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Pallidum
18-07-2004, 22:41
So this is my first attempt at writing a mini guide in a topic which I am somewhat knowledgable. I hope this may help some new people who wish to improve their necros in NvN, a duel imo that offers the most challenge and excitement. In this I will cover build and equipment issues. One final thing before I begin, this guide only covers bonemancers v bonemancers. I feel revives in dueling is bm personally, and I rarely come across poisonmancers in east nl. Finally I will not talk about strategies unless I am asked to in feedback. The strategy section in Soulesschild's guide covers that very well, and should be more than enough for the curious.

Stat Distribution

Obviously, an all vita necro will have a distinct advantage here vs a block necro. In 1.10 dueling, an all vita necro is superior because generally speaking ,there are so many more casters around than melee and zons. In addition, there is protection from bone armor, and vitamancers can also wear 50%, which is max, damage reduce.

For a NvN necro, his stats should be like this.

Str: Base or as low as possible for endgame gear.

Dex: Since we're not going to rely on block, no point or as low as possible for endgame gear.

Vit: Every last point goes here

Energy: None.

Equipment

I will try to cover both the rich and poors equipent choices here.


Setup # 1

Helm: Rare +2 Nec with life, mana and resists (shaeled)or a +3 Poison n Bone Circlet with 20 % fast cast with 2 os (double shaeled). These things are simply Godly.

Ammy: +2 nec with life, mana, str, resists and 20% cast.

Weapon: Hoto or Wiz

Armor: Enigma breastplate

Shield: Jahed +3 PnB darkforce

Gloves: Bloodfists

Belt: Arachnid

Rings: 2 soj or soj+ bulkathos

Boots: Marrowwalks ( If you have a disdain for marrows, you can wear waterwalks, sandstorm treks, or rare boots with fhr and life...there is a wide variety of options available)

This setup gives 130% fast cast, enough to reach the final bp, 50 fhr from items alone, and decent + skills and life.


Setup # 2

Helm: Wormskull (shaeled)

Ammy: +1 Nec with 10% fcr

Weapon: Wiz or suicide branch

Armor: Skin of Vipermagi, Stealth runeword

Shield: Wall of the eyeless or Lidless wall

Gloves: Magefists

Rings: +Life and/or Mana rings

Belt: +Life Belt

Boots: +life boots with 30% faster run/walk

This is the setup for the very poor, but the cast rate is still 130%. Which is the most important thing in this duel.

Most people fall between these 2 extremities, so customize items accordingly to best suit your budget and need. However, its crucial to keep the following things in mind.

There are 5 important variables in Boner v Boner (from most important to least): fast cast rate, fast hit recovery, life, skills, and mana. You should break 125% cast for this and every other duel. Another thing to watch for is fast hit revocery (fhr). This is often a overlooked variable in people's minds, but don't relegate this to the sidelines. It will save you in situations where more life simply can not. Perfect scenario is when you are exchanging bone spears (which happens roughly 90% of the time). Fast hit recovery allows you to become unstunned so you can get out and recover, or recover faster than the other guy so he will be stunned in place. 56 fhr is a good place to aim for, but 86 fhr may be necessary sometimes.

Having more life than the other guy gives you an edge over him, simple as that. Try to optimize by getting life charms, or even better, skillers with life. Skills is somewhat important. Although if your damage is too low it will definitely cause problems. Finally mana. Mana is the last thing you should consider because you can control this. You can determine for yourself how and when to fire. Some people can do fine with 800 mana, while some need 1000+.

So there you have it. I hope it was as much a pleasure to read as it was to write. As always, any feedback and comments are welcome. :)

Relive The Stupidty
18-07-2004, 22:52
My necro has 95 fcr and 10 fhr (my gear still sucks lol) and dose just fine in NvN, also a way to do very good in NvN is to make a bwallbase now now i know what ur thinking "bwallbase? isnt that for barbs?" but i use a bwallbase for everything except FOHers casue BS is a automatic tracker and will attack nearest player monster ect. so it will hit your bwall leaveing you time to bs them back. Oh and btw rebiuld ur bwalls as they break.




Cheers

Slipin
19-07-2004, 00:48
Fine mini guide, I used to love NvN duels in .09, but enigma ruined it for me, but fine mini guide nonetheless, look forward to see future updates.

soulesschild
19-07-2004, 01:01
Interesting Pallidum, I will provide my own personal insight.

First off, there are two different types of NvNing. Teleporting and Non-teleporting. Let me make this very very clear, if you you don't have enigma, you will not win agaisnt skilled teleport users. Simple as that, don't even think you have the slightest chance.

Now I will cover Teleport NvN first.

4 Major things to keep in mind:

1. 125% Faster Cast. Absolute must. Don't have it? Don't try dueling skilled people at anything less then 125.

2. 56/86 FHR. While I'm still kind of iffy on this on whether 56 or 86 is worth all the gear sacrafice to get 86 and if it's even THAT helpful. But get at least 56.

3. Life. More life = lasts longer. Simple as that. 2k+ with CTA, my necromancer has 3233 life in NvN mode. And he's not a vitamancer either :)

4. Mana. Unless you plan on being BM or are just a spirit spamming newbie pubby, then you need to have high mana. I recommend 1k+. My necromancer has 1.3k with CTA BO, and about 1k without it.

In non-teleport duels, the priorities are pretty much the same, with cast a little less emphasis, but still a major player. Except you have a new requirement, and that is R/W. You need quite a bit, I'd aim for 95+, try to trade for those 5% r/w / mana charms. But keep in mind that those are expensive.

You're also thinking, why not damage? The reason is because you frankly don't need it. You should be doing around 4k-5.4k spear/spirit damage without marrowalks if you're a serious necromancer player. And that 4k-5.5k damage is enough to take out someone. Damage isn't everything, remember, bigger isnt better in terms of damage. Sure I could use HOTO, but it costs my mana, and faster cast setup. I personally think HOTO is overrated and people laugh at me using wizardspike until I obliterate them. So keep this in mind.

Gearwise is pretty much the same as pallidum suggested, however this is my block-mancer's gear in NvN mode:

Helm: Shako, Jah or shaeled depending on if i want to hit that 86 FHR bp
Amulet: Crafted amulet with +1 nec, 19% faster cast, (damn i wish it was 2)
Rings: 2x Caster rings (you'll see why later)
Belt: Crafted caster belt with 24 FHR, 47 life, 19 mana, and +str
Gloves: Bloodfists, life and FHR (thanks to pallidum for suggesting this)
Shield: Jahed Darkforce Spawn (who needs resist in NvN?)
Weapon: Wizardspike (7 FHR jewel with +res, trying to get a better one), also use a +8 spear white wand when I feel like it
Boots: Waterwalks (Don't use the marrowbug)

I of course could use my circlet with faster cast and run/walk, but I like shako's life/mana better.

End outcome of my setup:

3233 life with shako, 2.8k with a circlet with battle orders, 1.3k mana, or 1.2k mana with circlet

125%+ FC, don't have a calculator handy and I'm lazy to do sums in my head

56/86 FHR depending on if I want it or not

A very decent 4k spear/spirit, or a 5.7k spear using my white wand, which requires some modification to gear of course.


Anyway, in teleporting duels, you'll want to try and tele-lock your opponent and spear them to death. Sure you could play IBS war all day, just sit back, cast a few bone walls, and just spam spam spam chugging those blue pots, but I find that very boring and it shows that you're just another pubby newb. Tele-locking fast and efficently takes some practice, but if you get good at it, you'll be noticing how much easier pubs are and how much less you chug mana potions.

In non-teleporting duels, you'll be using spear/teeth most of the time, running as close as you can to an opponent to get within spear range and try to "lead" them into spears. It's quite challenging and fun.

Well that's all I can think of off the top of my head. Back to my state of depression.

Pallidum
19-07-2004, 02:22
Thanks for the feedback everyone.

To Relieve- Personally I dont like to make too many bonewalls because it can sometimes lag the game and make the frame rate drop. Also if someone has enigma he will try to get close and spear you like a drive by.

To Slipin- I liked NvN in .09 also, but it just took on a new dimension in 1.10. I find that NvN now is much more fast paced and exciting with teleport, and the new usage of teeth, spear, and spirit. I will try to update this as much as I can.

To Souless- Thanks for the suggestions. We share the same idea strategy wise, so theres no need for me to repeat it.

In pub duels or some priv clan duels where oak charges are permissable, it can add over 900 life to the orb. In addition, I have found that oak can also minion stack. By this I mean that if a spear passes you with the oak still on top, it will die first and shield you from a direct hit. This is why I prefer hoto over wiz in situations where oaks are allowed. If oak charges are banned, then Wiz wold be a better choice.

Lastly, I also think 56/86 fhr is necessary because of spear exchanges. Now if the two of you are virtually right on top of another and you both have namelock, the one who connects first will almost always win, regardless of life or fhr. However if you are 1/2 screen apart or farther and the same thing happens, then fhr comes into play. You might notice that when you are in stun animation, the spears you threw but havent hit the guy yet will do no damage when it connects. The more fhr you have, the faster the stun animation can be over. Not only that, but you can put the other guy in stun animation faster as well.

All of this can happen in less than a second. NvN now is much more fast paced and requires a steady hand and lightning reflexes. With practice, it can be very exciting and fun.

soulesschild
19-07-2004, 03:55
agreed. 1.10 NvN is alot more fast paced, however, i feel that it's also LESS gear based IMO. Other then life charms, everything else is relatively cheaper.

NecroManiac
19-07-2004, 05:17
You're also thinking, why not damage? The reason is because you frankly don't need it. You should be doing around 4k-5.4k spear/spirit damage without marrowalks if you're a serious necromancer player. And that 4k-5.5k damage is enough to take out someone. Damage isn't everything, remember, bigger isnt better in terms of damage. Sure I could use HOTO, but it costs my mana, and faster cast setup. I personally think HOTO is overrated and people laugh at me using wizardspike until I obliterate them. So keep this in mind.

Boots: Waterwalks (Don't use the marrowbug


Thats exactly how i feel, like u said in a different post, 2 great minds think alike... hmm... :clap:


edit: o btw how do u have 2.1k base life with max block...

Slipin
19-07-2004, 05:52
o btw how do u have 2.1k base life with max block... he twinked his necro to hell :lol:.

soulesschild
19-07-2004, 06:08
yes hes twinked to hell and back lol