Nos Coil Vs Verdungos

[Grandar King of Trolls]

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Nosferatu's Coil
Vampirefang Belt
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63-63 Defense
16 Slots
14 Durability
50 Str Required
Item Level: 68
Clvl req: 51
+15 to Strength
+2 Mana after each kill
Slows Target by 10%
10% Life stolen per hit
+10% Increased Attack Speed
-3 to Light Radius
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Verdungo's Hearty Cord
Mithril Coil
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56-63 Defense
108.3-153.6
16 Slots
16 Durability
106 Str Required
Item Level: 71
Clvl req: 63
+(90-140)% Enhanced Defense
+(30-40) to Vitality
+(100-120) to Maximum Stamina
10% Faster Hit Recovery
Damage Reduced by (10-15)%
Replenish Life +(10 - 13) ((0.977 - 1.270) Life Per Second)
======================

Here is the rest of my gear I am planning on using:
Armor: Duress
Helm: AF
Ammy: Highlord's
Ring1: Raven Frost
Ring2: Manald or really good dual leech
Boots: Goblin Toes (25% crushing blow)
Gloves: Steelrends
Shield: SS
Weapon: DC

I'm going to be Hal's conc barb w/zerk hybrid intended for pure party play only. Party is me, avenger pally, meteorb sorc, and hammerdin.

By the calculator, it takes the DC (weapon speed 0) 75ias to hit 10 frames, which is my goal. Between itself (40ias) and the highloard's (20ias) I still need 15ias to hit 75ias. Now, the 10ias on the nos coil isn't going to help at all there, so that part is useless to me. I'm going to need a 15ias jewel somewhere.

I am planning on Amn'ing the DC to get more ll. Ideally, I would like to ber it, but I don't see that happening. Amn gives me 7ll plus 5ll (all I have on my AF) = 12ll in normal. With nos coil, that will be 22ll.

The 15str on the nos coil gives me 15vit I can save. Whereas the Verdungos gives me 30-40vit, making it the winner there by at 15-25vit. And it has the fhr as well.

So, the trade-off is:

Nos:
10% ll
10% slows target

Verd:
10-15% damage reduction
15-25 vit
10% fhr

Or should I just go for a string of ears?

What do you guys think? I can see leech being a big problem for me later on.

Thanks guys. :buddies:

[acceleration turkey]

a few things:

nos coil gives 5-7% life leech i believe, so 10% is out of the question.

as you said, the good reason to grab nos's is if you are sure you can get an additional frame on a swing skill like frenzy, conc or berserk, particularly if you already have all your slots maxed out and cant work a 15% jewel into your setup. seems to me that if you shael the DC and wear highlords, you are at 10 frames, meaning you wont need to use a socket for 15% jewel at all, nor will you need the 10% from nos's. i cant imagine why you would want to amn it.

keep in mind that base point in vitality and +vitality are different things. the 30-40 vitality from verdungos is 120-160 hp (x4), because +vitality is not modified by battle orders. putting 15 raw points into vitality because nos's gives you 15 strength gives 60 life (x4), which can then be more than doubled by battle orders. level 30 BO gives +122% life, so 60 x 2.22 = 133 life. so, nos's gives you around the same life as verdungos (assuming you have decent BO and assuming you are trying to minimize base points in strength). the 15 in strength boosts your damage in addition.

much like nos's 10% ias, verdungo's 10% fhr should only be sought if you think you can hit another frame of recovery. barb frames are:

fhr%/frames
0/9
7/8
15/7
27/6
48/5
86/4
200/3

looks like you have arreats and duress, so 30 + 40 fhr makes 70. another 10 from verdungos would make 80, which would put you in good shape to get to 86 with an 8% large charm or two 5% small charms. though i would say that hit recovery is a lot more useful for a frenzy or berserk barb, since with conc even if a hit gets past your armor it will most likely get picked up by your shield, and even if you get hit, conc is not interruptible. but since you say youll be using berserk, you may want to seek the 4 frame hit recovery.

i guess what it comes down to is if you think 5-7% life leech and 10% slow target will keep you safer than 10-15% damage reduction. it would be pretty nice to round out 50% damage reduction if you had a perfect 15% verdungos to go with your 35% SS, but i think nos's is a cooler item (i like slow target).

in the end i think that the more you end up using berserk, the more you will want verdungos, because the hit recovery and damage reduction will become more important, and you cant use nos's life leech with berserk anyway.

