View Full Version : Pvp orb sorc still viable???
is orb still viable with max ivebolt/orb/mast?
trying to get +2nightwings w cold facet
+3 cold ammy
15%ormus with cold facet
etc
Phyrexial
31-07-2004, 01:37
Provided they don't just slap on two Ravens, sure its viable.
LLD-Vampire
31-07-2004, 01:41
Provided they don't just slap on two Ravens, sure its viable.
Ravens are nothing only thing to stop a cold sorc is massive cold resist stacking. I've got a 3 cold skill 85 life ammy on uswest ladder if your interested.
AndyChrono
31-07-2004, 01:55
Yea. 2 Ravens aren't a problem unless they slap on Blackoak as well...or a 160 shield and other resist stacking; but with that, even a blizz sorc will have problems =D
LLD-Vampire
31-07-2004, 02:01
Yea. 2 Ravens aren't a problem unless they slap on Blackoak as well...or a 160 shield and other resist stacking; but with that, even a blizz sorc will have problems =D
2 ravens black oak nightwings GA all nothing unless you have HUGE cold resist. the 160 cold res shield would be best (higher if pally)
Soepgroente
31-07-2004, 02:03
Any elemental attack in this game is negatable, except poison and magic if you call that elemental. So that shouldn't be an argument. Yes they're really good, though you won't go far in pubbies for mentioned reasons.
LLD-Vampire
31-07-2004, 02:07
People don't carry around anti cold gear as much as anti light. Since most cold is blizzard sorcs most don't bother because it's so hard to negate blizz enough for it to matter. Most just don't get hit. You could do good and maybe have a second element? (enchant+widdow maker?)
People don't carry around anti cold gear as much as anti light. Since most cold is blizzard sorcs most don't bother because it's so hard to negate blizz enough for it to matter. Most just don't get hit. You could do good and maybe have a second element? (enchant+widdow maker?)
the not-so prepared ones dont carry anti cold gear. i have anti fire-cold-light gear if needed. always good to have it ready if things get dicey.
orb sorcs suck in pubbies
u wont kill anyone cause orb kills too slow and they'll run before they die
and u wont die either since mostly likely ull have 80% + eshield, backed with 20 telekinesis
in priv they're as good as any other class
1k Orb
1/6 pvp about 160ish.
-100 resist, 300ish. (I'm just rounding ^_^)
40% absorb, 80% negated. 60 dmg. 50~ Cold absorb from luna, = 100 negated = negated 1k orb with no resist stack.
Keep in mind the numbers aren't close to exact, but you get my point.
LLD-Vampire
31-07-2004, 06:08
1k Orb
1/6 pvp about 160ish.
-100 resist, 300ish. (I'm just rounding ^_^)
40% absorb, 80% negated. 60 dmg. 50~ Cold absorb from luna, = 100 negated = negated 1k orb with no resist stack.
Keep in mind the numbers aren't close to exact, but you get my point.
pshhh you know what I mean.
2 ravens black oak nightwings GA all nothing unless you have HUGE cold resist. the 160 cold res shield would be best (higher if pally)
No, I don't know what you mean.
LLD-Vampire
31-07-2004, 06:16
No, I don't know what you mean.
Thats a lot of gear to absorb cold in a pubby game. Guess I was wrong but resist would still be easier.
Inuyasha
31-07-2004, 06:18
Isn't absorb capped at 40% anyways?
Isn't absorb capped at 40% anyways?
My example was 40% there buddy.
Inuyasha
31-07-2004, 06:39
Crap.... right...
Need more coffee....
Phyrexial
31-07-2004, 06:57
2 Ravens will cut down the damage quite a bit. 2 Ravens and a Blackoak, even with negative resists, will totally negate all damage from Orb after the first hit. Massive stacked resists are only a necessity for Blizz sorcs.
AndyChrono
31-07-2004, 07:22
2 Ravens will cut down the damage quite a bit. 2 Ravens and a Blackoak, even with negative resists, will totally negate all damage from Orb after the first hit. Massive stacked resists are only a necessity for Blizz sorcs.
Everyone knows that :yep:
Generally, Orb is fine in pubbies if you couple it with ES. If someone slaps on 2 ravens and luna, you know they are SPECIFICALLY out to kill you. What I do is piss them off intentionally with 95% ES, tele away, and regen life. Basic idea is: "If I can't hurt you, I'll make damn sure you won't hurt me either." And since an Orb/ES build takes negligable damage from most classes, I'll just find a guy who can kill the absorber, attract his attention, and turn the absorber into his/her collateral damage :winner:
dumbpig is right about private duels. Orb is just as good as any other sorc build there.
fugitive alien2
31-07-2004, 08:47
dumbpig is right about private duels. Orb is just as good as any other sorc build there.
lol that's not even close to true. even with restrictions on absorb orb is too easy to negate. adequate stack and 1 raven will cut it to next to nothing.
bliz, fireball, and lightning builds are all much tougher to deal with.
for the unprepared orb is extremly deadly. but for people that are prepared u orb wont hurt u too much.
