The Necro forum seems more 'hostile' then the others

[GovernerOfCali]

I have only visisted the forums for Palis, sorcs, barbs, and necros..... but it appears to me that there are more 'hostile' people in the necro forums then the others. Of course it only takes a few ppl to give an impression... but just from the few threads i've gone through... there seems to be more ppl here who are quick to get on the defensive and insult other ppl compared to other forums. Not sure why i'm posting this... just felt the need to point it out and see of other ppl feel the same way. The necro is one of the more fun characters I think... but the necro forums are are the least fun of them all.
:scratch:

[rickcarson]

I have only visisted the forums for Palis, sorcs, barbs, and necros..... but it appears to me that there are more 'hostile' people in the necro forums then the others. Of course it only takes a few ppl to give an impression... but just from the few threads i've gone through... there seems to be more ppl here who are quick to get on the defensive and insult other ppl compared to other forums. Not sure why i'm posting this... just felt the need to point it out and see of other ppl feel the same way. The necro is one of the more fun characters I think... but the necro forums are are the least fun of them all.
:scratch:

Probably 'cos MM hasn't been around, he has a soothing effect. :)

Also, a lot of people seem to be from 'non English speaking backgrounds', and that doesn't help things. A lot of the more subtle humour seems to get missed.

A lot of other people just won't let something die, won't admit they're wrong. A lot of opinions get stated as facts.

Egos are very fragile (don't know why? Olympics? Stupid politics in the US of A driving everyone nuts???). You post trying to help someone, or answer their question... and they do their nut at you!

Lately I've noticed that on a lot of online forums, not just this one it seems that flamewars start at the drop of a hat.

Used to be in the good old days you had to really work hard to get a flamewar going.

Of course, then there's the people who get mortally offended by any suggestion that Skeletons are not always God's gift to man, and that Mages might be worthwhile playing with instead.

I'm certainly not winning any friends with my posts about Mages, but I was having fun with them for a while. Writing a guide is so hard, because I don't want it to be a big flame magnet for the Skellies vs Mages crowd, I'd like to not mention Skellies at all, but there's always one person who wants to pop up and go 'oh, why didn't you just go with skellies and then add mages later?'. :rant:

My policy is to try to explain my position, then if the person is still being a complete moron, poke fun at them, then if that doesn't work, simply ignore them. that way, they get 'the last word' and get to feel all superior.

At University I noticed that intellectuals tend to think that anyone not agreeing with them is either (a) stupid, or (b) simply needs 'the facts' (ie their opinion) restated to them. What they don't realize is that often people don't even agree on the facts, and even if they did there are often multiple interpretations of them, and even if you agree on the facts, and how to interpret them, you can still hold a perfectly valid difference of opinion. There seems to be a lot of that going around.

[essojay]

It would be nice if people could do something about the problem you mention, wouldn't it? Unfortunately, simply pointing it out won't help solve it, I'm afraid.

It's not like only the vets are to be blamed for this, as a forumite you and I too are held accountable. If the forum sucks, whose fault is it other than the forumites ourselves?

Set an example to other people, and that way people would be more inclined to be nicer to you. Surely you weren't expecting people not to be defensive when a thread such as this is posted?

I'm pretty sure you meant to make the nec forum a better place for us, but I don't think people will take it as well as you hoped they would.

By the way, I didn't really notice the hostility while I was lurking here. Maybe I'm just slow, especially since English isn't my first language ...

(If I'm overreacting, which I probably am, please forgive me.)

[soulesschild]

Im A Blood Thirsty Demon Wanting Your Blood! Die Die Die Die Die!!!!!!

;)

[Mad Mantis]

Not sure why i'm posting this... just felt the need to point it out and see of other ppl feel the same way.

This has gotten my attention lately. A lot of threads seem to spiral out of control. What starts as a normal difference of opinion immediately degrades to an incomprehensible flame war. And why people don’t use PM’s for this is beyond me.

