My first new barb - help needed with building

[NightyNight]

Hey everybody i started my first new barb yesterday and he is currently lvl 13 (actually it's my second one, i opened another one a few hours before but i opened a new one because i've decided not to use the IK set and i have invested skill points in mace mastery for the maul...which i am still not sure about :S)

So my build is gonna be this

20 WhirlWind
20 Shout
20 Battle orders
20 Sword mastery

Utilities:
1 to Leap attack
1 to Concentrate
1 to Berserk
1 to Battle cry
1 to Taunt
1 or more to Iron skin
1 or more to Natural resits
1 to Increased speed

And I'm gonna use the following:
Helm: Arreat's face - Need to get

Armor: Haven't decided yet, ill use Duriel's shell for starters...or Atma's anyway i got those...dunno :P help me with this.

Boots: Upgraded gore riders\sandstorms - got them

Gloves: Dracul's grasp - need to get, meanwhile using bloodfists

belt: Nosferatu's coil - got it

Weapon: Haven't decided yet, I've got a DoomBringer, i've got 2 swordguards (is that how it's called? :P), now, i have a dilema, i really dont know what to use, i've planned on 2 swordguards and when ill be able to use doombringer ill use doombringer in 1 hand for the dmg AR life and life leech which are offensive and swordguard in the other hand for it's defensive bonuses (And i've heard that when using 2 weapons with WW it gives you +50% dmg or something like that), but i can't decide between those or a perfect IK maul or IK maul is more dmg and LOADS of extra dmg vs. demons and undead and that's why i can't decide, oh and the 40% crushing blow is great and 2 sockets for an ED\IAS jewel and life leech or more IAS :P so this is my main problem, oh and I've put 1 skill point into sword mastery, so if it'll be an IK maul i will lose only 1 skill point off the build.

Thx ahead, have a nice day (or night:P) =]

[Halciet]

You'll want to manage better than doombringer, as one-handed, it doesn't carry very well in hell. Likewise, I'd probably go sword/shield before I'd go two-swords, just because blocking saves lives.

Replace dracul's with steelrends or such, as lifetap doesn't trigger with whilrwind.

-Hal

[NightyNight]

Hmmm...Any more advice?

[mstrnicegui]

read gmoura's ww guide stickied at the top of the forums. His gear selection is pretty good and the replies to his post give even more info.

[NightyNight]

Hmmm thx, oh and halciet - a perfect doombringer can be 250-350 dmg 1 handed, which is not bad at all, although mine is 110-200 or so :S

Oh and I got a full sigon's set for low lvles and a warcries +16 life skiller =]

[mstrnicegui]

Doombringer mainly sucks for ww because it can't hit the last ww breakpoint (-35 1-hand and all swords) even when socketed with a shael. And its max 1-hand dmg is only 117-292, which lowers the avg dmg quite a bit.

[TheZealot]

lol perfect doom bringer doesnt do 350dmg 1 hand thats 2 hand.doom sucks, get botd if u can, theres really no point making s/w ww barb if u dont have botd. one simply season u cant kill SHlT in hell without botd. my suggestions is make ik barb or maul barb. get eth earthshifter, for highest possible dmg, also get botd tmaul if ucan afford. and theres no point playing now ladder gonna end in days, weeks if its delayed

[Halciet]

oh and halciet - a perfect doombringer can be 250-350 dmg 1 handed

Nawp, as the others mentioned, it can't break 300.

-Hal

[Angry]

lol perfect doom bringer doesnt do 350dmg 1 hand thats 2 hand.doom sucks, get botd if u can, theres really no point making s/w ww barb if u dont have botd. one simply season u cant kill SHlT in hell without botd. my suggestions is make ik barb or maul barb. get eth earthshifter, for highest possible dmg, also get botd tmaul if ucan afford. and theres no point playing now ladder gonna end in days, weeks if its delayed
how can people afford botd playing new ladder? i mean i understand that most of them are results of the dupers?

[mstrnicegui]

TheZealot:
While botd tmaul just looks cool, it is by far not the best botd 2-hand weapon. And there are weapons that kick *** that are not botd... eth zoded death cleaver, eth upped 3 shaeled hone sundan, dual shaeled bonehew, eth shaeled zoded tomb reaver (or just shaeled tomb reaver even).

There are plenty of weapon choices (including full ik set), that will own everything pvm. While BoTD is commonly acknowledged as the best, it is not the only solution that takes care of pvm without a problem.

Angry:
It is wholly because of the dupers that there are so many of the high rune runewords floating around. If it weren't for the duping, there would be many many fewer of the godliest items running around. And people wouldn't go around thinking the only way to kill monsters is with a botd weapon.

[Angry]

i figured as much, i never understood how people can believe that of all the weapons the game offers, only 1 actually kills...

[rikstaker]

did it ever occur to any of you that doombringer can be ethreal,its comes with indestructible mod.

a perfect eth would hit 383 max 1 handed,pop a 40 ed jewel and its upto 416,with 20% life bonus and 40% ar,it is a highly underrated wep.But yes it is just not suited for ww.

