New dueling league on west

[mepersoner]

The channel is op pvpwest. In order to be added to the bot /w *gh_sol, *gh_solly, *inf-badguy, *zerius, *mepersoner or *mepersoner_end

The rules went through thorough testing before being written. Changes will be made as the dueling league progresses through voting by all those in the league.


Basic legit dueling rules:

All duels take place in Nightmare.

No item which grants the Slows Target effect is allowed on any character that duels by dealing physical damage.


No hacked items, such as the Schaeffer's Hammer jewels, all Ith
de-runeworded items, and all other obviously hacked items, e.g. the Stones of Jordan with the stats of the Oculus.


No bugged items, such as the 500% cold absorb circlet, and the 64% life leech amulet.


Only one item that grants an elemental absorb type is allowed.


All items which grant a chance to cast a curse on striking are banned.


A maximum of 200 poison damage is from gear and charms.


Leaving the Blood Moor during a duel is considered a loss, except for prebuffing.


Version 1.08 unique items are not allowed.


No use of Shrines, Wells, or any kind of potion is allowed.


No mercenaries or minions that cannot be cast in town are allowed.




Rules:

No class is allowed to teleport unless otherwise stated.

No class is allowed use of warcries unless otherwise stated.



Class rules

Amazons:

Amazons may utilize a maximum of 150% FRW.


Druids:
Elemental tree skills druids are allowed teleport.

Any druid using torando may not use any summons, discluding their spirit.


Paladin:
Any paladin utilizing hammers may not have more then 18 damage reduced at any time.


Assassin:
Any trapper utilizing a high damage trap can not have more then 125 r/w with BOS.


Barbarians:

May use any amount of increased speed with 150 r/w.

Barbarians may use warcries.


Necro:

Necros may use a maximum of 150% FRW.


Sorceress:

Sorceresses may use a maximum of 10% DR.

Sorceresses may teleport.



Feel free to leave questions and comments.

[Relativity]

Rules:

No class is allowed to teleport unless otherwise stated.

So you're saying sorceress' aren't allowed to teleport? Lol, good luck with that.

[jajaboo(pO)]

dont make me spell it out foryou , son



read more

[mepersoner]

So you're saying sorceress' aren't allowed to teleport? Lol, good luck with that.
No, they can.

[Relativity]

dont make me spell it out foryou , son

Ya good thing he edited it in, son

P.S. what about the use of items with charges mepersoner?

[Rauth]

This is nonladder only right?

I have a few questions.

1. Any amount of max res gear is allowed or does that count as absorb as well? 95 res pretty much kills any elem build without using any absorb.

2. Giving ele druids teleport may make them too good despite banning summons. On the other hand, I can think of a few anti-druid builds that don't require teleport. Ww sin, trapper, a well played lightning sorc, and...uh...I'm out. Maybe a fc cap or something would work.

3. I guess ravens count as summons as well? Would feel so naked without my bear protecting me from stuff.


4. High damage traps should probably be specified. Some hybrids can get fairly high traps(not 10-12k or anything) and still have a damn good alternate attack.


5. Going to ban bone prison? Its pretty damn cheap vs people without teleport. Bone wall could also get annoying if spammed or even placed stragetically.

6. The dueling league needs an awesome name.

[Relativity]

No bugged items, such as the 500% cold absorb circlet, and the 64% life leech amulet.

Do marrow-walks count as a bugged item?

[mepersoner]

1. Any amount of max res gear is allowed or does that count as absorb as well? 95 res pretty much kills any elem build without using any absorb.

At the moment, yes, any amount of max res gear is allowed.


2. Giving ele druids teleport may make them too good despite banning summons. On the other hand, I can think of a few anti-druid builds that don't require teleport. Ww sin, trapper, a well played lightning sorc, and...uh...I'm out. Maybe a fc cap or something would work.
Hammerdin, necromancer... without summons druids are much easier to kill. On the other hand, can you think of a strong druid build when not using teleport? Shapeshifting druids are underpowered, fire druids are underpowered, and wind druids can't hit in a high FRW environment without teleport.


3. I guess ravens count as summons as well? Would feel so naked without my bear protecting me from stuff.
I'm sure that can be discussed, I would guess that the rule could easily be changed to say "no wolves or bears will be allowed on druids who teleport".


4. High damage traps should probably be specified. Some hybrids can get fairly high traps(not 10-12k or anything) and still have a damn good alternate attack.
I agree. Any build that uses more than 1 point into traps would probably be the best solution, but it's up for discussion.


5. Going to ban bone prison? Its pretty damn cheap vs people without teleport. Bone wall could also get annoying if spammed or even placed stragetically.
That was completely overlooked as far as I can remember, and should most definitely be discussed.


6. The dueling league needs an awesome name.
Haha, pvpwest is a good name for now. :)


Do marrow-walks count as a bugged item?
No, they do not. Bugged items are items with stats that would not normally be able to spawn.

[Rauth]

Now that I think about it, druids are pretty screwed without teleport. But they will be without a doubt one of the best duelers in this league. This might cause some resentment from people using classes who cannot teleport(Barbs will be mad I'm sure).

Another thing, some sorcs will just be too fast to hit with ANYTHING. That combined with insanely high damage elem attacks might be annoying. Since any amount of max res is allowed sorcs are limited a bit but still...they just teleport wayyy too fast. Maybe I'm overestimating their speed a bit, I'm not sure. I guess there are a few anti-sorc builds though.

I think bone prison should be banned outright. There isn't really a nice way to use it. Bone wall could be used without abusing it I guess. Just no spamming and it would be fine.

