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CEG
18-06-2004, 22:49
Hello everyone, this guide is will present a type of necromancer rarely seen in many games and often overlooked in the 1.10 patch. Most people choose the route of maxing all synergies and maxing out the damage of a certain spell or spell type (poison necros/bone necros, one tree sorceresses, etc). However, this necromancer will split points between both poison and bone spells.

Why go hybrid?
Many people overlook going hybrid due to low damage. Despite the inability to achieve the highest damage, going hybrid gains the player a degree of flexibility and versatility in both pvm and pvp aspects of the game. This versatility is the heart of this build.

Skills:
This necromancer's skills will be almost entirely focused in the poison and bone tree and minimal curse investment. Summons are ignored.

Poison and Bone Tree:
Teeth - 1 point
Bone Armor - 1 point
Corpse Explosion - 1 point
Poison Dagger - 10 points*
Bone Wall - 20 points
Spear - 20 points**
Poison Explosion - 1 point
Bone Prison - 0 or 20 points***
Bone Spirit - 5 points****
Poison Nova - 20 points

*10 points is all that will be spent into synergies for Poison Nova. With the gear selections I will explain later Poison Nova will not be in great need of more synergies. Poison Dagger is chosen due to its usefulness at low levels.
**Spear is going to be the bone spell of choice and needs to be maxed to reach signifigant damage.
***I dislike abusing a bug so I prefer to max prison. However if you do use the bug then you can max bone spirit or put more points into poison synergies
****With all the other bone synergies 5 points is all that is needed to raise the damage of spirit to a decent number with the gear selection.

Curse Tree:
1 point in all curses except the left hand AI curses. The reason is that every point is needed and I find that getting a wand with dim vision on switch works just fine.

Summoning Tree:
None, points are already in high demand and bone wall/prison works to hold off enemies.

Stat Points:
Strength - 100 is enough to allow you to wear most of the gear anyone would want. Strength also will be raised higher by the gear selection.
Dexterity - Either none or enough for max block with Homunculus (or 75 if you want to use a wizardspike)
Vitality - Everything else
Energy - None if your pvp or as much as you see fit.

Equipment Selection:
Now, it is undeniable that this build requires a generous ammount of plus to skills to really be able to work, but it isn't as expensive as you might think.

Rich Setup:
Helm: Shako/Godly rare circlet (cham if you need cbf here)
Armor: Enigma (preferably in Breastplate to lower need for str)
Weapon/Shield: HotO/Perfect Darkforce(or homunculus if you choose block)
Switch: CTA/Lidless
Belt: Arachnids Mesh
Gloves: Trangs
Boots: Sandstorm Treks or Marrowwalks
Amulet: Crafted +2 nec/20% fcr/life/mana/resists
Rings: soj/bk ring or soj/raven or bk ring/raven (matter of preference and where you choose to get cbf)
Charms:Anni, 10x pnb (preferably with good 2nd mod),9x life/mana sc's

This setup grants you the 125% fcr breakpoint if you choose darkforce. It is excellent for a vita setup and especially in pvp. It also gives a whopping +26 to the poison and bone tree (+16 all and +10 to poison and bone). With this setup you will have the following:
Poison Nova - 3723-3813 damage
Bone Spear - 3190-3350 damage
Bone Spirit - 2563-2749 damage
Bone Armor - absorbs 880

Also those numbers are without use of the marowwalk bug and assuming that the necro is finished at level 94. So potentially this build has a lot power. I myself do not even have all the gear since I am not rich so on to the easier to attain gear.

Not so Rich Equipment Selections:
Helm: Shako (it is fairly easy to get these days)
Armor: Vipermagi
Weapon: A nice white wand/Suicide Branch/Boneshade/Wizradspike/Blackhand Key/any 2 to nec skills wand
Shield: Homunculus/boneflame/lidless/rare +2 necro head
switch: Ummm, no useful items to switch to
Belt: Verdungo's/nightsmoke/glooms
Gloves: Trangs (just cant beat em for this build)
Boots: Waterwalks/silkweaves/aldurs
Amulet: +3 pnb/any +2 necro
Rings: ravenfrost and dwarf/decent rare/10% fcr/anything usefu
Charms: Whatever gives decent benefits

This setup will grant you a decent ammount of fcr and +skills. With a setup along these lines you will have more or less:
Poison Nova - 2001-2091 damage
Bone Spear - 1671-1768 damage
Bone Spirit - 1248-1365 damage
Bone Armor - abosrbs 730

Again this is assuming level 94 and no marrowwalk bug. Now these numbers look low, but I am currently level 82 (gear in between rich/not so rich) and my nova is about 500 higher than that and my bone spells are about the same. I have done well in pvp and pvm so it is not bad to make this char with not so rich gear.

Honorable mentions:
Death's Web - great wand, expensive though.

