Need help with LLD.

[BadLikeMe]

Im making an LLD BM charger, you know, for taking out those nasty 50+ casters. He's gonna be lvl 39 and i'll list what i have planned for him:

20 conc (2 pre-reqs)
13 charge (1 pre-eq)
6 holy shield (pre-reqs already counted)

so that comes to 42 skill points, lvl 39 + quests.

Equipment, this is where the trouble's at:
He's using these for sure:

Eth Hone Sundan
Butcher's Pupil//Gilded shield on switch
Rockstopper (preferably 40+ resists, i still need this if anybody wants to help)
String of Ears
up'd Bloodfists
Angelic ring + ammy
Bahamut's ring (+108 mana)
WaterWalks OR up'd Goblin Toe (for the 25% cb)

I'm also having trouble picking an armour, shaft? 4X pruby armor? 60 max armor? Please give some advice people!

Another big problem is that I noticed that i'm missing the precious cannot be frozen mod, if anybody could suggest an alternate means of getting it that would be real nice.

Thanks, any advice is appreciated.:howdy:

[Tridge]

if this is for pking casters, i'd forego the DR and block altogether. really i'd much rather have res/life than dr/blocking for this O_o

use like guillames (15/15), artisan/squid res/max plate (scint. of carnage 45/45/6x-7x lol), up bfist, definately waters (65 life pls), eth hone (45/45 again) or eth butchers//65/120/60/60 ed/ar/max/res gilded (remember we're using 15/15 jewels for my example),deaths guard (don't need dr from string), angel/bahamut combo sounds good
for skills... why arent you synergizing charge?
20 might 1 smite 20 charge/1 leftover sounds better to me (correct me if i'm wrong o_oa )
just my opinion tho, you do what you like ^^;

[-Epic]

do what tridge sayd =D.

if youre only killin casters, stack resist+ignore dr/def.

gogo BM slayer!

im thinking of exploiting storm circlet on useast and make a lvl 34 or so LLD sorc =D. fun fun fun

[BadLikeMe]

Yea sorry, i forgot to mention that i have the shield on switch so i can use holy shield and then just smite any melee's i encounter, i guess i thought you guys would take other melee's into account.

Yeah, but as you can tell by holy shield + conc, this build is meant to use smite against melee's, that's why i used max conc instead of might, a 300+ dmg eth hone sundan will pack a punch vs. casters almost no matter what ed charge is, at lvl 13 charge has 325d itself, this is more than might would syngergise it, so instead of maxing might + conc to use lvl 1 charge and vll 1 smite, i went with my setup (btw, maxed might gives 260ed when used compared to maxed conc at 360ed).

As for guil's, i avoided using that because of the 115 str req, eth hone sundan needs 91 str and shaft needs 92, so im planning to stay around there, the rest of my inv will probably be filled with dex charms for blocking.

[Tridge]

if you were going to smite, then might i suggest a black flail and a hawk branded bs of deflect

:edit: and a -15% reqs guilly would drop it to mid 90s i belive ^^;

[BadLikeMe]

What do you mean a black flail?

A gilded shield has more def and smite dmg than a bone shield or grim shield, and it can have up to 4 sockets fairly easily

A -15% req guil's would take it to 98 str req, i could throw on a few charms to get that.

BTW, i couldn't afford 15/15's if i tried, my friend suggested using spirit forge linked mail, it has a life mod, some dmg mod, comes with 2 o/s and iirc has a life per lvl mod. i was thinking of using this armor with some max jewels or prubys for more life.

[Phyrexial]

If you intend to smite, consider Twitch or Rattlecage. You are going to need alot more IAS on gear to smite effectively since you are not using Fanata. Also, you really really should use maxed Might to gain the synergies with Charge. It will still give a hefty boost of damage to Smite, trust me, as well as give you a truly nasty charge.

Black is a runeword. Thul-Io-Nef, it has some small mods here and there but the main draw is 40% crushing blow.