It strikes me that there are a few names that keep popping up in these threads. They seem to be trying to build up a reputation as a knowledgeable member of the community. Unfortunately they do this in a wrong way. Insulting members and dragging arguments on for a very long time.
And a few of the regs seem to have taken some hard stances and are aggressively defending them.

The solution to this all lies with all of us. We should all be more reserved in our posting. Only post if you can actually contribute something to a thread. If you have a difference of opinion with someone try to stay polite, even if they are not. Making a personal attack is a sign of mental weakness. Don’t drag on conversations in a thread. Take it to the PM’s. And if you feel someone is being an azz then PM DK.

Maybe even DK can contribute to this. He could flex his mod muscles a bit more visibly. I know he likes to work in the dark, but being visible now and again keeps people in line.

Normally I try to answer politely and in a respectful manner. Even if people refuse to use proper grammar or even spell check. Don’t know if I managed to convey that image in the last few weeks. Your post got me thinking about that and I would like to hear it if anybody has a beef with me.

[Leuchovius]

Your post got me thinking about that and I would like to hear it if anybody has a beef with me.

I don't think anyone has a beef with you, MM :)

Back in 1.09 the necro forum used to be pretty flame-free. Wonder why it's changed?

[EuroJamie]

I blame our diminuitive statures in comparison to the other D2x character classes. It gives us all a bit of a complex.

We are the Joe Pescis of BNet :evil:

[Mad Mantis]

Part of the reason is the influx of new Necromancers. Some of the vets have gotten a bit edgy. But recently most of the vets seem to have calmed down. The hostility seems to come from other regs and lurkers.

People also seem to take every remark as an insult. I have seen some things categorized as flamy while I thought it to be a mere figure of speech. Stop taking things personal. Unless they actually insult you. Then send a message to DK. No need to get dragged into a flame fest.

[soulesschild]

oh im usually mild mannered until i see the same kind of question pop up 98739257x times just reworded differently, or when people make stupid posts

go read the pvp forum, oh man thats filled with flames o.O

[GovernerOfCali]

PvP = Flames...lol.. not suprising
.... I just read the barb forums... I guess talking about whirlwind speed, range, breakpoints, and damage can cause a pretty bit dispute too.


oh im usually mild mannered until i see the same kind of question pop up 98739257x times just reworded differently, or when people make stupid posts

go read the pvp forum, oh man thats filled with flames o.O

[royalesse]

I blame our diminuitive statures in comparison to the other D2x character classes. It gives us all a bit of a complex.

We are the Joe Pescis of BNet :evil:
That's odd... I always thought of Christopher Walken whenever I saw the Necro graphic

[Ash Housewares]

there's sort of a gap between the new and old necros

you've got the Iplaynecrocustheysuk vs. the Iplaynecrocustheyrfun

as you can see, those who wanted past challenge vs. those who want to be overpowered and only ever ask about marrowbug, it's a volatile situation

[soulesschild]

go ash for cutting to the chase

when i see 6 posts on the front page about the marrow bug, it frankly pisses me off, all these pubby newbs going for the new so called "bowazon" of 1.10. Not that it's true of course of everyone.

Another thing that is irritating is those damned "rate my necro" threads, as well as the people that say something like, "oh its not in the stickies" when it actually is.

[Dark Knight]

And if you feel someone is being an azz then PM DK.

Maybe even DK can contribute to this. He could flex his mod muscles a bit more visibly. I know he likes to work in the dark, but being visible now and again keeps people in line.
My opinions are as follows;

* Vets need to think objectively before rushing to "defend" fellow vets at times.

* Disagreement of a topic should not be seen as an attack... things get too personal.

If I see - or hear about - someone trying to build a badazz rep for themselves I will deal with it. I do indeed like to work "in the dark", however as anyone who has ever PMed me knows I respond swiftly and to each PM.

If theres trouble on the forums, and ive missed it, or you have other concerns then please feel free to send me a private message. The admins have given me an inbox of 75 so I'm supposed to recieve them! :D

Speaking generally, forums often develop a "defensive vets" culture and its something that everyone needs to think about. Necromancers always used to be the aloof underdogs, and in my memory looked down on "outsiders" (E.g other classes and people at times), which is a quality not needed on these forums.

And as I always say - if you dont like, or cannot post constructively in a thread, then dont!

Lastly, a welcome to any new lurking necro members - come out and post! You can call me if you are feeling trodden on! :p

~DK

[Kyo]

go ash for cutting to the chase

when i see 6 posts on the front page about the marrow bug, it frankly pisses me off, all these pubby newbs going for the new so called "bowazon" of 1.10. Not that it's true of course of everyone.

Another thing that is irritating is those damned "rate my necro" threads, as well as the people that say something like, "oh its not in the stickies" when it actually is.

I think your going to get this whichever class forum u going around here. If the stickes had flashing neon lights & sounds it would still probably not get noticed. Most players going for the quick fix the fastest way of winning trend these days on bnet

[soulesschild]

hey DK posts again! WOOT, how about we start a thing like what happened with Nali ;)

@kyo, maybe we should have like it popup on their screens whenever they type something along the lines of rate me or etc etc :D

[Ash Housewares]

they don't use the search function either, I would go grab my search FAQ but it was so rampant with spelling errors I fear it would be impossible to find with the search function :uhhuh: plus it's an absolute abomination

[Kyo]

hey DK posts again! WOOT, how about we start a thing like what happened with Nali ;)

@kyo, maybe we should have like it popup on their screens whenever they type something along the lines of rate me or etc etc :D

I think withtout something short of running up and slappin them in the face or the Full screen monitor immediately goes to close up to the stickes i dun think nothing short will work.

You would have thought if the same kind of general rules would apply in virtually most public forums you go into regardless, it would have been noticed and even applied to here?

[Dark Knight]

hey DK posts again! WOOT, how about we start a thing like what happened with Nali ;)
:scratch:

What thing happened with nali o_O

[Ash Housewares]

:scratch:

What thing happened with nali o_O

he got replaced with a machine, or a migrant laborer, I forget which, but they downsized him

[soulesschild]

go look at his avatar if its still there :D

[Hypnectic]

I think there are too many builds and gear set-up posts here.
Not every posted "build" on here is going to be liked. Or seem worthwhile to build a character under someone else's skill allocation or Gear set-up.

They all look the same with some minor differences. Of course there are a few stellar character designs that I've seen. But those aren't the issue, it's the weak builds that piss me off. I don't see why some of these threads arent ripped to pieces. Not every build should be complemented just because it's P.C. to be polite over the internet. I say if a build is horrible tell the poster. Giving bad advice to newbs who come in here and ask about marrow, trangs cast rate, etc. will read the build then make a bad character based on a bad build-post. Some criticism is definitely need. If you think I'm wrong here tell me.

And those dang people who just come and post their gear... :grrr:

Other than that these Necromancer forums/threads have been decent except for a few feuds that seem like a fly buzzing in your ear. But thats always expected.
Hyp
:stoned:

[Kyo]

I was talking to G of late and this was mentioned. There seems to be a trend of builds for most classes, getting rattled out like a production line with slight variations or specific equip and here a new build. Some surprisingly good and others are questionable but everyone is entitled for their say. I am sure we can rely on the mods to sticky stuff appropriately so we are in safe hands.

[SynthetiCyclone]

Same thing happened to the paladin forum.
I think its because of the influx of new people wanting to try out the overpowered classes ignoring the rules and then posting one of the "IS MY NECRO GUD!!11???1" topics 10 of which have already been posted in the last 3 days.
This makes people angry.

[Kyo]

That paladin to be fair ain't like most classes as it has a lot of very do-able variations. At one point i was worried that their was going to be so many variation of the same build in the necro class until i realised they were just necro names of all variety of builds just going out of control :lol:


ie Skelemancer, Mojomancer, Mercamancer, theonethatwaspowerfulandownsallmancer, etc etc u get the idea

[Ash Housewares]

the paly forum was always pretty nasty

remember zealots?

