i need an untwinked MFer = Skellimancer... but help me compare these variations pls

[Simbacca]

hello

i have read the Fishymancer guide, Toxic Summoner (what i call the Poison/Summon hybrid) guides, Undead Summoner (what i call the Bone/Summon hybrid) guide, and the Skellimancer bible but i still have a few questions or maybe just want to verify a few things.

my primary concern here is to build a necro that can kill monster packs in 8-player games (pit runs) and bosses quickly while being untwinked.

i need him to be untwinked because i am poor again due to my longer hiatus, but also so i can fill him with MF gear that i acquire.

also remember, since i am untwinked there wont be many +skills gear.


my questions are:

- is it necessary to max CE or are a few points ok?

- r revives needed?

- do i have to max RS or is 15 SPs for 7 skeletons enough to save the 5 SPs?

- do i have to max SM, or could i save those 19 SPs?

- what is the better combo to invest extra pts in: Bone Spirit + Bone Spear, Poison Nova + a Synergy, or is it better just to pump CE, RS, SM, and curses?


remember, my primary concern here is to build a necro that can kill monster packs in 8-player games (pit runs) and bosses quickly while being untwinked.

i guess it is just hard for me to imagine that my necro will have sufficient killing speed, especially with bosses, without Bone Spirit or Poison Nova.

then again, perhaps skeletons are the powerful now and i just have to ditch my old v1.09 mentality :p


Simbacca
___________________________________________
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[ScatteredFire]

Skeletons are extremely viable now. They do excellent damage, especially if they're boosted with a Might mercenary and Amplify Damage. They're better for MFing, and if you don't want to do any work. Bone and such are better if you want to be more active in your gaming.

- is it necessary to max CE or are a few points ok?
CE damage is always relative. The only thing that points add is a larger radius, which isn't needed-the monsters should be in a small cluster, anyway.
- r revives needed?
They aren't needed, but you can have them, if you want. Personally, I dislike them for their low duration (3 minutes) and stupidity, but they're useful if you use them correctly. It's up to you.
- do i have to max RS or is 15 SPs for 7 skeletons enough to save the 5 SPs?
You don't have to max it, but it's highly recommended. Since your build will be based on them, you should max it for the life, damage, and number of skellies.
- do i have to max SM, or could i save those 19 SPs?
If you're going to use skellies, definately max this. It'll help you considerably.- what is the better combo to invest extra pts in: Bone Spirit + Bone Spear, Poison Nova + a Synergy, or is it better just to pump CE, RS, SM, and curses?
Poison Nova + synergy won't work in Hell if you don't have the right equipment, and even then, it might be difficult. Bone Spirit and Spear could work, but CE, RS, SM, and curses is most effective for MFing.

With max RS, SM, a Might mercenary, and Amplify Damage, you'll be able to ease your way through the game. You'll have to take things slowly in Hell, but you shouldn't be dying. The skeletons will be more than enough to kill for you, and your character will be hiding behind a wall, free to equip full MF gear.

[spartacvs]

You can check my mini guide for a untwiked summoner:
http://www3.sympatico.ca/guillaumep/necro.txt

That being said, You can also consider a meteorb sorc. She is a bit more limited (summoner can kill anything with amp damage) but she'll be a bit stronger. You'll then have a better killing speed, it's your choice. Same thing for hammerdin paladin.

[gvandale]

...consider a meteorb sorc...or hammerdin paladin.

That's just downright disgusting. Sorc? Hammerdin? RUBBISH I tell you.

Simple standard Skellymancer.

Must Haves
Max RS
Max SM
1 CG
1 GM
1 SR

1+ corpse explosion

1 amp damage
1+ decrepify (slvl 7-8 is best TOTAL)
1+ dim vision
1 confuse
1 attract

Secondary Options
Maxing Corpse Explosion: Gives a ridiculous radius, which can be very very helpful.
Maxing Skeleton Mages: Not necessary, some like it. I don't.
1+ into Revives: Not worth it IHMO. They are stupid. AI in their case stands for artificial idiocy.

For basic untwinked mf'ing, make max CE, SM, RS and call it a day.

g

[Necrochild313]

That's just downright disgusting. Sorc? Hammerdin? RUBBISH I tell you.

