See inside, Race to 99?

[ConnerMacleod]

http://www.diabloii.net/#newsitem1091657964,31650,

West is "very competitive" now? When did this happen?

I wouldn't know.

Anyone able to take the barb out on East? These guys have to play in pubbies to get any real experience gain, so I KNOW he's out there.

Another thought, wouldn't it be classic if Judgement Day IV came right when the top spots hit 3.500 billion xp? Oh the pain, the pain.

[ElPatron]

pUre-Warrior - Plays totally private, he and Belle(#2 overall) are way ahead of everyone else, and they play at least 150 baals a day.

Both also use hostile chicken.

But, Pure does have a tendecy to die, as shown last ladder. IM, Dolls, FE lister, all killed him...

[ConnerMacleod]

pUre-Warrior - Plays totally private, he and Belle(#2 overall) are way ahead of everyone else, and they play at least 150 baals a day.

Both also use hostile chicken.

But, Pure does have a tendecy to die, as shown last ladder. IM, Dolls, FE lister, all killed him...

Ah, a Maphacker. Then I'll feel sorry for him when Blizz bans for Maphack this next century.

[cougar]

I personally see no wrong if and only if you use chicken to protect against tppk'ers. If blizz isn't gonna do anything about it, what's a person to do, sit there and take it?


edit: I guess now that i think about it that would be taking the easy way out. Screw that, different solution, hunt them down and kill them.

[nebby]

Ah, a Maphacker. Then I'll feel sorry for him when Blizz bans for Maphack this next century.

*gets up from floor, tears streaming down face from laughing so hard*

Uh, Conner- I think you may have suffered from a head injury recently. Please see your local physician. After that, go kill some MHers to make yourself feel better.



Blizz doing something to cheaters. :lol: that's rich.

[Frosty0012]

keyword next century.... ;)

[MoUsE_WiZ]

pUre-Warrior - Plays totally private, he and Belle(#2 overall) are way ahead of everyone else, and they play at least 150 baals a day.

Both also use hostile chicken.

But, Pure does have a tendecy to die, as shown last ladder. IM, Dolls, FE lister, all killed him...Going through the EHC list;
Pure and Belle both chicken host according to this fellow
Ali - Name a hack, Ali uses it
Then there's a bunch of people I don't know at all
PaN-HilaryDuff I'm not sure about, but apparently he got enough snarkos doing Hell andy to cube to CTA, and that was a while back too...it's not proof of botting, but it's enough to set off warning bells
Then there's Cterina who blatantly uses MH
Lusted is a blatant botter

Yeah Flux, they're removing all sorts of top cheaters from the ladders...

EDIT: I did hear a rumor that Ali got his bot account banned...but who the hell cares about that?

[Phantom_Man]

pUre does about 200 a day. I baaled with him for a while, but got kicked out for no reason. I'd rather not talk about it either, because it's that dumb.

And yes, Web and forktheggs are tearing up West. West SC also has 5 98s IIRC.

Phantom- :drink:

[_OrpheusPrime_]

I personally see no wrong if and only if you use chicken to protect against tppk'ers. If blizz isn't gonna do anything about it, what's a person to do, sit there and take it?

I see everyone else ignored this.. I really tried so hard to ignore it too but..






IF YOU USE CHICKEN YOU ARE JUST AS BAD AS THOSE DIRTY TPPK's, BOTH ARE HACKS. :rant:

Sorry.. it just had to come out.

[ConnerMacleod]

Orph, he recanted later in that same post. I noticed it and warmed up the fingers but then I read a little further.

How you guys know all these players? I guess I'm less social on Bnet.

And yes Nebby, key word is "This century".

[cougar]

yes, yes i did

[MoUsE_WiZ]

How you guys know all these players? I guess I'm less social on Bnet.
Going through the same list...
Pure - I know he MH'd from runs last season
Ali - Hearsay
PaN-HilaryDuff - Did a few runs with him this season and figured out he had CTA rather quickly. Asked if it was a lucky rune drop or ebay or what and he said "Hell andy just kept dropping me shakos"
Cterina - Hundreds and hundreds of runs with her last season.
Lusted - Knew him from last season, but not as a botter. This season he's talked about his botting in runs that I was in.

The trick to knowing famous people is to run enough to get famous yourself -.-

[swirly]

Ok, I am probably going to be flamed to hell for this but what the hey. It is all to do with hostile chicken. Now if you had invested as much time into your character as Pure and Belle and were in the same situation as them then I am sure alot of you would use chicken hostile. They can't play public runs because the tppkers would be hunting them down. So they play only private runs. They still have had tppk attempts in these runs. Now if they weren't using chicken hostile their hours upon hours of playing would be ruined. Yes you may argue that you have invested hours upon hours in your character. But, they are playing in only private games. They only get hostiled down in the throne room. Now if the pk attempt was a fair one then they would have plenty of time to exit before the pk could get to them. But these attempts are far from fair, only hacked pk attempts. So what harm is it that they use chicken hostile to counter it. The number of times pure died last season has proved that he doesn't use chicken life. I want to know what you guys would do if you were in their situation. Would you give up on all the hours you have invested in the game and just die to the next tppker that infiltrates the next private game?

Flame away,

Kiwi

[Phantom_Man]

Still a hack. Still lame.

Ali uses anything imaginable. My friend was triggered by him. Ali's friends also have the IQ of a clump of dirt, so if you're in one of his games, your main danger is becoming stupider.

Phantom- :drink:

[LuUcIoUs]

First of all, I would like to say that i don't condone tppks or hacks of any sort be it map hacks, chicken, bots, etc.... it gives us the legit players no chance of competing with those that have it.

