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View Full Version : TESTING: Results of zeal and range


Garbad_the_Weak
24-07-2004, 21:49
Hey all,

As most of you know, some people have observed that range seems to affect the number of hits zeal gets. Blert and I set out to test that today.

The test subjects were a level 88 paladin and a level 82 barb (slight level difference affecting % to hit). We balanced our Ar and defense to be as close as possible. Both of us had 15k. I had no -% defense items, etc. I walked right up to him and zealed.

First, we tested without a shield to see raw hits. I zealed in sets of 10 zeals, and ran it for a total of 150 zeals. Based on ar/defense alone, you would expect about 80 hits.

Range 1:
79 total hits

Range 3:
86 total hits

No real difference, not enough to conclude anything.

Next test, was with a shield. I zealed him 400 times (80 zeals, 5 potential hits per zeal). Based on ar/defense alone, we would predict about 50 hits.

Range 1:
44 total hits

Range 3:
38 total hits

Slight difference here. However, the raw data might be a bit off. The first 75 zeals with range 3 got a total of 1 hit, which was probably just freak chance. After that, the totals were almost equal. Again, I don't see enough difference to conclude a difference yet.

Next, we tested the number of hits against a whirling target. Blert whirled through me and I counted zeals. This is far less scientific, as its harder to get a controled number of hits. However, the results are pretty clear.

Blert whirled through me 40 times and I shift zealed him each time.

Range 3:
30 total hits

Range 1:
12 total hits

From this, it seems clear range certianly affects hitting a moving target or one outside range 1.

CONCLUSION

I see no reason to believe range 1 weapons hit more at close range than other weapons. I do see reason to believe they hit less at range or against a moving target (no shock there). I therefore conclude that range does NOT affect zeal % to hit.

Garbad

SlashChrono
24-07-2004, 21:58
Wow nice work Garbad. You and your friend definitely put in a lot of time to test it out. Props to you guys :clap:

delixer
24-07-2004, 23:06
Very nice work. Does this also apply to PvM since I don't PvP?

Stoutwood
25-07-2004, 00:44
Works for me. I'll edit it out of my guide. Good work Garbad.

Killfrenzy
25-07-2004, 04:44
Ahhh my doubt in my zerker axe was groundless!

its is my precious once more

van_ham
25-07-2004, 05:13
Hahahah i guess thats good news to me cos im making a 2h zealot.

lol.

xpumafangx
25-07-2004, 08:43
Thanks Gar I am glad that some one did this. I have to say I wish there was a pos. to using a low ranged weapon owell.

Garbad_the_Weak
25-07-2004, 17:30
Well, its still not a complete wash for zeal duels. Comparing my build with ebotdz and razor, the dmg is almost identical and razor gives 50% ow. One could argue the 50% ow is better than the range 3.

Garbad

Garbad_the_Weak
25-07-2004, 22:44
Ok, unstickying this.

Garbad

mepersoner
25-07-2004, 23:58
Why'd you even bother testing this? I told you flat out that they were wrong. Just like the theory that blunt weapons lock better was wrong.

It's good to be right I guess.

Garbad_the_Weak
26-07-2004, 00:01
I thought it was wrong too, but some experienced zealots said so, so it was worth a test. Its settled anyhow.

Garbad

ArcaneLegend
26-07-2004, 00:05
dang...looks like ill have to buy myself an ebotd zerker now. excellent work Garbad.

edit: just for the hell of it ill run a few tests myself when i have time :D.

Stoutwood
26-07-2004, 00:11
Well there did seem to be some correlation, but from what these tests show, range doesn't matter at all with zeal vs. zeal. I suppose the rolls were just happening to go in those people's favor. You still won't see me trading in my War Spike though.

chinokix06
26-07-2004, 02:03
so for a ds pally eth death cleaver would be a better choice over eth razorsedge besides the fact that cleaver has more ds?

Stoutwood
26-07-2004, 05:43
so for a ds pally eth death cleaver would be a better choice over eth razorsedge besides the fact that cleaver has more ds?

I wouldn't say THAT. It still doesn't have OW.

Garbad_the_Weak
26-07-2004, 06:26
Well, it also maxes out DS and has range 3 and slightly better damage. Botd is still clearly a better barb weapon, but eth perfect cleaver is the top zeal weapon I believe.

Garbad

xpumafangx
26-07-2004, 13:40
I think perfect ebotd ba and perf zoded ethy dc are equels. But I really have no clue since I do not own eather one for a barb that is.

Garbad_the_Weak
26-07-2004, 16:27
I have done the math, assuming the most common and best gear setups, a 415 ebotdz is clearly better than a 270 eth cleaver.

Garbad

UndeadBehlial
26-07-2004, 17:22
ok so now i'm kind of confused haha. I was about to trade my BOTD zerker (non eth) with 15%ll and 397%ED for a eth War Spike with 15%ll and 377%ED for my pally. This leads to 3 questions:
1) Does this mean that there really isnt a difference? Should I do the trade?
and
2) arreat summit says that BOTD ED varies from 350-400%, so how are you talking about 415 ebotdz?
and finally
3) Should I just get a death cleaver?

Tanatus
26-07-2004, 18:21
ppl talking here about sup eth zerker and best sup eth zerker have +15ED built in thus with perfect roll on BOTD you will end up with 415% ED

UndeadBehlial
26-07-2004, 18:26
gotcha, thanks a lot. so #2 is done, what about the other 2 q's i have?

Tanatus
26-07-2004, 18:33
I am not the best expert in zeal but as far as I understand you are aiming for a few things
a) max listed damage per zeal
b) 4FPS zeal
c) range 3 for zealing moving targets
War spike have -10 to base weapon spead 2 weapon range and much lower average damage compare to zerker
Zerker have 0 to base weapon speed 3 weapon range and one of highest average damage in game
So if you capable of braking 4/5 FPS for zeal w/o much sacrofice in gear I'd stay with zerker

UndeadBehlial
26-07-2004, 19:05
thanks, i was thinking about sticking anyway.

LovelyGods
26-07-2004, 23:26
so your saying that a E.Death Cleaver > E.Razor?

hmm... Whats Perfect Stats on Death, i might try one out see if i hit better or worse then E.Razor,

actually i might be able to hit 6k damage with it :thumbsup: .


O Jeeze, does it have 40 %ias? i hope so, cuz i think zerk axes have max fps at 60% right???

Slipin
27-07-2004, 01:48
Death Cleaver
Berserker Axe

One-Hand Damage: (79-91) To (234-269) (156.5-180 Avg)
Required Level: 70
Required Strength: 138
Required Dexterity: 59
Durability: 26
Weapon Speed: [0]
+230-280% Enhanced Damage (varies)
+40% Increased Attack Speed
-33% Target Defense
66% Deadly Strike
+6-9 Life After Each Kill (varies)

It's doing very nice damage when eth, 350+ max. But it lacks style and 50% OW.

mortic
30-07-2004, 23:22
These are solid tests zealot vs stationary target. What will happen if 2 zealots or 2 melees are swinging at each other? Which weapon will have priority if both are swinging at roughly the same time?

If I remember correctly in 1.09, the weapon with lower base speed has priority.

Garbad_the_Weak
31-07-2004, 00:52
These are solid tests zealot vs stationary target. What will happen if 2 zealots or 2 melees are swinging at each other? Which weapon will have priority if both are swinging at roughly the same time?

If I remember correctly in 1.09, the weapon with lower base speed has priority.
I don't have the expertise to answer that question. Anyone else know? I had always assumed it was simply a function of who hit first combined with fhr/uninterruptability (and some element of chance, as any wolf can tell you).

Garbad