So is WindowMarker any good for Vemon/PVP

[Coffin]

Has anyone here had experiance with this bow in pvp, specifically with vemon? It seems like a really good way to hit with vemon before the duel ever really starts. Does ignore def work in pvp? If so... then this might be worth a try on my ww sin.

[Coffin]

Can anyone give me an anwser? :)

[chi987]

you'd need a lot of IAS for this to work nicely, your WW sin might need to rework her items a little

FYI ignore target defence doesnt work in pvp but guided arrow always hits :thumbsup:

[Br_]

Shael it, have a decent IAS through BoS, and have additional IAS on items and it probably would work. I believe it takes quite a bit of IAS to get close to the final bp. I will check it out. and get back.

Br_

EDIT: Ok I was wrong, for a Sin to reach the max bp on Widowmaker she will need an additional 10% IAS with 20 points in BoS (9/Frames per attack, 2.7 attacks per second)

Although if you dont have any points in BoS then you will need 125% IAS to reach the final BP

[LovelyGods]

ok so im interested in this setup..

what skills?

20 Venom
20 Burst of Speed

what else?

[GenXCub]

You should probably find the setup for 10 frames, not 9 since Venom takes 10 frames to do full damage. That will save you a lot of points in BoS.

[Coffin]

already got lvl 20 bos and 20% ias from highlords.

btw i got one last night.

works wonders really, good for all around situations. still needs futher testing becuase my ww sin can kill just as fast with out it... so it's really only something to add flexibilty and fun to dueling.

[Br_]

You should probably find the setup for 10 frames, not 9 since Venom takes 10 frames to do full damage. That will save you a lot of points in BoS.

11 points in BoS will get you to 10 frames by itself. So actually ignore what I posted earlier about maxing BoS, 11 points plus 18%(Shael that puppy) IAS will meet the final BP.

Otherwise, without BoS you will need 75% IAS for 10 Frames

Br_

[Coffin]

well im just saying with my +items i already have 20 bos, so it's not a problem. :)

[UsDVS]

sounds like a fun pvp build but it would have way 2 low of damage to work, unless u rely heaaaaaaaavily on venom, which would be the same thing as a *** multi 40x290 psc zon

[BabehJesus]

It's kind of a concept that would work really well, in theory, but doesn't really.

Enchantresses can become bowasorcs for one reason: teleport. They don't have to worry about wearing Enigma, and teleport is crucial for this character, because if they don't have it, they're a sitting duck. You'd need a lot of FR/W to make up for it.

A bowasin would have the problem of resists because none of their gear would give it to them. The only resists they would have would be the ones they get from their Anni, their ammy, and their charms. The rest of the slots would be taken up.

If I were going to try a bowasin, here's what I would use...

-80/30'd Giant Skull
-160/60
-Storm Hide
-Shael'd Widowmaker
-IAS Gloves
-SOJs
-IAS Belt
-Gore Riders

140% IAS, not including what you get from BOS. Don't even worry about the resists, because they're crap. If you really need resists, you could use fade, but then you wouldn't have BOS, which would lead to bad IAS, which would lead to losing, which leads to the reason the bowasin doesn't really work.

If someone can make it work, I'd definitely be interested.

[sk8brdnick]

My experiences with widowmaker in pvp were less than wonderful. The dmg is simply too low even with OW and venom (OW is nerfed for missile attacks). Inexperienced duelers can be felled, but you are very vulnerable without WB. My most recent kicker uses very large amounts of FCR and maxed MB with much greater effect. MB stuns and damages leaving you less vulnerable.

[essojay]

My pvp build is as follows:

20 venom
20 mb
20 sm
1 lightning sentry
1 wake of fire
rest in to dtalon (enough for 4 kicks), dflight, and prereqs. One to death sentry for pvm.

Because there are such few points in traps absorbers don't heal much from my traps. I concentrate instead on mb and occasional hit-and-run style dflight+dtalon (which deal the venom dmg as well as inflict ow).

I keep a <ias jewel with some second mod>-socketed widowmaker and sometimes when people run away I snipe them with the wm.

The thing is, though, GA from WM is little more than a last resort. It doesn't do much damage. If you want a bow shooting char, try a zon. (not pallies cuz I don't like them :lol: )

[Richie Daggers Crime]

WindowMarker... I like that! Vemon too!! It's like lemon flavored poison!

[poor_assassin]

toss out some skiller charms for resists

[UsDVS]

what you could also do is make a normal melee or hybrid sin, and have that on switch.

you would df in claw , when he runs switch and shoot him, when he stops to attack switch back and df in and claw more, etc.

[Sokar Rostau]

It's kind of a concept that would work really well, in theory, but doesn't really.

Enchantresses can become bowasorcs for one reason: teleport. They don't have to worry about wearing Enigma, and teleport is crucial for this character, because if they don't have it, they're a sitting duck. You'd need a lot of FR/W to make up for it.

A bowasin would have the problem of resists because none of their gear would give it to them. The only resists they would have would be the ones they get from their Anni, their ammy, and their charms. The rest of the slots would be taken up.

If I were going to try a bowasin, here's what I would use...