Cougar
Just because there are tppkers out there doesn't make it right to have a chicken either. Why even play hardcore if it takes out the element of death out of the game, which basically means they will have chicken on all the time. That is just darn lame. Anyone can do 150 runs a day if they used a maphack. Their 150 runs probably equals my 60 legit runs. They spend 5 hours on 150 runs while I spend 5 hours on 60 runs. How fair is that?

So if you are gonna complain about tppkers then you had better complain about map hackers as well. I would say 85%-90% of the top ladder characters map hack or hack of some sort. Yet on B-net they get praised for being highly ranked on ladder. So in comes these tppker who ruin there day. Oh well, cry me a freakin river. If one of those top 10 ladder hackers get knocked off by another hacker then so be it. Understand this, there are hacks in every game be it diablo 2, war3, or one of my favorites SC. It totally ruins the game for guys who do play fair but i can say this, these tppkers bring an element of surprise that makes you have to become more aware of your surroundings and more careful of what you do. You have to be on your guard 110% of the time. If you see a guy firing at your head and there are no monsters around and a tp is there, you need to be aware of that and get the hell our of the way. Run private games with trusted friends. It might not be 8 player runs but it is better then dying. There are many ways to lesson the risk of dying from tppkers. I have lost a lvl 78 sorc and lvl 70 sorc from tppkers. Does it make me upset, of course, but I will rebuild and try not to make the same mistakes again.
What can you do about it? Bottom line I see is this, the hacking is gonna continue that is something you cannot control. Maybe blizzard can but i don't forsee them them doing anything about it. You can only control yourself. So learn from your mistakes and adapt to the situations, be aware of your surroundings.

[Will]

Heres a question for everyone: Does everyone realize there are two kinds of chicken? There is chicken that exits you when your life goes below a certain point, and then there is chicken that exits you upon being hostiled.

[Chiller_babe]

Heres a question for everyone: Does everyone realize there are two kinds of chicken? There is chicken that exits you when your life goes below a certain point, and then there is chicken that exits you upon being hostiled.

Silly me thought chickens were those stupid things with feathers that taste mighty fine when deep fried in bits :drool:

Damn now I made myself hungry....

Chocolate hunt

[oooAPHRODITEooo]

Silly me thought chickens were those stupid things with feathers that taste mighty fine when deep fried in bits :drool:

Damn now I made myself hungry....

Chocolate hunt



Mmmmm, chocolate. :cheesy:

[ElPatron]

Going through the same list...
Pure - I know he MH'd from runs last season
Ali - Hearsay
PaN-HilaryDuff - Did a few runs with him this season and figured out he had CTA rather quickly. Asked if it was a lucky rune drop or ebay or what and he said "Hell andy just kept dropping me shakos"
Cterina - Hundreds and hundreds of runs with her last season.
Lusted - Knew him from last season, but not as a botter. This season he's talked about his botting in runs that I was in.

The trick to knowing famous people is to run enough to get famous yourself -.-

Ali - bot, tppk, MH
PaN - had to bot...she had CTA in a week of the first ladder..Either she botted or played all the time and got 4 chars to hell hellforge and all dropped Gul. Actually make that 6 since she has a HOTO about that same time.
Cterina - never seen her
Lusted - ran with him a few times, of course I quit baalingafter realizing it's a waste of my time.

Kiwi - Chicken is lame. Instead of using it, maybe get an ounce of intelligence and try to avoid zons and necs you don't know/look suspicious...I guess it's beyond either of them?

[swirly]

Well did you realise that just about any character can tppk you not just zons and necros? I stated he only plays private games to avoid tppk attempts. And yet sometimes some stray person infiltrates his game and attempts the tppk. I think I have more of a clue than you. I just don't know how you guys can get on your high horse and say that hostile chicken (the only hack I am talking about here) is lame when hunted by unscrupulous hack users (read tppkers) when there is no other way to counteract it. They are not harming anyone by using it. Because if hostiled in the legit way they would be able to exit before being killed. Can someone, anyone tell me a feasible/legit way that avoiding tppks can be done?

Kiwi

[Haplon]

Well did you realise that just about any character can tppk you not just zons and necros? I stated he only plays private games to avoid tppk attempts. And yet sometimes some stray person infiltrates his game and attempts the tppk. I think I have more of a clue than you. I just don't know how you guys can get on your high horse and say that hostile chicken (the only hack I am talking about here) is lame when hunted by unscrupulous hack users (read tppkers) when there is no other way to counteract it. They are not harming anyone by using it. Because if hostiled in the legit way they would be able to exit before being killed. Can someone, anyone tell me a feasible/legit way that avoiding tppks can be done?

Kiwi
I agree with you but there are some zealots who believe you lower yourself to a hackers standard to use a hack to stop a hack from killing you. A very moralistic and impractical notion. Its the same as I will not physically intervene with that person that is assaulting my sister because all violence is wrong and I will not lower myself to that level. Ya it doesn't stand up in real life but hey this is an internet game so people can ascribe to whatever silly notions they want.

[viamede]

I gather he needs to choose his friends better (I know not easy to do if you are ladder running). Having chicken on would be annoying if you drop anytime anyone of any level for whatever reason hostiles. You also taint your accomplishments as as far as I am aware that safeguard comes with all the other bells and whistles if you use em or not.

Some of us zealots would just rather not be tempted. I know I would just have to try out the map just to see what it looks like and then....

[LuUcIoUs]

No disrespect intended Swirly, I think what people are saying is that using hacks period is lame be it to protect yourself or not. One hack doesn't make another one right. Also using one hack generally leads to using other hacks as well, map hacks...etc... It's just not fair for the non hackers. There are definite advantages so, if your goal is to say that hacking is ok if......, then other types of hacks are ok too. I believe you will become a better all around player without using hacks at all. Some people nowadays can't even tp without using mh, those players are basically handicapped now. Like I stated before 85% of the top ladder ranked players do use map hacks to get where they are. Most people think they are great players? I called them handicapped. All in all you choose what you believe is right.

