View Full Version : PvP Fire Druid Question, not Fc but Volcano Etc..
LovelyGods
07-09-2004, 06:42
Sup,
i read fire druid guide in thread, its more geared twards pvm, what about pvp?
anyone have a guide or can explain pvp Fire druid better? Ive heard of them doing insane damage, and killing very fast, but never seen one..
anyone got any tips / pointers / gear choices.
Basically , Anyone have a Pvp Fire druid guide??
Also for Garbad, you need to come moderate the pala forums a little bit more, there is alot of flaming going on and nonsence threads that need cleaned up.
Thx.
The only Insane damage a fire druid will do is with a lucky geddon hit(don't count on anyone with eyes actually getting hit by it though). They do reliable, fairly ranged, damage with volcano and fissure however. You Can kill fast if the opponent sucks, but if they stack some res and dr you won't be killing too fast. Played correctly, a fire druid can do about as well as a windy(without people whining about cookie-cutterness). I don't know much about building a pvp fire druid, but I've seen them in action.
Geddon is the coolest looking skill a druid has but its so damn random. Too bad its not aimed like traps are :(
proudfoot
07-09-2004, 07:21
Fire Druids can be great. Basically you want to either max all synergies or max oak and the rest in synergies (with Volcano/Fissure and Armageddon being your main skills), go for 68% FCR, and get lots of life and resists and mana and all. Fairly basic caster, with delays on your ranged spells and slightly unique tactics.
Good luck!
be sure when u duel that u dont just randomly spam volcanos around.. fire druids area all timed so you have to use ur attacks wisely :O too bad armageddon doesnt have homing
mepersoner
07-09-2004, 10:37
Fire druids are tough. Basically two builds:
Max Firestorm
Max Molten Boulder
Max Fissure
Max Volcano
Max Geddon
1 arctic blast
1 cyclone armor
1 twisters
1 tornado
1 hurricane
1 oak
1 ravens
1 spirit wolf
1 Firestorm
Max Molten Boulder
Max Fissure
Max Volcano
Max Armageddon
1 arctic blast
1 twisters
1 cyclone armor
1 tornado
1 hurricane
1 ravens
1 spirit wolves
max oak
Armageddon does insane damage, but rarely hits. You'll basically be slowly picking them off with volcano and hoping to get an occassional armageddon to smack them in the face.
You can't really say insane damage since a fireball sorc can aim/spam more. :\
But for a druid, yes it's quite high.
Umm, my comments, let's see.
I was wwing mep's jewid when he was AFK because I'm a geu and his geddon killed me. Sad.
mepersoner
07-09-2004, 11:31
I don't have max synergies for armageddon either.
Armageddon's damage fully synergized would be close to a fireball sorcs I think, helps that part of it is physical and it leaves little fires that do damage/sec as well.
what,you've never seen a fire druid brian??
msg me somewhen ill show you some fire druid supremacy
LovelyGods
08-09-2004, 06:19
lol ash i've seen ur fire druid, but i dont know how viable it is against teleporting necros, sorcy , etc...
maybe i should just make that new breed of pala i came up with, after marcus gives me a report first hehe.....
lol ash i've seen ur fire druid, but i dont know how viable it is against teleporting necros, sorcy , etc...
maybe i should just make that new breed of pala i came up with, after marcus gives me a report first hehe.....
I assume tele lidless sorcs = ***** unless they stay off screen.
Its plenty viable as long as you can teleport yourself.
I've found Armageddon to be way more effective if you don't teleport,which I don't anyway so yeha.
Remember your FCR/mana wont be great unless you wish to focus on that,which would make you lose some damage.
Wouldn't volcano be much more effective than geddon? Having never made a fire druid, I only know what I've seen, and I've never seen anyone die to geddon who could teleport(particularly if they have any kind of range). On the other hand, maybe you know a way to get people to hit it?
Doesn't seem like fast cast would be more of a problem than for any other caster. Mages,hoto(wiz), arach =80 or 90 right there. What gear would you normally use for a pvp fire druid?
Wouldn't volcano be much more effective than geddon? Having never made a fire druid, I only know what I've seen, and I've never seen anyone die to geddon who could teleport(particularly if they have any kind of range). On the other hand, maybe you know a way to get people to hit it?
Doesn't seem like fast cast would be more of a problem than for any other caster. Mages,hoto(wiz), arach =80 or 90 right there. What gear would you normally use for a pvp fire druid?
