A newb question about WW barbarian

[Sinbios]

i never use barbarian before and i dont know much about his two handed system

is that WW barbarian can WW with two colossus blades? what is the difference with WW with only 1 colossus blade? WHICH ONE DOES MORE DMG or they are just the same?

why some ppl say that it is better to use a eBoTD war pike barbarian for WW?

Thank you i am interested in making a WW barb and Gmoura's guide is very good even for me(Newbie) :lol:

Another question: is GF useful for any build? it seems that when it compares with BotD CB and Warpike it's too weak

THX for answering my questions :clap:

[acceleration turkey]

i never use barbarian before and i dont know much about his two handed system

is that WW barbarian can WW with two colossus blades? what is the difference with WW with only 1 colossus blade? WHICH ONE DOES MORE DMG or they are just the same?

why some ppl say that it is better to use a eBoTD war pike barbarian for WW?

Thank you i am interested in making a WW barb and Gmoura's guide is very good even for me(Newbie) :lol:

Another question: is GF useful for any build? it seems that when it compares with BotD CB and Warpike it's too weak

THX for answering my questions :clap:


hello, these are important questions for understanding the basics of making a barb so dont feel bad for asking. the following is all pvm advice.

the WW skill's ability to hit works on a breakpoint system. the most ias you have on your weapon, the higher breakpoint you can hit. ias which is off-weapon does not help.

2 handed weapons
0 10 frames
-10 8 frames
-30 6 frames
-60 4 frames

1 handed weapons and 2 handed swords held in 2 hands
0 8 frames
-10 6 frames
-35 4 frames

basically you really want a WW weapon to hit the last breakpoint (BP) in order to hit at 4 frames. the second to last BP is 6 frames. 4 frames is only 2 frames faster than 6, but it is 33% more hits.

the lower the frames (4 is low) the more hit checks are performed. literally, if you run around with a 0% ias 2 handed weapon, the best you can do is 10 frames, which is actually slower than a 9 frame 1 hander like azurewrath. of course, if you have really poor chance to hit, frequent hit checks wont help. butm, conversely, even if you have 95% chance to hit, if you arent checking for hits every 4 frames WW is not being used enough.

dual weilding and using WW allowed you to reach even higher hit checks. the speed calc i am using right now seems to suggest that if you dual weild and hit the -35 BP you can get to 2 frames, and so dual weilding can double your hit check. however, i had always heard that dual weilding gave an extra 50% hit check, not 100%, so i was expecting 3 frames from a dual weild attack. hopefully someone else can say more, unless its already in the guide.

in any case, both dual weilding and single weilding have their advantages. in the end i think dual weilding is superior. heres my opinion:

the advantage to dual weilding is more hit checks, which means more potential hits.
the advantage to single weilding is that you can use a range 5 weapon, which also means more hits.
however, if you use a single weapon, you can only use mods from that weapon. if you dual weild, you can get mods from both weapons, meaning crushing blow and other valuable mods that arent diminished in effectiveness by the lower damage of a 1 hand weapon.

some people will say you should use a 1 hand weapon and a shield. just know that you not only cant have range 5, but you also cant have the high hit checking of dual weilding, so you lose both of those goodies. if you are a careless player (dont pay close attention to actual fighting) or a hardcore player (need to be safe), you probably want a shield. if you want to kill as fast as possible by picking good WW lines, then get a 2 hander or dual weild.

for 2 handed weapon classes, there are basically 3 standouts. axes and maces are poor WW weapons. none of them are above range 3. spears are good because they are either range 4 or 5. polarms are good because they also have range 5 weapons in their family. swords are good because they only need to get to -35 to hit the last BP, even though they are only range 3.

as for as BotD goes, the best 2 handed base is the great poleaxe. a war pike is a base [20] speed, so it would need 80% ias on weapon to hit -60, and BotD only adds 60%. so a BotD warpike only reaches 6 frames, which the higher damage does not make up for. a great poleaxe has range 5 and htis the last BP. the only other 6 socket range 5 weapon with base [0] that hits the -60 BP is the ghost spear, and it has poorer minimum damage and also a ridiculous dex requirement (163 dex). great poleaxe looks awesome, and performs in an awesome way. w00t. the giant thresher is also range 5 with 6 sockets, but does poorer damage because it is base [-10], so it has lower damage built-in.

for WW, GF is just plain not good enough. its only range 3, and with a shael it can only get to -15 speed, meaning 6 frames. when held 1 handed it reaches the max range of 3, but still only has a 6 frame output. for reference, the death cleaver has range 3, 4 frames, defense cut, and much lower requirements, and the same (or higher) damage. the grandfather is still a great weapon, but many of the new additions to 1.1 have a sheer damage ability which dwarfs it. you may still choose to use it for its other bonuses however.

[Sinbios]

Oh really thx :clap: ur answer is extreme detailed which helps my understanding a lot :winner:

But i want to ask a few more questions

If i use two CB together but one has break the Breakpoint but another one doesnt eg. one reach 4 frames but another one 6 frames
What will my WW be?

If i use two BotD CB for WW will i enjoy double of the following mods? (double for one BotD)
50% Chance To Cast Level 20 Poison Nova When You Kill An Enemy
Indestructible
+60% Increased Attack Speed
+350-400% Enhanced Damage (varies)
+200% Damage To Undead
-25% Target Defense
+50 To Attack Rating
+50 To Attack Rating Against Undead
7% Mana Stolen Per Hit
12-15% Life Stolen Per Hit (varies)
Prevent Monster Heal
+30 To All Attributes WOW 60 to All Attributes
+1 To Light Radius
Requirements -20%

i hv visited blizzard homepage it said
Whirlwind attacks 50% more if you are dual wielding. Whirlwind will also alternate between two weapons when you use two weapons.

So can it solve the question about 50% or 100% hit check

Thx for answering my stupid questions :clap:

[Herald of Doom]

Aaaaah, I'm back from Rock Werchter ! Time to answer some questions.

OK, I'm not an expert at dual weilding, but I do think that every weapon has it's seperate effects like crushing blow, but the stats add up. So 2*BotD would give 60 attributes, but only 7% ml and 12-15%ll or 200%ed to undead for each hit with one of the weapons. The alternating means that they hit one after another. First the left weapon, then right, left again, right. So they don't both hit at the same time, they do however hit more times in a row. I think... I was never really intrested in dual weilding.

Herald

[Halciet]

Aaaaah, I'm back from Rock Werchter ! Time to answer some questions.


Oh HoD, thank God you're back! I was lost without you here to handle remedial tasks like answering repeat questions and fixing dinner! I couldn't find out where you put the remote! Was I supposed to water the n00bs?

Hahahah, glad you're back buddy :lol:

-Hal

[Herald of Doom]

Oh HoD, thank God you're back! I was lost without you here to handle remedial tasks like answering repeat questions and fixing dinner! I couldn't find out where you put the remote! Was I supposed to water the n00bs?

Hahahah, glad you're back buddy :lol:

-Hal

I missed you too :buddies: :cheesy:But check this out: http://www.rockwerchter.be/RW2004/splash.htm, I just couldn't resist. But I'm back in action now, ready to fight ignorance and bad information again ! Although tbh, I really need to wash my clothes first, 4 days without showering= smelly Herald+smelly clothes. :lol:

HoD

[acceleration turkey]

Oh really thx :clap: ur answer is extreme detailed which helps my understanding a lot :winner:

But i want to ask a few more questions

If i use two CB together but one has break the Breakpoint but another one doesnt eg. one reach 4 frames but another one 6 frames
What will my WW be?

If i use two BotD CB for WW will i enjoy double of the following mods? (double for one BotD)
50% Chance To Cast Level 20 Poison Nova When You Kill An Enemy
Indestructible
+60% Increased Attack Speed
+350-400% Enhanced Damage (varies)
+200% Damage To Undead
-25% Target Defense
+50 To Attack Rating
+50 To Attack Rating Against Undead
7% Mana Stolen Per Hit
12-15% Life Stolen Per Hit (varies)
Prevent Monster Heal
+30 To All Attributes WOW 60 to All Attributes
+1 To Light Radius
Requirements -20%

i hv visited blizzard homepage it said
Whirlwind attacks 50% more if you are dual wielding. Whirlwind will also alternate between two weapons when you use two weapons.

So can it solve the question about 50% or 100% hit check

Thx for answering my stupid questions :clap:

as HoD said, the mods which do not directly apply to your weapon will stack. +stats does not apply to your weapon, it applies to your character and then back to your weapon, so it can be doubled. but the damage, leech, -defense etc applies to the weapon and wont stack on the other weapon. +60 to all is nice indeed.

in general i wouldnt trust the arreat summit to be schooled in the science of WW and other complex questions considering it has so many simple things wrong. there are plenty of people on this board who have made lots of dual wield WW barbs and they can supply you with whether it is 50 or 100% greater hit checks.

