Hardcore Assassin skills?

[thulsey]

Maybe this should be posted in the Hardcore forum, but it's about Assassin skills, so I figure who better to ask than the people here, right?

I've recently been playing a SC Phoenix Striker Assassin in the new ladder, and love it. Way fun. I've got the standard build of 20 PS, 20 CoT, 20 FoF, 1 DC, and pretty much 1 point in prereq's, and Blade Fury (with Malice for that final sliver on those pesky FE bosses, mostly...) I've even been lucky enough to get good gear and have discovered cube recipes again to upgrade rares and craft amulets -- soooo much more fun than my sorc on the last ladder. So much more fun that I've decided to create a HC version of the Phoenix Striker.

In my observations of this character, though, I've come up with several ways that she keeps dying in Softcore (aside from Vit being too low) and ways that I THINK I can avoid these deaths with skill points. I didn't focus on fade or weapon block in softcore, for instance.

First of all - here are the points I'm looking at spending on Hardcore character (remember, emphasis on survival, THEN damage):
10 CM
20 CoT
20 PS
20 FoF
5 WB
10 Fade
10 SM

With pre-requisites and 1 point skills (4 traps for Blade Fury) that's 109 points. IF I LIVE TO LEVEL 99, I'll be able to complete this character, on hardcore. RIIIIIIIIIIGHT...

Obviously there are changes that can be made to improve this setup and save some points.

Chief cause of death: Low blocking.
I prefer C/C to C/Shield , and with Fade - C/C I can block and have my resists in Hell. CoS rocks, anyway, and prevents a lot of ranged attacks, but if she's getting pounded, she ain't casting it until recovering. Ouch. Is it better to go with a shield/claw set up? or is 5 points in WB enough?


Second cause of death: no shield, so low resists
Is 10 Fade ENOUGH? (remember, I'm probably looking at no shield)

Third cause of death: low blocking, low resists, and dammit -- she ain't HITTING anything in the pack...
10 CM for added AR and damage. Is this a waste of points, or should this really be maxed?

I think, but would love to be corrected, that my SM could actually be left out of this build, or built up much later in the game.

Also, since this is HC, I will probably need to pump skills at a different rate than in Softcore (more defensive skills and not being so worried about maxing damage right away...) Any ideas on a possible progression here?

All suggestions and ideas are welcome - please fire away!

Thanks!

[thulsey]

and the crickets went chirp chirp chirp........

[Naliworld]

You could put CM at a lower priority(eg. 1 point till you reach level 90+), and aim for 5 Fade/5 SM. As long as you have enough prebuffs(for SM/Fade) -maybe around 10 (+6 from two +SD claws, and an extra 4 from misc. +skills)- and some +AR(the +AR on Bartucs or ITD on the Mark comes in handy. If not, consider Angelic's partial set bonus), 5 base for SM and Fade and 1 in CM will suffice.

You should note, however, you're going to be pretty slow with CoT/FoF if you aren't going to use BoS. It helps if you use naturally fast claws(eg. Bartucs/Natalya's Mark), but without BoS, it's neigh impossible reaching the 10 frame cap for CoT/FoF. That's one of the disadvantages of going with Fade...

[GenXCub]

You could go for a Claw/Shield build, and just use the Phoenix Strike skill and let FoF and CoT be the synergies. Since PS is a single claw attack, it shouldn't slow you too much.

[lextalionis]

I think also you should be more liberal in your use of CoS and MB. MB a couple times when you hit a group to convert. Those guys won't attack you and that can help a ton. CoS can keep ranged attackers from seeing you, so you'll get hit with less elemental damage.

Pay careful attention to your AR, especially of your release skill, since they universally tend to be the lower AR. CM is not the answer to your AR problems. The big answers are watching the level of creatures around you. Finding Equipment to help your base AR, such as Angelic/Ravenfrost. Enchant charges can be found on weapons, not just on Tyrant Limb. Releases are very important to get off, especially if you are using Cobra Strike to supplement your leeching. The best change might be to adjust your playstyle to play in areas that you can easily hit creatures with your release attack.

Don't be afraid to use the PS cold charge for crowd control. A trick that someone said is to use SW in places like entering Duriel since the SW will always cast MB if its on the right mouse click right before a fight.

[thulsey]

All great suggestions! I have basically figured I won't worry so much about AR coming from Claw Mastery and will pump Shadow Master, instead, and later on put some more points into Weapon Block to keep both claws with +skills.

BoS will probably be much more valuable than fade, at least early on, so I'm going to keep only one point in each of those.... I usually keep a shield and high damage claw on switch for Blade Fury, so resists should probably come from that, as well.

I use MB and CoS ALL the time, EVERY fight. That prevents the archers from attacking, and mostly allows me time to pick the weak ones out from the herd and charge up.

To be honest, I discovered that my deaths in SC have mostly resulted from Corpses exploding, and being over-my-head level-wise, so I'm definitely going to slow down there, and allow my merc/shadow to kill the FE/CE bosses (with a little help from my BF).

