best armor for wwsin =bramble or enigma ?

[mugenll]

which 1 is best the armor for wwsin ^^

[TJTG]

If you use Venom, use Bramble (3 socketed 5/5 facet into say, Nat's armour is pretty good too).

If you want to make a base str assassin use Enigma. Honestly, though the armour itself is quite nice, the mods aren't that great for a WWsin.

[LLD-Vampire]

Bramble 100%. If your a wwsin without venom you should remake your char. Enigma is TERRIBLE for a wwsin only slightly useful is the str which isn't really all that needed.

[Speederländer]

Bramble 100%. If your a wwsin without venom you should remake your char. Enigma is TERRIBLE for a wwsin only slightly useful is the str which isn't really all that needed.

Really? So, what is the PvP venom damage for level 40 venom with trangs/bramble vs. 85% res (achievable by drinking an antidote potion before the duel as a pre-buff)? Now, compare this poison damage to the PvP critical/deadly strike physical damage + PvP magic from chaos and OW. What does it look like?

Pulling a number out of thin air, let's assume 2K poison damage. That's 333 PvP damage. After 85% res it's 50 damage. That's not particularly impressive. Also, the .4 second duration only means as much as the ww speed, as you will apply only as fast as you can hit, which isn't screaming fast in any event.

NOTE: 85% poison res is NOT that hard to get if you already have reasonable res in hell.


Please correct me if I'm wrong but I just don't see venom as the primary WW killer vs. experienced duelers.

[Caerbannog]

Neither of those 2.
Sure bramble gives you 2-3 useful mods, but I'd still pick a Chains of Honor over it any day. It is THE ultimate melee (at least) PvM armor. Valor would be cool too, Hell, even a Duress would kick more *** in PvM. If it's for PvP... then I will pick... hmm.... I will pick... Valor. Skills, hit rec, defense, life, 1 socket.
Enigma on a WWsin (martial artist, u CAN waste 4 points to get dragon flight) is useless :P

[alzz]

iF you choose to either make enigma or bramble, what would be the best armor to make it in? would it be elite armors or like kodachi said, a light or breast plate to save having to add points into str for the str req.

[TheKbob]

Buff with a +2 armor and use Duress. Run off OW more than Psn Dmg. 33% OW + Dracs OW + Gores is 73%. So about 3 out of every 4 hits will trigger ow. Psn is just a nice addition. Also, CB isnt that bad either.

My friend, one of the best Barb duelers on Useast was killed by a newber barb that used 100% OW. I have seen super barbs die to WW assassins due to OW.

~Kbob

[-[$]tea|th-]

Agreed. I have been arguing using any poison dmg at all in duels as a WWsin. Way back when ppl forst started talking about the potential of a WWsin in duels. Poison, like all elements is just too easy to counter. OW/CD/DS (all on Gore Riders) are...umm, inevitable (for lack of a better word).
About the whole armour thing... it depends on your other equipment really. For example: CoA (2 sockets ED jewls) Steelrends LionHeart. Whatever you get mad +ED.
Or if you want to OW effect do as Klob said. and max DFlight instead DFlight will own all casters. Well theres my 2cents

[Speederländer]

tea|th-']Agreed. I have been arguing using any poison dmg at all in duels as a WWsin. Way back when ppl forst started talking about the potential of a WWsin in duels. Poison, like all elements is just too easy to counter. OW/CD/DS (all on Gore Riders) are...umm, inevitable (for lack of a better word).
About the whole armour thing... it depends on your other equipment really. For example: CoA (2 sockets ED jewls) Steelrends LionHeart. Whatever you get mad +ED.
Or if you want to OW effect do as Klob said. and max DFlight instead DFlight will own all casters. Well theres my 2cents

DF won't "own" all casters, even if you have 100% OW.

[D1ce]

Enigma, accept no substitues. Bramble is useful as well, but only fore prebuffing. The amount of mobility Enigma offers is just too tempting to let up on, especially if you know how to use it.