PvM:
This build was initially to be a pure pvp build, but while playing him I found that he actually could play the game.

Normal:
Normal with any necro (aside from summoner) is annoying due to lack of main spells. Basically just get a wep (bow socketed with gems works well) and go meleemancer style. Its normal so it is pretty easy to go melee style until you start getting your main spells. Even once you get your spells they are prety weak for a while. You will be able to max dagger first easily then work on spear, but once you can get nova, put most of your points in it and occasionally throw some into the bone spells. I suggest not leaving normal till level 42 (then you can use homunculus).

Nightmare:
Now nightmare surprised me. Lower resist + Poison Nova was able to really destroy them and even my bone spear was mozing the enemies down. Throughout the entirety of nightmare (except for nm baal runs) I found myself the main killer of the party I was questing with. For skills, continue the focus on nova, and occasionally tossing points into bone spear. Nova should get maxed in nm and then focus on bone spear. If you finish spear, then put 5 points into spirit and then focus on maxing bone wall. I suggest not moving onto hell until level 65-70.

Hell:
Now I was again surprised by my characters ability to kill with both nova and spear in act1 hell. Even through Act3 I was able to kill things at a decent pace (soloing). Act4 was possible to do, just a challenge. However When I hit act5, I moved on to baal runs so I do not know how well pvming act5 would go. But since the monsters are generally weaker than in act4 I am fairly confident that it should be possible. Continue maxing bone wall and once that is finished move on to prison unless you chose to use marrowwalk bug. In which case you would then max spirit or more poison synergies. If going for pvp level 85 is the immediate goal since that is fairly easily atained and gives you most of your synergies. Again level 94 is the level he is finished at (assuming you got all the skill quests).

A few notes about pvm. If you want to jsut do pvm then I suggest you put points into dim vision and confuse insteadof using a wand, they are invaluable. Also, remember that the best strategy is using bone wall to occupy the monsters, lower resist and cast nova, while poisoned shoot off spears and repeat till the first one dies. Then use Corpse Explosion to finish off the group. A godo mercenary is act2 holy freeze since slow monsters givesyou the time you need to kill the groups of monsters.

PvP:
This build was originally intended for pvp. My general dueling strategy is to cast lower resist and fight them long range with spears/spirits and when they get close use poison nova. I find that characters with low poison resist often die from a few novas before I even get a chance to use my bone spells. Also a benefit of not using marowwalks is the "giant horde of spirits/ trap with prison" tactic. Some find it cheap but since most use enigma anyways, it isnt as useful as it used to be. Also since I do not use enigma (I find teleport to be cheap) I make strong use of running patterns and use terrain (puddles/houses/etc) to avoid my enemies and their attacks.

Thanks for reading my first attempt at writing a guide. This character is very fun to play with and hopefully others will find that out.

I know that I need to flesh out both pvm and pvp strategies and include dueling strategies versus seperate classes/subclasses. I also plan on organizing the guide better. And I plan on adding more descriptions and alternate gear choices. I am just unable to do so at this time. So future versions will be more complete/better organized.

I welcome all thoughts/comments/concerns/flames/experiences that can help the build/guide.

TheKbob
18-06-2004, 23:18
Hmm, I would def for one use Marrows for a build like this, but that of course is a matter of preference, whether or not its a Bug or a Feature. We don't need to discuss this here.

3 points for a good golem... yes it increases to 97, but reaching 94 is a pain in itself. A good golem can be a life saver and w/ + skills, should reach a few thousand life.

The numbers for the rich setup are impressive but that is truelly a costly build to get 125% Cast. Not the worst in cost (look at some melee gear costs :cheesy: ) but a good +2/cast rare circlet and 10 charms is a real drainer. But I know expensive builds, wouldn't I?

Side note: I noticed the example of an ammy is very like Storm circlet :uhhuh: I used to use em too, but with only Commando left, it's a bit pointless I feel, for me.

It would be an interesting build to see how you compensate for Casters w/o Engima. You say fire spears when with my sorc I know I can easily dodge spears and drop a Blizz on your head out of range of a psn nova. You could use spirit, but I'm betting its not the biggest damage ( maybe 200 a hit? in pvp that is).

Will wait to see an expanded version.

~Kbob

steve2677
20-06-2004, 03:04
Hmm that's funny. I posted an idea about a poison/bone hybrid awhile ago and was shot down by alot of ppl, yet here it is >.<. Amazing.... well i know it works and it is fun. I'm glad to see a guide about it:D

P.S. I'd go with the 3 point golem investment, it really helped my necro through some tough spots in hell. I used 1 point into dim vision as well to just spam off screen and not get mobbed by multiple groups of archers etc. That REALLY helped.

