an AR of 3136 my chance to hit would be around 63% to 75% in ActV. Against the Minions of Destruction it would be 55%.

I did a little comparison with a Blessed Aim and a Might Merc. I came to the conclusion (applies to my attack rating, not sure about lower or higher) that if you're battling monsters with high defence and level you're better off with a Blessed Aim merc, applies to Lister and Act Bosses. Otherwise, Might Merc.

Just remembered, does WWS's 'Fires Magic Arrows [lvl20]' work with Strafe? If so then my AR would be 5452. Though have the bad feeling that it doesn't...

[Summoned]

Hmmm, I did have about 5 grand charms totally around 35-40 max damage, and then 4 large charms totalling 21 damage, and 3 small charms with +8 total. That, plus my bow had around 210 damage. So I guess I'm asking for too much. :teeth:

Edit: As for attack rating, the fine/sharp charms gave her a big boost to the base AR, plus the bow's "fool's" mod added over 1000 to AR. If you're really lacking that much in attack rating, then by all means, go BA.

Side note: yeah, it's just normal attacks that get the magic arrow.

[N'thraXX]

Aargh! I remembered that I had these gloves stored in a stash:

Bitter Grip
War Gauntlets
Defense: 81
Durability: 18 of 24
Required Strength: 110
Required Level: 35
Item Version: 1.10 Expansion
Item Level: 86
Fingerprint: 0xc45c061c
+1 to Strength
+51% Enhanced Defense
Cold Resist +15%
20% Increased Attack Speed
+2 to Passive and Magic Skills (Amazon Only)

And now I can't decide should I go with these or stick with LoH. These would save me some points though. What is the best +skills in Crafted Blood Gloves for this kind of build? Bow/Xbow, Javelin/Spear or Passive & Magic?

I also have a pair of Crafted Gloves with 20ias and +1 jav skills on it. Need help making the choice!


Edit: Forgot to ask: How much leech do I need in Hell? Enough to maintain a continious Strafe would be cool, but how much do you have? Is it enough for you?

[DX-Crawler]

Well I use a pure Lightning Zon, and I have 12% ML I thinks and that's well enough for a continual cast of LF. Nice to have some extra ML so you fast can leach back what you lost when fighting skeletons and other monsters you can't leach from.

DX