LLD-Vampire
31-07-2004, 08:52
lol that's not even close to true. even with restrictions on absorb orb is too easy to negate. adequate stack and 1 raven will cut it to next to nothing.
bliz, fireball, and lightning builds are all much tougher to deal with.
1000/6=166
166X.10=16 damage is TEH pwnzage! Snowclash +resist alone makes orb USELESS.
Looks liky piggys wrong
look lld-vamp do i hafta cite youre pathetic display of tele necro skill and how it got zealed to death by my barb using a passion warspike, while abstaining from tele?......
or the time your druid decided to tank my barb using a lidless?
pretty much shows you how little you play in pubbies (ahem, how much you play AT ALL). in a pubbie, nobody will bother to change gear. thats because if you put on snowclash blackoak 2 ravens and 4x thul everything, the other trapsin/fire sorc/barb/pally is going to own u in one hit. i guess maybe YOU are stupid enough to think of changing on absorb in a pubby, but no sensible person would
in priv duels, if they absorb to hell, then just don't fight them... its priv duels...
im sure everyone here knows that snowclash, oak, and 2 ravens plus alot of stacking will negate blizzard and orb. you don't have to notifty us of your discovery, lld-vamp, since its only a discovery to you. obviously, this discovery hasn't been with you for much time, other wise you would have realized like me that through all the years of LOD i've played, i've been absorbed maybe five times in a pubby (aside from whites), and all those occasions, the absorb-gear changer got instantly killed by the other players
1000/6=166
166X.10=16 damage is TEH pwnzage! Snowclash +resist alone makes orb USELESS.
Looks liky piggys wrong
look who needs to play diablo and stop reading arreat summit while jacking off
orb with proper gear is about 1300 damage, up to 1500 damage with facets and things. it'll end up with about -225% emeny cold resist, which means in hell u need four hundred cold res to get to 75%. at 75%, it'll do 1300/24 = 54 damage per shard. everyone these days uses cast rings, which obviously you havent noticed since you don't play at all. that means if someone has ravens, and simultaneously stacks four hundred cold reisst, he will not take significant damage.
since its a pubbie, thats what a wf-using rogue merc is for.
o yea, i have not heard of any char functioning too well overall while wearing 400% cold resist and using up the ring slots on ravens
u wana take any of your chars, put a snowclash and ravens on it, and fight andychrono? lol... u cant even kill a zeal barb with your necro
1500 orb, this is PERFECT.
About 240 damage after pvp penalty.
-100 resist, 480 dmg.
80% reduced. About 90 dmg.
Luna, absorbs 61 at 99, a good number is 55, heal 55, take 35, you've just negated a 1500 orb with no resist stack, 2x raven and luna.
alright... and a luna gives how much damage reduction? and u'd lose a cast frame most likely, and that makes u shot up by rogue merc in like 2 shots
gg absorber owned
tiger-bunny
31-07-2004, 10:31
lol dimoak u forgot about cold mastery and -res from facets, with bad resists u can still hurt someone wearing blackoak ravens and snowclash
alright... and a luna gives how much damage reduction? and u'd lose a cast frame most likely, and that makes u shot up by rogue merc in like 2 shots
gg absorber owned
Not everyone relies on rings/shields for cast rate. Many builds have no problems kill a rogue merc either. It's not like they're hard to dodge.
Edit - Tiger bunny, my calculation factored -100 cold resist. Check again bud :)
1500 orb, this is PERFECT.
About 240 damage after pvp penalty.
-100 resist, 480 dmg.
80% reduced. About 90 dmg.
Luna, absorbs 61 at 99, a good number is 55, heal 55, take 35, you've just negated a 1500 orb with no resist stack, 2x raven and luna.
where did you get 80% reduced?
2xravens is only 40%
where did you get 80% reduced?
2xravens is only 40%
40% absorb = 80% reduced, providing you've lost enough life. How it'll happen, you'll take a bit at first, then heal, then take more, but your life will never go down too much.
LLD-Vampire
31-07-2004, 10:46
where did you get 80% reduced?