[mstrnicegui]

It has occurred to me that doombringer could be ethereal. But then I learned that anything that drops indestructible, a la doombringer, phase blades of any sort, bows, butcher's pupil, etc etc, cannot be ethereal. Have you ever seen an ethereal one of anything I've listed? That's because they don't exist.

[rikstaker]

It has occurred to me that doombringer could be ethereal. But then I learned that anything that drops indestructible, a la doombringer, phase blades of any sort, bows, butcher's pupil, etc etc, cannot be ethereal. Have you ever seen an ethereal one of anything I've listed? That's because they don't exist.
yikes!that never occured to me!I was actually searching for an eth gf lol!!
ignore post everyone!

[Halciet]

*sigh*

I need to retire. Everyone is questioning everything I say these days.

-Hal

[Herald of Doom]

*sigh*

I need to retire. Everyone is questioning everything I say these days.

-Hal
Agreed. I vote for HoD as the new barb king :wink2: :king:

HoD

[Halciet]

Agreed. I vote for HoD as the new barb king :wink2: :king:

HoD

LOL

I should apply for moderator, and then you can take my place as "general question answerer," and then we'd be set. You'll answer the questions, and when someone gets you aggitated, you can pm for 2 weeks before I respond and ban them.

-Hal

[Herald of Doom]

LOL

I should apply for moderator, and then you can take my place as "general question answerer," and then we'd be set. You'll answer the questions, and when someone gets you aggitated, you can pm for 2 weeks before I respond and ban them.

-Hal
Well, I could pull some strings with certain people to speed up the proces I suppose. IF, and only IF, I would be the real brains (nothing different from the present situation tbh :D) and you would be my puppet. I wouldn't have that ugly green colour, but all the power. You would be Halciet and do all the dirty work. How does that sound? :innocent:

HoD

[NightyNight]

But IK set sux ;/ Can't I kill without IK Maul\BotD? That can't be.

OK I am currently lvled 18 and I got 1 skill point into the following:

Leap
Leap attack
Iron skin
increased stamina
sword mastery
shout
battle cry
howl
bash
stun
concentrate

So I am open to changes.

I got Arreat's face =]

I got the full IK Set but only the full set bonuses are nice all rest of stats on the items kinda suck ;/

Hmmm...I got that doombringer, 2 swordguards and lightsaber so far...dunno if I will be able to get BotD...I greatly doubt it, I mean, of course I can but I will have to sell stuff that I currently use with other chars ;/

How much does an Eth Colossus blade BotD costs? ;/

Oh, and I can't kill **** in hell with WW but I can with concentrate? :S

[mstrnicegui]

ww kills more quickly than conc with a proper ww weapon, one that hits -60 weapon speeed with enough dmg and at least 3 range.

[NightyNight]

Is "Grandfather" an option???

[TheZealot]

gf too slow, dont make ww barb if u dont have botd, doikng 5k dmg in hell in 8ppl game doesnt kill anything. it probably takes 10 ww to kill a rat. conc would be the best bet.

[NightyNight]

I will have some points in Conc, I mean 1+skill bonuses, the diffrence between lvl 1 conc+20 bo to lvl 20conc+lvl20 bo is only 160%ED or so. and 5k in hell is pretty nice I dont see what's wrong with 5k, barb with BotD have over 5k dmg??

Oh and I dont expect killing things easily in hell 8 players game, only hammerdins and some sorcs can do that easily :S and maybe trappers too.

And dont forget that battle cry is -60 target's defence and if I'll use IK maul it'll be +250%ED vs undead and 200% vs demons :S

It can't be, without BotD I can't do anything?! Are barbs that weak?!

I see lots of ppl using grandfather and doing OK...

Oh and why do I have to reach max speed for WW?

Anyhow, 1 handed doombringer can reach 200 min dmg, and an IK maul can do even more :S

Dunno, what can I tell you ;/ I'll probably never get BotD, because I need Zod ;/

Famine is godly and It may do the job? :S not that I can get that too but stiill :S
http://www.diabloii.net/items/runes/runewords/famine.php

Maybe if ull tell me how much does a BotD costs i'll know if there's a chance.

So you're saying that I should go for conc? I don't mind, actually conc barb is more fun because you need (and have time :S) to use battle cry and taunt =]

[Halciet]

Doombringer cannot do 200 minimum damage when used one-handed. It caps at 117 MINIMUM, 292 maximum when used 1h. IK maul can do more, but then again, it's a 2h weapon - it's supposed to do more. The sad point about its damage is comparable to that of a good 1h weapon.

Most of us arn't saying that barbs are only good if you have a BoTD, what we were trying to tell you is that most of your weapon choices are just too slow to be extremely effective. Sure, you won't do horribly, but you likewise won't do excessively well using the likes of Grandfather and especailly Hellslayer. Famine is a nice choice; the mods are pretty powerful, it's just a matter of sticking it in a weapon that will hit breakpoints using the onboard ias; the problem is that since it's limited to only hammers and axes, your options for that are pretty limited.

