My mercmancer/MF mancer

[darnocpdx]

The Mercmancer/mf mancer

Summery:
This is a good cheap beginers necro. It doesn't rely upon alot of + gear and is suited for solo and group play. It is predominately one part mojo mancer and one part golemn mancer, and still has enough points for a decent amount of damage with the posion and bone line as well. It can also be tweeked to be perhaps one of the best MF (this is what I use this build for primarily, and you will have the highest useable mf value of any character in the game) you can easily and fairly cheaply get to 500+ with just p topaz and normal magic gear with +mf on them) characters in the game, considering that kills made by your merc will combine the mf of your merc and yourself it will allow you to have the highest useable mf of any other character while still killing at a reasonable rate. And this build can accomadate many diffrent play styles.

This build might even seem a bit weird for some with too many points in some skills. But this guy is made as a support character for your merc and if you are going for a hugh MF rateing like I am you don't get alot of room for + skills so many skills that you'd typically put one point in and use +skills to make more powerful must be bought to a decent level.

Personally since I mf with this build I like to keep a slows target by weapon in hand and then switch to a gul just before he dies. These items tend to be cheap and fairly easy to find and can give valuable extra attacks for your merc over the bosses.

First the stats:

Str enough to equipt the gear round 80 (97 for skulders) for most.
Dex - keep at base (unless you plan useing PD for your main damage spell or useing a bow).
Stamina- eveything that you can afford
Energy- 100+ everything that you can spare.

Typically since I use this build for MFing I pump 2 in str, 2 in vit and one in energy till I can wear 4 socket gothic plate (if you dont have any other mf characters.) Then I start putting 3 in vit and 2 in energy every level. Mostly you have alot of choices in the way that you deal damage so adjust acrodingly.

Gear:

It's quite hard to make a gear list here cause of the amount of choices you have. You can literally make your weapon of choice anything I've done it with bows, throwing weapons, and wands. For the case of MFing the best gear is widely known and can be found else where on-line in MFing topic threads. The only thing I will say is that Rhyme is the best shild for MFing, though it doesn't have the highest MF of other shields it is one of the only slots that you can cheaply have any plus skills and get some resistances (the biggest downfall of this build for MFing) + some mf.

Personally since I mf with this build I like to keep a slows target by weapon in hand and then switch to a gul or ali baba just before he dies. These items (the slow target items) tend to be cheap and fairly easy to find and can give valuable extra attacks to your merc over the bosses and meph.

The skills:

Summoning:

Becasue you want you merc to do most the killing gumby all the way, and for the same reason you don'twant any skellies. He not only will slow the targets, he's cheap to cast, and seems to taunt anything on screen near him. And if MFing you need someone to tank for you merc and more points making him stronger will make it easier for you and your merc.

10 clay Golemn - any more is wasted. good hp and 50% slow target a real life saver against bosses.
20 golmn mastery- the only skill you will max. But take your time. 5 point is norm 5 in nightmare is enough to get you through those difficulties.
summon resist 5-10 there is only a 10 resist all differnce between level 5 and 10 and it gets worse after that. I like 5 and try to find + golemn resists on items.

total points 35-40

Curses:

I know im gunna catch some slack for investing so hevily in this line, however if you are after the highest possible mf you don't get alot of + skill gear and points will have to invested here.

Amp 5
Dimvision 10
weaken 1
Iron maiden 1
Terror 1
Life tap 5
Decrept 5
5 lower resists

total points 33


Here is where you shine decent dim vision for making the mobs more managable. Liftap for the bosses and your merc.

Posion and bone:

This tree is totally rearanageable to your preferences. Mostly you'll want abilities that will one eat away at the enemys without killing them (nova is good for this). Or something like CE to clear out mob of monsters when things get a little tough.

Again I expect to get some slack for actualy puttingpoints into bone wall/prision but becasue you will eventually be wearing wartravelers for the mf the marrowwalk bug isn't used for the mfing.

Here is where the build takes off personally I like a little in CE, nova and Bone spear. Plus the obligtory bone armor synergised with bone wall or bone prison. Mine usually looks something like this:

Teeth 1
Bone armor 10
CE 5-20*
PD 1
PE 1
PN 5-20*
Bone spear 10
Bone armor 1
bonewall 1-10*
bone prison 1-10*

total points: well what ever is left that you afher the others you've only spent 68 and this is all gravy. Heck if you want totally ignore this line and buff either you curses or your goemn more even.

* your preference 1 point in one 20 in the other either nova or CE gets built up, same with choice between wall and prision. Or you can slightly boost both, your call. I like haveing a little nova and CE neither is quite as strong but they both have there purposes. If I truely had to choose one over the other I'd take nova in that it could be used to whittle away at bosses easier than CE.I typically will pick BW over Bp because BP doen't work too well for some of the bigger bosses. And bone wall can be use to seal off badies while you're running to the lower level of the catacombs.

However you can devate if like, going dagger is possible, BS is possible. Personally I like to diverisy and have posion, magic and the fire of CE that way you have an attack for 90% of the immunes out there. It is in this tree that you have the most flexability, so have fun with it.

Now for merc.

Now you have the choice between act 2 nm might merc. Good merc the might helps alot and keeps his damage up, but for me I prefer the act 5 barb. They can take hits and can weild the better mf gear like alibaba, IK set. Not only that they get bash which can give them more damage bonus than might as well as stun. Plus you can get one in act one and if you carry him over to hell the act one merc will be the toughest with the highest level abilities as well.

Which ever merc you chooce you should level them as soon as you get them. They are your killing machine and should always be one level behind you.

This is not a pvp build. So I wont even get into that. In group play you should be more than welcome, no skelles to lag everyone out, great curses. Hope the folks don't figure out that you're wear the mf gear or they'll follow you around.

How to play:

For general play you have all the curses you need to effectively run in normal questing mode. You might find it a little slow but it will work quite well. Also not much of an issue if mfing, cause most the norm monsters you will be running past (dim them off screen) on the way to say meph or baal.