Neways GL with the guide feedback.

gjcraig
20-06-2004, 03:18
Well alot of thought and for that I commend you the only thing I can say is what you have already aluded to - build is way to weak . - pvm or pvp

CEG
20-06-2004, 04:16
Hmm that's funny. I posted an idea about a poison/bone hybrid awhile ago and was shot down by alot of ppl, yet here it is >.<. Amazing.... well i know it works and it is fun. I'm glad to see a guide about it:D

P.S. I'd go with the 3 point golem investment, it really helped my necro through some tough spots in hell. I used 1 point into dim vision as well to just spam off screen and not get mobbed by multiple groups of archers etc. That REALLY helped.

Neways GL with the guide feedback.

Yea I also got shot down when I made a post about poison abd bone necros. But I decided to ignore them :P. Yea The usefulness of a golem and dim vision are invaluable in pvm. This was originally a pure pvp build which is why I ignored those. However I plan to expand on the pvm aspect and the merits of a few switch ups to skill placement in future versions.

Well alot of thought and for that I commend you the only thing I can say is what you have already aluded to - build is way to weak . - pvm or pvp

Really this build is not too weak. See that is what I am trying to point out. In pvm it is surprising how capable this character really is. And pvp is actually not that hard to win at with this build. I am lacking the strategies and proper descriptions/reasonings to illustrate my experiences and abilities of this build. This first version is just to present the idea and get feedback. I am definitely going to expand and add things in later versions. I am still experimenting and looking for feedback, when I get enough I will put up my second version.

Thanks for the feedback, and if you feel so inclined keep it coming.

Dimoak
20-06-2004, 04:22
My hybrid (I guess you can call it that, I just realized spirit/spear could still do fairly well without 7k damage and such) focused more on nova, simply because that was what it was supposed to be. My nova is up to 8k (-135 enemy resist) with only 1 pb gc, and my spear is 800 (Spirit 900), of course it's only mid 70s, so I'm expecting possibly 2k spear once I get a few poison charms and level to high 80s. I am using marrowwalk bug btw. IMO using a spell like prison on an enemy who can't tele is worse then getting some extra damage from a bug.
It's nice because it gives you another source to kill enemies with 1 life, you have another nova, fire golem, your thorns (I use bramble as you can tell from my damage, this only works if they're melee btw :lol: ), or bone spells. They're also nice if your opponent decides to stay out of your range, and yes, even 1k spirit can still do well in pvp.

CEG
20-06-2004, 05:29
My hybrid (I guess you can call it that, I just realized spirit/spear could still do fairly well without 7k damage and such) focused more on nova, simply because that was what it was supposed to be. My nova is up to 8k (-135 enemy resist) with only 1 pb gc, and my spear is 800 (Spirit 900), of course it's only mid 70s, so I'm expecting possibly 2k spear once I get a few poison charms and level to high 80s. I am using marrowwalk bug btw. IMO using a spell like prison on an enemy who can't tele is worse then getting some extra damage from a bug.
It's nice because it gives you another source to kill enemies with 1 life, you have another nova, fire golem, your thorns (I use bramble as you can tell from my damage, this only works if they're melee btw :lol: ), or bone spells. They're also nice if your opponent decides to stay out of your range, and yes, even 1k spirit can still do well in pvp.

Yeah I considered maxing poison damage and using bone spells as a backup. However I wanted to find a balance in between the 2 and be able to use either as a main skill. Also I disagree with your assessment of the bone prison tactic vs using a bug, but to each his own. Also I am glad that you too noticed the abilities of spear/spirit in pvp even with low damage. This is one of the things that I makes it work in pvp. Damage may be low but it is very workable and with 125% fcr it is very useful.

leddan
20-06-2004, 06:38
I use a build similar for this & it actually works quite well for rushing or for pvp. I do max psn nova & both of it's synergies. I did 1 pt in each skill of the summon trees (can do just 1 pt to gumby & no other golem if you choose). I also am using the marrowwalk bug (insert your flame for using a bug here :P) & then poured the remainder of my points into bone spirit and its synergies (besides bone prison to get the bug bonus). Granted this charachter could not be used in a GM tourney or friendly duel with the marrowwalks on, he still does very nice damage with my equipment setup & charms. I do between 7000-7500 poison nova damage over 2 seconds (not counting with LR on) & still put out 2k+ on spirit damage. I only use revives during the rush or to handle a open game juvenile.

WTF-WhoFarted
Weapon- Wizardspike with Psn Facet Jewel or Death's Web Wand. (CTA on switch)
Shield- 1.10 Trang's shield or Humonculous (Lidless on switch for + skill with cta)
Helm- Jah'd Shako
Gloves- 1.10 Trang's
Ammy- Mara's (Can use Storm circlet if you don't mind questionable items)
Rings- 2 sojs (also keep a raven & a dwarf in stash)
Belt- Tgods, Trang's or Arach
Boots- