CE necros still viable?

[Vigilante8]

My old necro in 1.09 was CE,iron golem and amp.I pretty much could take on anything.(of course i used all my curses minus terror)Is this build still good?

[EuroJamie]

My old necro in 1.09 was CE,iron golem and amp.I pretty much could take on anything.(of course i used all my curses minus terror)Is this build still good?

CE still rocks, although Iron Golem is not really viable any more. An extremely popular build is to combine a maxed out CE with 20 in Skeleton Mastery and 20 in Raise Skeleton and a few other bits and pieces. Using this with Amp Damage and an Act2 Might Merc is highly recommended.

Check this build out for some details (http://strategy.diabloii.net/news.php?id=509)

[Vigilante8]

CE still rocks, although Iron Golem is not really viable any more. An extremely popular build is to combine a maxed out CE with 20 in Skeleton Mastery and 20 in Raise Skeleton and a few other bits and pieces. Using this with Amp Damage and an Act2 Might Merc is highly recommended.

Check this build out for some details (http://strategy.diabloii.net/news.php?id=509)
What happend to Iron golem?

[Kyo]

It still viable in one sense or another. If u have access to high level equip u could summon a iron golum with good attributes.

Most go with Clay as he way more useful, cheap and affective for what u want him to do. Plus he slows mobs down. Combine this with decrep and u got yourself something that can handle almost anything.

[EuroJamie]

I didn't play pre-1.10, so someone else will probably be able to answer better then me, but the basic problem in 1.10 now is that none of the Golems simply don't do enough damage to make them effective killers.

Some people have had limited success with IG by making him out of Crushing Blow weapons, such as IK maul, etc. However, this leads on to the other major problem with IG: the prevalence of monsters casting Iron Maiden in 1.10. You could build an IG out of some uber-tastic runeword and have him kicking a$$ through 95% of the game, but as soon as he dishes out a couple of hits after being IM-cursed, all he's good for is recycling into toasters.

Most posters on these forums will tell you that Clay Golem is the Golem of choice, as his attack slows down enemies. This is particularly useful against bosses, especially when combine with Decrepify, as it's slow attribute stacks with Clay. Typically however, noone puts more than a point in CG and a point in Golem Mastery, as you'll never beef him up enough to be a good killer, and if he dies you can always recast him.

Another Golem of occasional use is Fire Golem, as some PvP Venomancers use his Fire Aura to take the last point of an adversary after they have been PNova'd. Again, here 1 point is sufficient.

[Kyo]

Do runeword weapons work with Iron G.

I was under the impression it didn't ? I could be mistaken like. :scratch:

[Mad Mantis]

Do runeword weapons work with Iron G.

As long as the Runeword is made in a metal item.

[EuroJamie]

I've never tried it myself, but I've heard of people making an IG out of Beast and getting the Fanaticism Aura for him and their skellies.

Very tasty, but there aint no way I'm using those kind of runes in that way - if I ever get them :)

[Myrakh-2]

What happend to Iron golem?

It rusted away into oblivion.

The whole story is a lot more complicated and involves the other ancient golems as well. First of all, the blood golem died, leaving some form of half-liquid mess. When the iron golem fell into this, he couldn't get out because he started to rust all over, finally dissolving into pure rust which got mixed into this half-liquid mess to create something that looks a lot like plain dirt. It was still too fluid, though, but when the dieing fire golem wandered around trying to figure out what happened to the world, and found this mess, he was wondering what this might be. He stayed around, and while his fires burned out the mess got dried up a bit, finally creating what we now know as the Clay Golem.

So it's really all about evolution. The old golems died when the world changed and they couldn't adapt, making room for their successor. Sometimes you will still see a lost ancient golem walking the earth, but their time has passed and many see them as myths.

[Kyo]

Myra - Are you a philosipher?

[EuroJamie]

His sad tale has me reaching for the tissue box.

Poor ole golems :hanky:

[ebyworx]

.09 was all about blood golem and iron maiden, the golem used to get the leech for iron maiden. a little amp damage when one or two cows went down, ce wash rinse repeat.

[rickcarson]

I've never tried it myself, but I've heard of people making an IG out of Beast and getting the Fanaticism Aura for him and their skellies.

Very tasty, but there aint no way I'm using those kind of runes in that way - if I ever get them :)

Steel (Tir El) is fairly cheap :)

[rickcarson]

.09 was all about blood golem and iron maiden, the golem used to get the leech for iron maiden. a little amp damage when one or two cows went down, ce wash rinse repeat.

Really??? I was pretty sure that the blood golem/iron maiden combo was 'considered suckful, due to not being a comb anymore' well before (and during) 1.09

[Vigilante8]

I didn't play pre-1.10, so someone else will probably be able to answer better then me, but the basic problem in 1.10 now is that none of the Golems simply don't do enough damage to make them effective killers.

Some people have had limited success with IG by making him out of Crushing Blow weapons, such as IK maul, etc. However, this leads on to the other major problem with IG: the prevalence of monsters casting Iron Maiden in 1.10. You could build an IG out of some uber-tastic runeword and have him kicking a$$ through 95% of the game, but as soon as he dishes out a couple of hits after being IM-cursed, all he's good for is recycling into toasters.

Most posters on these forums will tell you that Clay Golem is the Golem of choice, as his attack slows down enemies. This is particularly useful against bosses, especially when combine with Decrepify, as it's slow attribute stacks with Clay. Typically however, noone puts more than a point in CG and a point in Golem Mastery, as you'll never beef him up enough to be a good killer, and if he dies you can always recast him.

Another Golem of occasional use is Fire Golem, as some PvP Venomancers use his Fire Aura to take the last point of an adversary after they have been PNova'd. Again, here 1 point is sufficient.

lol I never used my iron golem for dmg.I used his thorns and my amp/CE to kill monsters and bone spirit for runners.
-edit not to mention my high lvl act 1 merc ^__^

[EuroJamie]

lol I never used my iron golem for dmg.I used his thorns and my amp/CE to kill monsters and bone spirit for runners.
-edit not to mention my high lvl act 1 merc ^__^

You'll find the thorns aura will give you scant success in 1.10, I'm afraid, due to the massive life that Hell monsters now have, compared to the comparitively small damage they dish out.

@rickcarson - Steel, eh? Not a bad idea, I've just stuck a point in IG, as a prereq for Revive, so I may well give this a go, just for fun. My other problem with IGs though is that, evey time I get to a Boss, I wanna bring out good ole gumby, which means I have to ditch my IG, and lose the item he was created from :(

[Kyo]

There no replacing ol Clay when it comes to bosses :worship:

[Vigilante8]

You'll find the thorns aura will give you scant success in 1.10, I'm afraid, due to the massive life that Hell monsters now have, compared to the comparitively small damage they dish out.

@rickcarson - Steel, eh? Not a bad idea, I've just stuck a point in IG, as a prereq for Revive, so I may well give this a go, just for fun. My other problem with IGs though is that, evey time I get to a Boss, I wanna bring out good ole gumby, which means I have to ditch my IG, and lose the item he was created from :(
Eurojamie you make a very good point.But if the monsters scale up in life doesnt CE scale up as well?
Plus im trying to avoid being a skellymancer.lol i remember back in the day when you couldnt walk through your summons.Man was arcane sanc a frustrating place for a necro >_<

[EuroJamie]

Eurojamie you make a very good point.But if the monsters scale up in life doesnt CE scale up as well?
Plus im trying to avoid being a skellymancer.lol i remember back in the day when you couldnt walk through your summons.Man was arcane sanc a frustrating place for a necro >_<

CE is a great damage-dealer as it is based on a percentage of the corpse's original life (60-100% iirc)

If you don't want skeletons (either warriors or mages), I'd certainly recommend some other sort of offensive skill, as you'll need something to generate bodies in the first instance, and also for boss kills. You could go melee, even daggermancer, or perhaps even look into the new Jailkeeper guide that appeared on the forums a few days ago.

I wonder if a Mojo-Explodamancer hybrid would work? Could be fun to try... :scratch:

[rickcarson]

Eurojamie you make a very good point.But if the monsters scale up in life doesnt CE scale up as well?
Plus im trying to avoid being a skellymancer.lol i remember back in the day when you couldnt walk through your summons.Man was arcane sanc a frustrating place for a necro >_<

(1) No, corpse explosion does not scale up (with extra players I think you are asking??)

(2) The Arcane Sanctuary is *still* a really frustrating place for a Skellimancer. In fact, if anything, its gotten worse because Skeletons are more important now than they used to be.

About the only good thing going for it is 'at least its not the maggot lair'.

Skeletons and Skellimancers have problems around 'choke points', ie doors and stairs. Because only one or two of your minions will be fighting, it really slows you down. The Arcane Sanctuary is practically nothing but choke points. (Of course... when the most dangerous thing in the game is... a door... how bad can it be, really?)

[Vigilante8]

(1) No, corpse explosion does not scale up (with extra players I think you are asking??)

(2) The Arcane Sanctuary is *still* a really frustrating place for a Skellimancer. In fact, if anything, its gotten worse because Skeletons are more important now than they used to be.

About the only good thing going for it is 'at least its not the maggot lair'.

Skeletons and Skellimancers have problems around 'choke points', ie doors and stairs. Because only one or two of your minions will be fighting, it really slows you down. The Arcane Sanctuary is practically nothing but choke points. (Of course... when the most dangerous thing in the game is... a door... how bad can it be, really?)
Yeah i see what you mean.About the CE its based on monsters hit points right?And if 1.10 scaled monster hit points up would Ce dmg go up as well?
and about arcane and maggot at least now you can run through them just image how hard it was to be stuck behind them not being able to move. :rant:

[Mad Mantis]

Of course... when the most dangerous thing in the game is... a door... how bad can it be, really?

Rickcarson was slain by a door
Diablo's minions point and laugh

Choke points are really bad, but Terror keeps the AS relatively playable. It also functions nicely to clear doors. The Maggot Lair however remains a royal pain in the Azz.

[Kyo]

(1) No, corpse explosion does not scale up (with extra players I think you are asking??)

(2) The Arcane Sanctuary is *still* a really frustrating place for a Skellimancer. In fact, if anything, its gotten worse because Skeletons are more important now than they used to be.

About the only good thing going for it is 'at least its not the maggot lair'.

Skeletons and Skellimancers have problems around 'choke points', ie doors and stairs. Because only one or two of your minions will be fighting, it really slows you down. The Arcane Sanctuary is practically nothing but choke points. (Of course... when the most dangerous thing in the game is... a door... how bad can it be, really?)


Choke Points in general (exception of Maggots lair) - ain't that big of a deal if u know how to manoeuvre your minions, which can be easily remedied by teleport or a simple TP.

[EuroJamie]

Yeah i see what you mean.About the CE its based on monsters hit points right?And if 1.10 scaled monster hit points up would Ce dmg go up as well?
and about arcane and maggot at least now you can run through them just image how hard it was to be stuck behind them not being able to move. :rant:

CE does 60-100% of the exploded monster's original hitpoints in damage. This is divided 50/50 into physical/fire damage.

Unfortunately, in multiplayer games, the 60-100% of the monster's life is calculated based upon the monster's life when only 1 player is in the game, ie before the life is scaled up to account for additional players. This therefore means that, the more players in the game, the less effective CE becomes.

[Kyo]

Think a lot of these types of skills/spells have been nerfed due to the advantage of scaling players up to boost the affect in the past patches. It more to do with balancing the classes i suppose.

[Myrakh-2]

Skeletons and Skellimancers have problems around 'choke points', ie doors and stairs. Because only one or two of your minions will be fighting, it really slows you down. The Arcane Sanctuary is practically nothing but choke points. (Of course... when the most dangerous thing in the game is... a door... how bad can it be, really?)

Of course, it does depend on the build to some extent.

I use magi as well, and THEY keep casting. I'm also a TO user, so I can firewall the bloodlords (cold immune) and spectres (phyiscal immune). And last, I also revive spectres --- they are not extremely efficient, but they are not blocked by anything, and in AS everything that adds some damage helps.

With some luck I can zigzag through the monsters on the passages to reach the next "room". Doesn't work very well, though. Gumby is great here as well, as I can just run into a corner, cast gumby in front of me and the monsters will attack him.

And talking about Gumby: he's the perfect decoy for the summoner; I just cast him on the platform and the summoner is busy with him instead of casting his elemental garbage at me or my friends.

Of course, when I'm in a party, it's mostly the other players doing the killing...
although sometimes they need a hint or two --- I once had to ask a pure fire sorc to meteor the bloodlords behind the (fire immune) hellclans instead of doing nothing... my firewalls are nice, but a real sorc is a little hotter.

Still, AS is 2nd worst after maggots lair, but doable. And for me, maggots lair isn't all that bad either, as there are no (or at least very few) fire immunes, and with some tries I usually manage to fill the passages with my firewalls... paired with lower resist it does hurt them nicely and I end up getting a lot of corpses to explode...

This also works for doors --- if there are non-FIs behind the door, I can use my firewalls to help out. Magi are also casting (although I can't really tell how much of that just hits the wall), and usually I don't need long to get the "boom... boom... boom..." started.

As for the big worm himself: the room is filled with maggots, including quadrazillions of baby maggots. Perfect area for placing firewalls to produce corpses to raise skellies from... and at the same time, my merc is still stuck in the passage, which is actually what I would like him to do everywhere: stay away from the monsters, just share your aura...

Of course, a Skelemancer-merc is probably the only A2 merc in the game who usually survives chaos sanctuary without a weapon... which probably makes him the only A2/A5 merc in the game to surive chaos sanctuary most of the time :-) But that's a different area, in a different act.

And lets face it: a lot of builds don't like maggots lair, and as you said... if doors are the worst enemy in the game... then the build is probably quite hell-viable.

EDIT:
This therefore means that, the more players in the game, the less effective CE becomes.

But then... I don't think Frozen Orb, Meteor, Lightning Sentry, Concentration, Blessed hammer, Strafe or Lightning Fury (to name a few) scale up with the number of players; so it's not really a surprise. Maybe a skelemancer "feels" it more than other classes since he needs (more) corpses to clear the room... whereas other classes just have to cast their stuff more often.

[darnocpdx]

Though I have always liked clay golemn the most even in 1.09 my second favorite was IG made from socketed pally shields (preferablily ones with resists on them already) socketed with Diamonds. With a few points in SM they were nearly impossible to destroy even for the bosses. And I bet with that as your base item they would still hold up quite well. The determining factor for me is that the clay can be recast IG can't. which is more importnat I think that a resilent tank. Even for bosses for example Diablio cast CG on the opposite side of him than you are on and you only have to worry about the ring of fire attack as long as you can keep him (CG) up.