[baalos]

Swirly, if they only play private games, why would they need to worry about TPPKs? There is no honor in chicken in hc. Stray person? Change the password to more than just a few letters and they should be fine.

[TheZinger]

Hi, this is Zinger, aka PaN-HilaryDuff.
Just some information:
Pure also died to baal, at the end of season 1

also: baalos TPPKers still get into games.. for some reason, one of the people who's friends w/ a baaler wants to be invited, they are invited. Then they try to tppk some people in there. Which is immediately solved after the first hostility.. which could be the last for some that dont use chicken hostile.

And about people saying I use a bot to get the CTA within the first two weeks. I just simply fallowed a friend who made a bad CTA so I wanted to up him. I also had 6 people in group, which I got hellforge from all them.. Not to mention the remake from first 2 chars dieng while trying to mf with HORRIBLE gear. so thats 8 hellforges there to let me use. And let alone being lucky on having such a great group to mf with me and allow me to get items off them whenever I needed. So with all that.. How would it be hard to find enough scrap to get a CTA?

[TheCerberus]

omg i r teh luv 4 hil4ree duf!

[ConnerMacleod]

Actually, last season I located an Ohm rune within the first 2 weeks of the ladder. Dropped right at the Summoner and I was lucky enough to have found a teleport staff for my necro. I saw that thing drop and I just teleported right over to his pedestal (which was by no means clear, the Summoner was still alive), snagged it, got the quest, and quickly left to go mule it. Took me about 2 months to finally use the thing. I made a Bramble with it (I wanted to make one soooo bad all season so I traded for a Sur, duped I'm sure but oh well).

So it's possible to get a CTA very quickly this season. We all know the top spots on the ladder today are inhabited with MH users and hack users, that's a given. I just laugh because if Blizz allows them to hit 99, then they will get a first class headline from all of us. Some thing along the lines of:

Blizzard Rewards Hack Use, Policy Considered Dead

Oh well, I gotta be happy with what I got. Because in the end, the good guys never finish first.

[ElPatron]

Well did you realise that just about any character can tppk you not just zons and necros? I stated he only plays private games to avoid tppk attempts. And yet sometimes some stray person infiltrates his game and attempts the tppk. I think I have more of a clue than you. I just don't know how you guys can get on your high horse and say that hostile chicken (the only hack I am talking about here) is lame when hunted by unscrupulous hack users (read tppkers) when there is no other way to counteract it. They are not harming anyone by using it. Because if hostiled in the legit way they would be able to exit before being killed. Can someone, anyone tell me a feasible/legit way that avoiding tppks can be done?

Kiwi

here's a legit way, be aware of your surroundings. If someone joins the game who hasn't been in it before, watch out. If that druid'd tornado's are going through you, move. If that sorc is moving with you, maybe asks you a question to get you stopped, watch out. Common sense...something you apparently don't grasp... :rant:

[TheZinger]

Indeed this is true... while in a game with pure, some necro was spamming bone spirits.. the smart half went to town and waited for whatever to go down, while me not paying attention stood still and watched the spirits come by me... Soon after the necro standing in the back by the doorways attempted tppk pure I believe..or belle.. and after all the people in the throne left game except me and the tppker aka some bmpk guy left the game and everyone was like "what the hell just happened?" Was odd, that being the only, and first tppk attempt I believe of those private runs.. beside some Mike_Likman guy who just used vulgur language and taunted everyone in the game. All you have to do is be aware of stuff thats going on around you and trust your teleporter to not send some certain death tps.

[laughingtiger]

Ok, I am probably going to be flamed to hell for this ...
Flame away,
Kiwi

No flames.. just an observation... I think most legit players believe that the integrity of the game has been compromised by hacks, both in the offensive use and the defensive use of them. IMHO, legit players just want the game to be played as it was meant to be played, for the most part.

If most of the "defensive" hack users spent as much time as they did looking and trying out and using these hacks as they did making diligent and detailed reports to Blizz about the hacks, then IMO, Blizz would be more motivated to do something about it because of the sheer number of reports coming. Yes, we've all heard the con arguements about reporting hacks, etc.. Bottom line is, two wrongs don't make it right. Cheating is cheating regardless of the rationalizations behind them.

Cheers! :drink:

[Bongo Fury]

so I traded for a Sur, duped I'm sure but oh wellWith all the self righteous pontificating you do about legit play, it turns out you're a dirty cheater too. Talk about a hypocrit.

Well, the good news is that we won't have to listen to your antichearer rants any more.

[MachineOfaDream]

The responses in here surprise me a lot.

First of all, I don't know what planet you guys are playing on, but a CTA is not that hard to get. It's hard, but not THAT hard. If you were to play 6 characters through to hell and get their forges you'd probably have a pretty nice rune collection. Now figure that almost ALL of the top ranked ladder players are D2 veterans. That means they have friend networks. If you had a vex and you best friend the tele sorc needed another vex to make ohm, would you give it to him? Most of the top players win through TEAMWORK, not through purely selfish play. Even the PK botting hack freaks have some kind of friend network to help them out. I'm not saying all people have legit items. I'm just saying that it's unfair to accuse legit players when all you have to go on is "probably"...