Earth****ter duh. :lol:
skygoneblue
08-09-2004, 16:14
Wouldn't volcano be much more effective than geddon? Having never made a fire druid, I only know what I've seen, and I've never seen anyone die to geddon who could teleport(particularly if they have any kind of range). On the other hand, maybe you know a way to get people to hit it?
Doesn't seem like fast cast would be more of a problem than for any other caster. Mages,hoto(wiz), arach =80 or 90 right there. What gear would you normally use for a pvp fire druid?
Well, Im no Fire Druid, but I can easily see some dumbass dying trying to chase a Druid with Armageddon active as opposed to some dumbass standing still for 6 seconds (if it even takes that long) on top of a Volcano. :lol:
Basing a build on assumption of stupidity of your opponnent is not good :(
@Dim Ethreal for more damage!
skygoneblue
08-09-2004, 16:56
Agreed. That's why I don't have a PvP Fire Druid.
With 80% fcr you'd still be teleporting at what, 11 frames? not really fast for it to be worth it.
Your fire druid basically has 3 main attacks being volcano,armageddon and fissure,then there are two secondary attacks which are almost exclusively used against melee opponnents or just for kicks which would be firestorm and molten boulder.
As for hitting your opponent with armageddon,I'm using an ancient ultra secret ninja technique for it to hit,which works quite well.
inkanddagger
08-09-2004, 17:38
there are patterns to armageddon. those of us who have played ele druids since 08 know these secret ninja-like techniques to making it hit :D
fissure is massive vs things that run/charge/whirlwind. you have 5k per fissure with dozens of them opening up. anyone running over a fissured area is going to take as much damage from it as they would from 3 fireballs from a high damage fb sorc.
volcano works great against people who tele, even if it takes a while to kill them.It prevents them from doing anything but continuously teleporting, and therefore unable to attack.
80 fcr will get you away from bone spirits and whatnot. you can always use 2 fc rings for more if you want the 100 bad enough.
Too bad ultra secret techniques don't stop anyone with hotspurs and ss :)
Let me get this straight. You actually can get a tele bone nec(or anyone else with range) to hit a geddon rock(all while not teleporting yourself)? Please elaborate.
I have never been stoped from attacking by a volcano. It has a delay, so all you have to do is tele twice and then attack.
CrossHair
09-09-2004, 01:11
Like Mep said, there's the pure damage:
Firestorm
Fissure
Molten Boulder
Volcano
Armageddon
which will probabaly require max block and lower life since oak sage isn't there
Then there's the life druid:
Fissure
Molten Boulder
Volcano
Armageddon
Oak Sage
which will prolly be a life druid more than anything else, so max vit and using bonuses from sage you'll get better returns with life since you can stop phys and ele attacks.
In my opinion, I think the second choice is better. Without really being a wind druid (though you have access to their skills), your cyclone armor will be fairly weak, thus you need to have very high life to stop spells. Block alone will not do this. With Sage and pure vit, you can have very high life for not only phys but ele attacks. A high block druid will be good vs melee, but is much weaker vs elementals.
The main 2 skills that could be used are Volcano and Fissure. Fissure for strictly fire damage, but requires firestorm as synergy. Volcano however does physical damage, so it's more viable (a lot harder to completely absorb it). Volcano is however somewhat hard to use since it has a 4 second cooldown so misplacing a volcano can make you be very vulnarable.
I'm thinking of making the second build. It should give me good damage (volcano synergies will be maxed, armageddon will be decent, twisters for stun -1pt only). The oak and high vit should make me a decent tank. With +skills to cyclone it will also do decent I think, but will be severly underpowered since its synergies will only be level 1.
I was actually also thinking of making a hybrid with maxed volcano/boulder for the physical damage, then oak sage, cyclone armor, and tornado as a spammable skill. The oak and armor would make you faily tough as a wind druid. The combo of volcano/boulder/cyclone would be well since you can cast cyclone during volcano (correct?). But I fgure that this isn't worth it since a pure windy would probabaly have a better damage output.
Max block is close to neccessary to beat any good tele barb/ww sin. Sure you can teleport out of the way and volcano them, but a good barb will anticipate this and double tele on you(2-3 quick wws and its over with no block) or a ww sin will trap+mb you(not a ton you can do about this anyway, but no block makes it worse). You will be Very vulnerable to a good charger of any kind since you won't have the close-ranged power a windy does and you will have times where you are defenseless(geddon might save you, but it might not).
Druids get sucky returns on vita(counting on oak isn't good, since it dies so fast), so it is not too effecient to use over block(unless you only plan on dueling casters).
A hybrid May work for pvm, but would be too weak for pvp.
CrossHair
09-09-2004, 04:28
So are you recommending the pure damage druid? 1 pt oak sage and max block?
Oak is still a nice thing to have in certain duels. I know for sure I would go max block just because I don't like losing to melee when I can prevent it so easily. I don't know if I would go for oak or not. I would have to see the damage lost and probably test out both ways.
LovelyGods
09-09-2004, 16:58
hm.....
well i think im gonna go with the All Damage build.
WHY?
Cuz oak sage dies too quicky. Even One shard of a frozen orb will kill it. making u have NO life i u depend on it.
if anything put one Pt into it for good measure. you can always prebuff..
as for that "magical wayto hit with geddon" what is it??? some sort of trick for it? Some people in here said that you do not need to teleport inorder for this to work, That might be true but won't a good teleporting necro or sorc kill you in a jiffy if u dont move out of the way.???
skygoneblue
09-09-2004, 17:36
Well, you can always use the Oak charges from HotO too.
mepersoner
09-09-2004, 18:47
You guys exaggerate how fast oak dies. Oo
It really depends who you are dueling.
I,personally went for the raw damage route and mep went for the oak route and me > him so that says it all. :D
mepersoner
10-09-2004, 02:51
Didn't I respond to this...?
Hah, I wonder where I responded at, oh well.
Yes, he wins in fire druid vs. fire druid. As we all know that defines what the better build for dueling overall is. Let's take melee versus melee, where the higher defense wins, or in .09 where it was whoever had the most damage from pumping strength, even if it meant low life...
Go strength barb vs. tweaker! The winner is the best overall dueler, obviously.
;)
Oak should be like ravens. You wouldn't think it would be very hard to teach it to float a little higher. Or at least teach it to NOT go immediatly toward whatever will hurt it most. I swear its suicidal.
Oak dies alot in some duels, but in others it is fine. Dueling anyone with AoE damage pretty much kills it instantly and is almost not worth recasting(40ish mana each time). Stoping to recast(even a split second) against a fast, skilled sorc can get you killed. Against melee it usually lasts long enough to really be helpful and you can recast it without it dying a half-second after. It also serves as a great way to trap a melee char in your attack when they go for it. I like to cast nados right over it when I see someone going for mine, and I'm sure it would work with fissure. The oak dies, they get hurt, you recast. This tactic works Really well in non-telly melee duels since they can't just tele on you, and going for oak is a great way to lower your life by 2k or more(particularly since hes a bastard and wonders as far away and towards them as possible).
Anger-DRS
11-09-2004, 16:11
Someone needs to go and make a good PVP Fire druid guide for refference, my friend has one, though it dies rather quickly most of the time :lol:
Though, if he chucked Earth****ter mothermaul he may be able to survive alittle longer with hoto+storm/sanc...
Espeonage
11-09-2004, 21:47
My PvP Fire Druid went with the all Damage route, his damage was good, but preferring to Teleport, I killed Geddon's ability to do anything at all. Running is a good way to land it, but while Teleporting against Teleporting Sorcs and Necros, I find it a lot easier to Teleport and land Fissures. Fissure is by far my favorite skill, even if the duel does take a little longer, this way you don't die nearly as easy.
Another tactic, is stunning, which you all know Volcano does. For characters with Max Block, for instance, casting a Volcano directly under them, and, taking a page out of a Wind Druid's book, Teleport directly on top of them with 5 Ravens/Wolves for blocklock and spam Twister for extra stun. I used this tactic to varying degrees of effectiveness. Also, this allowed Geddon to hopefully find a home in their skull. And it packs a punch.
A couple characters that give me trouble are Trappers and to a lesser degree, Wind Druids. Necros are fun to duel, I'll give them that, but I beat them more than they beat me, Poison being by far easier, as Nova travels too slowly if you Teleport.
Also, I'd like some insight into Ravenlore before I go out and buy a good one. Truth be told, I think Shako is much better, but I'd like a few comments about it. It'd be appreciated.
I'm using Ravenlore and I love it. Not only is it rated sexiest helm of the patch but it's stats are also amazing.
You give up some life and mana which shako gives but it's more than worth it to me.Although if you're used to teleporting you may find yourself lacking a bit of mana.. O.o
Chickenhead=nt.
Its best mod is the -res. I like having more skills for my bo personally(recasting it every minute sucks) and more mana for tele, but if you're one of those people who think off-class skills are inherently evil, then go with ravenlore.
Keep in mind, anyone who really wants to lower your damage will already have enough stacked fire res to make ravenlores best mod obsolete.
