Liberator Pally in Pub Duels..

[rsxxx]

Hi guys...I've been trying to make a nice pvp character and I finally decided to make a liberator on my season 2 ladder.

How will Liberator using charge/vigor + hammer/concentration combo stand against people in Public duels? I'm guessing mostly sorc/wind druid/necro/barbs.

I think against barbs and other melee, as long as I play it safe and smart and just dodge his WW's and etc... as I try to find a open spot for tele/charge and spam hammers (desynching charge and hammer)

and Same thing as sorc...put a little resist/raven/dwarfs on (not too much absorb) and tele around + vigor charge and start hammering.

I think my only real hard enemy would be a bone necro since Liberator and Bone Necro both uses un-reduceable magical damage.

[sammy]

i made a liberator dont waste your energy charge desyncs and is very unreliable and it only hits 25% of time u cant even do 1hit kos with using a 2 handed wep hammers are easily avoid able very hard to aim with.

[Module88]

i made a liberator dont waste your energy charge desyncs and is very unreliable and it only hits 25% of time u cant even do 1hit kos with using a 2 handed wep hammers are easily avoid able very hard to aim with.

I sort of understood that. =/ Liberators do ok, but you do need teleport if you want to stand a chance. Hammers alone without teleport are squat, especially against necros.

[MoreGameThanPS2]

Hmm, i messed around with my hammerdin in pubbies during the end of season 1. He did better than ok. My strategy was to shift charge from the bottom to right below the victim. While still holding shift i would shift hotkey to hammer. Much of the time I was able to 1 hit ko. I reached the 75 fcr with a charge worthy weapon and left concentration on at all time(was using cta, otherise would have had wizzy on switch). Blessed Hammer does sick damage, it just takes more finesse to use it without teleport. It isn't really all that hard to aim, expect mixed results.

[luis19]

my old liberator did really well without tele.
charge will 1-2 hit ko alot of ppl and its a good to chase ppl down with.

charge+hammer can work just as well as tele+hammer if you know what your doing.

also if u also use smite, a liberator will be deadly. its perfect for getting that last hit in and works well vs ppl with low fhr.

[fugitive alien2]

i made a liberator dont waste your energy charge desyncs and is very unreliable and it only hits 25% of time u cant even do 1hit kos with using a 2 handed wep hammers are easily avoid able very hard to aim with.

...and i made a "pure" hammerdin with a charge switch - not technically a lib but plays like one - and the only other chars (pub with no absorb restrictions) that are really any serious challenge are bone necs and tele wind druids. in terms of dueling opponents with some skill that are actually prepared for you and being able to handle any situation, lib is easily one of the best 2 or 3 in pvp.

[fugitive alien2]

I sort of understood that. =/ Liberators do ok, but you do need teleport if you want to stand a chance. Hammers alone without teleport are squat, especially against necros.

you don't need teleport to win, even against necros (unless they prison you or bw around themselves). hammerdin can move faster and react much faster with vigor-charge than with tele, and desynch allows you to use hammers offensively if necessary.

combined use of vigor-charge and tele is what's really deadly, although not many do it.

[Phyrexial]

I've just been messing around with my MF hammerdin in pubbies (season 2 ladder) and so far the most troublesome things I've met are windforce bowzons (knockback is annoying) and trappers. Both of these probably would be significantly easier if I was a Liberator as opposed to a Hammerdin. Especially the bowzon. Charging with a Wizspike = bad. :lol:

[LLD-Vampire]

I've just been messing around with my MF hammerdin in pubbies (season 2 ladder) and so far the most troublesome things I've met are windforce bowzons (knockback is annoying) and trappers. Both of these probably would be significantly easier if I was a Liberator as opposed to a Hammerdin. Especially the bowzon. Charging with a Wizspike = bad. :lol:
I made my first hammerdin this season so I've never done one with an enigma. I hate him, hitting single monsters makes me want to puke. BLAHH!! So annoying when they get REALLY lucky and just bearly move away from hammer. Anyway I've been dueling non tele hammerdins with my vt. For the most part I win. I either wait until they get bored of standing there casting (usually with my **** *** weak FoH, still wears them down) then the second they move I charge them. Wash rinse repeat. If they charge you just stay below them and smite them then vigor charge away. If OW hits and hurts em enough FoH and they're dead. As dumbpig kindly tells everyone in all his posts everyone is "500x better than me" if I can kill non tele hammerdins you better watch out for v/ts that arn't me!

[Module88]

you don't need teleport to win, even against necros (unless they prison you or bw around themselves). hammerdin can move faster and react much faster with vigor-charge than with tele, and desynch allows you to use hammers offensively if necessary.

combined use of vigor-charge and tele is what's really deadly, although not many do it.

Vigor charge can easily be blocked by obstacles and a bit of lag (you know, where you get stuck trying to enter town in act one sometimes). Even with vigor charge, a necro with teleport has a much greater offensive capability than you. Beyond that, even with vigor charge, his teeth still have a relatively good chance of hitting you.

[fugitive alien2]

Vigor charge can easily be blocked by obstacles and a bit of lag (you know, where you get stuck trying to enter town in act one sometimes). Even with vigor charge, a necro with teleport has a much greater offensive capability than you. Beyond that, even with vigor charge, his teeth still have a relatively good chance of hitting you.

namelock offensive vigor charge is unavoidable if thats what you're talking about. i'm talking about using vigor charge to strategically place invis hammers.

anyway, i didn't say necro wouldn't have the advantage, but i've beat quite a few tele necros without teleporting.

[Module88]

namelock offensive vigor charge is unavoidable if thats what you're talking about. i'm talking about using vigor charge to strategically place invis hammers.

anyway, i didn't say necro wouldn't have the advantage, but i've beat quite a few tele necros without teleporting.

No, I'm talking about charge. ALL charge forms. At least, what happens to me is, if I charge by an obstacle, say a pond, but charge too close to it as I'm manuevering, I'd get stuck. It would in a sense, dysynch me. Beating tele necros simply means that they blow. How you'd possibly cast hammers and dysynch them without them nailing you (or teleporting far away to avoid hammers, dysynch or no dysynch) is beyond me.

[fugitive alien2]

No, I'm talking about charge. ALL charge forms. At least, what happens to me is, if I charge by an obstacle, say a pond, but charge too close to it as I'm manuevering, I'd get stuck. It would in a sense, dysynch me. Beating tele necros simply means that they blow. How you'd possibly cast hammers and dysynch them without them nailing you (or teleporting far away to avoid hammers, dysynch or no dysynch) is beyond me.

the only time i'm stopped by obstacles that aren't actually targeted by charge is when they're right in front of me when i start the charge.

necs can't nail you if you're invisible and don't wait in one spot long enough for bs to catch up. and if you can anticipate their movements tele or otherwise you can have invis hammers waiting for them. defensive use of bw will stop desyncher, but otherwise it can be done even against necs with some skill.

[luis19]

you can still beat a skilled necro with a liberator. if you get a namelock charge and hit, the necro is pretty much screwed.

making hammerfields everywhere will also limit the area a necro can tele, and many pubby necros will die from this. even skilled ones will make a mistake.

if the necro has bad fhr, u can also try charge+smite, works wonders on any char with low fhr like windys.

[Module88]

necs can't nail you if you're invisible and don't wait in one spot long enough for bs to catch up. and if you can anticipate their movements tele or otherwise you can have invis hammers waiting for them. defensive use of bw will stop desyncher, but otherwise it can be done even against necs with some skill.

BS? Why would they use BS? I'm not talking about crummy necros here. If anything, I'd say close to equal skill. If the hammerdin was able to dysynch/make invisible hammers, it's not fair at all to compare it to a crap necro user.

you can still beat a skilled necro with a liberator. if you get a namelock charge and hit, the necro is pretty much screwed.

making hammerfields everywhere will also limit the area a necro can tele, and many pubby necros will die from this. even skilled ones will make a mistake.

if the necro has bad fhr, u can also try charge+smite, works wonders on any char with low fhr like windys.

How is the necro screwed? Bone armor? If you can somehow make hammer fields everywhere and have him tele into it, then you are dueling a pretty crummy necro. Again, comparing a good hammerdin to a crummy necro isn't fair at all. Charge+smite doesn't do crap. Smite on its own doesn't really stun anything, and if anything, his bone armor grants him a lot of extra physical protection. Windy druids have oak sage to give them a large amount of life. I'd say they can take a LOT more smites than you can take Tornadoes or Spears.

[luis19]

a liberator can get more life than a windy if im not mistaken.
mine had 3.5k.
9k charge 9k hammers
~6k tornado dmg thats cut down to 50% after dr.

you can kb druid with charge and hammer them if u miss.

necros r a different story. a liberator will stand no chance vs a skilled necro unless he/she makes a mistake.

and a necro good or not can run into a hammerfield when they dont know its there.

charge will take down bone armor in like 1 hit and it can kb the necro for consecutive hits. assuming the liberator has 9k charge dmg, the neco will die in 1-3 hits. if you miss, you can always hammer if your in the right spot or smite since it is auto hit and should do around 1k dmg with HoZ.

[fugitive alien2]

BS? Why would they use BS?

why would they limit themselves to just spear/teeth? the toughest necros i've dueled alternate all 3 attacks depending on the situation.

[HandofElysium]

why would they limit themselves to just spear/teeth? the toughest necros i've dueled alternate all 3 attacks depending on the situation.



The good necros if you try to invisble hammer/dysync they will just sit back and spam Invisible Bone Spirit all day.

I agree though that the hammerdin/variant is probably the top 3 pvp builds in the game. I think that if blizz made those runewords that reduced magic damage the Lib will still be tough because they still have basically double the magic damage of a necro and they have a physical damage attack of charge. :D

[ThereisnoPeace]

The good necros if you try to invisble hammer/dysync they will just sit back and spam Invisible Bone Spirit all day.

I agree though that the hammerdin/variant is probably the top 3 pvp builds in the game. I think that if blizz made those runewords that reduced magic damage the Lib will still be tough because they still have basically double the magic damage of a necro and they have a physical damage attack of charge. :D

I believe if, blizz made those runewords, we would be tougher to an extent, stating our only real problems are vs. necros, we would be able to take more dmg from them, and necs being as fragile as they are, they would still be 1-2 hit hammer ko's

[Module88]

why would they limit themselves to just spear/teeth? the toughest necros i've dueled alternate all 3 attacks depending on the situation.

Maybe we're on the wrong page. Are we talking about lib vs necro with teleport?

[ThereisnoPeace]

Maybe we're on the wrong page. Are we talking about lib vs necro with teleport?

yes, err, I think so...

[CookiesnCream]

I have a pure hammerdin that uses charge + vigor to lay hammer fields fast and to catch up to defensive teleporting MF sorcs. I don't have much troulbe against anything except for towngaurding trapsins, some zons, and a good necro. I find that a good necro is impossible to beat with a hammerdin. I too, have killed plenty of teleporting necros but they sucked. They either teleport right into a hammerfield and die, or they try to teleport on top of me and a hammer hits them and they die.

[TheCerberus]

I'm planning out my hammerdin for Classic dueling, he'll be all vita with around 1700 life with no BO, 8k dmg. With BH, Conc, Vigor, and Charge on keys a,s,z,x next to shift. if I'm playing against bonemancers will I be able to get in close to hit with hammers, or do I have to draw him into hammer fields somehow?

[Kazuya-Mishima]

well first of all i dont think u need to be classified as liberator to use a mele wep or to do good against amazonz etc. i use to just switch to eth botd zerk to charge a zon or trapper (didnt carry wep around 24-7)so i was kinda liberator but not really - i maxed all the hammer skills but at 94 i also got like lvl 22+ fant. (i found zeal w/ eth botd + fant was good vs good trappers who expected a hammer teleport). However in general i find charging and vigoring to be more on the defensive side. It is more useful for escaping som1 on u or avoiding something. Its not really practical in offensively attacking som1. All they have to do is start teleporting away or start making ur charge lock ---then ur an ez target. Also the fact that even if u lay invis hammer ur hoping they will try to chase u /attack/come after u, thus run into it (defensive). i just dont like the un even off/def thats mainly it. However i dont deny that charge is very useful especially vs incredibly cheap players (aka summon stack)but if u saw 2 liberators fighting each other there is a whole lot of laying of fields and no chasing-- kinda makes the duel a bore. Teleport has alot of good surpise aspects offensively - can lock and catch som1 by suprise,(when they are on the run) but im sure since the majority of d2 players are enigma dependant that i dont have to explain all that, -i do wish all paladins could be forced to use charge :) and that enigma was gone but right now i think in order to be balanced u gota use teleport.

[excellence]

125% fcr helps vs. defensive boner necros when using tele. makes dodging spirits and chasing down necros alot easier.

and no, tele isnt required vs. necros, but it makes it easier. still laying down fields of invisi hammers works well.