[Canuckian]

Really? So, what is the PvP venom damage for level 40 venom with trangs/bramble vs. 85% res (achievable by drinking an antidote potion before the duel as a pre-buff)? Now, compare this poison damage to the PvP critical/deadly strike physical damage + PvP magic from chaos and OW. What does it look like?

Pulling a number out of thin air, let's assume 2K poison damage. That's 333 PvP damage. After 85% res it's 50 damage. That's not particularly impressive. Also, the .4 second duration only means as much as the ww speed, as you will apply only as fast as you can hit, which isn't screaming fast in any event.

NOTE: 85% poison res is NOT that hard to get if you already have reasonable res in hell.

101.7
Please correct me if I'm wrong but I just don't see venom as the primary WW killer vs. experienced duelers.

Well if you use 10 shadow charms, +2sin or +3 shadow ammy, anhi, x2 sojs, archanids mesh, +2 armor, shako(or other +2sin/shadow helm), and two claws with +3 shadow skills or venom. That gives you a lvl 46 venom which does 1285-1305 over 0.4 seconds with a duration of 300 seconds. if your using trangs and bramble for %ehnd psn dmg(and assuming perfect bramble) that's 75%enhanced poison dmg. Depending on what helmis used and what the second claw is, there could be another 1-3 facets thrown in there, for another 15%enhanced psn dmg.

which means that you are doing 1285-1305 * 1.9 = 2441.5-2479.5. For pvp this damage works out to 406.92-413.25. Assuming 75%res because it's easier, that makes the damage work out to 101.72-103.32 per 0.4 seconds. This means your actual damage per second is 101.72-103.32*2.5 or 254.3-258.28. Again that is only the damage delt per second, how is that useless?

Furthermore if your rich non-ladder and were able to find +3shadow skills +3venow claws x2, and use shadow dancers with +2 your venom damage increases to 1565-1585 per 0.4 seconds.

1565-1585 * 1.9 = 2974.5-3011.5
2974.5-3011.5 * pvp penalty = 495.75-501.92
495.75-501.92 *75 res = 123.94-125.48
123.94-125.48 * 2.5 to find damage per second = 309.85-313.7

Obviously my numbers are a requiring you to have a highlevel venom, but like you said, its not worth it unless it's a highlevel. Still having 2k psn dmg before pvp/opponents res is still about 200avg psn dmg/sec which is quite good so it does have its benefits.

I rounded up for all calculations, so i might be off by a few numbers.

[Caerbannog]

If anyone ever uses a +2 armor for prebuff and then dumps in it their stash i will come over and tattoo "dumb rich bastard" on their foreheads :(
My sins can't do the ballerina move cause I can't afford an Ohm :( :(

Btw, does the "chance to cast orb" work with Dragon talon? :)

[ik_iron]

Buff with a +2 armor and use Duress. Run off OW more than Psn Dmg. 33% OW + Dracs OW + Gores is 73%. So about 3 out of every 4 hits will trigger ow. Psn is just a nice addition. Also, CB isnt that bad either.

My friend, one of the best Barb duelers on Useast was killed by a newber barb that used 100% OW. I have seen super barbs die to WW assassins due to OW.

~Kbob

You forgot about the 25 in Chaos. I think Duress is the best armor, if you can I think prebuffing with a bramble would be good. Even though I don't think anyone should rest on beating people with a high level venom, I think it is critical because once you apply everything together it makes for a very deadly combo.

[ttd-gap]

Wow there are a lot of uneducated posts in this thread.

VENOM DOES NOT GO THROUGH PVP PENALTY!!!!
YOU LOOSE THE %ED FROM BRAMBLE WHEN YOU SWITCH ARMORS, PRE-BUFFING DOESN'T HELP!!!

Now that that is out of the way lets talk....