-80/30'd Giant Skull
-160/60
-Storm Hide
-Shael'd Widowmaker
-IAS Gloves
-SOJs
-IAS Belt
-Gore Riders

140% IAS, not including what you get from BOS. Don't even worry about the resists, because they're crap. If you really need resists, you could use fade, but then you wouldn't have BOS, which would lead to bad IAS, which would lead to losing, which leads to the reason the bowasin doesn't really work.

If someone can make it work, I'd definitely be interested.


So, this is the Den of Evil Women? Can't say I like the decor. Kinda dark and shadowy. I was a level 96 victim of a Lister Mindblast assasination in the final days of last season so forgive me but I'll say my piece and leave you to your nefarious schemings.

I am currently building a bow asn (Bandit? is that the name?) and came here for some pointers but this post stood out so much I am compelled to reply. There is a virus rife on b.net. I do not know it's name but the symptoms are generally the same across all classes. This is the virus that causes all Paladins to use HoZ or Exile and to consider all other shields as useless. This same virus demands that no Barbarian can be effective without certain Warcries and can only wear Arreat's Face on their head. The same people that demand all builds of any given class use certain equipment and/or skills are also those that loudly proclaim the inability of an innovative build to pass Hell.

I have no doubt that an asn using the equipment outlined above will be pathetic. To begin with, what possible use on earth would a build that uses physical (and poison) damage want with SoJ?? I know you people on the American realms have this strange idea that a SoJ is valuable but unless you are a caster it really is a useless item, except when crafting. For any build that is not a caster Bul Kathos' Wedding Band is a far, far, superior choice, in that it actually gives you mods that are of some use. It has already been stated in this thread that very little IAS is required in order to reach the breakpoint so why is every item IAS-centric? No bloody wonder you have no resists. Trang Gloves will be a better choice than most IAS gloves, the only other gloves I am considering using being Lavagout for the ctc Enchant and Laying of Hands for the 350% damage to demons, why Trang? I think +25% to poison skill damage should answer that question. The armour you have mentioned is obviously a dupe and is therefore only available on one realm out of the six, but I suppose you will just suggest using (duped) Enigma on the other realms won't you.

You cannot place an item with oskills onto a premade character and expect it to perform well, the character must be built from the ground up around the item unless it is a novelty and the skill is rarely, if ever, used.

If there is another thread with more details let me know so I can find out what people that have actually USED this build have to say. In the absence of this my projected skill setup is:

20 BoS (done)
20 CoS (currently 1)
20 MB (currently 2)
20 Venom (currently 8)
20 Master (currently 8)

I will be maxing CoS last so it will probably not get much past 10 hard skill points into it.

My equipment will probably be:
ias/xx Andariel Visage or ias/xx Kira's if I am hurting for resists or Giant Skull/CoA again with a combo of ias/xx and poison facets
Highlord's (ias) Seraph (damage to demons/undead) or Mara (resist all) or a good rare.
Shael'd Widowmaker/Shael-Shael Hellrack on switch
Nat's Armour with a combination of poison facets and ias/resist jewels
Trang Gloves
BK ring
String of Ears (life leech and DR)
Dual Leech resist ring
probably Gore Riders

[Metroid_01]

ok ive been designing a bow sorc of my own and the principle is very similar.
first of all, the idea here is that you do not require many hits for the kill right? therefore i say goreriders are not the best choice because you are trying to deal your massive psn damage, not physical. also you want to bump poison as much as possible so you go with a bramble as your armor.
also my suggestion is either a good Coa (2 socs is a must) or an andys visage both with as many ias jewels as u can fit in em. the coa is of cource better for res and dr and you come close to the ias of an andariels anyways.
now for a belt id try a dungo or maybe an arachnid mesh.
amulet is cats eye (run/walk dex and ias ^^) or the popular highlords. the reason i dont automatically say highlords is because i think that you dont need the deadly as much. also the cats lets you run fast which is gonna be useful.
oh ya boots haha. go with shadows or something. 2 shadow disciplines, 40% ias and some dex..(plus they are black woo!) this is better. more poison and a bit more run/walk.
(plus if you can get the ias up right you can function perfectly without bos which would be the most ideal clause here so you can use fade.)
rings are prolly gonna be highlords because you dont need the mana from sojs.
remember the idea here is to hit and let your psn do its work...and really nothing else.
lets see...
30% ias helm
20% ias ammy
20% ias bow
(could go with noseferatus 10% ias)
(could switch armor for a 45% ias nats armor)
doesnt appear we are gonna hit the last breakpoint without bos or without the major sacrifice of your armor.
so i guess for casters you would give the lesser damage but more resistance happy alternative a shot, and for all else you will need that extra run speed anyways.

skills you could get away with
20~ bos (more + skills = less bos! of cource just get enough speed to hit that damn breakpoint because extra points there are so useless.)
20~ fade (same as above max dr would be fun, but prolly not to helpful because if something that does damage affected by dr hits you, ur prolly dead.)
20 venom
20 shadow master
rest can go to fun support skills.

edit: i noticed some ideas were to use skills like cloak and mb. while this is great pvm, this build is definitely too frail to stay on screen with an enemy too long, you lack the amazing dodges of an amazon but make it up with pure speed. you want to keep your enemies FAR. being in a situation where mind blast is neccesary is very dangerous to this build because of its very easy to land a damaging blow.

i do agree that jesus...there is NO reason to be trying to pump your pitiful physical damage when your psn can be bumped up so much more. specially...gasp...with legitimate items.