:thumbsup: :lol:

Those builds are definitely not for this guy. Both of those aren't very viable at all without already having good items. (dies too much, ect)

Summoner is the least item-dependant MFer out there. A four-ptopaz armor, 3 ptopaz helm and a magic wand and shield with magic mf boots and magic mf gloves, magic mf rings, crap you find all the time and toss will whip up a viable mf summoner.

[Dausuul]

:thumbsup: :lol:

Those builds are definitely not for this guy. Both of those aren't very viable at all without already having good items. (dies too much, ect)
Actually, my first ladder character on B.net - no twinking, no nothing - was a pure fire sorc. I had to get her rushed through a lot of Hell, since she couldn't deal with fire immunes, but she was quite good at running Meph (there are no fire immunes in the Durance except for the occasional unique). She got me enough decent gear that I was able to bootstrap my way up.

[gvandale]

meteorb was suggested, not pure fire. learn to read and comprehend before posting.

:thumbsup:

g

http://www3.sympatico.ca/guillaumep/necro.txt

[Dausuul]

I did in fact note that meteorb was mentioned. However, I was not aware that pure fire versus meteorb made that much difference. Hence I felt that my comment was at least moderately relevant. I have not actually played a meteorb sorc, so I could certainly be wrong, but my comment remains useful even if I am, since the guy now has another suggestion for a MF starting character. *shrug*

[gvandale]

Polite? What's that? :innocent:

I'd suggest a skellymancer against a pure fire sorc, because he can hang out in a1 hell and get a lot more then he would having to try to tele down to level 3 of durance.

The pits are the best mf spot in the game IHMO. Also, the countess is a great spot for runes.

Both of those spots would get pillaged by him like he's alexander the great! GOGO skelly-mf'er.

ps.
My first ladder char was a butt-naked skellymancer. He solo'd a1-a5 nm. He entered hell in his 50's.
He was completely pimped out in nice gear (self-found...thanks pits) and leveled up to about 70'ish, without ever seeing Andariel.

Thanks!

g

[Singollo]

if you are just going to magic find in the pit, i would go with summoner as well. i have s summoner i use for mf, he is one of the best mfers i have made next next to hammerdin. the hammerdin is nice for bosses and that where thay are better then summoner. summoners if made right can kill very fast and cover a lot of space if you are fast runner (items).

this is my build and works out nice for pit

max RS
max SM
max CE
max amp
1 in fire gold
1 in revive
1 in al curse
1 in summon resist
rest in lower resist

with max CE and amp you attack more area and therefor save a lot of time, only casteing amp once and CE 1-3 times

hope this helps, it works very well for me

good luck :thumbsup:

[Dausuul]

if you are just going to magic find in the pit, i would go with summoner as well. i have s summoner i use for mf, he is one of the best mfers i have made next next to hammerdin. the hammerdin is nice for bosses and that where thay are better then summoner. summoners if made right can kill very fast and cover a lot of space if you are fast runner (items).

this is my build and works out nice for pit

max RS
max SM
max CE
max amp
1 in fire gold
1 in revive
1 in al curse
1 in summon resist
rest in lower resist

with max CE and amp you attack more area and therefor save a lot of time, only casteing amp once and CE 1-3 times

hope this helps, it works very well for me

good luck :thumbsup:IMO it's not normally worth it to max amp. You're blowing 19 skill points to save yourself a few extra mouse clicks - although I suppose if raw pit-clearing speed is your only goal, that might be effective. Generally, I'd say that those points would be better spent in Magi, Dim Vision, or some direct damage. (Corpse Explosion is another matter; since you have a limited supply of corpses, you want to get the most out of each one, so maxing it makes more sense.)

Also, Lower Resist has killer diminishing returns at high levels; I wouldn't put more than about 5 natural points into it, tops.

[EuroJamie]

I don't see the point in Lower Resist at all for this build. Skeleton Warriors are all about Physical damage and Corpse Explosion is 50/50 with Elemental (fire), so what's the poin in using Lower Resist? That plus AD breaks any physical immunes. :yep: