View Full Version : CoT/PS Dual Claw Eqpt Help
I am relatively experienced DII player, having played since it came out. I have, however, had difficulty with the sin. I am currently using some of the ideas presented in skygoneblue's Phoenix Striker Guide. (Thanks skygoneblue) With this setup, I will use the Nat's set, as well as some other sundries. (Highlords, Raven/Dwarf, Verdungo's, Bartuc's (upped when I get a pul), and Laying of Hands or Dracul's) I am having one problem, however. While I cannot find a pul, I do have access to just about any other rune from my own and my friends mules. I cannot, for the life of me decide what to socket where. My current plan is to Cham, Ber, Jah the armour, Jah or Um the helm, Shael or Ohm the Nat's Claw, Jah or Shael the Tuc's. This would give me some IAS, DR, Life, ITD, and a ring slot(CBF on Cham) I would like some assistance in this, as wasting high runes is not exactly my idea of a good time. Any other equiptment ideas would be welcome, as I am not sure about Nat's set. High runes do not grow on trees, but neither do uber rares or perfect armours. I think that the best way to go is what I mentioned above. More expensive ideas are out there, but these being more expensive for roughly the same stats... Thanks for any advice you may have.
Laran
If you're going to be socketing that expensive of equipment, you may as well go with unique/set/rare/runewords and make a stronger build. I was toying around with "optimum" gear for a CoT sin earlier. The IAS is knida technical, but everything else is pretty simple. If you skip the Fade and go BoS the IAS issue will disappear completely. On the other hand you end up with lower Damage Reduction/Resists.
clicky (http://www.rpgforums.net/showthread.php?t=238963&highlight=phoenix)I don't think I finalized equipment until near the end, but the basics are in the first post.
If you are having trouble with sins in general, the one tip I have is this: think differently. Assassins live up to their name - they have some very powerful strikes, but can't tank worth a darn. To back this up they have a lot of 1-pt wonders that make playing a dream. With the right equipment tanking is possible, but still not like the Zealot/Barb machines.
Clicky no worky. "Cannot Find Server". Could you paraphrase?
Thanks,
Laran
Hmm, forums have been giving me a bit of trouble, not sure if that was it or not. Second Try (http://www.rpgforums.net/showthread.php?t=238963).
Summary Equipment:
Weapons - one fast, one slow (i.e. shael bartucs + second)
Helm - Griffons/Shako (either one, Shako has DR and MF)
Armor - Chains of Honor
Gloves - MA/IAS (+3/20 or crafted)
Belt - Thundergod's Vigor (for black souls)
Boots - Goreriders
Ammy - Highlords
Rings - Raven Frost + secondary (any good ring or second Raven Frost)
Charms - as many MA charms as possible with enough space to pick things up
IAS summary:IAS Clacluations (read the stickies before trying to tackle this)
The whole trick to this build is reaching the 10-frame break for DC and CoT without the boost from BoS. Now, how on earth can you do this? After the recent investigation of WSM with dual claw setups, I have figured the best way is to tweak out everything to the greatest possible extent. To reach the 10-frame attack, a total of 63 EIAS needs to be reached, and there is a 25 EIAS penalty for using dual claws.
Code:
Table of IAS needed to reach the 10-frame attack
WSM IAS
-30 120
-40 85
-45 75
-50 60
I based these numbers on the fact that there is no way to actually get (for example) 117 IAS from equipment with a -30 base speed. Now the big question - how on earth do you expect to get -40 or -50 WSM? For that, I will quote the latest from jRichard
A note on the WSM when using a c/c setup. If you are equipping your primary claw on the left side of the char screen, the WSMs of the two claws will be averaged. If you are equipping your primary claw on the right side of the character screen, your WSM will be the result of this:
(primary_WSM + secondary+WSM)/2+(primary_WSM - secondary_WSM)
Is it just me, or is there no mana leech on any of that eqpt. Keep in mind also (don't think I mentioned this) that I am using BoS, as opposed to fade. I saw your guide, and it is a bit "involved" for me, I am generally a hack-and-slash kinda guy. I can (and do) use CoS and MB to help with larger packs and ranged attackers, but using DS (as your guide suggests) is too involved for me as I can only use the FKeys, and a scrolling mouse (the more things on my hotkeys, the harder it is to quickly get the right one. I do not understand your Griffin's, as it only seems to work for some of the charges (I think). Maybe it is just me, but were I not use to use the set, I would probably do something like this:
Helm: Gaze (ber)
Armour: CoH
Gloves: +3 MA/20 IAS (Leech or CBlow if possible)
Belt: Verdungo's (for DR and life) or String (leech and DR)
Boots: Rare/Crafted with life R/W and Res, or Waterwalks or Sandstorm... (Doesn't CB,OW, and DS have a timer on them? Kind of like NextDelay?)