Again, you need to hit max frames with whirlwind in order to get more attacks per whirl. More ias = more opportunities to hit per whirl, the benefits of which we have discussed ad nauseum. You don't HAVE to reach max frames, but it's for your own benefit.

As for BoTD prices, I'm not sure on them, as I don't trade, but I know they're not totally outrageous. And yes, a good BotD weapon with excellent supporting gear and skill/stat distribution can do well over 5k damage (my conc barb dies 7.3k base, and over 9k 1-hand damage with his merc using a BotD berserker axe).

-Hal

edit: I also wanted to point out that the reason I was suggesting Conc over Whirlwind if you WERE going to use Hellslayer is because Conc is affected by off-weapon ias, so it would be a bit easier to get some speed on it, and the skill itself is defense oriented, which would help make up for no shield and the slow swing. Whirl is a bad idea for all the reasons I've mentioned above.

[NightyNight]

Oh...My doombriner is 110-260 1 handed or so :S
Hmmmm...Assuming I will never get BotD, I will go for conc after all I guess...dunno.

OK, so here's the million dollars question... WHAT THE HELL SHOULD I USE ***BESIDES BOTD*** for a 1 handed weapon????

Edit: Using conc.

[Halciet]

Doom, Beast, Death Cleaver, Stormlash, Nord's, Cresent Moon, Famine, Azurewrath, Up'd pupil, Cruel _____ of _____, etc. Any of those are nice. Just look for damage with a nice base speed, and then use the calculator to determine how much ias you need for breaks (stats.diabloii.net).

-Hal

[rikstaker]

apologies to hal & mstr for the careless post earlier.

[mstrnicegui]

nothing to be sorry about as it was an honest mistake. Oh, everybody listen to hal, he knows what he's talking about. Sometimes I even know what I'm talking about... but all the rest, I just quote hal from one of his 1k+ posts.

[Halciet]

hah hah, shucks gui, I'm just thankful someone takes some of the question-answering out of my hands ;)

rik - don't worry about it chief, everyone reads or posts things wrong from time to time. Frustration and lack of sleep tend to do that to you =)

-Ha

[rikstaker]

hah hah, shucks gui, I'm just thankful someone takes some of the question-answering out of my hands ;)

rik - don't worry about it chief, everyone reads or posts things wrong from time to time. Frustration and lack of sleep tend to do that to you =)

-Ha

u read minds man!spot on! :thumbsup:

[KaUgA]

Again, you need to hit max frames with whirlwind in order to get more attacks per whirl. More ias = more opportunities to hit per whirl, the benefits of which we have discussed ad nauseum. You don't HAVE to reach max frames, but it's for your own benefit.

-Hal

edit: I also wanted to point out that the reason I was suggesting Conc over Whirlwind if you WERE going to use Hellslayer is because Conc is affected by off-weapon ias, so it would be a bit easier to get some speed on it, and the skill itself is defense oriented, which would help make up for no shield and the slow swing. Whirl is a bad idea for all the reasons I've mentioned above.

Hellslayer with Conc? Could you give an average amount of damage one might expect from that combo? I know the question is really vague, but can you give me a ballpark figure of, say, a lvl 70-80 barb using hellslayer with conc? Like I said, it vague, but I'm sure you have it in you Hal
US EAST *Kauuga

[Halciet]

Well, at level 80, a hellslayer is providing 100-607 damage base, along with 40 str. Assuming you had 200 str with items, level 24 Conc/20 BO/22 Axe mastery (that's 20 of each with Arreat's Face, ignoring anything over 20 in BO since synergies arn't affected by +skills), that'd be:

200 + 185 + 200 + 133 + 40 (str from slayer) = 858% damage bonus;

100 * 9.58 = 958;

607 * 9.58 = 5815.06, rounding to 5815

The apply the min/max fire bonus, and you have around 1108 - 6065, so averaging around 3586.6, or 3586 damage a swing. With effort, you could push down to 13 frames (75 ias), or with extreme sacrifices, 12 (109), but that's pretty much as fast as you'll be able to get it.

Just wanted to point out that the Hellslayer remark wasn't meant for this thread; since the boards are kinda shakey, I have the practice of opening up all new threads at once and replying to each in turn; I got this thread mixed up with one in which a guy was wanting to use Hellslayer, thus that reference. Sorry for the confusion on that ;)

-Hal

[Halciet]

Whoops, looks like I added base twice in that last total, as I was in a hurry to get to class. That should've been 758% ed, not 858%, making it 858 total for the functions.

So:

1008-5458, averaging 3233.

-Hal

[NightyNight]

I think that I'll go for doombringer in left hand for the huge AR, Life and leech bonuses and grandfather in the right hand (Concentrate only hits with 1 hand right?) for dmg.
=] not closed on that though.