to break immunities

[bojddo]

what is required?
i hear amp breaks most physical immunes but not always and that lower resists will if amp doesn't...
is that for like phys immune + stone skin??
and why does lower resists break them if amp doesn't (think lr is less -res than amp's -100)
and does conviction always break immunities too?
it can get to -150

and does this only stand for physical but for elements also?

[PelletBomber]

Amp Dmg break any PI
Lower Res break 1 elemental immune, so if the monster is immune to 2 elements, he is still immune to 1.
Elemental immune monster's resistance is still very high after lower resist.
Conviction can't break immunity, but it helps to lower resistance after the monster is cursed with lower resist.

[Oscuro]

Amp Dmg break any PIWrong, amplify damage can break physical immunity only if the monster has 119% or less resistance to physical
Lower Res break 1 elemental immune, so if the monster is immune to 2 elements, he is still immune to 1.If a monster is immune to an element (or physical), it means that the monster has 100% or greater resist to that element (or physical). When a monster's resistance is greater than 100%, the effectiveness of conviction, lower resist, amplify damage, and decrepify is reduced to 1/5 of their normal effectiveness. For example, if a monster has 120% resistance to cold and is under the influence of a -150% conviction aura, the monster will no longer be cold immune and have a cold resistance of 50%. The lower reistance curse works in the same way as conviction. Amplify damage and decrepify work in the same way, but for physical damage (-100% and -50% respectively).
Elemental immune monster's resistance is still very high after lower resist.
Conviction can't break immunity, but it helps to lower resistance after the monster is cursed with lower resist.Conviction can break an immunity, see above.

[PelletBomber]

Wrong, amplify damage can break physical immunity only if the monster has 119% or less resistance to physical
If a monster is immune to an element (or physical), it means that the monster has 100% or greater resist to that element (or physical). When a monster's resistance is greater than 100%, the effectiveness of conviction, lower resist, amplify damage, and decrepify is reduced to 1/5 of their normal effectiveness. For example, if a monster has 120% resistance to cold and is under the influence of a -150% conviction aura, the monster will no longer be cold immune and have a cold resistance of 50%. The lower reistance curse works in the same way as conviction. Amplify damage and decrepify work in the same way, but for physical damage (-100% and -50% respectively).
Conviction can break an immunity, see above.

Thanks for correcting me.

[bojddo]

because i was thinking of making a bone necro... would lr be able to break magic immunes even if it was only -50% resists?
and it does increase bone spear/spirit damage right?

[Absolutian]

I have played with conviction at -150, early into act 1 Hell. The only immunity I cannot break is Bishbosh's fire, but I expect more to come.

I have not worked with Lower Resist much, but I've heard that it canNOT break immunities. Also, I've heard that sorcs' masteries cannot break immuniities either, but have 0 exp with this.

Thanks a lot for the explanation regarding amp and decrepify. I'd wondered about the difference.

Related q: Can these stack? FOr example, if I have this conviction running, and use wand/daggers with lower resist charges, do they add?

[ash2ash]

because i was thinking of making a bone necro... would lr be able to break magic immunes even if it was only -50% resists?
and it does increase bone spear/spirit damage right?

LR does not affect magic immunity.

[Oscuro]

I have played with conviction at -150, early into act 1 Hell. The only immunity I cannot break is Bishbosh's fire, but I expect more to come.

I have not worked with Lower Resist much, but I've heard that it canNOT break immunities. Also, I've heard that sorcs' masteries cannot break immuniities either, but have 0 exp with this.
Lower resist can indeed break immunities, but it's much less effective than conviction, so most immunities will not be broken because the resistance is too much over 100%.
Thanks a lot for the explanation regarding amp and decrepify. I'd wondered about the difference.

Related q: Can these stack? FOr example, if I have this conviction running, and use wand/daggers with lower resist charges, do they add?
They do indeed stack.

[Armor_Biff]

For example, if a monster has 120% resistance to cold and is under the influence of a -150% conviction aura, the monster will no longer be cold immune and have a cold resistance of 50%.

What !!?? :scratch: I thought that monster would then still have cold resist 90%.

[Oscuro]

What !!?? :scratch: I thought that monster would then still have cold resist 90%.
Here's how it goes: 100% of the 150% conviction is "used" to bring the monster down from 120% to 100%. Once the monster is no longer immune, the remaining 50% of the conviction is applied directly, which means a net 50% cold resistance.

I may be "off by one" here, I'm not sure if the resistance needs to be lowered to 100% or 99% before the 1/5 penalty is avoided.

[RTB]

Ehm, I don't think that's how it goes. The full -150% is used to bring the monster down to 90%. Then Cold mastery and other -% resist from items lowers resists further.

[Oscuro]

Ehm, I don't think that's how it goes. The full -150% is used to bring the monster down to 90%. Then Cold mastery and other -% resist from items lowers resists further.
Can you think of a way to test this? My interest is piqued now.

[aquamoeba]

Ehm, I don't think that's how it goes. The full -150% is used to bring the monster down to 90%. Then Cold mastery and other -% resist from items lowers resists further.

That is how I understand it too. But is there a priority on which apply first (or time based) or do they add together and are applied at once? :scratch:

Example:

Case 1: priority to LR
a monster has 110% resistance to fire
affected by lower resist -55% --> has now 99% FR
affected by conviction -150% --> has now -51%FR

OR
Case 2: priority to CONV
a monster has 110% resistance to fire
affected by conviction -150% --> has now 80%FR
affected by lower resist -55% --> has now 26% FR

OR
Case 3: effects are added and applied at once
a monster has 110% resistance to fire
affected by conviction -150% and lower resist -55% --> has now 69% FR

thanks :worship: ,
aquamoeba

[RTB]

That is how I understand it too. But is there a priority on which apply first (or time based) or do they add together and are applied at once? :scratch:
They're applied at the same time AFAIK.

Obscuro: Not playing D2 either. Deus Ex is one amazing game...

[Thrugg]

Oscuro, you're imagining too much sophistication on the part of the Bliz programmers. It is simply an
if (naturally immune)
then lowering effect = (lowering effect / 5)
This has been read out of the code, it would be far too imprecise to work that out just by testing.

All lowering effects are summed together and all receive the /5 penalty if the creature is naturally immune. You can't apply LR first to break the immune and then use a big conviction to really hurt it. So aquamoeba, it is case 3 (sorry).

However, Cold Mastery and gear effects like facets and Griffon's Eye are applied at a later stage. These can't break immunity, but if the creature is not immune (even if it because of LR or Conviction) then they get their full bonus, no /5 for them.

[aquamoeba]

So -resist from items are applied after all "spells/effects". Good to know! :thumbsup:

thanks,
aquamoeba

[Oscuro]

Thanks for clearing this up, Thrugg.

[Killer_sss]

oopsy worng thread sorry.