Ammy: Highlords
Rings: Raven/BK (Or rare/crafted with leech and res)
Claws: Upped Shael Bartucs/ Fury Claw
My problem here, is that I really am used to taking a few hits. With my LL below 20, and low DR (no fade), I get the unpleasant feeling that I am going to die quite a bit. I can see why you would use TGods, but I think that with 1 point in fade, and my 5 in BoS (that's just what is currently on the char) I should be able to face the possibility of BlackSouls. If I add correctly, I think I would have (7+8+(7)+7) 22 with Verdungo's, 29 with String (but lower total life) and (15(8)+8+15) Maxed DR (with perf eqpt). My res would be only so so, depending on if I can get some decent rare boots in ladder. Blocking would be ~50. So... Maybe I am being a little silly, pumping up on the LL and the DR. If I am, slap me out of it, 'cause it's driving me nuts.
Thanks,
Laran
P.S. I don't understand how Primary Claw is selected, could you point me there? <--- Newb to forum.
BIGeyedBUG
16-09-2004, 02:48
P.S. I don't understand how Primary Claw is selected, could you point me there?
The simple answer is that it's the claw you equip first. However when you weaponswitch and when you retrieve your body the game forces whatever claw was screen-left to become primary. Consequently the simplest thing to do is to equip your primary screen-left.
However, if you want to take advantage of the Southpaw EIAS bug like in ilkori's build, you'll have to equip a primary screen-right and either never die or weaponswitch OR reequip after doing either of those things.
If you want an in-depth description of the Southpaw bug, see JRichards pinned C/C Attack Speed Basics thread.
Thanks, I will take a peek at that.
Any help on the Equipment? Nat's, while having problems with defence (among other things) seems to be the easiest way of equiping this character. With the plus-skills, leech, and resistances (along with the rest of it), it seems to just be better (more well rounded) than anything else I can think of. I am not looking to be an "uber-gamer" or anything, I just want to be the best, while still retaining the ability to handle most, if not all, situations.
::Bump::
I really could use a little help here, as my assassin nears 80 with rare scale mail. Just to clarify, I am using BoS and my primary concern is survivability. High damage output is important, hence my need for +Skills. Nali seems to know quite a bit about ... well ... everything. Maybe he could help me out. Thanks Bug and Yoda (never remember peoples accts, just avatars) for the help so far.
:Edit:
More questions. With Bartuc's my primary, and Nat's my secondary (lvl12 BoS with plus skills), I would need 10 IAS from eqpt to reach 7fps attack with Animal attacks (TS, CS, PS), and 29 IAS from eqpt to reach 10fps from elemental charge-ups and DClaw. With 20 IAS on my gloves, I would need 9 from elsewhere, thus the Shael in the tucs. If you hadn't noticed, I am arguing in defense of the Nat's Set. Please argue against me, loving a set with such low armour gives me chills...
BIGeyedBUG
17-09-2004, 05:50
Low defense? Who cares? I really don't think defense is that helpful PvM except for a some specific, non-Assassin builds. Oh sorry, I was supposed to argue against Nat's, wasn't I? Honestly, it seems like a decent, versatile, safe choice. I can't really say for sure, since I've never used the full set.
There are only two arguements against Nat's set I can think of: 1) Kickers 2) Trappers. With any other assassin build, Nat's can take you through the game (provided you can survive to level 79 to equip the claw). It's a great set, and I'm frankly used to playing most assassin builds with less than 1.5k total defence with Cloak of Shadows on.
A few misc. equipment thoughts:
1) If you aren't going Unique/Set/Runeword, then Nat's is honestly one of the best choices out there. Between the skills and damage, it's hard to beat. The armor customization is also a great tool.
2) The -X resistance from Griffons works, even when the +% damage doesn't work. That will add more damage in the long run than a sing +skill.
3) DR - I was planning on using Fade with my other build, which would provide a fair amount of DR (especially with +skills). Shako+CoH has 18, which means I'd have to buff to level 32 Fade in order to have max DR. Frankly I usually finish the game with 20-30 DR depending on what build I'm using.
4) Skill swapping: I use ~10 keys for every build I make. The F-keys stopped working well for me once I started using assassins, I just didn't have enough keys, and they were too far apart.
There are only two arguements against Nat's set I can think of: 1) Kickers 2) Trappers.
Why is that? Do the boots not do enough damage?
A few misc. equipment thoughts:
1) If you aren't going Unique/Set/Runeword, then Nat's is honestly one of the best choices out there. Between the skills and damage, it's hard to beat. The armor customization is also a great tool.
I would be more than happy to work with unique/set/runewords if I believed they were the better option. However, I see too few options that give all of the benefits of the Natalya's Set. (Other than looking rather silly, of course.) With 48%DR (I discovered my Verdungo's has only 10%DR :grrr: ) huge leech, 60 to all resistances (with an additional 15 to cold and lightning), +5 to Assassin Skills (with Tuc's), 3 to the MA tree (with +2MA skill gloves, anyone have some good ones on USEast Ladder?), 1300-1500 Defense, and decent damage... I simply can't find anything that comes close. Your unique/runeword setup has it's merits, don't get me wrong, but is it close enough to consider that set up? Especially when I can get the lightres reduction from Facets? I think that Nat's Set is, arguably, better for the Sin than any other set is for its given class, as it seems to be the single best setup for a MA sin using BoS. For all other character classes, there is always something better.
:spy: I plan to look around more for a better setup (what I really need from my other eqpt is CBlow and more +Skills ... Arachnid's Mesh?), preferably with more damage. Other than that, I just need to learn how to (effectively) juggle all the skills that I have at my disposal. The assassin is the Batman of DII. (Is Blade Fury worth a single point? Even with no CBlow?) Well I think that I have ranted long enough :rant: , though I beg you :worship: to tell me a better setup. Even though I have Nat's Set already, it came cheap and I could probably get different equiptment with fairly little hassle.
Thanks Much,
Laran
I've got a hard time arguing with Nats. You lose the CB, DS, OW of my setup, but frankly single targets aren't the problem anyway. Resists are about the same, -x res is about the same, defence is higher. The only real downside is losing a few skill points. A few charms can always make up for less than perfect resists.
(Doesn't CB,OW, and DS have a timer on them? Kind of like NextDelay?)No.
There are only two arguements against Nat's set I can think of: 1) Kickers 2) Trappers.
Why is that? Do the boots not do enough damage?
1) kicks - The equipment gets in the way of all decent sources of Crushing Blow, and the boot damage isn't worth using by the time you can equip the boots. At level 25 you can have better boots (20 frw War Boots).
2) trappers - very low +skills compared to alternatives - I find that trappers only need a Shadow/Merc for defence; everything else is offence.
In that case, what should my other eqpt be? I'm still thinking Verdungo's, Angelic (if I put my cham in the hat) or Highlord's (Maras instead?) with wisp projector and BK Ring (or SoJ?), Upped Shael Tucs, and some MA Skill gloves. Would this work? Other than TGods (which is good, but the life and DR I think out weigh it) Are there any other different setups that you could suggest? I was really hoping that Nali or skygoneblue would chime in; they seem to have all the answers. Well... the only other thing I would like to have a little advice on would be the socketing of the armour/helm/claw from nats set. I was thinking that I would put a lightning facet jewel in the claw, Jah in the hat, Cham/???/??? in the armour. More lightning facets? They ARE rather hard to come by, especially good ones.
Thanks for the input,
Laran
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