2xravens is only 40%
40% absorbed which is like 80% negated
LLD-Vampire
31-07-2004, 10:51
look lld-vamp do i hafta cite youre pathetic display of tele necro skill and how it got zealed to death by my barb using a passion warspike, while abstaining from tele?......
or the time your druid decided to tank my barb using a lidless?
pretty much shows you how little you play in pubbies (ahem, how much you play AT ALL). in a pubbie, nobody will bother to change gear. thats because if you put on snowclash blackoak 2 ravens and 4x thul everything, the other trapsin/fire sorc/barb/pally is going to own u in one hit. i guess maybe YOU are stupid enough to think of changing on absorb in a pubby, but no sensible person would
in priv duels, if they absorb to hell, then just don't fight them... its priv duels...
im sure everyone here knows that snowclash, oak, and 2 ravens plus alot of stacking will negate blizzard and orb. you don't have to notifty us of your discovery, lld-vamp, since its only a discovery to you. obviously, this discovery hasn't been with you for much time, other wise you would have realized like me that through all the years of LOD i've played, i've been absorbed maybe five times in a pubby (aside from whites), and all those occasions, the absorb-gear changer got instantly killed by the other players
Oops get over it. The wind druid used ss and I never really dueled you with it.
Now that your greatest moment in history is out of the way. I was under the impression that a snowclash (ALONE) wasnt a lot of absorb. I could care less what others can do I'll drink a thawing put on salv and a wiz. Bye sorc.... OOPS OMFG OMFG THAWING IS TEH NOOB. Nope don't care. 1000 was just an estimate.
Why can't dumbpig be banned? He has a snuff fettish with necs and doesn't seem to stop flaming me? BTW 1-2k damage not so godly on a rogue hell you could probably just FoH one to death.
I dueled a lvl 37 Orber by the name of orb_lld last night. She was pretty good. I dont' know how much cast rate she had but she was able to tele in circles around me and some other duelers while spamming orbs in her opponent's direction.
Even with 75 res and some extra for buffer, she defeated me easily the first round. Second round, i went with a little more brains and less straightforward action and mind blasted her to keep her still for my dflight and some dtalon. It worked pretty well and i won that match, but had I not been able to stun her, it would've been gg for me.
I'm fairly sure that orb is still vaible given good equipment.
AndyChrono
31-07-2004, 23:03
lol that's not even close to true. even with restrictions on absorb orb is too easy to negate. adequate stack and 1 raven will cut it to next to nothing.
bliz, fireball, and lightning builds are all much tougher to deal with.
With adequate resist stack/absorb, no elemental attack is going to be doing any damage, including your precious bliz, fireball, and lightning. Since when is stacking to the point of negation allowed in private dueling? Sounds more like a pubby to me.
If you just stack to achieve 75% resist and use 1 raven, a 1.2k orb does 30 damage a shard. Maybe to you that seems little, but I can manage with that. Frankly, its about the same damage that a 6k Bone Spear does to my sorc with 95% ES and just the 13 MDR from Vipermagi. WW from a barb? Sorry, ES coupled with max block means that barbs that don't use at least 2 ravens usually die long before I do. In a private duel, you generally aren't allowed to run to town, so I can take my sweet time orbing them slowly to death with 30 damage a shard. Pubbies are different since people run, chicken, pot, well, and shrine.
Orion241
02-08-2004, 02:35
Has anyone ever dueled on US EAST Ladder with a pvp orb sorc known as "God_Muta"(sp?). This guy is insanely good(cheap =)) He has insane FCR so I can't out-tele him worth a dam, and one orb shreds my lvl 43 cyclone armor. He made my previously undefeated wind druid look like an amatuer. Wonder what his setup was...
He made my previously undefeated wind druid look like an amatuer. Wonder what his setup was...
Was that your first duel?
LLD-Vampire
02-08-2004, 03:07
previously undefeated wind druid
*cough* bullll ****ttyyyyssss!! *cough*
If you can't keep recasting cyclone armor theres something wrong with you :)
Orion241
02-08-2004, 03:55
::sigh:: No it wasn't my first duel. And the orbs shredded and killed before i could recast. If any of you doubt the viability of my druid you're welcome to give him a go. Leave your account name here.
::sigh:: No it wasn't my first duel. And the orbs shredded and killed before i could recast. If any of you doubt the viability of my druid you're welcome to give him a go. Leave your account name here.
Cyclone absorbs like 2.5k
a 1.5k orb (assuming perfect :) does 250~ pvp damage. That means he'd need to hit you ten times with one orb just to take down your cyclone...You should have recasted, if you didn't you shouldn't be playin druid.
if you can aim the orb you can easily get 10-20 hits in..
if you can aim the orb you can easily get 10-20 hits in..
lmao. Sure against a person who is standing still.
mepersoner
02-08-2004, 05:35
if you can aim the orb you can easily get 10-20 hits in..
Actually, no.
Maybe not 10-20, I dont know the exact number, but everyone knows that if you aim the orb so that the ball "explodes" on the target, it does exponentially more damage than otherwise, now, if you aim it so that the target walks WITH the orb, they are in for a lot of hurtin.
LordDrift
02-08-2004, 20:53
lol dumbpig, hey is it true you in Xe now?
DragonKnight_Aka
02-08-2004, 22:49
K look again...
Yes orb sorcs still can be used in dueling and still can kick butt. Using ES will help u live longer but maxing it is a bad idea. Even with telekisn ( I can't spell)
it only gose to lvl 20 and it helps make u lose less mana but not a lot.
Look
Charge pally damage he can do is 39k
sorc with max es
39k after pvp = 6500
6500 after maxed es= 325
325 after damage reduced = 162.5
so u take 162.5 life
now for the mana part
39k after pvp=6500
6500 after maxed es= 6175
so u lose 6175 mana
if u wanna look at this better go to the sorc forum about es
And yes it's true people can full abosrb u ........ but hey u have to deal with it or use a Merc. Try getting another dueling char.
As for the people who would use stacked resist, some do and some don't u have to see by using maphack or just orb and tele away to see if they take any damage.
No matter how much cast rate u have orb won't cast any faster and specialy if u cast orb and tele away. If u do get 2 orbs then thats just a glitch cuz the 2nd orb don't really hurt anything. I don't know how many times orb hits ( I won't go thier ) lol. Thats all
AndyChrono
03-08-2004, 01:05
K look again...
Yes orb sorcs still can be used in dueling and still can kick butt. Using ES will help u live longer but maxing it is a bad idea. Even with telekisn ( I can't spell)
No. Maxing ES makes FO sorcs infinitely more effective against nearly all matchups. With your charge paladin example, Chargers don't do 39k average damage. Even if they did, would you prefer a good portion of that 39k damage go to your life instead? I think that would certainly end the duel right there.
Frankly there's only 1 matchup I can think of where'd you "might" be better off not using max ES and that's against a trapper. Other than that Max ES > No/Little ES for Orb sorcs.
DragonKnight_Aka
03-08-2004, 02:19
No. Maxing ES makes FO sorcs infinitely more effective against nearly all matchups. With your charge paladin example, Chargers don't do 39k average damage. Even if they did, would you prefer a good portion of that 39k damage go to your life instead? I think that would certainly end the duel right there.
Frankly there's only 1 matchup I can think of where'd you "might" be better off not using max ES and that's against a trapper. Other than that Max ES > No/Little ES for Orb sorcs.
MMmm true true and I heard that from some guy who said they can do 39k damage hey I don't know lol anyway maxed ES can be good. But why waste points into Es when u can get max block :-). ( Still not gonna brother with how many times orb hits). The problem to me is sorcs need mana cuz it works like this
No mana = no spells
Unless ur a melee sorc.
I need to understand that ES formula I get it for Life / mana part but when u put in teleksis and other stuff then I just get losted :scratch:
CookiesnCream
06-08-2004, 02:12
A good FO sorc is a viable dueler but they have a bad name because so many people bring their 300 damage FO MF sorcs into dueling games.
UserMathias
08-08-2004, 00:21
Maybe not 10-20, I dont know the exact number, but everyone knows that if you aim the orb so that the ball "explodes" on the target, it does exponentially more damage than otherwise, now, if you aim it so that the target walks WITH the orb, they are in for a lot of hurtin.
I've heard that the maximum number of shards an opponent can take from a single orb is 14. Could be, but I wouldn't bet my life on it.
As for the whole "FO can be absorbed" argument, here's my 2 cents:
There are, like, 5? pvp builds that cannot be absorbed. With you being a pure elemental and all, guess which group that falls in... So basically, absorb is something you can't do anything about anyways.
Duel privately! Clan/league/friends/etc. -Blackoak/Rising sun/the like are usually banned items.
You guys should be a bit more open minded.
Orb + Cold Mastery + Synergy still only equals 60 points. That still gives you some room to diverge into other elementals, possibly, considering if their throwing all their absorb into cold. Not too viable actually when I think about it, but you could think of it this way.
Orb + Cold Mastery alone does decent damage, to the point where they probably will throw on all their absorb, and then you could then use another skill to duel with? A fireball perhaps? If you have approximately 60 points to put into a fire tree, how much damage could you manage with a fireball? 2k?
ES is good, but IMO not really worth the points. If you get hit and you lose all your mana, you can't tele away, unless you block several attacks (which is possible) and regenerate your mana quickly enough to tele. I know that ww characters, or a kicksin can strike quickly and rapidly laying waste to you, and thus your ES which you spent 40 skill points on, didn't help you too much.
All in all, orb is just as good as other duelers, in the fact that it offers versatility and creativity for the rest of your points.
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