BRAMBLE. I do keep an enigma in my stash for very specific duels, mostly zons w/ knock back. Your claws should be fury/chaos while leading with fury to get its bonuses. Venom does 3k damage with a good bramble setup which means that your oponent looses 750 life per hit with 75% res. If you need mobility switch your shako for a 08 valk vs casters but shako is still godly. Nat's is just not as good compared to bramble/enigma. Too high a str req for inferior bonuses. I have a coh in my inventory, sometimes I bust it out against foh pallies but I'm still undecided as to its usefullness, and once again it is only helpfull against a couple builds in particular where as bramble helps against EVERY opponent.

Also you will loose against other ww sins if you dont use bramble. It is also your best bet against ww barbs.

[Speederländer]

Wow there are a lot of uneducated posts in this thread.

VENOM DOES NOT GO THROUGH PVP PENALTY!!!!


Just ran a test:

1000 life zon, -10 total poison res.

level 20 venom, 425 to 445 poison damage
1-5 damage knife
normal attack
total damage listed = 428 to 462 (venom + physical damage of knife)

I expect, if venom does NOT go through the PvP penalty, to see at least 425 life gone from a single hit. (Actually it should be a bit more because she has -10 poison res.)

I struck her 3 times. The results:
110 damage
107 damage
108 damage


So you are wrong. It does go through a significant penalty. Though it seems to be slightly less than 1/6 perhaps closer to 1/4 or 1/5.

[Speederländer]

This means your actual damage per second is 101.72-103.32*2.5 or 254.3-258.28. Again that is only the damage delt per second, how is that useless?

How does actual damage per second matter at all? It will apply PER ATTACK. What matters is how many times you hit. Are you hitting continuously every .4 seconds without let-up? NO (perhaps as a kicker you are). There is significant time between each WW as you try to DF or tele in for the next attack. Trying to show venom is high damage by pointing to the duration doesn't wash. The duration is fast, fast enough to be able to consider it instantaneous and to add the final damage directly TO EACH WW STRIKE. But you can't say it's going to cause "x damage" per second when that isn't really the case.

[dumbpig]

pretty simple answer.. engima..

bramble : gives u like 50 more effective pvp damage vs 75 res opponent. plus some resists and fhr and stuff.

engima: gives u about 50 more effective pvp damage in PHYSICAL due to the str bonus. also... have you ever thought about finishing a ww with 0439721 spirits on ur ***, and dragon flight is still on delay? teleport.... ww sin has to hit and run at least a few times against a good caster, and each one of those times he's going to get pounded if he does get out of there via teleport quickly

[squigipapa]

I struck her 3 times. The results:
110 damage
107 damage
108 damage


So you are wrong. It does go through a significant penalty. Though it seems to be slightly less than 1/6 perhaps closer to 1/4 or 1/5.

Ya, it does seem a bit high to be 1/6 .. If you still have the testing set up, you should try it while doing ww, as I suggested in your thread on the subject.. perhaps, if some bug does exist .. it's something like venom not going through the PvP penalty when used with ww .. or something wierd like that.. which would help to explain the question on how ww sin's with ww seem to do such massive damage.. it'll be a little tougher to test with the other added damage of the chaos .. but it could give a little better idea of whether or not there is some substance to these claims..

[Speederländer]

Ya, it does seem a bit high to be 1/6 .. If you still have the testing set up, you should try it while doing ww, as I suggested in your thread on the subject.. perhaps, if some bug does exist .. it's something like venom not going through the PvP penalty when used with ww .. or something wierd like that.. which would help to explain the question on how ww sin's with ww seem to do such massive damage.. it'll be a little tougher to test with the other added damage of the chaos .. but it could give a little better idea of whether or not there is some substance to these claims..

We need a ww sin with massive venom damage to put a chaos on one hand and shield or nothing on the other. I'm not a ww expert. How do we calculate the number of possible hits for a particular claw? The spread of damage on chaos will make this hard. The higher the venom damage, the easier it will be to see if it is exceeding certain damage limits that it shouldn't.