Marrowwalks were put in the game on purpose and should be used(I even think blizz intended the synergy "bug" but that hasn't be proven either way to my knowledge). Without teleport there are plenty of classes to take down a marrow nec anyway.

Are duped items/charms allowed? I mean like 3/20/20s, 20/17s and the rare rings/amys/boots. We all know runes were duped but you can't limit them without also limiting the legit ones. Personally I like using a inventory of charms I've found myself. It leaves room for constant improvement. But thats just me. Some people like having perfect charms.


Ok I'm done for tonight.

[mepersoner]

Duped charms are the main thing under consideration to be banned as far as dupes are concerned at this moment.

[hipps]

Sorceress:

Sorceresses may use a maximum of 10% DR.

Sorceresses may teleport.




aw mannn sol said 18% when i asked him!?!?!?!!

[fugitive alien2]

1. allow tele for all
2. allow warcries
3. don't limit dr for anyone
3. allow 1.08 dupes

i think what people are looking for most is pub dueling EXCEPT WITH GOOD MANNERS AND OCCASIONAL TEAM DUELS. this on the other hand is just another restrictive clan-honor ruleset except with unkillable teleporting wind druids and sorcs. what's the point?

jar jar, if it's 18 dr you can give my seat away, i won't be using it ^^

[HandofElysium]

1. allow tele for all
2. allow warcries
3. don't limit dr for anyone
3. allow 1.08 dupes

i think what people are looking for most is pub dueling EXCEPT WITH GOOD MANNERS AND OCCASIONAL TEAM DUELS. this on the other hand is just another restrictive clan-honor ruleset except with unkillable teleporting wind druids and sorcs. what's the point?

jar jar, if it's 18 dr you can give my seat away, i won't be using it ^^

Then if thats the case there should be a new Clan/Community.

I say call it "FightClub"

Rule #1 There is no rules
Rule #2 No one talks about FightClub
Rule #3 No one talks about FightClub

[fugitive alien2]

i'm all for rules - no hax, no bm, no shrines, one absorb per element etc., but without tele for all this is just a very close variation of clan honor and i don't see the point - other than allowing mep's fire druid to tele ><

[soulesschild]

agreed with FA. wind druids with oak sage is enough to pretty much pwn everyone.

[Module88]

I agree. Any build that uses more than 1 point into traps would probably be the best solution, but it's up for discussion.

But then the assassin wouldn't be able to use +skills gear without being considered a high damage trapper in that case.


Only one item that grants an elemental absorb type is allowed.

Surely this doesn't mean you can't use tgods and raven frost? That's two absorb items, and right now it seems like only one absorb item is allowed.


As for windy's having teleport... With life from Oak sage, it's pretty much a pubby druidy minus a few summons, while the rest of the classes can't really defend so well against it without teleport. With teleport, the druid may as well teleport on or near everyone, put them into stunlock, and kill them. I mean it can also absorb a lot with cyclone armor, pretty much putting the elemental builds out of the picture, and anything that isn't elemental, (necros, melee characters, hammerdins with low dr) can be put into fhr or simply be hit by multiple high damage tornadoes.

[Speederländer]

1. allow tele for all
2. allow warcries
3. don't limit dr for anyone
3. allow 1.08 dupes

i think what people are looking for most is pub dueling EXCEPT WITH GOOD MANNERS AND OCCASIONAL TEAM DUELS. this on the other hand is just another restrictive clan-honor ruleset except with unkillable teleporting wind druids and sorcs. what's the point?

jar jar, if it's 18 dr you can give my seat away, i won't be using it ^^

I agree 100%.

Allow tele for everyone. This is really a big one. Many classes and variants now use it very effectively. Banning it is arbitary and harkens back to a period of D2 which no longer exists.

Allow all non-hacked/non-bugged items. You allow high runes, you should allow 1.08's. This has always been inexplicable to me with CH. They allow some widely/massively duped items but not others. Allow all items that can theoretically drop in the game or could drop in a previous patch. Ban items with bugged or hacked stats. It's easier to police and makes sense logically.

I would even go one step further and put the duels in hell but you can't have everything.

In any event, set yourself APART from CH. You are just cannibalizing occupied bandwidth otherwise. I would like to participate, but I have built my various assassins around teleporting and developed dueling techniques that incorporate it. Many people that do lots of public duels have done the same (though not all).

I think a well mannered variation of the public dueling environment that limits over-absorb, restricts potting, encourages team dueling, etc. gives you the most distinction from CH and addresses many of the complaints about CH at the same time.

[mepersoner]

1. allow tele for all
2. allow warcries
3. don't limit dr for anyone
3. allow 1.08 dupes

i think what people are looking for most is pub dueling EXCEPT WITH GOOD MANNERS AND OCCASIONAL TEAM DUELS. this on the other hand is just another restrictive clan-honor ruleset except with unkillable teleporting wind druids and sorcs. what's the point?

jar jar, if it's 18 dr you can give my seat away, i won't be using it ^^The only suggestion I disagree with of yours is the 1.08 dupes (of course since we're allowing all other dupes...), but I'm not the only person who we're trying to please here.

No it isn't, as I said, the rules were tested. They well be changed as time goes on, and I would guess they will probably change a whole lot in the beginning depending on what the duelers want...

[jajaboo(pO)]

these rules arent under discussion, people, we're still in the testing phase anyway.




fa hey stop calling me jar jar


weka_young

[mepersoner]

Surely this doesn't mean you can't use tgods and raven frost? That's two absorb items, and right now it seems like only one absorb item is allowed.

No, one item of each element of absorb may be used at a time.