Weltkriegpally
12-09-2004, 01:17
Chickenhead=nt.
Its best mod is the -res. I like having more skills for my bo personally(recasting it every minute sucks) and more mana for tele, but if you're one of those people who think off-class skills are inherently evil, then go with ravenlore.
Keep in mind, anyone who really wants to lower your damage will already have enough stacked fire res to make ravenlores best mod obsolete.
ok. few things here:: The secret to using geddon is movement. If you run one way, and then back the other almost immediately, you get all of geddons "rocks" to practically double inside the area in which they fall. Aside from that, a ravenlore is a great helm for a pvp fire elemental because of the negative resists, but also because of the resist all, a hard mod to get on a fire elemental. 3 to elemental also makes it a good helm, as pluses to other trees pretty much aren't needed. And why the heck would you need a cta on a fire elemental? It doesn't make much sense to me. Fire elementals work best if you DON'T teleport. in order for your typical wind druid to kill, he has to teleport up close and personal which puts him within range of geddon. One of geddons "rocks" is most often more than enough to completely obliterate cyclone armor, on top of the obvious stun and other attacks that could be used at the same time (firestorm actually works pretty well here). If he chooses not to teleport up close and instead remain outside of geddons range, then he is in danger of dying to fissure/cano, and again the fire elemental wins. The same holds true for hammerdins, necros, sorcs (although necros and sorcs are both royal pains), and others. A fire elemental is not a one shot kill scenario, it takes time, patience, and most importantly, skill to win with, but they are indeed viable builds and shouldn't be discounted.
--welt
I'm sorry but a well built/used windy would beat a fire druid. Cyclone wouldn't even be needed. 90 fire res and 50dr reduce fire druid attacks to very little, and if the windy lands on you, a few nados=death. Without shako and enigma, a fire druid has only 35 dr from ss if he uses it.
I just don't see how you can avoid a tele bone nec or any kind of sorc without teleport. 20k fbs, 40klightning, and 12k blizz are not things you can expect to tank without some absorb or a lot of max res. Even with those, they can blast you from afar all day long(except the blizz sorc). Bone necs have even more of an advantage. All they have to do is get 5 spirits chasing you and then teeth for fhr(or bone prison).
With teleport, you have a good chance against these classes because you can avoid their attacks, while your attack can be namelocked(volcano).
As for cta, you don't NEED it for anything. Just like you don't Need a hoto or Need boots. You use them because they make you stronger.
mepersoner
12-09-2004, 06:52
Fire druids base their main damage around the physical damage and staying back. Armageddon does around 15K fire damage - which isn't exactly easy to negate, as well as some physical damage. As does volcano. I don't use fissure much, so meh.
I'm just saying a windy with 90 fire res will take more hits from a fire druid, than a fire druid will take from a windy. 15k/6=2500 2500x.10=250 damage. Good windys life is around 4k with oak(much higher with the right charms). So thats 16 geddons tanked, not even counting cyclone recasts. I doubt a fire druid can tank 3 nados much less 16. There is some phys damage, but not enough to make that much a difference.
A non-tele fire druid will have a Very hard time staying back from a tele windy. Even teleporting, it would be difficult to avoid being landed on(although a Much better chance than without tele).
mepersoner
12-09-2004, 07:11
Why would you not be teleporting versus a tele windy?
Edit: It isn't difficult.
Why would you not be teleporting versus a tele windy?
Edit: It isn't difficult.
Run in wide circles = gfg windy.
Theoretically, simply running in circles and letting geddon hit them when they try to tele on you, and running over fissures should be able to kill a windy. In practice, it's a lot harder to do.
Not to mention a windy would have to be an idiot to fall for that more than once(or even the first time). Eventually, through lag or a raven causing block or whatever, the windy would catch up and its gg. Teleporting in front of the fire druid(not namelock) would also allow for a quick kill. I use that tactic against other windys since teleporting on top=death.
@mepersoner Some of the people posting above me thought a fire druid did better without enigma.
mepersoner
12-09-2004, 09:02
That's stupid. Having the option to teleport just makes you more versatile. Just because you can teleport doesn't mean you always should.
Weltkriegpally
12-09-2004, 09:38
I particularly find fire druids more viable without teleport than with. aside from that, I get my 50 dr pretty easily, using a very underestimated belt for the build....verdungoes. the plus vit isn't too useful, but the fhr and dr are very useful. I also use a stealth, because the str, 2 all skills, and 45 frw of the enigma aren't useful compared to the 25 fhr/fcr/frw I get from the stealth. Thats just what I prefer, though. Aside from that, I use a wizardspike with a 10 resist all/7 fhr/5 str/something else rare jewel in it, ss, ravenlore, etc. Its a strange build, but it does me very well. I still hit level 40ish skills with good life, fhr, dr, and resists. I have no complaints, and no, teleport doesn't help my build at all.