[BadLikeMe]

Doesn't smite work solely on the weapon speed? and i just checked, a shael'd butcher's pupil is faster than a black knout or flail, it has 5% less crushing blow but it has 25% chance of open wounds and twice the damage, making it more versatile vs. most builds because even if i don't switch out the eth hone sundan i can still have a pretty nasty charge. (if smite is in fact affected by ias other than that on the weapon then i'll gladly throw on death's gloves too if i means another bp for smite).

I've considered twich as an armour for the extra blocking and bonuses to str and dex, im still tempted by the spirit forge's life mod and 2 o/s or simply a 4 pruby armor though. i'll probably get up'd twitch, possibly with a pruby.

I see im going to have to rethink the skill points, so here's where i stand right now:

13 charge
1 smite
1 holy shield (2 pre-reqs)
7 conc (2 pre-reqs)
and one unused skill point at level 24.

For stats, i dunno, i think im doing fine, you tell me:

51 str
20 dex (base)
55 vita
15 energy (base)
and 64 unused stats points at level 24.

[Phyrexial]

Smite's attack speed is affected by IAS from gear outside the weapon.

[BadLikeMe]

Ok... now will adding death's help me hit another bp?

Pupil's speed is 10, + 50 ias from weapon and shael, 20 ias from twitch another possible 30 from death's.

I did some math and i found that i can get a better charge with less skill points through might, with the skill points i save from might, i can stick a few more into holy shield and get a better smite aswell.

crap. that means im gonna have to rm. again. anybody know when the next westie chant run is gonna be?

Anybody wanna help me think of some new names?

[Matt]

Might I suggest an eth headstriker with a rhyme shield as your primary weapon.

I would go eth headstriker, which will take care of deadly strike, I dont like Crushing blow on chargers, its better suited for fast, lower damage attacks.
Rhyme= CBF and resists

I would say use an Artisans __of the whale armor, socketed with +15 max jewels, or, if you feel like it, have an extra one loaded with thul runes to help with cold sorcs. That gives another big life boost and a lot of added damage or resist.

Helm: Guilliames is nice, but headstriker should cover DS needs, I would say use a rockstopper with a max jewel.

Belt: Rare with FHR, life, resist, stats on it (dont need DR from string, CBF from rhyme)

Gloves: Bloodfists

Boots: IK would be nice, hefty str req though, waterwalks are best here.

Rings: Both angelic, you want a LOT of AR facing characters consistently ~20 levels higher than you.

Ammy: Angelic, obviously

Charms: Loaded with small vitas.

Thats my suggestion, Eth headstriker pallys with a lot of +max gear WRECK most anything their level, they can do about 12k damage when build very well (12k listed Pvm), though that may be with hypothetically perfect gear and an invintory of damage charms, but either way, they pack a HUGE punch, and using a 1h weapon that covers ALL your deadly strike needs cant hurt. Resists in normal should be near maxed with a good rhyme shield (2 socket pally shield with 40% resist is already 65% resist all)

If need be, substitute resist all jewels/charms for dmg jewels and life charms, but you should only really need that in maybe nm or hell.

-Matt

[UndeadBehlial]

you can have more than 42 skill points... you wanna end up as lvl 39 right? So you have all 38 plus a lvl from ancients makes that 39. Extra skill points could be normal Den, normal Radament, normal Izual, NM den, NM radament, NM izual. you have the possibility of being a lvl 39 with 8 more skill points: 47 pts in total. Heres a tip though, you may know it. Dont do any of those quests until you reach lvl 30, or until you reach the level where you want that skill point in. Thats confusing lol. Ok when i'm lvl 3 and i do Den of Evil, I HAVE to put that pt in a lvl 1 skill. You cannot save them till lvl 30. It all depends on when you complete quest, so I always wait till i'm lvl 30 before doing skill quests, because then I have access to all skills.

[BadLikeMe]

Yeah, i know, i thought about doing that, and perhaps even glitch rushing to hell, but i don't understand why wait to do the quests? i just always run around with that little button on the side of my screen.

Either way it doesn't bug me because might is a clvl 1 skill and my highest skill (holy shield) is clvl 24 so i don't have a whole lot of waiting to do.