In group play find another player to run at your flanks and keep the curses flowing at the edges of the screen.

Against bosses cast the clay golemn to the opposite side of the boss from your merc and cast life tap or if not needed decrept. Then hit with nova and bone spears. It's critical that you keep you golemn up, recast him just before he dies.

[rickcarson]

Cool! Something totally novel. And you got away from the Act 2 merc as well! Impressive! :worship:

Some minor points (for clarification):

You list Bone Armour twice, once with 10 points, once with 1.

Based on the rest of the build, I'd assume you meant 1 in Bone Armour, and 10 in Bone Spirit.

I personally would have slapped the 20 points into Gumby, instead of Golem Mastery. Each level of Gumby is itself a built in level of mastery anyway. But as you say, you're just dribbling points into it slowly over time.

Am I also correct that you didn't include Confusion or Attract?

Oh, and if you have time, it would be fantastic if you could describe how you use Bone Wall... thats one spell I've never gotten the hang of. Some tactical advice on that would be great, thanks!

[darnocpdx]

my bad

I put 10 in bone armor (but then I only play HC). You SC's could get away with 1 in it though.

Also I prefer Bone wall to prsion for the fact that I have an easier time trapping baddies with it. They can walk out of prisions if you don't cast enough fast enough. Also it makes a great barrier for say diablios fire ring attack. If you say have your gumby and merc on him and the wall up you can still cast or fire a bow at him but block that fire attack. And it's another couple seconds TP time should you need it in that he will attack it before he comes directly at you. It is also a great defence against many PK'ers giving BS's a target other than yourself and getting in the way of charging pallys, kickassisn's, throwers (thought they all but gone in 1.1), guided arrows, etc.

Also remember that with the barb merc you can get some cheap resistances with barb helm and the + natural restances. They can use barb equiptment, though Im not sure if they can use spells like battle orders or war cries. I usually give them passive skills like + weapon masteries of the weapon type they'll be useing, natural resiatance, and running speed etc. If they do infact use things like battle orders I can easily see them being the merc of choice for summoners even. And perhaps with that the abilitly to make IM more valuable a little later in the game.

Also my kid woke up so I couldn't quite finish the last post in which i went through varients and how this build works for many of the alt. necro charaters.

Melee mancers:

You wont find a better support for yourself than the beefed up gumby/barb merc. Get your merc and yourself a Banard's star (str round 150) up the Lower restance a little and run through hell like a hot knife in warm butter. Also helpful is gear that adds elemental damage get as much as possible. Beef up the resists for yourself and the mec and preaty much nothing will stop you. With the right gear you don't anything from poison bone for this other than the armors and mabey walls or prisions. Unless of course you go daggermancer.

Daggermancer:

Load up on the slow target and up Dimvision a little (str and dex about 110). Forget the bone spells and max the posion line. get yourself a decent dagger and you're good to go. Nice thing is that you golemn and merc are first targets of the big bosses before you are so rush in hit once, back off keep the golemn up and run back into it as needed. Like all dagger mancers you only need on posion scourse preferably with a long duration. (I like P emeralds). This is my favorite build.

Bowmancers

Just like the melee mancer I say load up on elemental damage gear, add a little knockback and up dim (or if you'd rather with a good peirce attack % confuse and attract do wonders also. and LR more. Perhaps throw in some BS for the elemental immuned. My second favorite build tied with melee mancers.

Artys (ie CE mancers)

Well you're barb merc will get that first kill fast for you, and with gumby (cast him in the middle of the mob of beasties) drawing them all into one place you're able to get by with less CE for the points. You can also decide to use PE in much the same way. For this as you're main killing I'd keep my amp and CE at the same radius (perhaps Amp a little bigger). Also consider useing attract then dumping gumpy on the attracted this will make a huge hord of badies in CE range.

Novamancer

You might balk but again your gumby will tank most the screen if you cast him in the right spot. You're barb merc can use some other elemental damage weapon for the posion immunes.

Bone necs- Well you got too many points into bone spells for this forget it and move one. Though you should still consider the barb merc. They are that powerful, if you treat them right.

Summoners- lol forget it you got your skellies and your happy standing round doing nothing.

I have for quite awhile shunned skelie's and summoner builds in favore of this type of build (I like to do more than walk around). I sounds weird but with only 2/3 of of he points spent for the basics you can preaty much do anything else you want after that. And best of all it's cheap, and fairly easy to play and most of all effective.

[Myrakh-2]

Do not put more than 1 point in bone armor, even in hardcore. Why? Put these points in wall or prison instead --- a point in bonearmor gives it 10 hp, a point in a synergy gives it 15 hp.. so the synergies ALWAYS win.

[darnocpdx]

True about the syngeries, however I like to pump BA at the begining of a build (ie pre level 12) when there is little worth investing in anyway. And at the beginging is when you'll need it the protection the most. Especially in HC. In SC you can save those points. However myself I only play off one account and keep certain items in invetory for starting characters up. i don't particuallry wanna start mfing norming to get back some of that low level gear I'd lose if I died pre, or shortly after level 12.

Also I just checked and Golemn mastery will add way more HP than just adding points in CG. So I still stand by maxing mastery over the golemn. Though you could max both as well as blood (+ 5% life per level (only 100% if maxed) and iron (+35 def( +700 def) for uber undestrucatble golemn.

[ash2ash]

Not saying this is the ideal setup for MF, but here's what my Ladder SC mf necro wears. I have found this guy to be nigh unstoppable except by those annoying gloam dudes:

Ptopaz Skullders (96 + 24 = 120%)
Ptopaz HCrest (50 + 24 = 74%)
Upped Goldwrap (30%)
Chancies (40%)
Tancreds Ammy (78%)
Tancreds Boots
Leorics
Pdiamond Homonculus

-switch-

Ali Baba w/mf jool (85%)
Rhyme (25%)

And I have around 180%MF from charms.