My second surprise is about the comments made about Maphack. Listen, 100% of ladder characters and 99.9% of players period are guilty of using the Maphack in some way. Even if you don't personally use it (as my log on this board might indicate, I use a Mac so I can't use it) you end up benefitting from it when you go to a game and others have it. You simply cannot play publicly in this game for more than a few hours without somehow benefitting from a maphacker. Your only option is to not play at all or to only do privates with friends. Is that fair? If Blizzard decides not to count people using MH, then I have a real good shot at winning the prize, but would i deserve it? If I won the prize I'd likely mail it right over to the "real" #1 player because I know I'm not getting high levels without benefit from MH. Does this mean people are bad players or are cheaters? Well in a perfect world maybe you could try to say that, but really you're going to be unable to play with anyone but yourself if you want to remain completely not guilty.

Do I support MH? Ideally no. Realistically? I can't avoid it. Do I support botting? NO. You don't need to bot to get good items. If you Baal enough you get nice drops from Baal after a while. No serious ladder player is going to have to bot! If you Baal 150 times per day you get rich eventually even if it's divided 80% to the tele sorc and 20% among 7 other people. In my time doing the minions I've seen plenty of high runes and items fall from them as well. Botting is unnecessary and it's done mostly by overly greedy players and people who want to make a quick buck on eBay.

[TheCerberus]

I'm sorry, whats that? 100% of ladder players use it? Well, I don't use it... oh, there goes that statistic!

[Will]

I agree with you but there are some zealots who believe you lower yourself to a hackers standard to use a hack to stop a hack from killing you. A very moralistic and impractical notion. Its the same as I will not physically intervene with that person that is assaulting my sister because all violence is wrong and I will not lower myself to that level. Ya it doesn't stand up in real life but hey this is an internet game so people can ascribe to whatever silly notions they want.

Good post Haplon, very good points. If someone wants to use chicken hack(and I use the term hack very loosely here) that exits them upon hostile, then im 110% fine with it. You gotta do what you gotta do to avoid being pked unfairly. People confuse chicken hack that exits you upon being hostiled with chicken hack that exits you upon losing a certain amount of life.

[MoUsE_WiZ]

thats 8 hellforges there to let me use. And let alone being lucky on having such a great group to mf with me and allow me to get items off them whenever I needed. So with all that.. How would it be hard to find enough scrap to get a CTA?
Sorry, I wouldn't have mentioned your name with botting had I known that.
But like I said, when I asked you just said "hell andy just kept dropping me shakos" so I wasn't aware that was ontop of 8 hellforges.

[TheZinger]

s'all good..anyways who were you that baaled with us..if you dont want to list publicly msg me on Diablo. Im sure you figured out my acct name by now :surprise:

[baalos]

Well here's the thing, TheZinger, it should be fool me once shame on you, fool me twice and shame on me. A friend of a friend doing that would quickly be taken off my f/list if that happened more than once. If you hack, you do not deserve any credit for your success. Period.

Oh, and welcome to the forums.

[_OrpheusPrime_]

Do I support MH? Ideally no. Realistically? I can't avoid it. Do I support botting? NO.

Im sorry but, taking the 'oh you cannot avoid them' stance on hacks around here wont win you any friends. We are a mostly legit group on these forums we dispise the effect map hack and bots have had on the game. Namely: any old dumbass can now be #1 HC Ladder.

Why? Because of chicken hack, map hack, w/e they dont even need to be careful, just let the hack save you over and over. Because of bots, the economy of battle.net is utterly ruined. High end items are completely Deflated in value (so when I finally find a skullders, storm, shako, tals armor, or whatever legitimatly, I won't get beans compared to what it vary well should be worth due to the fact its almost a common item its been botted so much. Meanwhile any time I try and trade for a common unique or set (Angelic or Sigon for example) you will find nothing but demands for the over-botted high end stuff.

Your point about baal running 150 times a day is meaningless when one can just leave his or her bot on all night while sleeping and more than likely find more items than the poor sap running legit baal runs all day. (Lets not even get into the fact that in public games a legit player will have a helliva time getting any drops with so much pickit hack being used)

I think that completely outlines my argument. Hacks have destroyed the sanctity of Hardcore. To come here defending them in any way (even if you dont use them) is foolish at best.

[MoUsE_WiZ]

D's friend PlaysWithBoners would've been my character when I baaled with you

[MachineOfaDream]

Your response is competely irrelevant to what I was saying. If you're going to be responding to my comments please give me the respect to completely read what I have to say. I don't use any hacks myself. My points were basically this:

1. If you're going to hell baal or pub with anonymous players at all, you end up playing with people who use MH. In any power-baal run you end up having sorcs who MH to teleport. If you avoid playing with people who use MH you wind up playing alone or with small groups of people, and that's ladder suicide. It's NOT A GOOD THING, but that's how it is. You end up benefitting from MH just by playing, for better or worse. You can't expect the average player to self monitor the entire realm. You're asking too much of me if you want me to interrogate every sorc who teles in my runs.

2. There are no ladder players I play with who bot, as far as I know. Most of them got rich off baals and old fashioned manual MFing. CTA and HOTO are not hard to get legit. MAYBE if someone has enigma you have a point, but then again, I do know of one guy who found Jah in cows. He spammed up my F list when it happened. I'm pretty sure that wasn't botting. Good items can be found without botting. Doing 150 baal runs a day is one way. That's all I was trying to say. The top players do so many Baals that they don't need to bot to get good enough gear to survive. Heck, throw on a Disciple set and you're about as safe as anyone. That's an easy set to complete. (I wear it!)