[Grandar King of Trolls]

Wow, that is exactly the kind of answer I was looking for. Thanks a lot, I can tell you spent some time on that.

I'm thinking for fhr, I may just go with charms like you suggested. The reason I was going to amn the DC was because I am worried about having enough ll in hell. I have a nos coil, and I will get a string and see how that goes. If I have any trouble, I may still go with the verdungos. It really is a tough call. At any rate, I'm giving to nos coild to a pally friend of mine.

I'm looking at the string just because it has ll and %dr. Pretty much the go between in the setup. It isn't the best of any world, but it gives me what I want. Same reason I went with goblin toes over wartravs and gore riders.

Anyway, thanks a lot, that was great information.

[Halciet]

FHR is one of the last things you should really consider when selecting gear for a conc barb, thanks to the simple fact that you can't be interrupted period.

All and all, I think the coil is a great belt, and I used it a long while before I got my Verdungo's. The leech, str, and speed decrease are awesome mods. The reason I chose Verdun's over it is the damage reduction (which, with Stormshield, will take you to max), the large defense, and the nice life boost. As was mentioned, the life doesn't get multiplied by BO and such, but an extra 120-160 life is always appreciated.

Good luck with the build though mate, I hope it treats you well. You'll prove an excellent addition to your party, thanks to your massive tanking capabilities. Just make sure you get Taunt and Battle Cry, and it'll be gravy.

-Hal

[Grandar King of Trolls]

Just make sure you get Taunt and Battle Cry, and it'll be gravy.

-Hal

Already got them hot-keyed. :) Along with berserk, leap attack, howl, bo, shout, battle commands, and hork. I get confused sometimes and I try to shout at gloams. :scratch:

Actually, battlecry has gotten less and less necessary with an avenger with me. But sometimes he wanders off and I can't hit a thing without it.

Oh, and by the way, I'm using a 4xshaeled runemaster and hitting 10 frames in my early 70's in hell. Damage on that is pretty weak. I still do under 4k damage with my might merc and concentration from our party's hammerdin. And that is with maxed conc and bo. I'm working on axe mastery now, it's in the the teens.

Anyway, thanks for the input, Hal. I have a quick question for you. As you can tell from my gear setup, I am going to have mana leech problems. I seriously can't think of anything to fix it besides holding onto my manald heal. Do you have any suggestions?

And as to life leech... I will have 5% from my AF and say about 7% from the string of ears I'll be getting. Do you think 12%ll will be enough in hell? I will amn (or pskull) my death cleaver until I can get a ber for it, that is for certain... but do you think I can do ok w/out the amn (or pskull)?

[Oversized_D2player]

Just my 2 cents.. swap the Goblin toes for Gore Riders.. IMO much better boots

[Halciet]

Gran - conc builds don't require a huge amount of leech, since you don't get hit very often and your skill only uses 2 mana per swing. Any small amount of mana leech will be fine; my conc barb only has the 7% from BotD. As for life leech, whatever you can get is great. I have 15% or so from BotD and 5 from arreat's, and that's all. You can always try equipping something like Drac's if you find yourself in a lot of trouble, or even go with the Nos coil as you mentioned for a bit more. It's not a huge worry though, you should be fine overall. Just try and find yourself a mana leech ring to wear until you manage to get a BotD or such.

-Hal

[Grandar King of Trolls]

This build is never going to have a botd. I just plain can't afford it. I could ebay it, but that just isn't as satisfying. I'll use my runemaster until I can blood craft something decent or I get a death cleaver. Death cleaver is going to be my end game weapon.

As to using gore rider's over the goblin toes. Yes, I know that gore riders are overall better boots, but my deadly strike is going to be 95% percent between the death cleaver and the highlord's, so I'm looking at maxing out crushing blow next. That is why I'm going with duress, steel rends, and goblin toes. If I can ever get one, I will ber my death cleaver, but I'm not overly hopeful.

What I have here is the (semi) poor man's barbarian build. No uber runewords, just good uniques and a duress. I will have 95% deadly strike and either 45% or 65% crushing blow, depending on whether I can get that ber rune in my death cleaver or not. I'll hit 10 frames and have a lvl 30 or so BO with decent defense. I'm aiming for a 3 socket archon with over 500 defense on it to put duress into.

Thanks for the points on leech, Hal. I'll not worry about it much. I do have a 2% ml dual leech ring laying around and I'll give it a try to see how it does.