--welt
Whatever works for ya :)
Sometimes teleporting gets you killed more than running would even with a windy. Best example of this is with fast, high damage projectiles like bone spear, fb, and lighnting.
Even without teleport, I would still use enigma because of the other mods.
Espeonage
12-09-2004, 20:48
Firestorm might be range limited, but I have used it to effect against Wind Druids. It does HUGE damage. Garbad called them "snakes," I believe, in his Fire Guide. If all three hit, triple the damage shown, so that could be an upwards of 21k damage? Cyclone Armor will have trouble with that. And after it's gone, I'd like to see a Wind Druid stand up to more than 2-3 of them without sacrificing for 90%+ res and Absorb. With good FHR, DR, and perhaps a bit of positioning, a viable strategy for defeating a Wind Druid could be to just stand there.
And about the guy using Stealth, I don't see how you could think it'd be better than Enigma even with FHR? Enigma has more FRW, +2 Skills, Life, DR, and a HUGE Str boost. I don't see why you'd consider Stealth over it. I personally think, that, even if you aren't using it for Teleport, it's the top armor for this build. Res can be found elsewhere, so Chains of Honor is pretty pointless, but Enigma is just great. I don't think I'd sacrifice it for anything.
90 res is not a sacrifice. I go around dueling with 90 res all the time because I forget to change back to treks and never notice. Absorb is not needed.
What are the odds of a windy standing still for you without hitting you also? The second you get teleported on you are dead. Nados hurt a lot more than firestorm.
Fire storm- 20k/6=3333 3333x.10=333 damage per hit with a long timer.
Nados- 6k/6=1000 1000x.5=500 500 damage per hit with each nado hitting 2-3 times and casting 1.5 nados a second(or something like that).
Just standing against a windy is suicide for almost any char.
GDawgUnit
13-09-2004, 01:10
Well... Ive known my light trapper to kill a LOT of windys
Weltkriegpally
13-09-2004, 06:29
trappers do manage to kill a lot of wind elementals because they lack fhr. Something else you do when you are a moving elemental druid...you don't stand and spam. you cast and move. Its a lot harder to hit a moving target with tornado than most make it out to be, teleport or not. Geddon does manage to tear up cyclone armor pretty well, too. Now someone mentioned earlier about using enigma even if I didn't teleport? Well, in my specific case::
I manage to hit level 40 skills without enigma. Higher than that shouldn't be needed. I get fhr/frw/fcr from one armor slot. Enigma offers 2 to skills, more run/walk, and big str, which I don't care about. Its just as well to put the points in str on a druid, anyways, because of the poor returns on vit. I get some poison resist from my armor, which enigma doesn't offer, and is important for any druid. With my setup, I hit 42 fhr with no help from gloves or boots, and I can still do what I like with those. In all reality, I see no reason to use it, at least not on this guy. Aside from the fact that I will level quicker because I can actually kill stuff without worrying about my equipment earlier on. Sounds like a fair trade to me.
--welt
Ugh..so many things I dissagree with...
Four things.
Any good pvp windy will have more than 42 fhr.
A windy Will level just as fast as, if not faster, than a fire druid.
My windy has never ever had poison res issues. Always maxed.
Almost all targets that a windy hits are moving. How many people duel standing still? Even if you dodge a few teleports, you eventually will stop and cast, which means you stand still just long enough to die. That is how I kill charging fohers with my windy, and thats how you could kill a fire druid.
Weltkriegpally
14-09-2004, 09:32
Ugh..so many things I dissagree with...
Four things.
Any good pvp windy will have more than 42 fhr.
A windy Will level just as fast as, if not faster, than a fire druid.
My windy has never ever had poison res issues. Always maxed.
Almost all targets that a windy hits are moving. How many people duel standing still? Even if you dodge a few teleports, you eventually will stop and cast, which means you stand still just long enough to die. That is how I kill charging fohers with my windy, and thats how you could kill a fire druid.
as far as that goes, 42 was only a base. I still have things like gloves and/or boots that can add fhr. Windys are pretty dependant on fcr. Fires need some, but not nearly as much. Frankly, It isn't all that hard to outrun a wind elementals teleporting, or at least out dodge it. But if it comes down to it, lets just agree to disagree?
--welt
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