Your comment about any old idiot being able to be #1 doesn't make sense to me. Go ahead and try to run the ladder someday. It's *not* easy. It's especially not easy to avoid PKs. No one I know has not at one point this season had a PK attempt against them. If you ask those top players what they think of chicken, they will not have nice things to say. All it does it stop you from getting loot if you turn it on for anything other than PK attempts. You don't even need to use it for those! If you leave when someone hostiles, people accuse you of chicken! It's stupid! If you're paying attention it's easy to manually leave. People in here are using the evidence that certain players left a game upon being hostiled to support the thesis that they use chicken. It's ridiculous.\

If it was so easy to be #1, go ask some people who use tons of hacks why they aren't able to keep up. Winning the ladder is more about knowing great people than anything. Trust me on that, or not. I don't care. Just at least read my words, because I registered simply to respond to this thread, and I put a lot of thought into what I said.

Im sorry but, taking the 'oh you cannot avoid them' stance on hacks around here wont win you any friends. We are a mostly legit group on these forums we dispise the effect map hack and bots have had on the game. Namely: any old dumbass can now be #1 HC Ladder.

Why? Because of chicken hack, map hack, w/e they dont even need to be careful, just let the hack save you over and over. Because of bots, the economy of battle.net is utterly ruined. High end items are completely Deflated in value (so when I finally find a skullders, storm, shako, tals armor, or whatever legitimatly, I won't get beans compared to what it vary well should be worth due to the fact its almost a common item its been botted so much. Meanwhile any time I try and trade for a common unique or set (Angelic or Sigon for example) you will find nothing but demands for the over-botted high end stuff.

Your point about baal running 150 times a day is meaningless when one can just leave his or her bot on all night while sleeping and more than likely find more items than the poor sap running legit baal runs all day. (Lets not even get into the fact that in public games a legit player will have a helliva time getting any drops with so much pickit hack being used)

I think that completely outlines my argument. Hacks have destroyed the sanctity of Hardcore. To come here defending them in any way (even if you dont use them) is foolish at best.

[turnips]

I remember a time when the hardcore community was so small that almost everyone knew each other. Before maphack, ridiculously high levels, botting, etc. Back then you'd know who really was a "good player", hell anyone who got to hell at least looked good. I just think that with all these hacks hardcore isn't hardcore at all. I wish they could rollback to classic or maybe back to early 1.08 when there was no bull; just real gaming with no posers. The new patches and hacks just make it impossible to know who's legit or who's a "noob" etc...it's all heresay and accusations. This game went down midway through .08, and it'll never improve; only get worse.

Go Optimism!

[ConnerMacleod]

Yep Bongo, I'm a dirty cheater. I admit it. I used a rune that I didn't know if it was a dupe or not since I did not locate it myself... boohoohoo. It was before the rune dupe came out. Only cost me a 146 base def UNID SS, arachnids, Gul rune, and a Tal Ammy to obtain it. I remember this trade most because I was not that rich at the time. So I guess that qualifies me as a full fledged all-out TPPKing MHing Botting Hack using idiot. My apologies to everyone.

Read the post a little closer. Within 2 weeks located, 2 months to use it. Half-witted troll-baiter, you just made the list. And at 200 posts, wow, I can see where YOU are coming from.

[MachineOfaDream]

I remember a time when the hardcore community was so small that almost everyone knew each other. Before maphack, ridiculously high levels, botting, etc. Back then you'd know who really was a "good player", hell anyone who got to hell at least looked good. I just think that with all these hacks hardcore isn't hardcore at all. I wish they could rollback to classic or maybe back to early 1.08 when there was no bull; just real gaming with no posers. The new patches and hacks just make it impossible to know who's legit or who's a "noob" etc...it's all heresay and accusations. This game went down midway through .08, and it'll never improve; only get worse.

Go Optimism!

I agree that it was a lot better before the expansion, but I mean it's a free service so you take what you get. For being a free online RPG, Diablo 2 isn't so bad. Some of you are too pessimistic about how much the top levelers cheat and stuff, though. I feel offended that people think of us as all dirty. A good 75% of the them are good people to play with who use hacks sparingly or not at all.... The real nasty scum are mostly off killing each other and dying because they are so rich that they're reckless.

It's also not that easy to survive through 6000 baal runs. One unique doll group at the tp will kill ya potentially... I mean it should be harder. I wouldn't play without the prospect of death. But.... Some people still find in this game fun despite the probs. I think maybe some of you are just a little tired of Diablo if you make claims that everyone who does well is a cheater and is not a good player. It's kind of sad... :-(

[ConnerMacleod]

It's not that everyone who does well is a cheater. For the most part it's just distressing to see that a majority of the people doing well are hacking their way to the top, and not with swords.

[cougar]

Cougar
Just because there are tppkers out there doesn't make it right to have a chicken either. Why even play hardcore if it takes out the element of death out of the game, which basically means they will have chicken on all the time. That is just darn lame. Anyone can do 150 runs a day if they used a maphack. Their 150 runs probably equals my 60 legit runs. They spend 5 hours on 150 runs while I spend 5 hours on 60 runs. How fair is that?

Wtf, did people forget how to read or something?

edit: I guess now that i think about it that would be taking the easy way out. Screw that, different solution, hunt them down and kill them

I posted, changed my mind, then edited the post.

Is this so hard? :scratch:

[MachineOfaDream]

It's not that everyone who does well is a cheater. For the most part it's just distressing to see that a majority of the people doing well are hacking their way to the top, and not with swords.

It depends on if you consider having a tele sorc who probably uses MH hacking your way to the top. Generally my mentality is that it's hard enough to find nice players who won't kill you. If a few of them seem to be using MH, i don't ask questions. I already have a hard enough time steering clear of people who bot.... I don't have all day to play D2. I have a few hours in the morning and night set aside to baal and I want 100 or more runs in. If the only nice players around have a MH prog, so be it.... I'd have to quit being competitive if I raised my standards any more. I'd rather a nice group of enjoyable playing partnes win than a nasty one...