*shudder*

BM BM!!! ZEAL ONLY J00 NUB!!!

[EuroJamie]

That's odd... I always thought of Christopher Walken whenever I saw the Necro graphic

I was thinking more in terms of mentality - ie the wee guy with the bad attitude.

Necros kind of put me in mind of David Carradine in Kill Bill...

[Angst]

The wee guy with the bad attitude?

Does that make us the fetish or the soul killer of the diablo monster world? :)

Angst.

[Patsy]

Fellow Necromancers,

Yes, I too have noticed a general... 'sturm und drang' happening on the Necromancer forum, and yes, it is based on builds and the 'defense' of one or another.

I try to stay the heck out of such flame-fests and only comment on *facts*. But if I see another one of those 'please give your opinion of my Necromancer build' and 'what is the benefits of Marrowwalks' threads...

:mad: :rant:

I do tend to lose my :cool: , and for that I apologize.

-Patsy
"And he piled upon the whale's white hump, the sum of all the rage and hate felt by his whole race. If his chest had been a cannon, he would have shot his heart upon it." (http://www.redwhiteblueredwhiteblueredwhiteblue.com)

[Ash Housewares]

I find the loss of colored text has also deprived us in that we can no longer scream

RED PANTS!!!!

in giant red letters, this served to let off alot of steam

[rickcarson]

The search functions have been working much better for me than they used to be, I kind of got out of the habit of even trying to search because it was pointless.

I don't mind the endless Marrowalk questions. The endless 'omg - you suggested using something other than Skeletons... kill the heretic!' does grate a bit. If I see a thread I don't like, I just walk away from it.

But the large number of threads, plus the inherent nature of the way threads bubble to the top don't make for the ideal love-fest intellectual environment.

Lets say that you post a brilliant guide, that summarises succinctly everything you ever need to know about... umm... lets say Poison Dagger. Inevitably one of two things will happen:


Everything to be said will be said... and the post will slip into oblivion.
It will degrade into an opinion fest, then a flame fest... and *then* the post will slip into oblivion


There's little or no quality control - and thats a big part of the problem. Not that that would be easy either - do you rate threads, or posts within threads, or posters? I'd happily give Mad Mantis top marks for everything, but just about everyone else has been a little psycho at one point or another. (And maybe *that* is the 'killer app' of the Necro forum - to blow off steam???)

And I think the limited number of stickies, and the seemingly random way that DK chooses things to sticky contribute to the problem. I *still* can't believe that Gvandales excellent Skelimancers Bible isn't stickied.

Then there's the 'credit' issue. If someone slaps a funky name on something, and gives a short skill list they expect to be credited with it forever afterwards.

take the Jailer 'guide' for instance. When I opened this up I was like... oh... interesting! I don't use Corpse Explosion and I recognise that as a major weakness in my playing style, so I initially approached it with anticipation. There was even a brief section on tactics and so forth, which looked good... but was a bit skimpy. Also, some of the numbers/skill recommendations didn't sound right. I'd just gotten into Hell with a similar character, and even with one skill point the Bone Prison was by far my toughest minion. Of course you can increase the skill to make it cheaper to spam, but you can also buy mana pots from vendors... so at every level I'd gone up I'd considered spending points on BP, and decided against it. So the recommendation in that guide to put lots of points into it seemed... odd... to me.

But then I got to the variants section... I quite like LoM so when I saw them in there I thought 'excellent, someone else also doing this!'. But even a quick glance at it told me that something was not right... the more I looked at it, the more convinced I became that as outlined in the guide it was completely unworkable.

Now rather than write 'lol what a n00b!' I thought to myself, well, there's some good stuff here, lets see if I can ask some questions that will extract the good stuff, eg what would you do with your skill points at level 70, why didn't you pick the AI curses, what about Revives, etc.

And *wham* before I know it, I'm slap in the middle of a flamewar... and I'm trying *really hard* not to give in to the temptation to call the other guy an idiot and tell him he doesn't have any idea what he's talking about.