Total Personal MF: 522%, 632% on switch

My Merc wears:

Shaftstop
Ptopaz Ethereal HCrest (74%)
Ethereal Tomb Reaver (76%)

Total Personal + Merc MF: 672%, 782% on switch

Granted, it took me a while to get all these items, but none of the things I've listed here are (IMO) beyond the reach of a regular player except maybe the reaver (I got a 76%MF, 230%ED, 1os, 49% res, ethereal one for tals ammy + pul back when the ammy was worth a gul)

I think that it's prudent to build your character using AT LEAST a leorics since the +skills really do help you kill faster. I only switch to my ali baba for boss kills.

Neither me or my merc (nor my skellies for that matter) die easily and we kill lots of things really fast.

[darnocpdx]

If played well the plus skills aren't particularly needed for this build. I have built a number of necros that bash the walls of "box" and many times they have little or plus skills. The clay golemn in this build is your buffer. For example true non hybrid melee and bow mancers can do quite well with little to no plus skill items. For these builds get a six socketed weapon put 3 different types of P gems (saphs, topaz, and rubies) on it. Make sure each armor piece has elemental damage on it (all armor types have atleast one item with added elemental damage (except posion casue you got spells for it). Just get elemental armor, good golemn, and LR, max a posion line and these builds are ready to go. I have taken melee, bow, and throwmancers well into the 80's with this method of play in HC and I don't take rushes (execpt for sc to make a HC account). I know many are sceptical but really + skill items are over rated unless you are relying upon the weak summoning line for your build (that's right I said weak). The power of necro's is truely in the curses not the summons, it is the curses that stand the enemy still for those summons, the curses that slow and weaken the beasts, the curses that render even the immune open to attacks that they thought they were safe from. And guess what most if any Curses don't need to be maxed or buffed for them to be truely effective. There is a reason it is one of the few spell lines of any class without synergies, because they don't need them to be competitive and useful.

[GIR]

I'm curious as to why you put points into Energy, especially in Hardcore. On a personal level, I'd much rather use those points for extra Vitality, and spend a few gold on a Mana Potion if need be. I'm just curious as to your point of view on that.

[rickcarson]

I'm curious as to why you put points into Energy, especially in Hardcore. On a personal level, I'd much rather use those points for extra Vitality, and spend a few gold on a Mana Potion if need be. I'm just curious as to your point of view on that.

I find that *in practice* putting extra points into Energy improves the killing speed of most of my Necromancers.

Of course, *on paper* it looks like a silly thing to do. Something to also consider is the gear question. I've had some of my characters (other classes as well) swap out good rare rings or amulets for ones with 50+ mana. Notably my Zealots never seem to run out of mana if I can scrounge up a +50 mana ring... even to the point of being able to do away with mana leech entirely. I can't explain why that is... the numbers don't stack up, I just know it worked really well.

Again, *theoretically* spending points on energy is a bad thing. Of course, theroretically speaking, we all have Shakos and SoJs flying out of our butt, which (fortunately???) is not true. ;-/

[italianfoot]

yeah just stf* and dont ****i*** say stupid threads. :rant:

[rickcarson]

Also I just checked and Golemn mastery will add way more HP than just adding points in CG. So I still stand by maxing mastery over the golemn. Though you could max both as well as blood (+ 5% life per level (only 100% if maxed) and iron (+35 def( +700 def) for uber undestrucatble golemn.

Yes, and no.

I'm using Chippydips to play around with the numbers:

http://www.d2items.com/skills.php

If you have 10 in Golem, and 10 in Golem Mastery, (with +5 to summoning) then 1 more in Golem gives 6875, whereas putting that extra point in Mastery only gives 6814.

So Golem looks like the better bet. But wait, lets consider if we only had 1 in Mastery (don't forget the +5 will increase that) and 20 in Golem. And we get.... a mere 5687 ... over 1000 hitpoints *behind* the even mix that you originally proposed!

Just playing around with it for a bit... it looks like if you let the Golem get more than 3-4 points ahead, then you are better off putting the points in Mastery till it catches up. What those numbers are may depend also on the level of +skills.

So the trade off is that you gain 20% more hitpoints (5000->6000), but the level 20 Golem has 10% greater slow (60%->66%).

To get the most hitpoints with 30 points spent (and +5 from skills) you should spend 16 on CG, and 14 on Mastery. 17 on CG and 13 on Mastery is very close to that as well (less than 1% difference).

With no +skills 17 in Golem, 13 in Mastery (6534) is fractionally better than 16 in Golem, 14 in Mastery (6531). Any other combination of 30 points is worse than either of them.

So your recommendation to put 10 points in Golem mastery by the end of Nightmare was a good one! Well spotted :D

[rickcarson]

yeah just stf* and dont ****i*** say stupid threads. :rant:

???

This is a great thread!!! WTF are you talking about???

:scratch:

[darnocpdx]

I would agree with CG instead of GM if you only planed on staying in norm mode.

Becuse the base hit points scale in nm and hell, the % to life of GM will pay off bigger in the long run.

[darnocpdx]

I also just realised I didn't answer the energy question.

Well basically cause the rate of HP for points to vit aren't very good for mancers. you get 2 HP for evey point in vit so (you start at 45 hp) so at level 12 if you put every point in vit you would have 165 hp 12*5*2+45, by simply taking a 3 socket helm (mask has the lowest str.) and 3 socket armor and rubied them you'd have 189 HP (24*6+45). At level 18 with stats you'd have 225, with socketed P rubys 311. And lets face it name one piece of armor or helm (ok tarnhelm) that you couldn't live with out till level for 18 levels of being able to ignore a boosting a stat. (Actually the P ruby set up with keep up HP for a mancer that dumped each and every point in vit till level 26 or so.

Now Im not suggesting that you should forgo stamina with a nec but do realise that sometimes it is more effecient to get the HP elsewhere.

Also for this build if you are going for mfing you will be casting you golemn alot and spamming curses and you'll need some energy to do so. On my Mf characters I'd rather have more MF than say mana regen or even +mana. After why MF half ***? especially with a build like this that once you get to NM meph runs you should have some top notch MF gear for you and your merc and if played right and advanced slowly through the game you can easily get to 800-1000 mf between yourself and the merc. Heck with 4 socket armor and 3 socket helms with P topaz for you and your merc you'd have a combined MF of 336 if that was the only MF you used, (which incidently is what I'd recomend starting with if you don't already mf ( start as early as possible gull dagger is an Ilvl 6) the first one I ever saw drop was in the cold plains in norm.)

Or say you use this as a base for a melee mancer. You might want to use some inventory slots for +hp gear. A plus 100 Hp ring for example is worth 50 points to vit (or 10 levels of stats) and with a melee mancer needing to get str to 150+ for the good gear you gotta move points from stamina to str. Likewise for bow mancer or throwmancer with dex. Or even an arty who will be spamming CE all over the place 45+ points a shot aint cheap, not including the amp and perhaps another curse or two to get that first corpse.

Remeber this isn't your typical walk around the level and let eveyone else do the work kinda build while I spam Amp for pennies worth of mana. This is a busy build if you're use to playing sumoners. This aint even the lazy cast BS at opponents off screen. This is all preaty in your face and you'll need to act quick to do it safely in some area's. And for eample hell not once have I gotten there with a mf haracter cand muled the mf gear and replaced it with decent gear for leveling and advancing through hell. Some of you might not mind being rushed but I dont like it ( though my mfs will usually skip the ancients) all the interesting stuff happens in the normal course of the game not fight the same mob with the same attacks over and over again.

Also nothing is worse than being a multiplayer game with other thirsty characters and you all fight over dirnks like they were SoJ's or something. I dont like to rely on drinking too much, cause at some point there wont be any when you need it the most. God forbid you should be out of TP's then too.

[Mad Mantis]

I'm using Chippydips to play around with the numbers

You aren't supposed to link to that site because it sells items. Just tell people to Google for Chippydip.

[rickcarson]

You aren't supposed to link to that site because it sells items. Just tell people to Google for Chippydip.

Eh. I just went to google, typed in diablo skill calculator (or something similar) and hit the 'I feel lucky' button.

That took me to a black page which was empty, except for a thing about the 1.10 calculator now on a different page, and I hit that link, and viola, the skill calculator.

No annoying adds, no 'please buy my 1337 itams so mey childrun dun starve'.

[rickcarson]

I would agree with CG instead of GM if you only planed on staying in norm mode.

Becuse the base hit points scale in nm and hell, the % to life of GM will pay off bigger in the long run.

the bonus hit points from extra levels of Clay Golem look like they scale as well.

Which was why I thought why would you ever bother with Golem mastery?

After all, the mastery gives about 20%, whereas extra points in the skill give a whopping 35% (!!!)

In hell, each extra level of Clay Golem increases the base HP by 96!!!

If you already had 10 points in Mastery, there would be a multiplier of 200% applied to that increase, so each point of Clay Golem would add 288 hit points.

The more points you have in Mastery, the more each point in Clay Golem is worth (and vice versa of course), which is why the 16-14 split (or 17-13 split) was the best use of your 30 skill points.

Or, another way of looking at it, is that you might be able to get the same hp in golem, with fewer skill points, simply by keeping them close to each other, with the Golem skill out in front by 2-4 points.

[rickcarson]

How is your killing speed?

If I read your description of play correctly, one of the aims of the build is to Dim Vision the monsters, so you can safely run past them to get to the bosses (where your MF does the best).

Is that right? What about questing? Does it play fairly slowly in the rest of the game?

If you are mainly a boss killer, how important are resists and crushing blow?

I ask this, because I've got a Lightning/Zealer doing NM Baal runs, and he has an Act 5 merc (with whatever the sword is that shoots Frozen Orbs - more for the pretty special effects than anything else). But the Merc (even with max resists) get absolutely chewed up and spat out by Gloams and Hydras (from the third wave of Baal's minions)) How do you find them as a nec? Obviously DV is going to help against both of those monster types, are there other situations where you find yourself raising the Merc a lot?)

What about Oblivion the Knights in the Worldstone Keep?

Would you do Diablo and the Chaos Sanctuary as a MF run?

If so, how?

[darnocpdx]

Lifetap lifetap lifetap....Life tap returns 50% of the damage your merc will casue on a beasty. And suprisingly it works quite well on bosses.

Also I have been known to give the mercs +damage/ar vs. demons weapons or even jewels socketed into say Ali Baba's. Also most 99.999% of the mobs choose to fight Clay Golmn over the merc. As long as clay golemn is up your merc is preaty safe...It's for this reason that I build up the golemn so much. Most builds even those that use golmns alot tend not to build to the same level as this build does.

Also there are times that I have rezed the merc. Also other than bosses CE and nova do wonders in releaving the preasure from the merc and golemn. But the goal with this build is to keep the Golemn up and recast him before he dies. Also with the slow of the golemn, the slow from my main weapon (which I don't typically use and it's gotta be at least 50% I prefer General what's his faces Tan-do, and decrpt I can slow down a boss by 150-200% on average (sacfice enough mf gear for other armors and weapons tha can slow and you can slow them by twice that (your self and a merc with kelpie snares 150%,golemn 50+%, decrept (50%) blackhorns face on merc and yourself another 40%, cleglaws gloves 25% (or is it still huge like 1.09) for a total of 315% slow down . or in other words they will only hit me or my merc once for ever four times (with just decrept, gumby, and my Tan-do )they hit you without all the slow gear.

