Throwing Barb Still Viablo

[Organic_Pear]

Can Throwing Barbs Still Be a viablo option in 1.10

Mine was planned to use this gear

eth demon arch 208% ed
Rare 356% 20 IAS JAVELIN

arreats
arcaine valor
verdungos
draculs
marrowalk
raven frost X 2
cats eye
anni


20 throw mastery
20 double swing
5-10 Double Throw
1 Frenzy
1 Natural Resist
1 Iron Skin
1 Increased Speed
20 Battle Orders
(possibly 20 in spear mastery for melee with javs)

I was wondering if this is still viable for pvm and pvp in 1.10
just wondering

[[D]Rui[D]]

yes a throwbarb is still variable in 1.10. might not be a cookie cutter like the rest but its definately fun to play with.
i have one and its pretty much able to hold his own in Hell. not sure bout PvP but its no problem in PvM.

ohh yar hope you dun mind going to town very few minutes to replenish your weapons. waiting for them to replenish by themselves is time wasting......

[essojay]

Some PvP Throwbarbs pwn too, although they take a lot of expensive items, even for a PvP character.

ot: at first I wondered what viablo was ... possibly diablo on viagra?

[acceleration turkey]

my thoughts:

-i recommend using a gimmershred for the high elemental damage in addition to your good rare. it is very hard to kill stone skin monsters and phys immunes otherwise, because berserk doesnt work as well with a throwing build. or just use dual gimmershreds.

-dont bother with points in spear mastery...put more points in double throw for the AR boost. you are going to need it if you dont want to use angelic ring + amulet.

-demon's arch only stacks 80 deep. it runs out way too fast. replenish is not enough. you really want gimmershreds which stack 240 deep. they last a lot longer.

-use razortail and not verdungos. you dont need damage reduction with a thrower...you will have high enough life from BO and by staying away from monsters. razortail boosts your effectiveness against packs of monsters with its 33% pierce mod.

-use gorerider and not marrowwalk. i cant even guess why you would use marrowwalk, except maybe for the stat bonus.

-dont use draculs...use laying of hands or some other ias gloves. since you cant socket throwing weapons you are going to need all the ias you can get to reach a respectable throwing speed.

-speaking of ias, ditch cats eye for highlords. you keep the 20% ias and gain deadly strike, skill bonus and lightning resist. or get angelic amulet and 1 ring, and keep 1 raven frost ring.

-its 'viable.' :)

[Organic_Pear]

my thoughts:

-i recommend using a gimmershred for the high elemental damage in addition to your good rare. it is very hard to kill stone skin monsters and phys immunes otherwise, because berserk doesnt work as well with a throwing build. or just use dual gimmershreds.

-dont bother with points in spear mastery...put more points in double throw for the AR boost. you are going to need it if you dont want to use angelic ring + amulet.

-demon's arch only stacks 80 deep. it runs out way too fast. replenish is not enough. you really want gimmershreds which stack 240 deep. they last a lot longer.

-use razortail and not verdungos. you dont need damage reduction with a thrower...you will have high enough life from BO and by staying away from monsters. razortail boosts your effectiveness against packs of monsters with its 33% pierce mod.

-use gorerider and not marrowwalk. i cant even guess why you would use marrowwalk, except maybe for the stat bonus.

-dont use draculs...use laying of hands or some other ias gloves. since you cant socket throwing weapons you are going to need all the ias you can get to reach a respectable throwing speed.

-speaking of ias, ditch cats eye for highlords. you keep the 20% ias and gain deadly strike, skill bonus and lightning resist. or get angelic amulet and 1 ring, and keep 1 raven frost ring.

-its 'viable.' :)


Would the Dex bonus and move speedon cats eye not be better then the deadly strike and light resist on highlord? Also I thought a near perfect eth demon arch would be a awesome thrower weapon? Maybe im wrong but I thought it would be super good...

any other opinions on this are welcomed

[acceleration turkey]

Would the Dex bonus and move speedon cats eye not be better then the deadly strike and light resist on highlord? Also I thought a near perfect eth demon arch would be a awesome thrower weapon? Maybe im wrong but I thought it would be super good...

any other opinions on this are welcomed

throwing weapons are .75/.75 strength and dex bonus, so a 25 dex bonus would add 18.75% weapon damage.

eth demon arch probably does around 225 or 250 avg damage, so +18.75% adds about 40 damage.

in contrast, deadly strike works after your double swing and mastery damage bonus. after maxed double swing +200% and mastery +130%, and maybe +150% from strength and dex, a 240 avg damage demon arch could do around 1200 or 1500 damage...deadly strike multiplies that damage, not the base weapon damage.

in general strength and dex are a piss poor way to increase your damage and attack rating. +flat damage like wartravs or deadly strike like gores or highlords are far better ways to increase your damage. wartravs 15-25 damage bonus gets multiplied by your mastery, attack skill, strength/dex bonus, and will be doubled by deadly strike. deadly strike works after all the bonuses, so it is also good. stat bonuses from strength and dex only work on your base weapon damage.

eth demons arch would be a good pvp throwing weapon because the damage is very high, but there are only 80 in a stack. the replenish feature adds 1 spear per 3 seconds...you can throw 10 or 12 spears in that time. replenish is not as good as stack increase, although on an ethereal weapon you have no choice. you will use up all your demon arches on a single boss pack, and then have nothing. if you really want to use them, just make sure you have a backup weapon.

[Omikron8]

Dump Arkaine's

Pick up duress or lionheart, way better defensive and offensive mods than the lousy +2 skills.

[Organic_Pear]

Dump Arkaine's

Pick up duress or lionheart, way better defensive and offensive mods than the lousy +2 skills.

what do you guys think of warshrikes (eth or non eth)

any good? big stack replenish and piercing ? sort of low damage tho

[acceleration turkey]

what do you guys think of warshrikes (eth or non eth)

any good? big stack replenish and piercing ? sort of low damage tho

the listed damage is low because they have deadly strike. also, the strength of the item in my opinion is the built in pierce. pierce not only helps you kill mobs but it helps you have more fun with a thrower, because it encourages you to line up shots, which adds strategy. with razortail and warshrikes you would have 83% pierce, which is a lot. id say warshrikes are pretty good. gimmershreds are still the best throwing weapons because of how much elemental damage they bring to the table.

the good thing about throwing weapons versus javs is that warshrikes already stack 200 deep even without a stack mod. 200 with replenish should give you a lot of fighting time.

[[D]Rui[D]]

my throw-barb equipment set up.

arreats
archon "duress"
verdungo
dracul's / LoH
gore rider / eth sandstorm trek
rare +2 barb skill ammy with misc stats / atmas
raven frost
rare dual leech ring with misc stats and resist all
dual glimmer / dual lacerators

actually upgraded eth scalper is kinda nice thrower weapon.

warshrikes's speed is very fast.....but its more like a backup instead of your main weapon.

[Organic_Pear]

Rui[D]']my throw-barb equipment set up.

arreats
archon "duress"
verdungo
dracul's / LoH
gore rider / eth sandstorm trek
rare +2 barb skill ammy with misc stats / atmas
raven frost
rare dual leech ring with misc stats and resist all
dual glimmer / dual lacerators

actually upgraded eth scalper is kinda nice thrower weapon.

warshrikes's speed is very fast.....but its more like a backup instead of your main weapon.





why is it more like your backup weapon? with pierce deadly strike and super fast attack speed wouldnt it be efficient ?

just wondering why u say it would be a backup weapon?

Also with fast attack speed more open wounds crushingblow etc is
transferred

also wondering if difference between normal and eth shrikes is big enough to worry abotu or pay for or w.e

[[D]Rui[D]]

glimmers - high elementary damage, huge stack.

lacerators - %Amp, PMH, open wounds, monster flee ( good as to prevent been swarm by them )

warshirkes - huge stack, pierce attack, deadly strike.

to me i value lacerators over warshirkes for mainly %Amp and PMH. because this barb is mainly for DC encounter.. sorry if i forgot to mention it. :)

[zei_incarnate]

I had a throw barb in ladder season 1.

Here was my setup:

-Dual warshrikes. Also had dual warshrikes on switch, so I could fight a long time before having to repair. You can have one set of weapons replenishing while you use the other set this way.
-Lionheart dusk shroud armor
-Arreats face helm
-Razortail belt - 83% chance to pierce with warshrikes.
-War Traveller boots - better than goreriders because + dmg adds more dmg to throwing than to other types of attacks.
- Wisp projector ring - I liked to use heart of the wolverine
- Dual leech ring - just needed something with mana leech here
- Highlords amulet - at lvl 84 I had 81% deadly strike and 22% critical
- Lots of elemental dmg charms so physical immunes didnt last long (merc used reapers toll so this wasn't much of an issue anyways)
-Use a might merc, he adds a lot of dmg

Warshrikes are definately the best weapons to use for pvm. They are fast, they last a long time. The pierce, combined with razortail, will have you mowing down groups of monsters faster than any other weapons. Why? Because if you play with a small amount of tactics, each throw will be hitting several monsters instead of just one. If you hit three monsters with one throw, you just tripled your damage.

And the chance to cast nova on striking looks VERY cool when you throw into big mobs. Hell cows is a great place to set off a fireworks show because they have enough life to live more than a couple hits and come in tightly packed groups.

[Scorpzion]

Can some of you tell me the damage you do with ur throw babas?

[acceleration turkey]

I had a throw barb in ladder season 1.

Here was my setup:

-Dual warshrikes. Also had dual warshrikes on switch, so I could fight a long time before having to repair. You can have one set of weapons replenishing while you use the other set this way.
-Lionheart dusk shroud armor
-Arreats face helm
-Razortail belt - 83% chance to pierce with warshrikes.
-War Traveller boots - better than goreriders because + dmg adds more dmg to throwing than to other types of attacks.
- Wisp projector ring - I liked to use heart of the wolverine
- Dual leech ring - just needed something with mana leech here
- Highlords amulet - at lvl 84 I had 81% deadly strike and 22% critical
- Lots of elemental dmg charms so physical immunes didnt last long (merc used reapers toll so this wasn't much of an issue anyways)
-Use a might merc, he adds a lot of dmg

Warshrikes are definately the best weapons to use for pvm. They are fast, they last a long time. The pierce, combined with razortail, will have you mowing down groups of monsters faster than any other weapons. Why? Because if you play with a small amount of tactics, each throw will be hitting several monsters instead of just one. If you hit three monsters with one throw, you just tripled your damage.

And the chance to cast nova on striking looks VERY cool when you throw into big mobs. Hell cows is a great place to set off a fireworks show because they have enough life to live more than a couple hits and come in tightly packed groups.

i like your setup, but i need to add one thing. the displayed throwing damage is bugged...what happens is that the synergy from double swing multiplies your end damage instead of your weapon damage only, so it looks like war travs add a lot of damage but they dont add as much as the display indicates. i still think war travs are a good choice since the crushing blow on gores is only 1/2 as effective when used at range, but its pretty close between gores and war travs. with warshrike the temptation to use war travs is much greater because the damage bonus will be deadly struck 50% of the time.

im pretty sure that it is just a display bug, and that the real damage is calculated correctly, with the double swing synergy only multiplying your weapon damage.

ill show you the difference:

+160% damage from maxed double swing (8% per level)
+140% damage per level maxed and with a few +skills
+112% damage from 150 strength (str x .75 = damage multiplier)
+90% damage from 120 dex (dex x .75 = damage multiplier)
+20% from lionheart
= +522% damage

the +522% multiplies your weapon damage, which is the amount of displayed damage on your weapon (simple enough).

200 damage weapon:
200 x 6.22 = 1244

you add 100% when multiplying, or add tha base at the end and use the real percent

(200 x 5.22) + 200 = 1244
same thing...the 100% stands for the weapon itself.

now, the way the game does damage is it adds up all the multipliers, then multiplies base damage. this is where the display bug comes in.

normal multiplication:
[(1.60 + 1.40 + 1.12 + .90 + .20 + 1.00) x (200)] = 1244

display multiplication:
[(1.40 + 1.12 + .90 + .20 + 1.00) x (200)(1.60 + 1.00)] = 2402

the difference is that the double swing synergy bonus is not added in with the other multipliers, but rather it multiplies the base seperately. by increasing the damage of the base by 160%, the remaining damage mods have a huge impact on the displayed damage. in this case it is roughly a factor of 2:1.

now, whats this got to do with war travs? war trav damage is added here:
[(1.40 + 1.12 + .90 + .20 + 1.00) x (200 + 15 min + 25 max)(1.60 + 1.00)] = 2642

now, normal equation:
[(1.60 + 1.40 + 1.12 + .90 + .20 + 1.00) x (200 + 15 min + 25 max)] = 1368