[Luna2]

ya, RIP D2, it died when lod came out.

[ConnerMacleod]

But Machine, that line of thought goes with my previous thoughts on PvM players. They are inherently evil, and acceptance of evil is not to be tolerated. In reality, PvPs/PKs are nicer people than any PvMer you will ever meet. Being on this side of the fence you will meet alot of other PKs.

Perfect Example: Last season I lost a sorc to a bad decision. I was a little upset, but my new buddy (who I was threatening to hunt down and kill in some thread dedicated to him) joined me in a transfer game and handed me a new Death's Fathom that I had lost earlier. He didn't play sorcs, only Barbs. And he terrorized all the evil PvMers for the longest time. Oh yeah, he went by CandianBeef. Outside of some people I know here, that is more than I've ever gotten from some PvMer who will steal your gear, steal your xp, use Chicken to get out of dying to monster/man, use Maphack to run some boss infinitely, and cheat in duels.

Ok, but back to the race to 99. They can use all the hacks they want. It ultimately falls on one disinterested party to enforce the rules. Like I said previously, by awarding the prize to a Maphacker, their policy becomes null and void. And my purchase of their new WoW will not happen.

[MachineOfaDream]

But Machine, that line of thought goes with my previous thoughts on PvM players. They are inherently evil, and acceptance of evil is not to be tolerated. In reality, PvPs/PKs are nicer people than any PvMer you will ever meet. Being on this side of the fence you will meet alot of other PKs.

Perfect Example: Last season I lost a sorc to a bad decision. I was a little upset, but my new buddy (who I was threatening to hunt down and kill in some thread dedicated to him) joined me in a transfer game and handed me a new Death's Fathom that I had lost earlier. He didn't play sorcs, only Barbs. And he terrorized all the evil PvMers for the longest time. Oh yeah, he went by CandianBeef. Outside of some people I know here, that is more than I've ever gotten from some PvMer who will steal your gear, steal your xp, use Chicken to get out of dying to monster/man, use Maphack to run some boss infinitely, and cheat in duels.

Ok, but back to the race to 99. They can use all the hacks they want. It ultimately falls on one disinterested party to enforce the rules. Like I said previously, by awarding the prize to a Maphacker, their policy becomes null and void. And my purchase of their new WoW will not happen.

Actually Canadienbeef was a breath of fresh air to me. That guy was a PK who terrorized me, but he never used a hack to do it. He was an old fashioned WW lance barb who PKed at WPs and got friends to send tps he was sitting at while he was pretending to be dueling on the blood moor. No, the WP trick isn't a hack. It's just exploiting some bad programming. His brand of PKing is wonderful compared to BS hackers. And no, you don't need to hack to PK with BS, but most do. Most of the ones who kill people do. I only maybe saw one guy who claimed to do it manually, and he was bad at it.. had to stand so far back that he always gave himself away...

[ConnerMacleod]

Yep, Beef quit right as all the hacks were making their reappearance. He had a better idea than me... Golf. Seeing as how he really is Canadian, he has a limited window to enjoy it.

And you pegged it, those were his strategies exactly. Many games where he got the kills were like Poker games. You would have 6 people in a game, and the sucker was you... meaning that 4 of the 6 were his buddies assisting him.

I wasn't terrorized, I do what every good player does. I hit the P button when I enter every game (NM and Hell that is). I then check to see who's there and then join or party.

[Bongo Fury]

Gee Conner, I'm sorry you're upset. But I didn't out you, you did that yourself. I was merely commenting on the hypocricy of the situation. I'm not some Griefer, who takes pleasure in causing misery in others. Rather, I'm the type who goes out of my way to help others out. Heck, when 1.10 was first released I was organizing co-op games for 40 some players a couple times a week. Even though it usually meant that I got stuck in a half empty game, while making 4-5 full games for the rest. I didn't care, because I was rewarded in another way, by making others happy. So I'm really not the kind of person to bust someone else's balls just for fun.

But given your constant tirades against cheating, your admission to willfully using an item that you knew was surely duped, was too much to let slide without comment. Particularly since you are so radical in your defense of legit play. In this very thread your criticizing people who use MH just to avoid TPPK, because of a zero tolerance for hacks. Well by the same token, there should be zero tolerance for dupes. So you trading for a rune that you yourself felt is surely duped, is wrong, period. You have to make a GOOD FAITH effort to avoid dupes if you want to claim to be legit so vociferously. Trading for a rune you felt was duped, and then dismissing it with an 'oh well', is out of line for someone who professes radical legitness.

While I disagree with you on the PK issuue, we're generally in agreement on cheating. I think everyone should be encouraged to play the game legitimately. So I'll encourage you to look at your game play, and try to be as strongly legit in the other areas as you are concerning hacks. Because it would be a shame to lose such a strong voice in the campaign for legit play.

Rune duping was out within the first month of 1.10's release.

LOL, post count, good one. Just like the motor mouth bimbo at work has the most credibility since she talks the most? She never says anything, but she talks all the time. Quantity over quality?

[_OrpheusPrime_]

This argument is going nowhere fast, I suggest we stop picking on eachother here and just agree we are all against hacks, in general. Sadly, the best we can do about it is continue to email blizzard about the hacking problems and hope they will one day come to our rescue (more or less).

Till then, PK the hackers when you can, best of luck.

[ConnerMacleod]

I agree Orpheus. Bongo is just another link in a Troll-Chain that is longer than the wait for Christmas. I tell you what, this Ignore function is uber cool. Ever since I put Mr. You-Know-Who on it yesterday, my blood pressure has been normal! Anytime I see a troll, I just click, click, press ignore.

OMG HAX!

[Nerf-Herder]

LOL, post count, good one. Just like the motor mouth bimbo at work has the most credibility since she talks the most? She never says anything, but she talks all the time. Quantity over quality?

i hate it when people throw post counts at other posters trying to make themselves better -- simply pathetic

there is a HUGE difference between saying something and actually having something to say

conner said that the rune was "probably" duped -- he didnt know for sure -- if he did and traded for it anyway, then he is no better than the dupers themselves IMO

i had like 8 or 9 SOJs in .09 -- 4 i found myself, 2 others were inherited when my friend B7 quit (he found those), but the rest i traded for -- the traders involved assured me they wrent dupes and i had no reason to no believe them since they werent known hackers (to me anyway)

can i ever know for a fact?

[ZounceHC]

bahhhhhhhhhhh

[_OrpheusPrime_]

bahhhhhhhhhhh

Am I the only one unsure of how to interpret this? :scratch:

[laughingtiger]

Am I the only one unsure of how to interpret this? :scratch:

Isn't that the sound that goats make when they're hungry for...COOKIES!?!?! :surprise:

Where's Cyradis when ya need a good thread hijack? :lol:

[cyradis2003]

My second surprise is about the comments made about Maphack. Listen, 100% of ladder characters and 99.9% of players period are guilty of using the Maphack in some way. Even if you don't personally use it (as my log on this board might indicate, I use a Mac so I can't use it) you end up benefitting from it when you go to a game and others have it. You simply cannot play publicly in this game for more than a few hours without somehow benefitting from a maphacker. .

Quick FYI ... you are painting us all with your dirty brush and I for one do not appreciate it.

There are some of us who play the game as they want to play it - clean. If you want to cheat that is your perogative - just don't come here to justify it.

As I have said before and will prolly say again (I tend to repeat myself):
You play your reality and we will play ours.

[cyradis2003]

Isn't that the sound that goats make when they're hungry for...COOKIES!?!?! :surprise:

Where's Cyradis when ya need a good thread hijack? :lol:

*humms softly*
*calls 1-800-gib-acme*
*waits patiently by the mail box*
*receives large brown paper parcel*
*cheefully assembles her new toy*
BEWARE THE PIE-A-PAULT!!!!

*begins launching carrot cream pies at all and sundry*

[_OrpheusPrime_]

Quick FYI ... you are painting us all with your dirty brush and I for one do not appreciate it.


Well said. :clap:

[cyradis2003]

*ignores the double post*


*burries Orpheus in carrot cream pies*

:wave:

[Bongo Fury]

conner said that the rune was "probably" duped -- he didnt know for sure -- if he did and traded for it anyway, then he is no better than the dupers themselves IMO

i had like 8 or 9 SOJs in .09 -- 4 i found myself, 2 others were inherited when my friend B7 quit (he found those), but the rest i traded for -- the traders involved assured me they wrent dupes and i had no reason to no believe them since they werent known hackers (to me anyway)

can i ever know for a fact?You made a good faith effort to avoid dupes, and you can honestly claim you believe your SOJs to be legit. I don't think there's anything more that can be asked from a Realms player. Conner on the other hand first claimed he traded for a duped rune:
so I traded for a Sur, duped I'm sure but oh wellThen when I called him on it he tried a little obfuscation:
I used a rune that I didn't know if it was a dupe or not since I did not locate it myselfSo what's the truth of the matter? Only Conner knows for sure. But I think it's fairly obvious that he can't make the same claim to be making a good faith effort to remain dupe free like you. Which is quite funny for someone who takes such pleasure in deriding others for their less than legit play.

[_OrpheusPrime_]

I'd like to ask you once again, stop trying to justify attacking Conner by repeatedly telling us he once traded for a rune that may or may not have been a dupe. He said it 'probably was' in jest i am sure. You have taken this too far and I suggest you stop before you make more enemies.

[Rekoc]

I'd like to ask you once again, stop trying to justify attacking Conner by repeatedly telling us he once traded for a rune that may or may not have been a dupe. He said it 'probably was' in jest i am sure. You have taken this too far and I suggest you stop before you make more enemies.


Well Said. Bongo your telling me you have never once traded for something from someone you do not know? What if they botted it? What if they traded it from someone that did bot? I for one have not traded anyone for anything this season and I probably am not. Why should I trade something I risk my (D2)life for because I play legit so i have to run all around durance lvl 2 and the catacombs when a lot of others just tele straight there or use a program and sleep while they find items? Im keeping my items and when they get banned ill be safe :) Thats how D2 should be...find your items and keep them. Then that ends all dupeing problems.

[ZounceHC]

he can't make the same claim to be making a good faith effort to remain dupe free like you.

If you consider asking a potential trader if their items are duped an "effort to remain dupe free" then you're naive.

Not trading at all is the only way know for sure that you're "dupe free".

At least Connor can accept the fact that 75% ++ of runes Um+, just like 90% of sojs in 1.09, are duped and not try to fool himself by asking someone with a vested interest to lie, if their items are legit.

Common currency such as sojs, 40/15s and godly charms in 1.09 and runes in 1.10 have been prone to duping sprees for a long time. I don't think legit players should have to compensate their playing/trading any further than they do already (ie - avoiding being tainted by Mhers and botters).

[turnips]

Like I said before, it's all heresay without any proof. So Connor may have traded for a legit high rune that was found after the dupe by the trader, or it could've been duped. Dupers/Botters/Cheaters suck, but the recent "bot" threads accusing people and all these lame accusations are like the salem witch trials...geez, just calm down. I once traded for a measly 34% viper last season and it disappeared...should I be flamed for not asking whether it was duped or not? How was I to expect that such a common item would be duped, especially one that wasn't perfect stats. After its disappearance I figure in hindsight it was a dupe, but is that my fault? Using some people's logic I shouldn't trade with anyone for anything. Maybe that cracked sash I so dearly wanted is duped...I guess I should snuff that dream out if I want to stay legit.

[baalos]

I agree Orpheus. Bongo is just another link in a Troll-Chain that is longer than the wait for Christmas. I tell you what, this Ignore function is uber cool. Ever since I put Mr. You-Know-Who on it yesterday, my blood pressure has been normal! Anytime I see a troll, I just click, click, press ignore.

OMG HAX!
You are making a mistake squelching bongo. Has nothing to do with post count. He made a fair arguement, and he did it softly, imo. Also, he has been here a long time and speaks only when compelled to. You might want to rethink you opinion on him.

[Nerf-Herder]

You are making a mistake squelching bongo. Has nothing to do with post count. He made a fair arguement, and he did it softly, imo. Also, he has been here a long time and speaks only when compelled to. You might want to rethink you opinion on him.

hence the first part of my earlier post....

theres a big difference between saying something and actually having somethinf to say

[MachineOfaDream]

Quick FYI ... you are painting us all with your dirty brush and I for one do not appreciate it.

There are some of us who play the game as they want to play it - clean. If you want to cheat that is your perogative - just don't come here to justify it.

As I have said before and will prolly say again (I tend to repeat myself):
You play your reality and we will play ours.

I am not a bad person for being honest. If you play D2 in public games and with people you don't know, you will undoubtedly wind up playing with people who use MH. You can choose to segregate yourself from them. You can choose to play only with people you know who don't use MH and spend your time in small games because you are so careful with who you play with. OR you can play the game like most people... In public or private games with tons of people you don't know and just accept that some of them are using MH. if you do this, you're almost just as guilty. By going with the party, you end up taking afvantage of the MH yourself! Blizzard doesn't WANT people to have to seclude themself. They want it to be a game where you play with lots of people. In doing so you end up running into some people who cheat. You end up taking advantage of the MH sometimes. Inadvertently, but it's all the same. The idea is that the game is either ruined or just not being played how it's supposed to. I still find it to be an enjoyable experience. Let's not pretend that we're all saints here though. Just because you give in and accept that people are using the MH doesn't mean you don't want it gone...

Anyway, if you think I'm being a jerk here, I'll just say that the names of a few of my buddies were mentioned in this thread, and most of the stuff said was just heresay. I remained civil about it and didn't get confrontational, so no hard feelings, okay?

[MachineOfaDream]

This argument is going nowhere fast, I suggest we stop picking on eachother here and just agree we are all against hacks, in general. Sadly, the best we can do about it is continue to email blizzard about the hacking problems and hope they will one day come to our rescue (more or less).

Till then, PK the hackers when you can, best of luck.

I would love to see the hacks disposed of suddenly one day. The chaos it would bring would be lovely. Nothing I love more than adversity...

[ConnerMacleod]

Baalos, I did rethink it. Denied. That was two times he flamed me. I'm not here to get my panties in a wad. Someone says something as rude as that and, well, a SECOND time, I just think I would rather not read than sit and be insulted.

Bad manners too, lurking and not contributing to the hundreds of threads here. And don't say, "But the discussions are terrible". Ok, if they are so bad and not worth contributing to, then why the heck would you come here in the first place? Not only that, but I am a person that believes in defending myself, and things I have done and said in the past get me all knotted up. Best to just ignore it and move on and not have to worry about getting into trouble.

[cougar]

Hardly a flame, toughen up.

[ConnerMacleod]

Oh I am tough. But I don't put up with childish comments, especially when ZF specifically said no more.

[baalos]

I won't deny Bongo's first response wasn't harsh. You did first state you didn't know if the rune was duped, and further you stated you didn't exactly care.

Bongo's second response was about as far away from a flame as you get.

Bongo is a long-time member of this community and about as legit and helpful as anyone can be. You are free to do what you want, including squelshing me, but I think you are wrong on this one.

[rachil0]

I have a lot of respect for bongo, regardless of post count. He organized a lot of gat friends games that were a lot of fun to be in.

People that I've never heard of calling Bongo a troll is ignorant.

[hc_ugajeremy]

If you play D2 in public games and with people you don't know, you will undoubtedly wind up playing with people who use MH. You can choose to segregate yourself from them.

I agree with this 100%. People are very quick to argue against MH'ers because it destroys the integrity of an online society. Honestly though, unless you leave the instant you think someone is using MH or play solo/100% of the time with folks you know don't MH then you are going to benefit from a party member using it. Key words are 'party member'.

I have been very adamant in the past about hacks and bots and such, and I still have yet to use any of these programs, but I'm no longer playing the role of saint when it comes to preaching to others about THEIR use.

I have felt the ill affects of TPPK and as such I can sympathize with those who get killed for the first time. After that, it seems as if you're entering water you know is infested with sharks. I felt 'bad' when I first died because it had taken away my time, but I also learned from it; about builds and hacks.

The arguements about botters amuses me. I wonder if the creator of this program even plays anymore or ever did. It seems like such a logical transition of progress that I find it ironic. He/she wrote a piece of software that controls your mouse/keyboard and reads packets sent to your own machine. It just reeks of an actual paid job to me. It seems exactly like something we have our programmers do here at work. Obviously pertaining to work, not Diablo.

The only real thing that is threatening Battle.net are the DOS attacks made by the lag dupe.. those are very illegal and I honestly don't see how those aren't fixed yet. That's got to be costing them money in some way at least. Oh well, I've ranted enough.

That's my lunch talk. Cheers.