Im also not shy about scaleing back my mercs MF gear if need be. He could at times be wearing skulers with resist jewels a 3 socket assult helm with + natural resistance mod, and perhaps sword mastery. a six socket one hander with a variety of leech jewels, P skulls, +damage. who knows. By letting my merc do all the work it will typically open up all my slots to mf other than my switch. As my merc gets more comfortable (higher levels) you can adjust his gear accordingly.

As for hydra's alot of times with my shield along with my tan-do I typicaly have a necro head with + some skils (mostly golemn boosts for a pre buff)l with 2 sockets and p rubies in it. I also tend to hord light and fire resist charms ( i like to mf the travical before headin to meph). If it seems to be too much for my merc. I'll stand in the middle of the hydra's Im typically preaty close to max resists on those two. And even if not they dont last so long that I can't keep my health up with drinks while standing there.

Also despite level I tend to prefer NM meph runs with a couple other stops. They are fast and you can get enough good stuff from him to trade up for the better stuff. Also NM andy is your best bet for sojs. Really if you look at the really high end stuff its more about rune words anyway. And it here where the golemn really shines in enclosed spaces. The tower, the pit are a breeze just keep casting the golemn ahead of you or in rooms before you enter.

Personally in MFing you will get better results with faster kills even if that means sacrificing M lvl to do so in hell I wouldn't mf on diablio or baal (nm sure) but not hell it would simply take to long. I mean for any level in the time you'd take and find say baal and get through his minons (if you survive the lag) you could have easily done Shienk the overseer and the other named just above the Wp. The travical, meph (the entrance is usually to the left of the tp) and then halfway to nearly complete on a pit run or the tower for the countess for some runes. To me the time and lag factor for both diablio and Baal aren't worth it considering 90+% of the time they're gunna drop stuff you coulda go in NM anyway.

But they would be possible as long as you adjusted your gear. The nice thing about MFing is that it's easier to antisipate what lays ahead, so you can adjust your skills and gear accordingly.

Though for example Baal if you made PE your main poision skill and kept it up in conjunction with CE and amp you could proablably tear through the minions preaty quick. Especially if you cast a bunch of PE's just before the last group member dies per group. PE does sick damage with synergies (venom rune word for some nice nova synergys.) And again with individual bosses just make sure the clay golemn stays up and your fine.

[darnocpdx]

And I forgot for the worldstone keep.. Dim works wonders. If the O knights don't see ya they can't curse ya, and individually they aren't that strong with out the curses. Confuse should (would??) work really well here as well. Your merc in full mf gear will tear through dimmed Oblioin knights. They don't melee for anything and from my experiences with dimming them they seem to only curse when they're not in melee range. But that's not necessarily fact, just my observation.

And diablio is a puppy if CG is up and you got good FR and magic damage redux gear even set reduxs will do wonders like crafted saftey set items.

OR direct form Aerates summit:
Tips and Other Additional Information
Full Lightning and Fire Resistance will help a lot against Diablo. With high Physical Damage Reduction and Fire/Lightning Absorption, Diablo will end up healing you over time instead of damaging you.

The Red Lightning
Hose deals half physical, half lightning damage. Full Lightning
Resistance and Damage Reduction/a high Block Rate may allow you
to survive this attack.



You cannot steal Life or Mana from Diablo. (***my note*** except with lifetap)

For Diablio keep you Golemn cast on the opposite side of your merc and yourself. As long as you recast him before he dies you'll never get the lightning aimed at you. And though I haven't done this in 1.10 in 1.09 bone wall would block the fire ring. My bowmancer would solo him doing this. which if it still does would be a great tactic for him with bone spears and/or bone spirits.

[Mad Mantis]

If the O knights don't see ya they can't curse ya, and individually they aren't that strong with out the curses.

You used an AI curse on an OK?

[darnocpdx]

I dim just about everything that moves and that which it will stick to, it's what I like about decrepts lack of range is that after I have dimmed a group you can cast decrept without waking the whole group (takes some practice to get really good at this by casting so the beast you want decrepted is the only one that gets it). Also at higher levels Dim is great casue of it's radius at level 12 + you can dim almost the whole next screen your heading towards by casting it on the edge of your screen. And with the gloams same thing they stand still and remain visible when you dim them. Though they can be a little tricker than OK's casue they can stack up on top of each other and when you go to decrpet them out you can end up undimming a whole herd of them. Doesn't happen offten but occasionally.

Other things dim works wonders on are the fetishes, the doggie things in Act II, and most casters. They litterially just stand still, yeah ya don't get the +damage with it on, but Most mobs when taken on an individual basis go down suprising fast when dimmed. Also I believe that dim works on other players minions as well in PvP, honestly I don't play much PvP to say for sure.

I haven't played much with confuse in 1.10 but when I have it seems to work alot better than it use to.

[Mad Mantis]

Other things dim works wonders on are the fetishes, the doggie things in Act II, and most casters.

I know that DV can be very helpful, my guide has a really big section on it, it is just that OK’s, MoD’s and Champions aren’t affected by AI curses.

[prion]

Personally since I mf with this build I like to keep a slows target by weapon in hand and then switch to a gul just before he dies. These items tend to be cheap and fairly easy to find and can give valuable extra attacks for your merc over the bosses.
this exact paragraph appears twice near the top of your guide.

[darnocpdx]

I know uniques and champs are uneffected by AI curses, but that doesn't mean AI curses can't be used against them. Confused normal beasts will attack the champs and uniques. Throw lifetap on the on the champs+ and confuse the rest. I have no real way of knowing if the confused beasts gain the benifit of LT but if they do they will easily last long enough to finish off the champ+ beast, and honestly confuse is a funny spell it doesn't keep everything from attacking you. So you don't always get the luxury of watching for things like this.

In the case of confuse with O. knights they aren't unques or champs, and confuse on them could really be helpfull with thier range. They could if you confuse them at the edge of your screen and then they could end up attacking beasts two screens away from you.

And really usually (not always mind you) the biggest problem I have with uniques and champs aren't so much them as the fact tat they usually come with a decent size group of non specials. Dim confuse and attract can help controll that mob while you and your merc focus on the champs.

And yeah after posting it I noticed the double post of the one paragraph. The whole thing for the most part is composed of notebook notes and thoughs I've accumulated for quite awhile. Most of it was cut/pasted to gether rather quickly.

[Mad Mantis]

In the case of confuse with O. knights they aren't unques or champs, and confuse on them could really be helpfull with thier range.

Yeah, but besides Champs and Uniques there are two monster types that can't be influenced by AI curses. Those two are the OK and the MoD. That is why I found it odd that you mentioned the use of an AI curse against OK's.

[rickcarson]

Yeah, but besides Champs and Uniques there are two monster types that can't be influenced by AI curses. Those two are the OK and the MoD. That is why I found it odd that you mentioned the use of an AI curse against OK's.

Oblivion Knights will target confused monsters. They will, for instance, cast curses on them.

Since ObKs tend to hang back, the confused monsters will probably be between the ObKs and your minions, so will also be targeted as a matter of priority.

The bad news, is that when the monsters get cursed, they stop being confused. The good news, is that they now have some other curse on them. :D The bad news is that there is so much going on when that happens, that it is hard to know what is happening!

Same thing happens with Succubi - you get them into a fight with each other and suddenly they curse each other then make up. (Like some kind of bad sitcom).

Hey... hold the phone! Mad Mantis has a guide! Where is it? (Goes to beat some sense out of forum search tool)

[Mad Mantis]

Oblivion Knights will target confused monsters. They will, for instance, cast curses on them.

It appears that I was confused. I thought that he wanted to use DV on an OK. But he was referring to the fact that the OK now treats a cursed monster as an enemy. That will work.




Hey... hold the phone! Mad Mantis has a guide! Where is it? (Goes to beat some sense out of forum search tool)

Meleemancer Guide - Preliminary version (http://www.rpgforums.net/showthread.php?t=214163)

[rickcarson]

Meleemancer Guide - Preliminary version (http://www.rpgforums.net/showthread.php?t=214163)[/QUOTE]

Yah, thnx, I found the sticky, didn't even need to use the dreaded search function :D

Just reading through it... and I can't quite figure out why having a huge mob (from Attract) would be a problem...?? you have crowd control out the wazoo (as it were). Bone Prison, Terror, Confusion, Dim Vision.

Is it because you need to get up close and personal? I could imagine spamming the screen with BP might be a problem if it stops you from running away :D D'oh!

I found a Spineripper a couple of months back, and its been sitting there waiting for a Necro to claim it. Problem is, the damage looks kind of low (high if there were some combat skills to boost it, but with no +ED from skills, all damage is gonna look weak).

----

Anyways, I'm wondering if Terror works on the Oblivion Knights? Or is it counted as an AI curse?

[rickcarson]

I'm giving this one a go.

I didn't put points into Bone Armour to start with (even though I'm Hardcore). Instead I've pumped:

Amplify Damage (lvl 1 radius is too small to be useful)
When lvl 6 rolled around I switched over to Clay Golem
Then at lvl 12 one point into Golem Mastery.

So... Amp 4, Gumby 6, GM 1, Poison Dagger 1.

To save myself the problem of not having Bone Armour, I took a page out of the Amazon book, and from early levels picked up a Javelin and just started Amping and Chucking.

If I was going to have twinked him, I'd have put on the wand from the Death's set, with +1 skills and +8 minimum damage, and then I would have put 1 point into Bone Armour, because I would have been meleeing a lot more.

At 330 hp I figure Gumby can sit tight for a while.

Future skill point plan:
Bone Armour (13)
Bone Wall (14)
Teeth (15)
CE (16)
Weaken (17)
Terror (18)
Iron Maiden (19)
Life Tap (20)
Dim Vision (21)
Poison Explosion (22)
Bone Spear(23)?

... ie, pick up the prerequisites for Poison Nova, and round out the curses.

Just looking at it, that looks a bit weak to be taking on anything past Act 3... might have to rethink the strat, reread the guide...

I've got an idea for a 'Rak Runner', a character to make Rakinishu runs to try to get Gull Dagger. Not sure if its worth it, but it seems like that would be the way to get some decent MF on the char at this point. (Phear my leet 9% MF from a chippie!)

[darnocpdx]

Forget Dim go with Confusion!!! I can't stress it enough. My necro is only level 31 right now and I quested all the way to the WP just before the ancients. My merc (Defiance) has only died 3 times since Durry (IM in Chaos, Frenzied Demon Lord in Chaos, and against Diablio (where I let him stay dead till end of firhgt and I finished him with IM and CG.) I finished soloing act IV by dinging to 27 on Diablos death. And remember I have no offensive spells at all other than a level 3 Corpse Explosion (2 of those points were put there after entering act 5) that I don't use terribly often.

Yeah I know this is only norm, but nothing comes at me, and those that do you simply take a couple steps back and they change targets. My merc kills without getting hit at till the last couple. I give him Life tap when he is in need though too (and he would've died more if I hadn't).

You can use confusion to either fight the beasts, or pass by them whlie they fight with each other. Confusion is always 13 points, at level 10 (with boosts its at 13 for me now, can't wait till I get it to 20+) it's takes up nearly the whole screen, cast it to the edges and those beasts that are giveing you problems from afar are tied up with others by the time you get to them. And at that point they're half dead anyway. If they are the type that cast curses, or just let them continue most the time they are still fighting a confused beast and if attacked by the confused they will defend themselves against those beasts.


Infact I kinda regret the 7 points I put in Dim now for the mojo (who at some point will probably turn MF once I get to NM act V) I could have put CE at the peek for me with those points (live and learn), or even gotten Nova or something.

If you haven't played with confusion try it with a small group (ie no skeles) very little comes after you, and for the most part when the confused start on a target they stay on it so your merc is safe most the time.

[rickcarson]

Infact I kinda regret the 7 points I put in Dim now for the mojo (who at some point will probably turn MF once I get to NM act V) I could have put CE at the peek for me with those points (live and learn), or even gotten Nova or something.

If you haven't played with confusion try it with a small group (ie no skeles) very little comes after you, and for the most part when the confused start on a target they stay on it so your merc is safe most the time.

I thought I might pick up one point in Confusion from items. Its good in normal and nightmare, but 'needs work' in Hell.

Right now I'm doing Rak runs.
Slapped some topaz in a helm 19%, Arctic armour and belt for 40%, Vidala's boots and ammy for 50%, 31% from rings.

Dunno if I should level all the way up to 18 (for the 4 sock Gothic) on Rak runs... the Gull *will* be mine. Muahahaha!

[Simbacca]

though it was already said it bears repeating, cudos on having a build with a non act2 merc :thumbsup:

you got me thinking, wonder if there is a build that could make an act 3 merc useful...:scratch:

maybe the necro has to be the tank himself, high lvl gumby, LR for act3 merc attacks...

or maybe BWs to tank, curse LR, act3 merc and mages, maybe even a fire golem too...

guess it depends on how powerful an act3 merc's attacks can get

[rickcarson]

you got me thinking, wonder if there is a build that could make an act 3 merc useful...:scratch:


They are my favourite merc. You can hire them at levels up to 19, and the cold one has excellent crowd control, much better than Holy Freeze Mercs *

And for extra style points, put them in a full set of Isenharts :D

maybe the necro has to be the tank himself, high lvl gumby, LR for act3 merc attacks...


I use them for crowd control mainly. If you have Gumby, no need for other tanks.

I think they do about the same damage as 1-2 Cold Mages, so not the sort of thing you go building a whole build around.


or maybe BWs to tank, curse LR, act3 merc and mages, maybe even a fire golem too...


The Ice one doesn't work well with mages, because he Freezes instead of Chills. If you take him and mages, you really have to have some other way of generating corpses.

If I'm using Mages therefore, I prefer an Act 1 Cold Rogue. You still get the occassional shattering, but its not the 95%+ that the Act 3 Merc gives in Hell.

Though I think a PNova/Mages build could kill enough things to ge the army rolling, and hence be able to use the Cold Iron Wolf.

guess it depends on how powerful an act3 merc's attacks can get

Well, they can kill in Hell. Not fast, but they can do it. My Act 2 mercs get butchered big time, which is why I say they suck. *

* This is assuming you don't have godly gear for your merc, I find that at high levels the act 2 mercs are far too suicidal for their own good. Just about everyone and every guide that goes on about how amazing they are assumes that you have massive amounts of DR gear, and ethereal death on a stick with a side order of leach too. Without the 'uber' gear, you want a merc that hangs back, either Act 1 ** or Act 3.

** The problem with the Act 1 mercs, is levelling them up, takes fricking ages. You could buy them in nm, but then their stats wouldn't be quite as good.

[Simbacca]

...The Ice one doesn't work well with mages, because he Freezes instead of Chills. If you take him and mages, you really have to have some other way of generating corpses...

well, i never said it had to be a Cold/Ice one, but good points anyway.

though my current character doesn't use an act 1 rogue, i do have a desire to use them ever since i read Sapphy's Rogue Merc Guide v1.0 (made back in v1.09). i don't know how viable the info is now in v1.10, but it had discussed how fire rogues are superior to cold rogues, and clever equipment ideas, such as:

...ELEMENTAL CROWD CONTROL:
Goldstrike Arch + Face of Horror + Spirit Shroud
This is the PERFECT setup for tankazons, spearazons, or any melee character with no really effective crowd control skill who has trouble with Physical Immunes. The Spirit Shroud gives constant Fire Arrows (great for PIs), Goldstrike is very fast and its Fist helps with undead crowds, but the cornerstone is the Face of Horror - this has a 50% chance of making an enemy run away. Annoying when used on your main character's weapon, but GREAT when used from afar by a rogue. Firing into mobs, this one REALLY thins the crowds out, and can save your life on many occasions. Giving my Amazon Swordsmistress's Rogue Wendy a Face of Horror made her a viable build, rather than just a crippled variant.
Socketing Options: No life leech, so an Amn in the GA is useful. Otherwise, Cold damage jewels are best to slow enemies as they run. You may want to get a 15% Resist All jewel with Cold Damage in there, as the Face only has 10% Resist all.

ELEMENTAL AREA EFFECT:
Kuko Shakaku + Blackhorn's Face + Duriel's Shell
This is what I use on my assassin. The main aspect of this is using the Kuko's high Pierce and Exploding Arrows mods to best effect: with a piercing area-of-effect (which uses the rogue's total fire damage to splash onto enemies), you can deliver the Prevent Healing and Slow Target effects from Blackhorns across many enemies, and deliver reasonable fire damage to enemies in a tight group. VERY useful for melee characters who lack fire damage (my assassin has big Physical/Poison, but not much else), and a great way of making every enemy in the level a little bit less effective (so much Slow and Prevent Heal is VERY handy). A very good all round build, and quite cheap. No +skills needed as the Kuko's normal attack is the expoding arrows. Resistances are good too, as Blackhorns will take care of your lightning worries and Duriel's does the rest.
Socketing Options: No life leech needed, as the exploding arrows cannot leech (although as a bonus, they always hit). Best options are a Shael for the Kuko to speed it up, and Cold Damage jewels in the armor to REALLY slow enemies. Also, Fire Damage jewels are very good, as their damage will be added into the Kuko's Exploding Splash damage...

i wonder if there is an updated version :scratch:

[darnocpdx]

My experiences with confuse are that the bigger the radius (ie the level) the more effective it is coupled with the fact that I am just a party of 3 (myself, merc, and gumby) the bigger the spell effect the better the ratio of beasts vs Allies as potential targets, and so I'm hardly getting hit at all anymore. The thing to keep in mind with confuse is that the more beasts confused the less they will attack you, in fact like I said earlier, cause I cast it to the edge of the screen , the beasts are fighting each other before they even see me or my group. Most the time my merc just walks down the line and kills without anyone of the beasts (confused or not (since those that aren't are defending themselves from those that are.) fighting or even trying to fight back.