But thanks for the advice anyway!

[xxsteelxx]

they can do about 12k damage when build very well (12k listed Pvm),


-Matt

u sure u dont mean 6k listed as max for 39 with 58% chance of 12k from ds?

[Phyrexial]

Without Fanata, it will be hard to be a balanced charger and smiter. Charge demands high AR to make every hit count (as getting blocked can get you killed in a hurry) and no IAS whereas smite requires no AR at all but is dependant on IAS to be effective. I suppose my question to you is will you be charging entirely and just smiting melee, or you do you intend to charge then finish with smite? Depending on your emphasis we'll be able to better balance your gear for smiting and charging.

[BadLikeMe]

For sorcs and teleing casters (necros included even though they can't tele till clvl 65) im going to be switching for eth hone sundan, for melee's im switching to that pupil/gilded and charging untill it doesn't knock him back anymore then switching to entirely smite, unless run runs, then i just hit that charge hotkey again and catch him.

Here's an update on my charger:

Level 19
skills:
15 might
1 smite
1 charge
2 pre-reqs for holy shield
totals 19

stats:
45 str
20 dex (base)
45 vita
15 eng (base)
With 50 stats left over.

[Tridge]

bs: barbed shield 18-35 smite damage... best you're gonna get unless you go 41 for royal.

butcher's pupil does NOT have crushing blow. it DOES have 35% ds and 25% ow. if you're going to smite, you want to hit FAST and stack some cb. ow will be too slow and ds does not work with smite. seeing as how you're not putting into holy shield, you're going to want a LOT of +skill and a LOT of cb to make up the damage. *bonus* flail is range 3
i see what you're trying to do there, but honestly the smite will be very weak, and you'll most likely end up shift-charging back and forth on the opponent :(
msg me when you're done building this if you play east nl.... *scotimus

[aznbboi16]

Saw people mentioning artisans ___ of the whale. And I happen to have an Artisans Mage Plate of the Whale.
3 sockets, 237 def I think, 73 life. Level 37 req.

If you need one I could trade it to you for the right price. I knew it would be nice for a llder when I saw it so I bought it off Hell Anya.

This is on USWest NL btw.

[mhl12]

you might want to add some pts into vigor so ur charge will be faster. Just a suggestion. :thumbsup:

[Matt]

Yeah, thats right steel. I always include DS in damage, its like when you ask someones damage, generally, you get the max dmg, not the min, I just happen to included DS in the max dmg, I give a "highest possible" figure, the way i see it, if I have 457 life, and someones "average" damage is 456, well, thats a neat little fact to know, but its not useful to me, I want to know the maximum damage I might be taking/dealing, because if I duel someone whose average is 456, and I have 457 life, 50.001% of the time, im in good shape (as in, no 1hit kos) but the rest of the time, I'm done if he hits me with a good one, so I like to know the top possible damage.

[BadLikeMe]

Originally posted by Tridge
seeing as how you're not putting into holy shield, you're going to want a LOT of +skill and a LOT of cb to make up the damage. Where the hell did i say i wasn't putting any points into holy shield?

Here's my planned skill placement right now:

20 might
13 charge (1 pre-req)
6 holy shield (2 pre-reqs, i originally planned for 4, but switching from conc to might gave me 2 extra skill points)

bs: barbed shield 18-35 smite damage... best you're gonna get unless you go 41 for royal.
Thanks, i overlooked that, now im gonna go with either a plain barbed shield for the sockets or a lance guard for the ds with 1 handed charge, the life, and the fhr will help tons vs. melee's.

How does vigor make charge faster? Maybe i'll get this "synergy" if i do rush to hell or nm.


What's that armour gonna cost me aznbboi?

BTW Tridge, this is uswest, nl.