[D1ce]

1565-1585 * 1.9 = 2974.5-3011.5
2974.5-3011.5 * pvp penalty = 495.75-501.92
495.75-501.92 *75 res = 123.94-125.48
123.94-125.48 * 2.5 to find damage per second = 309.85-313.7


You are wrong, 495.75-501.92 *75 res is not 495.75-501.92 123.94-125.48.
I took the number 500 for a rough estimate and multiplied by 75%, the answer is 375. The damage difference is WAY different as you can see.



Wow there are a lot of uneducated posts in this thread.

VENOM DOES NOT GO THROUGH PVP PENALTY!!!!
YOU LOOSE THE %ED FROM BRAMBLE WHEN YOU SWITCH ARMORS, PRE-BUFFING DOESN'T HELP!!!


You are wrong as well, have ever actually pre-buffed Venom? Because if you did, you should know that Venom is a pre-buff able skill, and that if you were to pre-buff Venom without any +PSN DMG Gear, you would have a notciabley less damage than if you pre-buffed. Also, Venom has a hidden bonus where the +Poisen damage gets counted twice. Once on casting, and once on striking.

[Speederländer]

Also, Venom has a hidden bonus where the +Poisen damage gets counted twice. Once on casting, and once on striking.

Could you expand on that? I was unaware of this. How does it work exactly? Perhaps this would explain some discrepancies observed in damage. Thanks.

[D1ce]

I'd do more testing and talking to confirm and double-check this, but probably not tonight :(

[ReallFugitive]

I'd do more testing and talking to confirm and double-check this, but probably not tonight :(

Venom can be stacked. This was a topic a while back, and venom +% poison damage gets boosted effectively two seperate times. Once upon casting then once upon +% skill when actually wearing the item. If removed, the original +% poison damage does stay, but the bonus venom damage from equipping the item is gone. Basically the same thing with Fire Mastery & Enchant. I'm not sure if the secondary +% poison damage is from the base damage venom or from the prebuffed percent.

http://www.rpgforums.net/showthread.php?t=129947

it should explain it more there about +% and prebuffs.

[D1ce]

Thanx Fugitive

[Speederländer]

Venom can be stacked. This was a topic a while back, and venom +% poison damage gets boosted effectively two seperate times. Once upon casting then once upon +% skill when actually wearing the item. If removed, the original +% poison damage does stay, but the bonus venom damage from equipping the item is gone. Basically the same thing with Fire Mastery & Enchant. I'm not sure if the secondary +% poison damage is from the base damage venom or from the prebuffed percent.

http://www.rpgforums.net/showthread.php?t=129947

it should explain it more there about +% and prebuffs.

So that's MASSIVE poison damage from bramble + trangs + facets....

[Groovehawg]

I think poison length reduction also plays a role, here. In hell, there is a -100% PLR penalty (-50% in nightmare, btw). So, against someone with absolutely no PLR gear, you're getting double poison length/double damage.

[Speederländer]

I think poison length reduction also plays a role, here. In hell, there is a -100% PLR penalty (-50% in nightmare, btw). So, against someone with absolutely no PLR gear, you're getting double poison length/double damage.

That's not right I think. There is no double listed damage going on for venom alone that I can see. I am not aware of a PLR penalty. Where is that mentioned on arreat or here? Please link to it. Thanks.

[LLD-Vampire]

Well he said out of the two so I said bramble. I'de go with duress or CoH. Enigma I just don't see the point.... Any assassin can out run bone spirits EASY then just dflight ww the other way. I did this with my kicker (easier with ww since you can ww out of lame prisons)) and hardly ever lost to necs. Forcing them to use something to get their resist up more still weakens them. This is for pubby I'm asuming no one there is smart enough to use antidote pots. (except of course godly blobs here because as we all know he owns all, right....) Oh yeah and with angelic ammy+2 angelic rings I don't think a nec would live through 1 ww and if he did 1 mb and hes gone.

[Phresh]

the main source of dmg from a ww sin is Claw dmg/magic dmg (from Choas)/and CS, OW, DS etc. Venom is actually quite useless, hence the better armor, Enimga.