[mepersoner]

these rules arent under discussion, people, we're still in the testing phase anyway.

Yes they are.

[Speederländer]

The only suggestion I disagree with of yours is the 1.08 dupes (of course since we're allowing all other dupes...), but I'm not the only person who we're trying to please here.

Just a comment on this....

BotD's are, for all intents and purposes, dupes. 99% of all high runes are dupes. All of the big runeword items are nothing more than dupes. You dismiss a very sound argument in an off-hand fashion. I KNOW this has been beaten to a bloody pulp in the CH forum. So it kind of sucks to start the discussion here, again. It just seems to me that a logically consistent position would be to disallow bugged and hacked items and ignore all other items that have legit 1.08, 1.09, or 1.10 stats. You are allowing and condoning MASSIVE dupe use now. Yet, like CH, you seem to want the patina of "legitness" to be preserved so you arbitrarily ban some small group of heavily duped items. This position on dupes just makes no sense. BotD is an insane runeword. So is enigma. Yet both are allowed and both are dupes. I absolutely do NOT say ban dupes. Your league would be DOA. I say drop the pretenses of a "legit" dueling league (if that indeed is what you are after) as defined by being against the use of dupes. Ban hacked/bugged items and be done with it.

[jajaboo(pO)]

The allowance of certain dupes isnt based on our morales


at all



its just for popularity

[Speederländer]

The allowance of certain dupes isnt based on our morales
at all
its just for popularity

You fail to address the core of the argument. You allow a huge number of dupes (the major 1.10 runewords) yet arbitrarily ban others. Why not just allow them all and ban the bugged items. You say you only allow certain dupes because they are popular. Actually, duped runes are the basis of the economy and the 1.10 runewords are fundamental to the majority of builds out there today. Even Garbad's barb, that he was proudly posting on the CH forum yesterday, is built around dupes. The logic used on this stuff just totally escapes me. I've never seen anything so 100% arbitrary in my life.

[mepersoner]

You fail to address the core of the argument. You allow a huge number of dupes (the major 1.10 runewords) yet arbitrarily ban others. Why not just allow them all and ban the bugged items. You say you only allow certain dupes because they are popular. Actually, duped runes are the basis of the economy and the 1.10 runewords are fundamental to the majority of builds out there today. Even Garbad's barb, that he was proudly posting on the CH forum yesterday, is built around dupes. The logic used on this stuff just totally escapes me. I've never seen anything so 100% arbitrary in my life.
You're not understanding. It isn't about them being dupes. It's just a ban against certain items. We didn't say 1.08 dupes aren't allowed, you may have a legit 1.08 item, it's still banned. 1.08 uniques are banned, period. Nothing to do with the fact they're dupes.

[Speederländer]

You're not understanding. It isn't about them being dupes. It's just a ban against certain items. We didn't say 1.08 dupes aren't allowed, you may have a legit 1.08 item, it's still banned. 1.08 uniques are banned, period. Nothing to do with the fact they're dupes.

There are three reasons to ban an item:

1. It's a dupe and dupes are against the rules.
2. It's vastly overpowered compared to all other items and must be outlawed to keep dueling balanced.
3. It's a bugged item and bugged items are against the rules.

Well, 1.08's aren't bugged so that eliminates #3. They certainly aren't vastly over-powered compared to such items as enigma, BotD, etc. So #2 is out.....unless an .08 valk or an .08 WF with 35 extra dex is considered a balance breaker compared to a BotD on a desyncing charger. You say it isn't #1. So what are the reasons?

[AndyChrono]

There are three reasons to ban an item:

1. It's a dupe and dupes are against the rules.
2. It's vastly overpowered compared to all other items and must be outlawed to keep dueling balanced.
3. It's a bugged item and bugged items are against the rules.

Well, 1.08's aren't bugged so that eliminates #3. They certainly aren't vastly over-powered compared to such items as enigma, BotD, etc. So #2 is out.....unless an .08 valk or an .08 WF with 35 extra dex is considered a balance breaker compared to a BotD on a desyncing charger. You say it isn't #1. So what are the reasons?

Do you know what the stats are on 1.08 Arkaine's Valor and 1.08 Harlequin's Crest? You can have around a 10k life barb WITHOUT using druid morphs and/or oak. 1.08 Grandfather can also be added to this group although its damage is lower than BotD and its slower so that balances it out somewhat. Windforce wasn't nerfed much from 1.08 to 1.09.

Most uniques in general were nerfed rather hard from 1.08-1.09. Amazingly enough, windforce was probably the one unique that wasn't beat down hard with the nerf stick.

[Omikron8]

When 1.10 was released ruststorm deleted almost all of the 1.08 unique from the b.net realms. I have never seen a 1.08 valor or shako or GF again but a few valk wings remain.

[Speederländer]

Do you know what the stats are on 1.08 Arkaine's Valor and 1.08 Harlequin's Crest? You can have around a 10k life barb WITHOUT using druid morphs and/or oak. 1.08 Grandfather can also be added to this group although its damage is lower than BotD and its slower so that balances it out somewhat. Windforce wasn't nerfed much from 1.08 to 1.09.

Most uniques in general were nerfed rather hard from 1.08-1.09. Amazingly enough, windforce was probably the one unique that wasn't beat down hard with the nerf stick.

The only things left after the ruststorm are valks and windforces. Have you seen 08 shakos or valors? I haven't. Not on any trade channels, not in any trade forums, not in any dueling games. In any event, ban the .08 shakos then. If that one person out there still has an 08 shako, then address it.

