1.10 Frenzy Guide in the making....

[Flatulence]

Hi. I wrote a .09 Frenzy guide. Anyway, it's outdated and I was thinking of putting in a little effort to update it. After playing the 1.10 patch and the ladder for a while, I've come to realize that frenziers are still competitive builds and could do rather well in the 1.10 world with the right setup and build. So, here are my initial ideas...



In .09 I advocated a Warcry-Frenzier with moderate damage and high life. Well, times have changed. This isn't going to work that well anymore, and to be honest, the only place that warcry is really going to save your butt is in cows. Furthermore, it's no longer that easy to pop out a level 95 character, so skill points must be taken into consideration. I'd like to make a frenzier that is viable at levels 80-85, if possible. So... my new guide will be advocating a plain Frenzier with high defense, high damage, and moderate life.


Damage is king now, and my .09 build just doesn't have the damage output that 1.10 requires. So, with that in mind....
As far as skills go, the core of the build will be 20 Frenzy, 20 Battle Orders, 20 Shout, 1 Weapon Mastery, 1 Berzerk, 1 Leap Attack, 1 Natural Resistances, 1 Increased Speed. The big debate then is weapon mastery vs synergy. Well, weapon mastery gives 5% ed and 8% ar per level while synergies give 8% ed. Assuming we can make up for the AR with charms (and with that in mind, frenzy gives a good AR boost as it is), synergies look like the better option. However, it is also viable to put 10 points in a weapon mastery and 10 in a Frenzy synergy.

So, in a master list, skills look like:

20 Frenzy
20 Battle Orders
20 Shout
10 Weapon Mastery
10+ Taunt
1 Berserk
1 Leap Attack
1-3 Natural Resistances
1 Increased Speed


And now to explain all this... shout will provide you with the high defense this build (*and 1.10 in general) requires. This means that you do not need as much life, since you'll be getting hit less frequently. Battle Orders also goes a long way towards helping out your life. Ultimately, aim for 2.5-3K life on the build. Less life means that you can add more points to strength, thus boosting your damage further. In fact, from my tinkering I've found that in this build you can put 100 more points in strength (=100% ed) than you could in the .09 build. Keep in mind that that's a 100% ed bonus there, which would take 12-13 skill points in synergies to achieve.

So, let's compare this to my .09 build that I recommended. We took out 10 points from weapon mastery (20 in .09 down to 10 in 1.10) and put them in a synergy. This gives us 30% more enhanced damage total. We're also putting 100 more points in strength than vitality. This is 100% more enhanced damage. So, this 1.10 build offers us 130% more enhanced damage than previously. Furthermore, the skill layout above is for a relatively low leveled character. If people are dedicated to getting their chars up to higher levels, more points could be added to frenzy synergies to further boost the damage output.


Another thing of note....

Speed now seems more important. There are too many things in the game that can cast crap on you to slow you down. And also, since players now spend 99% of their time doing baal instead of cows, there's always decrepify to keep in mind. So, reaching that second to last frenzy breakpoint is something I'm going to stress a lot more than I did in my .09 guide. And of course you'll want a "cannot be frozen" mod on some equipment piece. That's probably going to be a ravenfrost for most and a duriel's shell for some. Anyway, get it from somewhere.


As far as equipment goes, not THAT much has changed since .09 AS FAR AS NON-WEAPONS go. I'll be going in depth on the new runeword armors as part of the guide, but the weapons present me a problem. I have an eth botd CB, and that's my only new runeword weapon. And I used it on a WW barb. I just don't feel that I have the experience to give x/5 ratings to the new runeword weapons. As an avid .09'er, I'm still a HUGE fan of schaeffers, but I know that they're no longer the "best" for a frenzier. Maybe you guys could help me out with the weapons part, if you guys have experience in the matter? Let me know here. I'd like to get that problem taken care of before I get to that section.


Let me know what you think.

[acceleration turkey]

uh, warcry is more useful now than ever. try putting those 10 points in taunt (which will add a whopping 200 damage, if that) into warcry. you need survivability more than ever. warcry also increases killing speed (ask me how).

[memememe173]

take a look at Ash Housewares' Frenzy guide in the sticky, I think he did a good job of it

damage is not king, life is

[Ash Housewares]

I wrote a guide for moderate damage warcry based frenzy barb, it worked fine, great actually

[Flatulence]

And I'm *not* writing another warcry guide...

I have 2 warcry frenziers and I really don't see their usefulness in 1.10. I feel that a barb with high damage, good speed, and high defense is more than a match for any part of the game (with the glaring exception of the chaos sanctuary)

[Flatulence]

I wrote a guide for moderate damage warcry based frenzy barb, it worked fine, great actually


1. And in it I see that you talk about a frenzier as a pvp'er. Come on.


2. And speaking of a warcry-frenzier..... http://strategy.diabloii.net/news.php?id=508

[memememe173]

Where, I don't see it...and you don't need a max war cry, just 5-10 points works fine

[Ash Housewares]

um, I wasn't challenging your pedigree, this isn't a pissing contest, I was just saying that I found warcry/frenzy to still be effective in 1.10, if you are writing a guide that covers things mine doesn't then I'm all for it, but if your guide lauds the inferior nature of wc/frenzy in 1.10, then expect my retort

[Flatulence]

I'm not trying to get in a pissing contest and I'm not insulting warcry/frenzy. Hell, my warcry-frenzier is sitll my favorite character. Yes, he's still very viable in 1.10. I just decided to experiment with other frenzy builds in 1.10 to see what works, and I'm reporting my results. I get annoyed when a legion of kids tells me to "read the other guide" and that all my ideas suck when I HIGHLY doubt they've even tried them. That's all. Hell, you didn't even do this, it's directed at the other replies I got. Sorry if I came off as being nasty towards you.

um, I wasn't challenging your pedigree, this isn't a pissing contest, I was just saying that I found warcry/frenzy to still be effective in 1.10, if you are writing a guide that covers things mine doesn't then I'm all for it, but if your guide lauds the inferior nature of wc/frenzy in 1.10, then expect my retort

[Ash Housewares]

I'm not trying to get in a pissing contest and I'm not insulting warcry/frenzy. Hell, my warcry-frenzier is sitll my favorite character. Yes, he's still very viable in 1.10. I just decided to experiment with other frenzy builds in 1.10 to see what works, and I'm reporting my results. I get annoyed when a legion of kids tells me to "read the other guide" and that all my ideas suck when I HIGHLY doubt they've even tried them. That's all. Hell, you didn't even do this, it's directed at the other replies I got. Sorry if I came off as being nasty towards you.

I didn't tell you to read my guide, but it is the only frenzy 1.10 guide, and I will recommend having a look if you want to try and fill in my holes and come up with a good alternative to it

and what am I to make of "kids" it surely sounds like you are turning this into a contest to me, one idea does not necessarily suck

whether it's directed at me or not, it was my guide in question, and it sure looks like you attacked it in a previous post, particularly regarding frenzy as pvp, which, god, everyone keeps asking about even though I tell them they would die endlessly

and I am anxious to hear your results, I haven't played enough to test other builds thoroughly enough, and it was my ambition to construct a comprehensive frenzy guide, thats why I would recommend you having a look at it, it's incomplete regarding higher damage builds

[rikstaker]

take a look at Ash Housewares' Frenzy guide in the sticky, I think he did a good job of it

damage is not king, life is

puma:For your upcoming story:this guy deserves the role of the funky druid u were looking for,u know the guy who walks into a tavern,sparks of a barbaric brawl & walks out like nothing happened. :creep:

rIK

[Taz]

I feel that a barb with high damage, good speed, and high defense is more than a match for any part of the game (with the glaring exception of the chaos sanctuary)
I reached the same conclusion after many ww barb builds starting from 1.10 beta.
I also think the issue in 1.10 is the dmg output not survability.Yes dmg is still king, he also got a leutenant - crushing blow.

[memememe173]

puma:For your upcoming story:this guy deserves the role of the funky druid u were looking for,u know the guy who walks into a tavern,sparks of a barbaric brawl & walks out like nothing happened. :creep:

rIK
damage > life :cheesy: still sounds wrong to me

[rikstaker]

1.damage-King.
2.Speed
3.Life
4.ar/defense
5.cb/ds/defsnse cut/prevent monster heal.....

Bo gives life,shout gives defense,battlecry reduces enemy defense/its like more ar for u,but no barb skill gives speed,combat skills give ed% which is entirely dependant on how good ur weapon is.So damage is the prime aim for barbs,speed is just a close second,life,ar defense come later,everything else like cb is just icing.

mememe:life > damage goes for bards not barbs except of course,if you are building a barb that can survive IM.

Your first post was really....I cant think of the right word.Flat has every right to fell the way he is feeling right now.

Chill everyone. :drink:

rIK.

[Taz]

1.damage-King.
2.Speed
3.Life
4.ar/defense
5.cb/ds/defsnse cut/prevent monster heal.....

Bo gives life,shout gives defense,battlecry reduces enemy defense/its like more ar for u,but no barb skill gives speed,combat skills give ed% which is entirely dependant on how good ur weapon is.So damage is the prime aim for barbs,speed is just a close second,life,ar defense come later,everything else like cb is just icing.

mememe:life > damage goes for bards not barbs except of course,if you are building a barb that can survive IM.

Your first post was really....I cant think of the right word.Flat has every right to fell the way he is feeling right now.

Chill everyone. :drink:

rIK.
Frenzy increases speed, and getting 100% cb can double your killing power even if your dmg is high so is far from icing imo, anyway not in the same category as prevent monster heal, ow, defence cut. (Btw i`m talking about pvm only).

[memememe173]

1.damage-King.
2.Speed
3.Life
4.ar/defense
5.cb/ds/defsnse cut/prevent monster heal.....

Bo gives life,shout gives defense,battlecry reduces enemy defense/its like more ar for u,but no barb skill gives speed,combat skills give ed% which is entirely dependant on how good ur weapon is.So damage is the prime aim for barbs,speed is just a close second,life,ar defense come later,everything else like cb is just icing. When described in that manner, I might agree, but in a flat comparision (2k life and 4k damage vs. 4k life and 2k damage, I'd take the life)





Your first post was really....I cant think of the right word.Flat has every right to fell the way he is feeling right now.

Chill everyone. :drink:

rIK.I don't see what's wrong with suggesting he reads Ash's guide (I read everything on the boards I could find about singer's before I made mine, even though 99% of it I already knew)

My current view is life>damage

all your number system says to me is that barbs need to work hardest to get damage, not that it's most important thing on a character

[rikstaker]

Damn.I just cant help straying into ww territory,yep forgot, frenzy gives speed(no doubt about that).Cb improves killing speed immensely(more so with fast attacks like ww/frenzy),but it is a mod & there are various sources for that,for e.g u can find something which gives 40% cb,but u certainly wont find anything which improves life/defense by 40% straight,thats why I placed it after life/defense but before def cut/pmh-it is the most crucial attack mod in the game.

But...

I'd never swallow this: life>damage.


rIK

[Taz]

all your number system says to me is that barbs need to work hardest to get damage, not that it's most important thing on a character
Well seems to me that`s the real issue here. Guess it depends what u want from a char. Personaly i like a pvm baba that hits hard and there are many ways to increase that while u can easily work on his defences via skills - they cover all the main areas: life, defence, rezists.

[Taz]

Damn.I just cant help straying into ww territory,yep forgot, frenzy gives speed(no doubt about that).

But

I'd never swallow this: life>damage.

rIK
And i really don`t understand why u have to rate them like x>y>z, is not that simple.

[cronus]

Hello everyone,

I've been playing with my frenzier in 1.10 for a little bit, trying new things here and there and I just want to share my experience playing a frenzier with berserk as a synergy. Berserk's 20% magic damage is really nice, considering the power dmg from Azurewrath that most people are so fond of. I am no good with all the formulae but if you hold a 500 max dmg eth BOTD zerker, you do around 500 max magic final dmg, not counting deadly strike that will double it. Frenzy charged berserk is really fun too. :) I am trying to build characters with lesser items that i can actually find, than to do mad mf just to trade for that few runes for the BOTDs, COHs, blah blah, like I did in last ladder. I planned for the frenzier to use dual horizon's tornado for the 300 max dmg (300 magic) with high CB and critical/deadly strike to get around 600 magic dmg. CB doesn't prove to be effective in high player count games. Then... i found stormlash - it's ridiculously fun. I'd certainly max mastery. The AR is something I have problem with, relying only on frenzy and mastery skill levels: 6k AR. That's... bad but it can be remedied.

As for warcry, the only time i really really need the warcry to give the highest time length is when I have to fight those Hell Lord - my mercenary secretly told me that they frenzy with dual eth hellslayers.

I'm trying to build a javalin frenzier/thrower right now with a level 1 BO. Yeah, probably a dumb idea. I'm hoping togo with 2.5k life and lifetap. Well, Durga better fight harder and freeze everything before he dies from the level 10 prebuffed BO.

[rikstaker]

I never intended to,I know it isn't simple to build a barb,they require a bit of everything,but to build a well rounded character one needs to give priority on merit.Thats all.I just listed what I felt is a good descending order list of priorities.

BTW mememe is the genious who started it."dmg is not king life is" :rant:

:howdy:

rIK

[memememe173]

Of course you do need to balance, but I just prefer my scale tiping towards life, I know I can't get by with no damage, and rik knows he can't get by with no life

[rikstaker]

Gentlemen, guys,

What I meant with the list of priorities & the equation dmg>life is simply based on priority alone. When I am building a barb I’ll be trying to boost his damage, that will be my first priority. Life, speed everything give a support role and will never take the place of damage on the list of my priority. And I know very well that I wont live to deal the damage I seek,without the support mods of life,def etc….

I am not saying that u can have 5k dmg, 4k life and not 5 k life & 4 k damage,its mememe who is walking that lane, judging from what he has said in all his posts. :rant:

rIK

[royalesse]

Food for thought.... Frenzy gives 5 % Damage and 7% AR plus some wicked speed. Masteries give 5% Damage, 8% AR, and 1% Critical...

So why not get frenzy to a comfortable speed and then max Mastery and a Synergy?

7 Frenzy including + skills looks like a good stopping point for diminishing speed returns. I'd tinker with this:

7 Frenzy
6 Double swing (synergy and no mana costs... great for mana problems)
20 Mastery
10 Frenzy
20 Taunt
20 BO

1 in: Howl, Shout, Increase Speed, Increase Stamina, Iron Skin, Natural Resistance, Leap, Leap Attack

That gives you 451% damage +10% Magic Damage on the frenzy side and 305% Magic Dam on the Zerk side (With a 1.6 sec duration... not that it matters).

Frenzy ar should be about +322% with the mastery. It's a little odd to not max a skill and say that you feature it as the centerpiece of your build but I just don't see the point on the speed. Admittingly, I'm talking out of my a$$ and this is a theoretical build and I haven't applied it. Maybe some one could shed some light experience wise. :worship:

On the weapon side kingslayer and crescent moon look like good choices (for AR & SMEs)... supposedly there's a +50% damage bonus on axes for demons. Bosses will probably be a problem since neither howl nor taunt will work on them. Ergo... that +50% should come in handy.

P.S. I'd consider a point in Grimward since your howl will be so low but again that's speculation and I don't know how practical it is to make a kill and a grimward and taunt from behind it to keep the crowd off you.

[memememe173]

Gentlemen, guys,

What I meant with the list of priorities & the equation dmg>life is simply based on priority alone. When I am building a barb I’ll be trying to boost his damage, that will be my first priority. Life, speed everything give a support role and will never take the place of damage on the list of my priority. And I know very well that I wont live to deal the damage I seek,without the support mods of life,def etc….

I am not saying that u can have 5k dmg, 4k life and not 5 k life & 4 k damage,its mememe who is walking that lane, judging from what he has said in all his posts. :rant:

rIK
no, I'm not saying that at all, I'm just saying I'd take the 5k life, while you'd take the 5k damage, each to his own

[rikstaker]

When described in that manner, I might agree, but in a flat comparision (2k life and 4k damage vs. 4k life and 2k damage, I'd take the life)
What r u saying 173? get real.does higher damage mean lower life?If I am trying to boost my barbs damage by eq/skill am I doing it at the expense of life?I am not talking titans here.so,4k damage barbs cant have 3-4 k life?
know I can't get by with no damage, and rik knows he can't get by with no life
again 173,u are talking extremes here.There is no point in discussing that,since that was never my intention.Again I always said that damage is the no.1 priority,that doesn't mean & I never said that barbs should have lower life than damage or no life. :cheesy:
all your number system says to me is that barbs need to work hardest to get damage, not that it's most important thing on a character
is there a difference? :scratch:

rIK

I cant beleive I dragged myself into this brawl,this thread is cursed.I am leaving.

[memememe173]

you're the one making a big deal out of it

I think that on a modest budget barb, life > damage, you don't

of course you want to balance, but by ranking one, you give more importance to a certain aspect...you choose damage, I choose life

[Ash Housewares]

monsters have resistance to leech now, titans aren't the powerhouse they once were, I would pick life over damage and have no problem relying upon crushing blow/open wounds to supplement attack power

[Flatulence]

royalesse: it's a good idea that I tried in SP.... the thing is, max frenzy is pretty necessary to get the speed bonuses. It's easier to max the skill and get the speed bonuses there than try to make up for the speed later with equipment.

As for the great debate... well, it'll go on. I'm currently a supporter of damage over life. I know it's a simplification, but I guess that's bound to happen. Honestly, I'm sure Ash's pvm frenzier works wonders. I'm just suggesting an alternate build that MAY offer greater killing speed.

[royalesse]

royalesse: it's a good idea that I tried in SP.... the thing is, max frenzy is pretty necessary to get the speed bonuses. It's easier to max the skill and get the speed bonuses there than try to make up for the speed later with equipment.

Yeah... I just checked the speed on the german speed calculator (yes, I know it's jacked)... and it is a big difference in speed. Anyone know of an accurate speed calculator? j/w

As for the great debate... well, it'll go on. I'm currently a supporter of damage over life. I know it's a simplification, but I guess that's bound to happen. Honestly, I'm sure Ash's pvm frenzier works wonders. I'm just suggesting an alternate build that MAY offer greater killing speed.

Eh... to me it matters if you're playing Hardcore or, if you are into ladder running.

On a different note... have you looked at Dracoy's #s guide? It says throwing weapons, daggers, and claws get damage bonuses from both dex and str... Fleshripper is a helluva good dagger. The durability will drive you crazy on a frenzier though. Also, the animation on a thrusting weapon is marginally faster so the -20 base speed is a lot faster than most think. So while there is no Mastery to help with AR & Damage there's -50% target defense on it as well as Crushing blow and better damage bonuses... just thinkin in print now...

[mstrnicegui]

Alright, for anyone who's thinking about posting on this dmg vs. life argument, read this thread (http://forums.rpgforums.net/showthread.php?t=217378). If you haven't had enough of that topic, which has already been done to death, your posts should go there in a more relevant thread. Remember, we're all on the same side, except in some old war stories. :cheesy:

This thread is about flatulence's upcoming 1.10 guide, which looks to be a good thing. It looks to be a great guide to cover an area Ash's excellent guide didn't.

[royalesse]

royalesse: it's a good idea that I tried in SP
Yep just tested it too... tried to monkey around with the equipment to see if I could make it not matter... Unfortunately... the killing speed and survivability was noticable.

At lvl 84 with 94 skills... I ended up with:

20 BO
10 Taunt
20 Frenzy
9 Berserk
20 Weapon Mastery
5 Nat Resists

1 in pre reqs, leap attack, and Increased speed

Equipment wise...

UM'd Vamp Gaze
CoH
IK belt
IK gloves
Gore Riders
Atma's Scarab
Carrion Wind
Raven Frost
Kingslayer
Crescent Moon

I could make progress towards diablo at players 8 in SP. Carrion Wind helped this buid a bunch... THe twister that it casts happens quite a bit because of the speed and keeps you from getting 'oh sh*t' swamped. Also, the damage to mana keeps you from having mana problems (so no more points in double swing)... lastly the Pnova is gravy.

Grim Ward proved not to be useful since you can leech enough with a low lvl leech cause your damage is so high. There was a stone skin caster that sucked all my mana before I could kill it. I had to go to town to get mana before finishing him off. Lastly, it was hilarious on how quickly you could get away if you're frenzied. Then you can regroup and taunt them to your new location.

[rikstaker]

no, I'm not saying that at all, I'm just saying I'd take the 5k life, while you'd take the 5k damage, each to his own

wow,u deny it & u say it again.

Didnt u say u'll have 2k dmg,4k life & not vice-versa or am I misunderstanding you? What is ur point here? life should be higher than damage or life is more important than damage? :scratch:

raaaaaaaaaaaah! and why me???? Did I say anywhere that dmg should be higher than life?or I'll take 5k dmg & not 5k life?

How many times do I have to say it,that is not what I meant by dmg is king & life comes next. :rant:

Buddy,I build all my barbs with damage as my priority & I never found that it was compromising my life,heck.. some even end up with higher life.

Ash: Didn't I say I am not talking titans?You know well that there are better ways to boost dmg than the str-vit trade off.

Agreed,leech isn't as effective as it used to be,but thats just one of the reasons why I am advocating damage here.Do I need to clarify that?Your argument went in favour of my client. :evil:

re;supplementing attack power;cb-ok,ow-??? pvp right?

rIK

[Ash Housewares]

Ash: Didn't I say I am not talking titans?You know well that there are better ways to boost dmg than the str-vit trade off.

Agreed,leech isn't as effective as it used to be,but thats just one of the reasons why I am advocating damage here.Do I need to clarify that?Your argument went in favour of my client. :evil:

re;supplementing attack power;cb-ok,ow-??? pvp right?

rIK

I don't know if you're talking titans, I don't care, I wasn't arguing with you

[rikstaker]

I don't know if you're talking titans, I don't care, I wasn't arguing with you

You aren't,but I am-against anyone who says life is more important than damage to barbs-

I won't back off now.Though other dmg buffs like Gui himself,are doing well to stay away from this. :rant:

As for mememe,I am just waiting endlessly to see if he understands that even if dmg>life (priority),it doesn't mean that dmg>life (figure)

I should have let u & Flat go at each other,but the smartpants that I am,I ended up getting involved.It's almost like ...I am enjoying this. :drink:

rIK

[mstrnicegui]

I was staying away from it because I'd be hijacking this thread from what it's supposed to be about... this argument doesn't belong in this thread.

[rikstaker]

I dont think there is any turning back now,if u are willing to join in,I'll post my upcoming list of arguments in ur thread & post a link here,but wont mememe escape that way? :lol:

rIK

edit: Gui,stuck on the sidelines again?

[Taz]

I was staying away from it because I'd be hijacking this thread from what it's supposed to be about... this argument doesn't belong in this thread.
If u are talking about the dmg vs life debate i think u are wrong and and the argument belongs here, here`s why: we got on top of our forum a conc guide, ik guide, frenzy guide, bersrker guide, and a ww guide (i`m talking only about the meele barbs) and they all have one thing in common - "STR enough for gear, DEX.....VIT everything else". It looks like points in STR are useless which i don`t agree with.
I`ll leave apart things like cb, ow, itd...etc (things that increase killing capability) and defence, rezists, PDR...etc (things increasing survivability), so is basicaly STR vs VIT, each one enhanced by the things above, or 1%ED vs ~8 HP.
Than is a matter of taste, and what u want from your char: the most killing speed or the "can`t touch me " attitude. Sure there`s room to manuver betwen those two and find the balance u prefer.
I`m not an freanzy expert (all i can think of is Stormlash) as i prefer ww, zerk, even bash over frenzy or conc (that`s not argueable - is just my preference) but the main thing setting apart Flatulence`s coming guide from all others is the basic attitude, frenzy`s case reflecting more on a char buit than in ww`s case (no synergies to worry about).

[rikstaker]

yeh,I beleive we should stick to this thread for the sake of continuity.Gui?

taz:I think the 'can't touch me attitude' is irrelevent to life & hence this argument-its more about defense & blocking.I strongly beleive that block vs life is a much more meaningful debate since points in dex will always mean lesser in vit,but since this one has already taken it course,we'll just get on with it.

Now u are diverting things here,its dmg vs life,not str vs vit,stick to the former.Wep dmg/skill ed is the best way to boost dmg.Strength is just like upping the air intake after u install the turbo kits & stuff.

'Str enough fo eq' I know its annoying & I am a critic of this.Strength is by no means a pushover.But,keep str out here.It was always dmg vs life.There is a difference.Dmg & life are wider terms(dmg isnt limited to strength & can be dmg from wep/skill & life isnt limited to vit it can be from plus to life gear or plus to warcry skills)

keep it simple.

'Striving for dmg compromises life' is a misconception,except of course u go overboard with a titan.For the umpteenth time we arent discussing that.

rIK

[mstrnicegui]

dmg vs life is not a compelling debate, since the two are not mutually exclusive. The best ways to maximize life are not the best ways to maximize dmg. There could be some debate when it comes to the extreme tweaking for pvp, but since this guide is clearly pvm only... don't go there.

You're both arguing for the same thing. You both just emphasize different points. So... stop it.

[memememe173]

Buddy,I build all my barbs with damage as my priority & I never found that it was compromising my life,heck.. some even end up with higher life.
right, you build barbs with damage as first priority, I choose life, I don't see what's so hard about this

[rikstaker]

aaaaaaaahh! its like.... constipation relief. :drink:

Finally u understood that I meant dmg>life (priority).Plus u made it clear to me as well that.....

for u: life>dmg (priority) & its not imperative that life>dmg (figure)? right? (though wacry dmg can sometimes exceed life without bo)

If yes,then its fine with me,eventhough I am opposed to that.

rIK

[wisedoor]

IMHO 10 points in taunt will NEVER beat 10 more points in weapon mastery.
Alas, points in ANY sinergy can´t beat points put into THE weapon mastery.

[mstrnicegui]

It's true that 10 points into a synergy often isn't as beneficial as 10 points into weapon mastery, but when the synergy is used in your strategy it can be more beneficial than weapon mastery. While most people only think of taunt as a skill to make monsters come to you, it also has def and dmg reduction that isn't capped by the 50%dr on gear you wear. Bo is a synergy to conc which provides more dmg than weapon mastery, shout provides more dmg to zerk than weapon mastery. Often you don't have to worry about this though, cause there's usually enough points to take care of the synergy and weapon mastery.

In this case, I believe that it is worthy to replace a few points in weapon mastery with taunt because of the innate benefits when using taunt and the dmg synergy it gives. Frenzy gives a very nice ar bonus and the critical strike from mastery has very sharp diminishing returns, so the dmg bonus is the only thing left to really warrant its use, but taunt has a better dmg bonus iirc.

[Ash Housewares]

IMHO 10 points in taunt will NEVER beat 10 more points in weapon mastery.
Alas, points in ANY sinergy can´t beat points put into THE weapon mastery.

it appears he is anticipating a high amount of +skills and is going with physical points into the synergy while relying upon +skills to boost his mastery, thats my guess anyways, I don't know any other scenario for neglecting mastery in favor of synergy, and even still it would take a substantial +skill boost to make the trade-off worthwhile