Mule, if you read this, i know you always give good statistical info, could you help me by telling me how ds and cb differ and work for smite and charge? some smite bps would help tons too, if you can get me this stuff, thanks alot!:thumbsup:

[TheCerberus]

In the Paladin FAQ it says only Vigor increases Charge speed. On other opponents screens it tends to make you look invisible. DS doubles damage, CB takes 1/10 of their current life, DS does not work with Smite I think though correct me if I'm wrong, CB works very well with smite however. Everything works with Charge.

Smite table: http://www.diabloii.net/characters/paladin/ias-smite.shtml

[aznbboi16]

What's that armour gonna cost me aznbboi?

Not too sure. I see the 4 socket versions of these (jewelers ___ of whale) go for lots. But since Jeweler's prefix has a lv55 (according to Arreat's Summit) llders can't use them.
I'd assume this would be priced similarly to slightly less to a person who LLDs. It's even a mage plate (light, exceptional = decent defense, low str), so you don't get much better than this for lv37 req. This is kinda a specific needs kinda thing, so I'm sure some people will value it as crap, while some (lv40 llders) will pay well for it.

I may post a thread in the Trade forums. I don't see you there too often however. We can work something out through PMs or something. If I do ever put it in a tradelist I will PM you first as well to let you know.

[BadLikeMe]

k thanks for the info people, is an 8 frame smite any good? I calculated that with might and holy shield, im going to be doing 183 max dmg with smite.

Weapon range doesn't affect smite does it??

[Jerkazoid]

k thanks for the info people, is an 8 frame smite any good? I calculated that with might and holy shield, im going to be doing 183 max dmg with smite.

Weapon range doesn't affect smite does it??

i would use smite for crushing, fast. the smite dmg can be negated with sols, 8 frames is decent

[Lyrs]

"lance guard" barbed shield (lvl 35) has an inherent 20% (perhaps 25%) deadly strike along with a fairly high smite dmg output.

It'll fill in any spots you still need for DS.

[BadLikeMe]

I don't understand Jerkazoid... How can smite be negated by sols?

I already know about lance guard Lyrs, i mentioned it a few posts ago, but thanks for trying to help anyway!

BTW, gg Jerkazoid, remember "NerdBuster"? :lol:

[Phyrexial]

Sol runes grant 7 physical damage reduction each. This is applied after the PvP penalty. With a 4 Sol Armor and a 3 Sol shield, that's 49 DR. 49 x 6 = 294 damage reduced. If you're smiter does lets say... 250-350, then after the sol runes get through your damage is now 0-56. And if they want to take it further, they can still use a Sol helm.

This is particularly damaging against a smiter because their damage is low enough to be negated. Zealots can get damage around the 3k mark so its not so bad for them.

[Jerkazoid]

my 29 kicker has gear on switch for 10 sol runes along with blade bladebuckle thats about 450 listed dmg gone.

most people DONT use sols, so u probably dont really have to worry. but
if ur gonna go with smite utilize crushing + openwounds for their great effectivness,.. SMite to crush.. then switch to a finishing backup

something like that



hey hey nerdbuster so thats you :wave:

[BadLikeMe]

Now what you mean smite to crush? lol, i was thinking with crushing blow to get 1/10 their life per hit but now you just mentioned some finishing move, what you talking about? Now im gonna take your advice because that smiter of yours kicked my ***.



Yea, im NerdBuster, BadIdea, formerly AzureArrow and i'll also be known as Bad_Tyrant once this thread fulfills it's purpose ;)

[BadLikeMe]

Anyway... so this is what the build should look like when done now:

skills:
20 Might (no pre-reqs)
13 Charge (1 pre-req)
6 Holy Shield (2 other pre-reqs)
This adds up to 42, if i do nm, and hell i'll get charge up to 15-17 and then get dump points into Holy Shield

stats:
91 str (hopefully only base 50)
85 dex (after some charms, base about 65)
rest to vita
None to energy

Equip:
Ethereal Hone Sundan
Shael'd Butcher's Pupil/Lance Guard
Rock Stopper
Up'd Twitchthrow (or 4X pruby armor)
Up'd Goblin Toe (or Water Walks)
Death's gloves and belt
Angelic ammy
Angelic ring/Bahamut's ring