I mean, sometimes its good to say 'hey, what would happen if you combined X, Y and Z?' and you'd expect to generate some discussion, maybe hear from some other people that tried that previously, or tried something similar, or who have gear suggestions that you might not have thought of. And thats cool. But to run around posting 'guides' when you haven't got any experience in that thing... thats... kind of annoying.

In Enormous contrast to this... we have the Mercmancer thread, which I consider to be an original idea, and I just learned something about the interaction of Clay Golem & Golem Mastery (!!!) that challenged the 'group think' I'd been subscribing to. It is everything I hoped that the Jailer thread would have been...

...and yet... even then, you *still* get some complete nob (one o, not two)
pop in and crap all over it:


Originally Posted by italianfoot
yeah just stf* and dont ****i*** say stupid threads :rant:


Somebody slap that man!

[rickcarson]

I find the loss of colored text has also deprived us in that we can no longer scream

RED PANTS!!!!

in giant red letters, this served to let off alot of steam

Oh, I wondered about that. I thought some of the guides still had colourised section headings??

<font color=ccacca>What about HTML tags?</font>

[Ash Housewares]

there have been some "guides" that were just insulting to those of us that have written guides in that they were so... gosh... um... bad? untested? vague? plagurized?

I didn't even start my guide until I had beated hell and killed diablo clone, and I hate guides that give you a build that will take you all the way to act3 nightmare, it just doesn't cut it, you need to finish, grrrrr

[rickcarson]

there have been some "guides" that were just insulting to those of us that have written guides in that they were so... gosh... um... bad? untested? vague? plagurized?

I didn't even start my guide until I had beated hell and killed diablo clone, and I hate guides that give you a build that will take you all the way to act3 nightmare, it just doesn't cut it, you need to finish, grrrrr

Its hard to write a good guide. Heck, most people can't even write a good essay, I used to write a fair bit (was even published regularly at one stage), but the format of a guide is a difficult one, and the old writing skills are rusty.

One of the problems is that I think people don't really read long posts, so you do some kind of 5000 word treatise, and you get feedback like 'you rox' or 'way to go' or 'lol you noob'... its not exactly the high point in editorial history...

I've been looking around for a good guide to use as the basis - copy the format, outline etc. I like the Fishymancer one, very nicely laid out etc. It even has a good little disclaimer: about how if it doesn't mention a skill then its not because that skill is bad, just that its not used in the build etc.

I want to lift out that disclaimer and copy it mercilessly. However, I also want to use something like this : "If I don't mention a skill its because it sux"... but I suspect the humour of the parody would be completely lost on certain people.

Problem with something like the Fishymancer guide is that its *too good*. It has become so influential that anytime you want to do something even slightly different you get people jumping all over you going "lol, use fishy nooblar!".

So then you spend the whole time justifying why you're not using some other build, instead of just getting to the high points of the one you really want to talk about. Another example would be the Meteorb - the group decrees that that is the ultimate, and viola! Creativity instantly stifled.

Back on topic: another reason why vets might be grumpier than elsewhere, is that it took a special kind of 'persistence' (read: sheer bloody mindedness) to be a Necro advocate before 1.10. Its a natural winnowing process, only the ornery survive :D

[Mad Mantis]

But those aren't the issue, it's the weak builds that piss me off.

Are you refereeing to intentionally underpowered variant builds, or just builds that have a very bad skill description? There is a difference so they both need to be treated differently.




One of the problems is that I think people don't really read long posts

You keep finding new words that my high school English didn’t cover. :drool:

And most guides tend to become multiple long posts. You can't outline a build, the gear and a solid tactic in 1000 words. I don't mind reading a long post, chances are that I will learn something or get a new idea, but why people can't simply open a guide and use Ctrl+F to get to the "important" sections beats me.

[gvandale]

i basically blame the influx of many newcomers. the last time i posted was to 2 posters under 50 posts each who said this:

*waits for g to flame*

that was the response they were giving to a good thread. so i came in and simply settled it without flamin.

i put down the flamethrower.

g

[Asheron]

I blame it on the boner inflation.. uhm wait that didn't sound right. O_o


EDIT: soul is always RAGED

[gjcraig]

i basically blame the influx of many newcomers. the last time i posted was to 2 posters under 50 posts each who said this
See here is one of the main problems - You have people who have been here a long time that sometimes don't respect a person because they have under 50 or so posts even if they have really good knowlege . Then you have some new guys on here that are noobs that have no idea how knowlegeable some of the older posters are and don't believe them when they say something . If you don't believe someone test what they are saying in the game . If someone won't listen to you let it go - You know your right . Christoper Columbus knew the world was round - Did he spend his whole life arguing about it ? No he sailed it .


BTW - I need to practice what I preach sometimes :lol:

[soulesschild]

pffhftttttt ash, not always raged....just...testy! ROARRRR

well craig, its not that we dont respect them, its that we have those stickies up top for a reason, also, there was one time that there was 3-4 Marrowwalk threads on the front page...you'd think that people would learn to READ before making the same thread over and over, therefore inciting the rage of vets who are just fed up with the same posts over and over.

[gjcraig]

Yeah I understand the "Vets" would like the board all nice and clean and in order and all but come on there are so many noobs that just started playing Necro's for the marrowwalk since 1.10 its staggering - Just like Hammerdins , Wind Druids , Fireball sorces . Anyways the point is all these noobs come here for info and don't want to "read" some sticky they want to talk about their new found toy the Marrowbonemancer . Seriously I understand them and I understand the vets but the vets don't understand the noobs and vice versa . Hense the flamewars and hostile state of the forum . Everyone just needs to imagine themselves in the other guys perspective :idea:

[soulesschild]

Yeah I understand the "Vets" would like the board all nice and clean and in order and all but come on there are so many noobs that just started playing Necro's for the marrowwalk since 1.10 its staggering - Just like Hammerdins , Wind Druids , Fireball sorces . Anyways the point is all these noobs come here for info and don't want to "read" some sticky they want to talk about their new found toy the Marrowbonemancer . Seriously I understand them and I understand the vets but the vets don't understand the noobs and vice versa . Hense the flamewars and hostile state of the forum . Everyone just needs to imagine themselves in the other guys perspective :idea:

i can understand the stickies part, but when you have 3-4 threads on the same page, come on, at least take a look at the other threads on the front page

[rickcarson]

i can understand the stickies part, but when you have 3-4 threads on the same page, come on, at least take a look at the other threads on the front page

We need a 'merge two threads without bumping' feature :D

[Necrochild313]

N
Necrochild313 has expressed hostility towards you

Reasons why:

1.You don't check the stickies
2.You don't check the stickies
3.You don't check the stickies

Even so I PK joo in a civil manner

I'm usually don't PK for not using search because IMO it iz teh suxxxzor, I generally get this:

We were unable to find what any topics you were searching for

These words were ommitted from the search: ALL, OF, THEM

[Slipin]

i basically blame the influx of many newcomers. the last time i posted was to 2 posters under 50 posts each who said this:


Originally Posted by newbidiot
*waits for g to flame*

I did that too O_O.


On the topic of noobyness about posting, I was able to lurk for a 1-2 years around the .08-.09 solely on the fact that when I searched a bit, I was able to find what I need for every question I ever had, I finally join when I was bored, as nothing goes better with beer then spam :).

[wickedWinter]

*casts Weaken*

[rickcarson]

Necrochild313 has expressed hostility towards you

[/code]

Ah... so is that how I make section headings???

Thanks!

[prg8@pitt.edu]

That's odd... I always thought of Christopher Walken whenever I saw the Necro graphic

A little late here, but I can't help myself:

Your necro needs more cowbell.

[Necrochild313]

Ah... so is that how I make section headings???

Thanks!

Your very, very welcome

[Ash Housewares]

can Christopher Walken be done in type? hmm, here goes nothing

II've got a fEEeveR! And the Onlee presCRIPtion, iS mOre cOWbelL!!