2642 - 2402 = 240 damage (displayed war trav damage)
1368 - 1244 = 124 damage (actual war trav damage)

you can see that with the display bug and this hypothetical damage multiplier, the war trav damage is roughly half of what is displayed.

in the case of 1244 damage and 124 added damage, you can also see that the number is almost exactly 10%, which is less than the 15% deadly strike added by gores. deadly strike multiplies your final damage, so it would add 1244 x .15 = 186 damage on average (though it triggers irregularly).

perhaps the most common sense way to explain what is going on is like this:

you have 10 apples. you have two baskets. you fill the two baskets with apples. when all the apples are in the baskets, you multiply the basket totals.

1 apple stands for your weapon, and it always goes in the left basket. all 9 other apples stand for damage multipliers. how do you get the most damage when you multiply the two baskets?

1 apple in left basket, 9 apples in right basket = 10 apples
1 x 9 = 9

2 apples in left basket, 8 apples in right basket = 10 apples
2 x 8 = 16

5 apples in left basket, 5 apples in left basket = 10 apples
5 x 5 = 25

same number of apples, but when you make both sides equal you get a larger multiplied total. this is the display damage bug of throwing...the damage mod from your synergy is being added to the 'left basket' of your base damage. the mods dont change but they way they are totaled is changed. apples suck, i should have used steaks...yummm.

in the case of warshrikes, because the base damage is poor and the deadly strike is high, you may prefer war travs. 200 damage is a very high estimate for throwing weapon base damage and as base damage weakens war travs become progressively more useful compared to deadly strike from gores.

this thread sums it up nicely also
http://forums.rpgforums.net/showthread.php?t=199158&highlight=throwing+damage+displayed

this thread is saying that both synergy and mastery are put at the end of the equation. i thought it was just synergy. in either case, dont trust the listed damage in your character window, it is much higher than your real damage. do the math out if you want to see how much damage you really do. add up all your damage multipliers and then multiply by the base weapon damage.

[ReVolution]

*long *** post*
you are such a nerd.

[acceleration turkey]

you are such a nerd.

its pretty basic math...and i have explained it and seen it explained before, so it didnt take me very long to write. enjoy the free advice.

[zei_incarnate]

Acceleration Turkey, let's say displayed dmg with war travellers is incorrect like you say it might be. Would you say then that gores is a better choice? Would certain factors affect this? My barb, for example has 441 dex, a lot more than you used in your example. Would the additional ed% from this help push war traveller over gores? Just wondering.

My barbs displayed dmg with war travellers is 3196-6477 (with might and heart of wolverine). Without war travellers its 2669-5592. How much of this difference is real? And what about the +10 max from razortail? Same deal as with war traveller?

Thanks if you can take the time to answer this.

[acceleration turkey]

Acceleration Turkey, let's say displayed dmg with war travellers is incorrect like you say it might be. Would you say then that gores is a better choice? Would certain factors affect this? My barb, for example has 441 dex, a lot more than you used in your example. Would the additional ed% from this help push war traveller over gores? Just wondering.

My barbs displayed dmg with war travellers is 3196-6477 (with might and heart of wolverine). Without war travellers its 2669-5592. How much of this difference is real? And what about the +10 max from razortail? Same deal as with war traveller?

Thanks if you can take the time to answer this.

its the same bug, no matter how much dex you have. 441 dex = +330% damage. with skills and auras you are probably talking maybe +1000% damage total at most. wartravs add 20 damage (15 min and 25 max), so 20 x 11 = 220 damage added (11 = +1000%), which is way short of the 500-1000 damage your display is advertising.

razortail would be the same thing...it is multiplied by the sum of your damage mods from skills, auras and stats. 10 max damage @ 1000% is 100 max, so 50 avg damage added.

to make war trav's add 500-1000 damage you would need +4000% damage, which is not even possible with the overlap of the following maxed auras:

might
fanat
heart of wolverine
concentrate

i actually did use war travs for a while with my thrower. i wanted the extra strength because i was trying to tweak my life (as usual), and the damage was good too. but gores are better i would say, even if the crushing blow only works at 1/2 effectiveness for a ranged attack. i ended up using gores once i had enough other strength gear to make war travs obsolete with my setup.