With a level 10 confuse I was able to clear most the ACT4 areas just by walking the edges of the levels. Once all walked all the way around I think the most I got when i went to open the boxes inthe middle were 2 or 3 small groups. I'd Imigine with a level 20+ confusion you could practically clean out the levels really quick, especially since it goes through walls.

Now at 33 I've gone all the way to Baal, but didn't go after him (waiting till 40). None of the last round of minons are affected by confuse. Thats ok though my new Act 5 merc leeched his way through them quite nicely with his Shadowfang and Life Tap. (anyone got a better level 30 something sword for him??)

[rickcarson]

Now at 33 I've gone all the way to Baal, but didn't go after him (waiting till 40). None of the last round of minons are affected by confuse. Thats ok though my new Act 5 merc leeched his way through them quite nicely with his Shadowfang and Life Tap. (anyone got a better level 30 something sword for him??)

There's a sword with random levels of whirlwind and sword mastery. Whirlwind he wont use, but presumably the sword mastery is a good thing. It has a very high damage out of the swords he can use at that level, even though its a one hander.

I'm not sure how you beat Diablo???

[darnocpdx]

.

I'm not sure how you beat Diablo???

IM and CG...max fire resist, as long as you recast him the opposite side of D where you are standing you need only worry about the fire ring. Took 5-10 minutes but it works, took 6 mana refills 2 or partial rejuves and 3 0r 4 random health potions that were laying on the ground there.

Nice thing is when he does do a normal attack, he hits hard so the IM is fairly effective, also I was recasting my CG once CG was at about 1/2 life or less. You just gotta wait through a few magic attacks before he does it though.

[rickcarson]

Forget Dim go with Confusion!!! ... You can use confusion to either fight the beasts, or pass by them whlie they fight with each other. ... Infact I kinda regret the 7 points I put in Dim now for the mojo...


I'm finding Confusion not very good in Act 3 jungles. I wish I had a decent radius Dim Vision!

Problem is, the Flayers when you confuse them, have this rule which occassionally kicks in about not standing next to an enemy, so they rush up to the Golem, I confuse them, and then half the pack explode outwards in random direction, and about half of them will end up closer to me than the Golem, so I end up a pincushion.

I don't think any of my other curses (other than DV) are appropriate, maybe I need to slap down the Bone Walls?

[darnocpdx]

I found the flayers fairly easy, the blow gun ones were affected the least since they can shoot off screen so its harder to confuse them before they see you, but with my now level 15 confusion (with bonuses) Im expecting them to be less of a problem once I get there (just beat coutess in NM, so it'll be 20 plus by then.) However the shamans (inferno)and the melee flayers (charge and low hp) wipe themselves out very quicky with confuse, and as long as they (the melees) are dropping fast I don't mind the swatting of blow gun darts too much.

I should also note I now got the prereqs and one point in revives now too. I dont use the skeles, and will put no more points into that line of the summoning tree.

Im gunna start pumping Poison nova and corpse explosion to level 10, then max Poison Explosion (cuase after level 10 the synergies give you more damage than points in nova) all the while adding points to confuse, and bone wall as needed for my armor.

[darnocpdx]

More notes on confusion/mojo experiments-

Be very careful with confusion at high levels, I've never seen so many cows on screen at once (they weren't hitting me so it was ok) and also in the confusion acciendly killed the norm king (back to meph runs for my mule games).

Also I've had Meph meet me a number of times in one of the rooms that flanks his spawn point shortly after I have entered it, so it does a nice job of wakeing them all up.

Now at the end of act II NM I'm starting to see where it is losing effectiveness it still does a great job with crowd controll, the beasts don't really hurt each other that much (but then who cares that is what my merc and CE/Nova are for). This doesn't bother me though, being a HC character I prefer not getting hit and slow to fast and getting hit.

Attract will not override Confuse. I have also been experimenting with IM and attract and am liking the results thus far, very handy in the Arcane when my merc gets hung up, might very well pump them up a little too, perhaps my these two spells more.

As for my mercs weapon, I upgraded his shadowfang...I like it alot, leech life and cold damage helps him alot. it does a base max 80 damage now too, saving up for the runes for the next upgrade as well. Honestly there aren't many better swords for this guy out there. Also hopin to get him some nice leech armor/helm soon too from trade or drops.

[rickcarson]

Progress update?

@Mad Mantis: add to builds list?

[Mad Mantis]

Progress update?

@Mad Mantis: add to builds list?

This build I did find. I PM-ed darnocpdx about cleaning it up and reposting it, but he wasn't interested in it anymore.

I'll be happy to include it in the build list for reference if there is enough support for it.

[rickcarson]

Hmm... thats a shame. Digging back through all the old posts he had a lot of original builds and ideas.

I also saw a lot of older stuff that is being regurgitated again and again as new builds.

The two builds stickied at the moment are like this. Edge is really just a cheap version of Bramble, I'd dismissed the Thorns part of the half dozen or so different builds that mentioned Bramble, since I'd never seen it in action.

The other one stickied is even more similar to a bunch of other 'summoner only' builds.

And then you've got the standard build + interesting aura from gear options. At the time I remember thinking how innovative they all were. But now when I look at a Trang's build I just think 'oh, thats just build X with Trang's added'. Or that once you take away the poison dagger from the commandomancer its just an Overlord with some expensive high end gear.

Still, I think there's a lot of stuff still in there to 'discover', eg the various auras. I liked the Gardener with the Breath of the Dying triggering off Thorns, and I note that there is a slightly cheaper (?) new runeword which fires off lvl 20 Chain Lightning on a kill, and so forth.