Thanks for the suggestions - I'll let you guys know how it's going (level 22/act 3 so far...)

[thulsey]

You could put CM at a lower priority(eg. 1 point till you reach level 90+), and aim for 5 Fade/5 SM. As long as you have enough prebuffs(for SM/Fade) -maybe around 10 (+6 from two +SD claws, and an extra 4 from misc. +skills)- and some +AR(the +AR on Bartucs or ITD on the Mark comes in handy. If not, consider Angelic's partial set bonus), 5 base for SM and Fade and 1 in CM will suffice.

ANgelic -- if I had two rings, would that give me partial set bonus, or do I have to wear another piece of set?
You should note, however, you're going to be pretty slow with CoT/FoF if you aren't going to use BoS. It helps if you use naturally fast claws(eg. Bartucs/Natalya's Mark), but without BoS, it's neigh impossible reaching the 10 frame cap for CoT/FoF. That's one of the disadvantages of going with Fade...

Finding that out --- actually, I just thought Fade would help with resists mostly, since I have a ton of charms and some gear, but can't seem to max any resists, even in NM. I figured HC would be even more dangerous. BoS is probably going to have to be the way to go, tho -- and dual claw, since I like to charge up as much as possible with one click...
I generally tend to use Greater Talons that I gamble (since I'm playing un-twinked and will probably have to trade at some point). Got lucky and came up with a Blade Talon with PMH and ITD on it, so upgraded that and have a nice, fat little swing time.

[inic]

if your melee and go c/c, its very wasteful not to use your left side charges (fof,cot,boi).
I'm an MA'r and I rarely use phoenix. the ability to get double charges on one swipe is too good to pass up. I'd suggest 2 into cm/fade/wb/dc.... I'd like to write more, but i'm starving here :)
If you're going east HCL, then whisper me *inic, I have the highest ranked MA asn (90, TargetX). I don't play her too much anymore now that she's 90. I've been playing my throwbarb/spearzon mostly. I'll hook you up with some good crafted gear though if your on same realm. I also have some great low lvl melee claws....
One thing to realize is that for a PS'r, physical damage doesnt mean a thing. I found PERFECT claws for a PS'r. ITD, 30 ias, PMH, AR, Light/fire damage.... but do 12-24 damage.... I NEVER worry about IM with those claws :)

[thulsey]

if your melee and go c/c, its very wasteful not to use your left side charges (fof,cot,boi).
I'm an MA'r and I rarely use phoenix. the ability to get double charges on one swipe is too good to pass up. I'd suggest 2 into cm/fade/wb/dc.... I'd like to write more, but i'm starving here :)
If you're going east HCL, then whisper me *inic, I have the highest ranked MA asn (90, TargetX). I don't play her too much anymore now that she's 90. I've been playing my throwbarb/spearzon mostly. I'll hook you up with some good crafted gear though if your on same realm. I also have some great low lvl melee claws....
One thing to realize is that for a PS'r, physical damage doesnt mean a thing. I found PERFECT claws for a PS'r. ITD, 30 ias, PMH, AR, Light/fire damage.... but do 12-24 damage.... I NEVER worry about IM with those claws :)

Too bad - I'm on HCL West --- would have been great to hook up on realms. Same feeling as finding great gear with my SC asn that will never see the HCL games.... sniff. Anyway, feel free to whisper *thulseyhc on west if you get a chance!

How do you leech with low dam claws like that? Those mods sound just like the ones I gambled in SC and am hoping to get again on HC.

I find that, when the monsters are tough enough, 5 hits provides me with 3 charges CoT, 3 charges FoF, and 2 Charges PS. 11+k damage at level 68. Not much stays on the screen for long there in NM. Yep - I'm a fan of the left hand side of the MA skill tree.

How did you deal with resists in Hell? I'm guessing armor and charms, instead of fade?

I'll look at 2 pts into the skills you mentioned. I'm going to max in this order:
CoT
PS
SM
FoF

Then probably sink the extra points into CM, DC, WB. Think that's too late?

Thanks for the time!

Sorry about the late response - I'm in Taipei right now, so timezones are, um.... different.

[Naliworld]

ANgelic -- if I had two rings, would that give me partial set bonus, or do I have to wear another piece of set?

Finding that out --- actually, I just thought Fade would help with resists mostly, since I have a ton of charms and some gear, but can't seem to max any resists, even in NM. I figured HC would be even more dangerous. BoS is probably going to have to be the way to go, tho -- and dual claw, since I like to charge up as much as possible with one click...
I generally tend to use Greater Talons that I gamble (since I'm playing un-twinked and will probably have to trade at some point). Got lucky and came up with a Blade Talon with PMH and ITD on it, so upgraded that and have a nice, fat little swing time.

If you wore two Angelic rings, yes, you'd get double the AR bonus. I don't think you need it, though.

The BoS suggestion is probably more relevant to SC'ers. If you think you need the resists/PDR more, definitely go with Fade. Slow speed you can live with, but I doubt the same is possible with resists.