[mstrnicegui]

From what I understand, dual wielding will provide 100% more hit checks as long as there are at least 2 targets in range for each hit check, since you can't hit with both weapons at the same target at the same time. The weapons do alternate at 2 fps (left, right, left, right) vs a single weapon checking 4 fps. So in 4 fps you get a hit check from both weapons as long as there are 2 targets in range.

While theoretically you can get 100% more hitchecks, it effectively turns out to be more like 50% due to the fact that 2 targets have to be in range all the time to get the full effectiveness.

[norvi11erogers]

From what I understand, dual wielding will provide 100% more hit checks as long as there are at least 2 targets in range for each hit check, since you can't hit with both weapons at the same target at the same time. The weapons do alternate at 2 fps (left, right, left, right) vs a single weapon checking 4 fps. So in 4 fps you get a hit check from both weapons as long as there are 2 targets in range.

While theoretically you can get 100% more hitchecks, it effectively turns out to be more like 50% due to the fact that 2 targets have to be in range all the time to get the full effectiveness.

from my understanding, this is not entirely correct. if you have two weapons attacking at the same speed, at the final breakpoint, your first swing will be with your primary, and each check afterwards will check both weapons. these checks happen every 4 frames. there is good information around, especially at the lurkerlounge forums.

[AdunaCCDanimoth]

The more I see people talk about BPs, the more I question if anyone can build a similar character from scratch.....

[invispoet]

funny how a self-proclaimed 'noob' has access to not one, but TWO BotD weapons. and a Grandfather. Talk about a f***ed up economy.

[acceleration turkey]

funny how a self-proclaimed 'noob' has access to not one, but TWO BotD weapons. and a Grandfather. Talk about a f***ed up economy.


cant he be rich but new to the class? maybe all his other characters are mf sorcs :lol:

[Sinbios]

haha THX all for answering my questions

Some ppl said that even for WW Barb u need 1 pt in WW only is it true?

my plan
20 shout 20 BO 20 weapon mastery 20 WW

is it 20 WW is not worth investing?

if yes so i should go WWZerker or sth else?

if not i will just go 20 WW

what is the pros and cons :lol:

in fact i tried countless NM andy run but it seems that SOJ never appeal to me :cheesy:

I get that GF from Ancient tunnel but it seems to be useless T_____T

[mstrnicegui]

With a ww build you have more than enough skill points to max ww and add in a whole secondary attack if you pleased.

The reason people say that maxing ww is a waste is the minimal dmg increase it gives and the increased mana usage. My opinion is that the dmg increase is always welcomed, and necessary, and those people forget about the increased ar which is also very necessary.

There is no reason not to max ww. The mana problem is offset by the increased dmg and ar from more points in ww.

Axe/shield barbs have lower dex/str requirements than sword/shield barbs and do as much/more dmg.

[Sinbios]

Thanks

Another Question: I FEEL WW VERY DIFFICULT TO CONTROl


i use it in RIGHT HAND but i always miss the targets. I cant hit them easily.

Any method /skills to control WW?

[mcm]

http://www.realmsbeyond.net/diablo/stratewwology.html

[Sinbios]

THX VERY MUCH

i find it very useful i will practise more :flip: (PRACTICE MAKES PERFECT CAN APPLY TO MY BARB) :lol:

BUT USUALLY YOU ALL use LEFT /RIGHT HAND FOR WW?

[mstrnicegui]

I always put ww on right click, because it is a skill best used when clicking past an enemy. Any ww build I make has concentrate permanently set to left click.

[banemalor]

what about using a gf and a ls? would the effect of the ls ignore target defense work on both swords or would it only affect the hits the ls would make?

[acceleration turkey]

what about using a gf and a ls? would the effect of the ls ignore target defense work on both swords or would it only affect the hits the ls would make?


'attack' mods only work on a given weapon. 'character' mods can stack.

crushing blow would be an attack mod, whereas +20 to strength would be a character mod. i believe this is largely why a lot of people use beast with botd when dueling. beast's large strength bonus increases the botd damage because +strength is not an attack mod.

so ignore defense would not apply to the GF.

[rikstaker]

THX VERY MUCH

i find it very useful i will practise more :flip: (PRACTICE MAKES PERFECT CAN APPLY TO MY BARB) :lol:

BUT USUALLY YOU ALL use LEFT /RIGHT HAND FOR WW?

I use ww on left,holding shift to ww,I have more control that way and I can have howl/taunt/battlecry/warcry on right and quickly switch through them depending on the situation.

You can taunt the range monsters and make them come at u in a straight line,while u ww through them.Very useful for a short range weapon like IK maul.