[shredderator]

you know all people want is a 1.10 gimmeitam
no bugged, no overpowered 1.8 (arkane, shako, wf [is kb banned?], gerkes, and baranor.)
i say allow classic dupes they are cheap enough that everyone can get them anyways. same goes for 3/20/20, 20/17, 3//20/5 whatever. dupes even the playing field.... a half decent dueler will be pricey no matter what, and thigns like CH just make the rich vs poor thing so much more noticeable (good legit melee charms are 100x more expensive comepared to 3/20/20)

i think tele on all is good, but ill have to do some testing myself... i know my necro would be terrible if he was stuck running while a wind druid can just land on top of me....

btw add *ib_asian, *aznzrgood, *jachildren, *banndsteel

thanks

[Module88]

You fail to address the core of the argument. You allow a huge number of dupes (the major 1.10 runewords) yet arbitrarily ban others. Why not just allow them all and ban the bugged items. You say you only allow certain dupes because they are popular. Actually, duped runes are the basis of the economy and the 1.10 runewords are fundamental to the majority of builds out there today. Even Garbad's barb, that he was proudly posting on the CH forum yesterday, is built around dupes. The logic used on this stuff just totally escapes me. I've never seen anything so 100% arbitrary in my life.

1.1 Runewords? That'd make any runeword with a high rune a likely dupe, whether it is or not. In that stance, you may as well ban everything but less than spectacular items and no hard to find items, because "so many of them" are dupes, EVEN though some might be legit. So you are stuck with what?

[Module88]

The only things left after the ruststorm are valks and windforces. Have you seen 08 shakos or valors? I haven't. Not on any trade channels, not in any trade forums, not in any dueling games. In any event, ban the .08 shakos then. If that one person out there still has an 08 shako, then address it.

Well I can't say that's a very good excuse. If you had an 08 valor or shako left, would you sell it? In any case, there are hundreds of thousands of D2 players playing on Battle.net, and a lot of veterans are lurking and just refreshing accounts and not actively playing. Do you think that there is a distinct possibility of a legit 08 valor or shako? How could you have duped it if no one had it to dupe in the first place?

[Rauth]

Are any builds THAT dependant on 1.08 items? Just leave it be. Discuss more important things like the teleport balance issues. You can always argue about 1.08 crap later.

If only sorcs and druids are allowed teleport, they will pretty much beat everyone else. Having no warcries and summons DOES make a windy a whole lot easier to kill though. The sorcs will be the real problem since having no warcries does hardly anything to them.

There is nothing in the rules about not having dupes. If you ban dupes, you are banning everything anyone hasn't PERSONALLY found. Hell, someone could have duped a isenhart armor and you would have no way of knowing. And what about the people who actualy have found high runes? I have found a few ohms, a vex(nm baal run), and a sur myself in about a years time. They definitely are found.

[Speederländer]

1.1 Runewords? That'd make any runeword with a high rune a likely dupe, whether it is or not. In that stance, you may as well ban everything but less than spectacular items and no hard to find items, because "so many of them" are dupes, EVEN though some might be legit. So you are stuck with what?

You completely misunderstand my point.

1. 99% of runeword made with high runes are made with duped runes and hence are effectively dupes. Just because you slap your duped runes in a non-duped ethereal zerker doesn't impact the real nature of the item created; that of being, for all intents and purposes, a dupe.
2. You can NOT ban these runewords as you would no one participate. Further, banning those rune words is just plain silly.

I am not saying ban dupes, on the contrary, I say if it isn't a bugged item with impossible stats, allow it. Period.

[jajaboo(pO)]

you know all people want is a 1.10 gimmeitam
no bugged, no overpowered 1.8 (arkane, shako, wf [is kb banned?], gerkes, and baranor.)
i say allow classic dupes they are cheap enough that everyone can get them anyways. same goes for 3/20/20, 20/17, 3//20/5 whatever. dupes even the playing field.... a half decent dueler will be pricey no matter what, and thigns like CH just make the rich vs poor thing so much more noticeable (good legit melee charms are 100x more expensive comepared to 3/20/20)

i think tele on all is good, but ill have to do some testing myself... i know my necro would be terrible if he was stuck running while a wind druid can just land on top of me....

btw add *ib_asian, *aznzrgood, *jachildren, *banndsteel

thanks

all those accounts are added o_O

[shredderator]

all those accounts are added o_O
thanks


is this inf sol or zerius? (guessing zerius)

[Dimoak]

1. allow tele for all
2. allow warcries
3. don't limit dr for anyone
3. allow 1.08 dupes

i think what people are looking for most is pub dueling EXCEPT WITH GOOD MANNERS AND OCCASIONAL TEAM DUELS. this on the other hand is just another restrictive clan-honor ruleset except with unkillable teleporting wind druids and sorcs. what's the point?

jar jar, if it's 18 dr you can give my seat away, i won't be using it ^^
I Agree. (wordssss)

[Rauth]

Warcries plz.

Not sure about teleport.

Dr limit doesn't make alot of sense to me. Maybe explain why would help.

This is 1.10. Leave the 1.08 crap in the past with all the bugs.

I really like the team dueling. I can get 1v1 in most pub games but getting a good team duel going is impossible.

Good manners and a restriction of bugged stuff/hacks is mostly what people want I think.

[jajaboo(pO)]

thanks


is this inf sol or zerius? (guessing zerius)



zerius is zerius


i cant say who i am

[Rauth]

i cant say who i am

Hmmm.



The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 10 characters.

[mepersoner]

1.08 items are rare and can no longer be found, therefore cannot be used by everyone, therefore are banned. There are 1.09 items that can longer be found as well, but they're weaker 1.10 items. If 1.08 items were still findable they would be allowed, but they aren't, and there is nothing better than some of them like from 1.09 to 1.10 (like for a bad example, aldurs weapon is exactly the same, but with 3 sockets now, the 1.09 version is fine then, however, 1.08 valks cannot be found now, and as heavily duped, and therefore not everyone can gain access to them now).


I'd be more concerned about the teleporting myself guys. *cough* allow it for all */cough* The other mods are going to hate me for that comment. :cool:

[Garbad_the_Weak]

i cant say who i am
Nice Avatar. I wonder if it means anything.... :thumbsup:

@Mepersoner

So that means 5% runwalk charms are banned right?

Garbad

[mepersoner]

Does it say that in the rules?

5% FRW charms are mass duped and therefore still accessible, most .08 items that were mass duped have been deleted.

Edit:


1.08 valks cannot be found now, and as heavily duped, and therefore not everyone can gain access to them now).There's supposed to be an aren't right between and and as before heavily duped.

[fugitive alien2]

not that i care in relation to this league, but out of curiosity does anyone really know for sure that 08 shako still boosts extended life (bo/oak) or would it just boost base life in 1.10?

[Frisky]

zerius is zerius


i cant say who i am

Nice again on the subtleties JarJar

[mepersoner]

not that i care in relation to this league, but out of curiosity does anyone really know for sure that 08 shako still boosts extended life (bo/oak) or would it just boost base life in 1.10?
I didn't think it boosted extended life in .09....

[Xircon]

When 1.10 was released ruststorm deleted almost all of the 1.08 unique from the b.net realms. I have never seen a 1.08 valor or shako or GF again but a few valk wings remain.

Huh? I have seen shakos, gazes, and valors, but not GF's. I have also see many types of amulets with +2 skills and only level 26 required.

[dkay]

hmmmm.... so in the meantime.. while people are signing up.. wat are the solid rules again? it seems like theres been a couple changes from the original post by mep

[LordDrift]

so basically another ch, but sorcs can tele?

[Module88]

You completely misunderstand my point.

1. 99% of runeword made with high runes are made with duped runes and hence are effectively dupes. Just because you slap your duped runes in a non-duped ethereal zerker doesn't impact the real nature of the item created; that of being, for all intents and purposes, a dupe.


And you misunderstood mine. If anything I pointed out that all runewords in your judgement, legit or not, are dupes. Therefore, all of that is completely irrelevant. Sure, you could allow everything that doesn't have bugged stats, but then you may as well play in pub with a pally having fana, hf, bo, bc, shout, defiance, life tap, ow, and anything else I forgot to mention. Rules? Sure. If you allow these rules, you'll probably get a lot of pub duelers anyway.

[Speederländer]

And you misunderstood mine. If anything I pointed out that all runewords in your judgement, legit or not, are dupes. Therefore, all of that is completely irrelevant.

All of WHAT is irrelevant??


Sure, you could allow everything that doesn't have bugged stats, but then you may as well play in pub with a pally having fana, hf, bo, bc, shout, defiance, life tap, ow, and anything else I forgot to mention. Rules? Sure. If you allow these rules, you'll probably get a lot of pub duelers anyway.

Where do I say you can't have exclusionary rules? Why do you ASSUME that by my advocating one position you can extrapolate me to another? Where do I say "anything goes"? I have argued for a few very specific allowances. You imply I am arguing for some sort of global "anything goes" rule set. That is misleading and not true. If you want to debate this issue with me, then debate the SPECIFICS of WHAT I ACTUALLY SAID. Otherwise you are just wasting my time and forum bandwidth.

[Speederländer]

so basically another ch, but sorcs can tele?

And that's precisely the problem, IMO.

[Rauth]

Less arguing about nothing and more helping determine fair rules plz.



I say allow tele and warcries for all classes(too unfair to allow some, but not others). Leave the absorb rule. Ban all bugged/1.08 crap. Leave the curse on strike rule. No dr limits. Thats all I can think of right now.

[Dimoak]

I stand with my original statement.

Let everyone tele.

Let everyone BO. (It just means longer duels, and barbs will still be hot **** because their bo is like 20 levels higher)

Ban Marrowwalks (good way to nerf necs)

Ban Grizzly/Wolves on tele ele druids.

Allow one absorb and one max resist item, as much resist stack as you want. No charged weapons like life tap or lower resist wands.

No decrepify, no slow.

Ban all HACKED items.

There, you have pubby games but with great duelers and mannered duels, as well as some team duels, and no MASS absorb.

[Module88]

All of WHAT is irrelevant??

Pretty much everything I quoted in that post.


Where do I say you can't have exclusionary rules? Why do you ASSUME that by my advocating one position you can extrapolate me to another? Where do I say "anything goes"? I have argued for a few very specific allowances. You imply I am arguing for some sort of global "anything goes" rule set. That is misleading and not true. If you want to debate this issue with me, then debate the SPECIFICS of WHAT I ACTUALLY SAID. Otherwise you are just wasting my time and forum bandwidth.

No, you ASSUMED that I was implying you meant anything goes. As far as I was concerned, you were all go for items that didn't have bugged/hacked mods, and I assumed that you would agree to the manner thing. Sadly, pub duelers aren't exactly the brightest people around. I'm not being misleading at all, you just assumed that I said something I didn't, and you may as well read the last two of your sentences before you look at me and say anything about what I "said."

[Module88]

I stand with my original statement.

Let everyone tele.

Let everyone BO. (It just means longer duels, and barbs will still be hot **** because their bo is like 20 levels higher)

Ban Marrowwalks (good way to nerf necs)

Ban Grizzly/Wolves on tele ele druids.

Allow one absorb and one max resist item, as much resist stack as you want. No charged weapons like life tap or lower resist wands.

No decrepify, no slow.

Ban all HACKED items.

There, you have pubby games but with great duelers and mannered duels, as well as some team duels, and no MASS absorb.

But the point is, pubby games suck. Again, if PvPWest allow those rules, it may as well not be a clan and spread the word to pub duelers (not that they will listen). Realistically, all this does is make things a little more "mannered" (since there aren't that many hacked items on the realms anyhow), and really, what kind of clan is that? There isn't anything special about it. All it is is a pub with people that might be nicer. So what? You can find nice duelers in pubs, and I can't imagine a lot of nice pub people being in the clan anyway with pub rules anyhow.

[Dimoak]

But the point is, pubby games suck. Again, if PvPWest allow those rules, it may as well not be a clan and spread the word to pub duelers (not that they will listen). Realistically, all this does is make things a little more "mannered" (since there aren't that many hacked items on the realms anyhow), and really, what kind of clan is that? There isn't anything special about it. All it is is a pub with people that might be nicer. So what? You can find nice duelers in pubs, and I can't imagine a lot of nice pub people being in the clan anyway with pub rules anyhow.
....So it has to have pointless rules just to be special?

It's basically a policed environment that has mannered duels and balances things out.

Realistically, it balances dueling and makes it more mannered, there is no nk, **** talking, mass absorb, slow, etc. Removing Marrows and Summons on druids helps nerf the top two builds.

Are you saying you wouldn't be happy with pubby games if everyone was pleasant to duel and the occasional mass absorber wasn't allowed?

Pubby games 'suck' because of the things my rule proposal bans.

[Rauth]

One thing a duel league gives that is damn near impossible to find in pubbys is fair team dueling. I like using my enigma and cta, but I want to try more 2v2s,3v3s,and 4v4s. 1v1 dueling is nice, but I've done it to death.

[mepersoner]

But the point is, pubby games suck. Again, if PvPWest allow those rules, it may as well not be a clan and spread the word to pub duelers (not that they will listen). Realistically, all this does is make things a little more "mannered" (since there aren't that many hacked items on the realms anyhow), and really, what kind of clan is that? There isn't anything special about it. All it is is a pub with people that might be nicer. So what? You can find nice duelers in pubs, and I can't imagine a lot of nice pub people being in the clan anyway with pub rules anyhow.
Have you ever dueled in a league?

[mepersoner]

I stand with my original statement.

Let everyone tele.

Let everyone BO. (It just means longer duels, and barbs will still be hot **** because their bo is like 20 levels higher)

Ban Marrowwalks (good way to nerf necs)

Ban Grizzly/Wolves on tele ele druids.

Allow one absorb and one max resist item, as much resist stack as you want. No charged weapons like life tap or lower resist wands.

No decrepify, no slow.

Ban all HACKED items.
I disagree with the ban grizzly/wolves and the no decrepify.

The rules posted are still the dueling rules at the moment. =)

[Dimoak]

I disagree with the ban grizzly/wolves and the no decrepify.

The rules posted are still the dueling rules at the moment. =)
Decrep is lame. Necs already have a big advantage over melee. Think mep.

Grizzly/Wolves are summon stack bug, without them wind druids won't be quite as dominating.

[Speederländer]

Pretty much everything I quoted in that post.

No, you ASSUMED that I was implying you meant anything goes. As far as I was concerned, you were all go for items that didn't have bugged/hacked mods, and I assumed that you would agree to the manner thing. Sadly, pub duelers aren't exactly the brightest people around. I'm not being misleading at all, you just assumed that I said something I didn't, and you may as well read the last two of your sentences before you look at me and say anything about what I "said."

You're incoherent AND insulting. Nice combo. So you're just implying I'm a "not so bright pub dueler"? Yeah, sure thing Sherlock.

[Speederländer]

Well I can't say that's a very good excuse. If you had an 08 valor or shako left, would you sell it? In any case, there are hundreds of thousands of D2 players playing on Battle.net, and a lot of veterans are lurking and just refreshing accounts and not actively playing. Do you think that there is a distinct possibility of a legit 08 valor or shako? How could you have duped it if no one had it to dupe in the first place?

What's not a "good excuse"? I say ban items selectively, that is all.

[Speederländer]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Module88
But the point is, pubby games suck. Again, if PvPWest allow those rules, it may as well not be a clan and spread the word to pub duelers (not that they will listen). Realistically, all this does is make things a little more "mannered" (since there aren't that many hacked items on the realms anyhow), and really, what kind of clan is that? There isn't anything special about it. All it is is a pub with people that might be nicer. So what? You can find nice duelers in pubs, and I can't imagine a lot of nice pub people being in the clan anyway with pub rules anyhow.

Have you ever dueled in a league?

I was wondering the same thing.

[Rauth]

Decrep is lame. Necs already have a big advantage over melee. Think mep.

Grizzly/Wolves are summon stack bug, without them wind druids won't be quite as dominating.

Decrep is suprisingly hard to use while a barb is chasing you. And the duration sucks. Any barb could just wait out the duration. Aiming decrep at a pally is pretty pointless. By the time you have your mouse on him you're already charged/zealed/smited.

The stack bug isn't that big a deal with everyone allowed to teleport. It would really only screw over a few builds that would be screwed either way. The main thing I use my summon for is bone necs who don't know about teeth and spear. They can also help against some melee, but are not really necessary.

[Module88]

....So it has to have pointless rules just to be special?

It's basically a policed environment that has mannered duels and balances things out.

Realistically, it balances dueling and makes it more mannered, there is no nk, **** talking, mass absorb, slow, etc. Removing Marrows and Summons on druids helps nerf the top two builds.

Are you saying you wouldn't be happy with pubby games if everyone was pleasant to duel and the occasional mass absorber wasn't allowed?

Pubby games 'suck' because of the things my rule proposal bans.

No, if it's the same thing as a pub with "nicer" people (or CH for that matter), then why would we even bother going through all of this trouble? As for the balancing and mannered, CH is still around. For the pub games and the like, no, I wouldn't be happy with them. 1.1 dueling sucks as is, and making the people nicer (as if) really doesn't change that much.


Have you ever dueled in a league?

As in a clan? No. I'm forcibly in PvPwest (not that I duel much there yet with all of this going on), but I've had plenty of experience with private games in temple games and have dueled plenty of CH and temple folk. Sol, Prince, Tom, some trapper (forgot his name), etc etc.


You're incoherent AND insulting. Nice combo. So you're just implying I'm a "not so bright pub dueler"? Yeah, sure thing Sherlock.

Uh, no. You assumed that I was referring to you even though it was plural. Pub duelers aren't the brightest people around. Just because you have some clan similar to a pub room doesn't make them any better or nicer, it just gives them a better environment to duel in. ***holes will be ***holes, pub or private. As for the incoherence, I'd like some show of evidence of that. And for insulting, I could say your Sherlock remark is as well. Just because you assume something doesn't mean it's true, and at the very least, I'm certainly not "insulting" you on any assumptions that I make up.


What's not a "good excuse"? I say ban items selectively, that is all.

"Have you seen 08 shakos or valors? I haven't. Not on any trade channels, not in any trade forums, not in any dueling games." Just because you don't see them doesn't mean there aren't legit ones, and banning them because "they must be dupes" because you don't see them in trade channels is a poor excuse of a reason (implied) to ban it.

[Dimoak]

No, if it's the same thing as a pub with "nicer" people (or CH for that matter), then why would we even bother going through all of this trouble? As for the balancing and mannered, CH is still around. For the pub games and the like, no, I wouldn't be happy with them. 1.1 dueling sucks as is, and making the people nicer (as if) really doesn't change that much.

Because that is the point, to have duels with nice people.

The fact that you don't like 1.10 dueling is making your opinion rather biased, and your only defense for your arguement is 'I'm not happy with it and 1.10 dueling sucks'.

Learn to argue a point.

[mepersoner]

Decrep is lame. Necs already have a big advantage over melee. Think mep.

Grizzly/Wolves are summon stack bug, without them wind druids won't be quite as dominating.
Wind druids aren't dominate at all when everyone can teleport. Hammerdins and Sins are both > wind druid, and a good necro and druid are even. Plus a good whirl or hybrid barb, is pretty close as well (wind druids have a *slight* advantage). Etc. etc.

Plus, I think a dueling league with more open rules, like what we're discussing in this thread right now, will be a better determinant that the public dueling and dueling among friends that people use now.

[Rauth]

mb= gg windy.

Everyone knows windys are a good duel class. So are bone necs. So are barbs. So are trappers. So are sorcs. They all have weaknesses.

If one class seems to be totally dominating for some strange reason, then just smack em with the nerf stick a few times.

[Module88]

Because that is the point, to have duels with nice people.

The fact that you don't like 1.10 dueling is making your opinion rather biased, and your only defense for your arguement is 'I'm not happy with it and 1.10 dueling sucks'.

Learn to argue a point.

Actually, if anything, I'm less biased than a good chunk of you. I can still debate even though I have an opinion and not be biased. My opinion is nice people can be found in pubs anyhow, and just because you have a clan doesn't mean you'll get all the nice people. 1.1 dueling does suck. I'm entitled to an opinion, and that certainly isn't a biased one based on...? What was my bias based on again? Was I even biased? Why would I go through the trouble of making a new "nice" clan when CH is already around? Is that bias? Would it be worth it to go through all this trouble to make a shadow CH? I don't know about you, but that's a pretty legitimate question, and as far as I'm concerned, isn't biased based on what you claim it is. Pub games in 1.1 I'll never be happy with, but that certainly doesn't make me biased. If I were to ban two players from a clan, one from pub one from private, I'd ban the person less qualified (how it would come to that I have no idea), not the pub guy because he was a pub. My opinion may seem biased, but my arguement certainly isn't.

[Module88]

Wind druids aren't dominate at all when everyone can teleport. Hammerdins and Sins are both > wind druid, and a good necro and druid are even. Plus a good whirl or hybrid barb, is pretty close as well (wind druids have a *slight* advantage). Etc. etc.

Not dominate at all? They are fairly dominant still. It really depends on what other rules you specifiy besides teleport, since that will also be a factor, but to say they aren't dominate at all when everyone can teleport isn't true.

[mepersoner]

No, I can say it and it's 100% true. I just told you.

A good sorc can usually beat a windie. That's 1 class.

A good necro can usually go 1:1 with a windie. That's 2 classes.

A good Hammerdin has the advantage: That's 3 classes.

A good Sorc has the advantage due to cast rate. That's 4 classes

A sin (trapper or whirl) has the advantage. That's 5 classes.

A good barb is just slightly under a windie.

A good windie can beat a good windie. That's 6 classes.

The fact is windie isn't dominant over ANY of the classes, has a slight disadvantage against a couple, an advantage versus a couple (I'll concede that in theory a windie > necro), and a huge huge disadvantage against sins. How is that dominant?