[ilkori]

the main source of dmg from a ww sin is Claw dmg/magic dmg (from Choas)/and CS, OW, DS etc. Venom is actually quite useless, hence the better armor, Enimga.
*cough* no it isn't! Even with 75 resist all, you can do a LOT of venom damage. It only stops hurting when people boost to 85+ resists with lots of PLR. I know of a kicking/bow dueler who prebuffs venom... and then uses Death's Web. It's a nasty set of combinations, and works quite well, actually.

Again, it takes a lot of PLR to ignore venom... especially if you can hit once every 4 frames.I think poison length reduction also plays a role, here. In hell, there is a -100% PLR penalty (-50% in nightmare, btw). So, against someone with absolutely no PLR gear, you're getting double poison length/double damage.I've heard that too, but I've never seen any proof/evidence for it.

[LLD-Vampire]

the main source of dmg from a ww sin is Claw dmg/magic dmg (from Choas)/and CS, OW, DS etc. Venom is actually quite useless, hence the better armor, Enimga.
That is so false it sickens me. If Venom is "quite useless" why do 99% of wwsins max it and we'll say 70% of them use bramble? Venom is very nice and very useful. But seriously Duress for armor.... (CoH vs elements if you need some resist)

[brianc84]

From a post by Ruvanal at the LL.

Poison Resistance will only affect the damge rate of the poison, not the duration. There is an unlisted resistance for the poison duration. This resistance starts at 0% for all characters and is affected by the difficulty peanalty (-40% in NM and -100% in hell). This would mean that the same poison source would end up lasting for longer durations in nightmare or hell if used on a player.

[Speederländer]

From a post by Ruvanal at the LL.

So are we saying that a venom damage listed of, say, 400 damage for .4 seconds is actually 800 damage for .8 seconds in hell on players, all other things being equal?

If this is true, and D1ce's info about poison ED sources being counted twice is true, then venom has massive hidden damage going on.

[ReallFugitive]

So are we saying that a venom damage listed of, say, 400 damage for .4 seconds is actually 800 damage for .8 seconds in hell on players, all other things being equal?

If this is true, and D1ce's info about poison ED sources being counted twice is true, then venom has massive hidden damage going on.

Go try it in normal with 30% resists and hell with 30% and see the differences.

[Phresh]

That is so false it sickens me. If Venom is "quite useless" why do 99% of wwsins max it and we'll say 70% of them use bramble? Venom is very nice and very useful. But seriously Duress for armor.... (CoH vs elements if you need some resist)

because they have nothing else to max fool... learn something about the game then speak

[ilkori]

because they have nothing else to max fool... learn something about the game then speakThat seems to apply to everyone...

WW has lots of damage sources. Physical and venom have about the same damage/hit - open wounds has about the same damage when you consider the 10 second duration. Magic is about 1/4ish of the physical per hit.

[-[$]tea|th-]

Agreed... 90% of WWsins max venom because they dont have anything else to max. I suppose you could split the extra points into DFlight (ionno, dmg ar?), MB (duration), maybe even Blade Shield (1 point...), couple extra in WB? I honestly dont know... and that is why I maxed venom on all my PvPsins (except my trapper of course).

Some other pre-buff/equipment options. AR is a pretty big problem yes? Demon Limb has charges of Enchant that gives a grip of +AR try that as a prebuff. I reccomend Duress as well. It is cheap and offers awesome Magic Effects.

Another possibility is Maxing Fade and using Enigma... I max BoS so I can get in range w/ DFlight and that works well. But my res suffers a lil.

[ilkori]

I only see two ways of building a good WW sin: Focus on Poison/Physical damage, or focus on immobilizing your opponent first.

For the venom assassin, you can find info in xu-godx's WW PvP guide (http://www.battle.net/forums/thread.aspx?fn=d2-skills&t=82031&p=1) on post #4 (it has bad formatting, style, and grammar/spelling, but good info). In summary, max CM/Fade/Venom, add lots of points into WB, DF and rely on your raw damage to win.

For a Stunning sin, max CM/Fade/Venom/MB/SM, and add 1 pt in WoF. Equip enigma to teleport around, and your shadow will stun the opponent. Then tele in and WW away. This build does less damage, but gets hit less also. Cast rate is far more important to this build.

Props to other people for both of these builds - I didn't do the work designing them, but from the math I know both should work well in theory.

[LLD-Vampire]

because they have nothing else to max fool... learn something about the game then speak
Ouch this coming from a person who thinks that FB as a secondary form of damage for a light trapper can get to 9.5k damage but forgot to tell us how.

No one gets PD resist in pubbys.... and if it's not pubbys then antidotes are BM. I'de hardly concider venom useless. I'de still concider bramble WAY better than enigma for a wwsin. *cough* DURESS *cough*

[D1ce]

Phresh, I don't think you've ever played WW Sins, so I wouldn't go on saying that stuff without solid experience to back it up.

[Phresh]

No you are correct i dont play ww sins, but ive dueled them and have friends with very good ones... they say it doesnt do much dmg, and when i duel them it it doesnt do **** to me

[Phresh]

Ouch this coming from a person who thinks that FB as a secondary form of damage for a light trapper can get to 9.5k damage but forgot to tell us how.

No one gets PD resist in pubbys.... and if it's not pubbys then antidotes are BM. I'de hardly concider venom useless. I'de still concider bramble WAY better than enigma for a wwsin. *cough* DURESS *cough*

lol max FB damage is 10731 sigh... i didnt forget to tell you, i didnt tell you, theres a difference.

(oh wait i had to add this)
this coming from someone who tells everyone to use duress...gg

[ilkori]

Phresh, it sounds like you haven't dueled any good poison WW sins... how do you know the venom didn't do much damage?i didnt forget to tell you, i didnt tell you, theres a difference.Yes, there is, and one makes you look like a jerk - especially bragging about it.

For the heck of it, some numbers from the Skill Planner (http://www.d2items.com/skills.php). I actually got 14256 as the max possible damage.Level FB Fire+% New Max
55 10560 35 14256The FB is with 20 base points, and 90 points added to synergies. The first damage column is without any +% skill damage added, the last one is with the max possible using the equipment to get the +35 skills. More for boredom, here's the equipment setup I used.Location Item Skills Skill +%
Base Hard 20 0
Claw +3 T/FB 6 10
Claw +3 T/FB 6 10
Helm +3 T 3 10
Armor +2 uniq 2 5
Gloves Mage 1 0
Belt Arach 1 0
Boots - 0 0
Ammy +3 T 3 0
Rings SoJs 2 0
Charms Anni 1 0
Charms Trap 10 0
Totals: 55 35

[LLD-Vampire]

lol max FB damage is 10731 sigh... i didnt forget to tell you, i didnt tell you, theres a difference.

(oh wait i had to add this)
this coming from someone who tells everyone to use duress...gg
Sorry I was under the impression that when you ment 9.5k you wouldnt be a cripple as far as block/ DR /resist and have to be 99? So the damage is possible? Who cares your char would blow still. Also Duress on a ww sin is good... I'm not telling everyone to use duress.

[Phresh]

Oh geeze stop posting because i have to prove you wrong everytime it gets boring.

Ilkori:

Yes, dueling with a bunch of mediocre wwsins must have threw me off im so sorry.

It doesnt make me look like a jerk nor am i bragging about anything, im simply stating that FB can do substantial dmg, am i forced to tell what i use wtf?

First of all the FB dmg that I stated was as a secondary skill to a LS trapper build with "good" items. You just threw on +traps gear of course its going to be higher. (and i dont think you can get 3 traps with 3 fb claws because of the slvl difference)

LLD-Vampire(once again): I thought the dmg was "impossible!"? lol. I still have 75 res/18dr/4.3k life/14k LS... sounds pretty crippled to me. Gimme your account so i can whoop your @ss in a wheelchair.

[LLD-Vampire]

Oh geeze stop posting because i have to prove you wrong everytime it gets boring.

Ilkori:

Yes, dueling with a bunch of mediocre wwsins must have threw me off im so sorry.

It doesnt make me look like a jerk nor am i bragging about anything, im simply stating that FB can do substantial dmg, am i forced to tell what i use wtf?

First of all the FB dmg that I stated was as a secondary skill to a LS trapper build with "good" items. You just threw on +traps gear of course its going to be higher. (and i dont think you can get 3 traps with 3 fb claws because of the slvl difference)

LLD-Vampire(once again): I thought the dmg was "impossible!"? lol. I still have 75 res/18dr/4.3k life/14k LS... sounds pretty crippled to me. Gimme your account so i can whoop your @ss in a wheelchair.

Sorry I'm on west and I'de pound you(I'de absorb both the fire and light JUST to watch you *****). Not to mention i'm guessing this char is on non ladder.

Yes 18DR is cripple and you never said your block.

[ilkori]

Yes, dueling with a bunch of mediocre wwsins must have threw me off im so sorry.I'm not sure if this is sarcastic or not, so I'll try to clear up what I said about it the first time. I was really wondering how you could tell the venom wasn't doing any damage. Unless they are using Trang's Gloves, Bramble, and possibly some buffing gear - you probably won't notice it much. That was why I put the emphasis on poison. The other reason I said it that way was this: How could you tell what the various sources of damage actually were? I mean, you get hit once, and by the time you get hit again the venom will most likely have finished giving its damage.

[LLD-Vampire]

I'm not sure if this is sarcastic or not, so I'll try to clear up what I said about it the first time. I was really wondering how you could tell the venom wasn't doing any damage. Unless they are using Trang's Gloves, Bramble, and possibly some buffing gear - you probably won't notice it much. That was why I put the emphasis on poison. The other reason I said it that way was this: How could you tell what the various sources of damage actually were? I mean, you get hit once, and by the time you get hit again the venom will most likely have finished giving its damage.
Ikori it's because he is far superior to us all! He admits to never having made a ww sin and yet continues to tell us what is best for one. I wish he was on west ladder. We have a perty cool ww sin using bramble running around Miao_????? something like that.

[Naliworld]

Phresh: Tone down the rhetoric a little, it'll go a long way to keeping things civil in this thread. Debate is fine, but I don't want things getting more heated.

[-[$]tea|th-]

What the hell has happend to this thread? We were discussing bramble verse enigma... which is essentially discussing venom as a good skill for a WWsin. So to try and get us all back on track I am going to throw my next build out there just to see what you guys think.

Actually I'll just start a new thread for it.

[Phresh]

Sorry I'm on west and I'de pound you(I'de absorb both the fire and light JUST to watch you *****). Not to mention i'm guessing this char is on non ladder.

Yes 18DR is cripple and you never said your block.

Oh so you would like me to wear shaftstop? or SS maybe? this is v1.10, stop living in the past.

Weapon Block? its an Assassin skill have you heard of it?

I particulary liked this line "I'de absorb both the fire and light" lol, hes like one of those pallys in pubby duels that you see with dual wisp tgods kiaras rising sun and hotspurs...always makes me laugh, see then i'd just bring in a necro kill you in 1 bone spear... sigh i need a challenge


I'm not sure if this is sarcastic or not, so I'll try to clear up what I said about it the first time. I was really wondering how you could tell the venom wasn't doing any damage. Unless they are using Trang's Gloves, Bramble, and possibly some buffing gear - you probably won't notice it much. That was why I put the emphasis on poison. The other reason I said it that way was this: How could you tell what the various sources of damage actually were? I mean, you get hit once, and by the time you get hit again the venom will most likely have finished giving its damage.

Because i've done tests on open with weapons that dont yield dmg to test actual venom damage and with 75 resists it wasn't substantial. That's all im saying.

Naliworld: Sorry about this, i just had to set someone straight.

[LLD-Vampire]

Oh so you would like me to wear shaftstop? or SS maybe? this is v1.10, stop living in the past.

Weapon Block? its an Assassin skill have you heard of it?

I particulary liked this line "I'de absorb both the fire and light" lol, hes like one of those pallys in pubby duels that you see with dual wisp tgods kiaras rising sun and hotspurs...always makes me laugh, see then i'd just bring in a necro kill you in 1 bone spear... sigh i need a challenge



Because i've done tests on open with weapons that dont yield dmg to test actual venom damage and with 75 resists it wasn't substantial. That's all im saying.

Naliworld: Sorry about this, i just had to set someone straight.
Set me straight? You completly exaggerate. I never said you had no block I said you didn't post what your block was at. DR is still important in 1.10. I could beat you with just GA and salv I said I would absorb just to watch you complain as you undoubtably would. Your nec would get killed too, I've been dueling necs since I started and most I can just charge lock and win then theres a few I have to switch to smite.

[Neuroff]

Set me straight? You completly exaggerate. I never said you had no block I said you didn't post what your block was at. DR is still important in 1.10. I could beat you with just GA and salv I said I would absorb just to watch you complain as you undoubtably would. Your nec would get killed too, I've been dueling necs since I started and most I can just charge lock and win then theres a few I have to switch to smite.

You gotta be kidding, you'll never beat a good nec with a smiter.

[LLD-Vampire]

You gotta be kidding, you'll never beat a good nec with a smiter.
It's ladder were not all GG PWNT THX KK GG MY ENIGMA + HOTO PWN J00! Most of the necs I face on ladder (even in pubbys) are good mannered enough to not use bone prison. Run in charge if you can kill them right there switch to smite and kill before the bs's hit you if you can't charge out. If open wounds hit him FoH once and he is dead.

[Neuroff]

It's ladder were not all GG PWNT THX KK GG MY ENIGMA + HOTO PWN J00! Most of the necs I face on ladder (even in pubbys) are good mannered enough to not use bone prison. Run in charge if you can kill them right there switch to smite and kill before the bs's hit you if you can't charge out. If open wounds hit him FoH once and he is dead.

key word = GOOD

[LLD-Vampire]

key word = GOOD
GOOD= KK GG THX MY ENIGMA+ HOTO PWN J00!
No necs on ladder are good? I duels lots of necs. Describe good? Since most of the ladder necs dont have 10 gcs or large ammounts of + skills (hoto enigma maras blah whatever) I can take a few bone spirits or spears when I charge in. If you've got a uswest ladder nec I'll duel it.

[Neuroff]

GOOD= KK GG THX MY ENIGMA+ HOTO PWN J00!
No necs on ladder are good? I duels lots of necs. Describe good? Since most of the ladder necs dont have 10 gcs or large ammounts of + skills (hoto enigma maras blah whatever) I can take a few bone spirits or spears when I charge in. If you've got a uswest ladder nec I'll duel it.
LOL, good job you can kill a running nec.

[Phresh]

Set me straight? You completly exaggerate. I never said you had no block I said you didn't post what your block was at. DR is still important in 1.10. I could beat you with just GA and salv I said I would absorb just to watch you complain as you undoubtably would. Your nec would get killed too, I've been dueling necs since I started and most I can just charge lock and win then theres a few I have to switch to smite.

Where do you duel in pubbys? I'm talking about the good people on the realms. Ever heard of pvp-east or any other dueling clan? You should maybe try dueling people there since your 1 pally owns every character class. Shut up now im tired and dont wan't to post anymore non-sense. Thank you for your time.

[LLD-Vampire]

No one is forcing you to post.

I for the 9347103957693857302934858th time I am on USWest LADDER (thats the one that they reset a few weeks ago ya know where everyone doesn't have enigma hoto 10 gcs with 40 life perf anni 9 20life 5res all scs)

If I put on enigma I could kill a telenec too probably an easier duel than neither with tele just FoH his *** to death.

[Neuroff]

Yes, then he would use your "strategies" and put on a 4 PTopaz Shield and TGods. GG.

[Naliworld]

Since the thread has already gone so off-topic, I'm closing this.