[Module88]

No, I can say it and it's 100% true. I just told you.

A good sorc can usually beat a windie. That's 1 class.

A good necro can usually go 1:1 with a windie. That's 2 classes.

A good Hammerdin has the advantage: That's 3 classes.

A good Sorc has the advantage due to cast rate. That's 4 classes

A sin (trapper or whirl) has the advantage. That's 5 classes.

A good barb is just slightly under a windie.

A good windie can beat a good windie. That's 6 classes.

The fact is windie isn't dominant over ANY of the classes, has a slight disadvantage against a couple, an advantage versus a couple (I'll concede that in theory a windie > necro), and a huge huge disadvantage against sins. How is that dominant?

Wait, you count sorc's as two classes? I figured a good windy and good windy would be fairly even, depending on build. A good hammerdin has the advantage? Not really. While magic damage can't be negated, I can't imagine a good windy would let the hammerdin teleport on top of him and hammer before he moves away. In order to win, the hammerdin must go on the offensive (good windys running into hammers isn't really probable, and if so, it certainly doesn't end the duel), where the druid can go offensive or defensive.

How does the druid have the advantage? More life, very good damage, and can go offensive or defensive. A good necro should have an advantage against a windy, being that he has an aoe spell (so teleporting is slightly less effective) and bone armor is recastable. As for a WW asn, well, without bo, she probably deals less damage and has less life. Against a WW barb, I can't even see him hitting a good windy teleporting a lot. The windy has the advantage of surprise (as he can cast whenever the opportunity presents itself), has the cast speed, and has comparable damage with a medium range attack. So where you got a lot of these is beyond me, unless you can give me some scenario or examples as to why they are better. I don't even know why you counted sorc's twice...

[mepersoner]

Uh? Hammderdins are pretty similar in dueling style, hammerdins just do more damage, things to desynch like charge, no minion stack, and less life (sometimes).

I don't need to give scenarios or examples, I'll tell you what, if you have a windie anyone in pvpwest will be glad to show you with their class how they can beat a windie.

Edit: Dueling isn't all numbers.

[Module88]

Uh? Hammderdins are pretty similar in dueling style, hammerdins just do more damage, things to desynch like charge, no minion stack, and less life (sometimes).

I don't need to give scenarios or examples, I'll tell you what, if you have a windie anyone in pvpwest will be glad to show you with their class how they can beat a windie.

Edit: Dueling isn't all numbers.

I don't have a windy =/. But if you have windy, I'd be honored to duel you.

[tiger-bunny]

this thread is a prime example of why this league needed to be created, half the people that replied are the steriotypical pubby idiots, and then u have to people that are arguing about .08 items even though its been clearly stated why they are banned, lol classic dii.net forums here, this thread should be archived.
im guessing that the idea here is for a balanced leage in which each class has a semi decent chance to win in most duels, nothing more than that.

[Module88]

im guessing that the idea here is for a balanced leage in which each class has a semi decent chance to win in most duels, nothing more than that.

Thing is, that's why we have CH. I really don't see a need for CH2 with a few different rules. As a matter of fact, CH fits that description perfectly.

[mepersoner]

So you're saying we should be unique and going for extremely unbalanced?

Logic ++

[Speederländer]

So you're saying we should be unique and going for extremely unbalanced?

Logic ++

Just don't go for slow, boring and over-balanced. :yawn:

[LordDrift]

if one can tele they all should

[mepersoner]

I think with the overwhelming support for teleport acrossed the board, some persuading can definitely be done.

I hope.

[LordDrift]

I think it should because sorcs can tele faster then any other character, even with massive R/W it will be hard to catch. Giving sorcs tele will give them a unfair advantage

[Rauth]

this thread is a prime example of why this league needed to be created, half the people that replied are the steriotypical pubby idiots, and then u have to people that are arguing about .08 items even though its been clearly stated why they are banned, lol classic dii.net forums here, this thread should be archived.
im guessing that the idea here is for a balanced leage in which each class has a semi decent chance to win in most duels, nothing more than that.


Hmm. I think he just callled half of us idiots...but the question is...WHICH half? *looks around*


You play new ladder tiger-bunny? I havn't seen any orb sorcs going around kickin *** yet. Just a few who called me a hacker for not getting hurt by orb with cyclone on.



On topic. --> Tele plz. Warcries plz. Ban all assassins plz.

[Xircon]

this thread is a prime example of why this league needed to be created, half the people that replied are the steriotypical pubby idiots, and then u have to people that are arguing about .08 items even though its been clearly stated why they are banned, lol classic dii.net forums here, this thread should be archived.
im guessing that the idea here is for a balanced leage in which each class has a semi decent chance to win in most duels, nothing more than that.
Tiger-bunny ---> Warning #1

[mepersoner]

Please refer to this thread (http://www.rpgforums.net/showthread.php?t=236217) to discuss the issue of teleport.

[Module88]

So you're saying we should be unique and going for extremely unbalanced?

Logic ++

No, but there should be some difference between a pub room and our clan, and with the apparent deadlock and debates going on, it's kind of hard to tell what's going on. Hell the rules switch on me and I don't even know it until Sol tells me.

[mepersoner]

That would be the limits on absorb, the limits on potting, etc. etc.

[Module88]

I'd advise everyone to read the sticky up top. Seems like no one cares. =/

[piroteuss]

bone prison should be banned because some chars do not tele.

just my opinion.

[mepersoner]

I'd advise everyone to read the sticky up top. Seems like no one cares. =/
What are you talking about?

[Module88]

What are you talking about?

Just yesterday there were 18 views and zero replies methinks. :scratch: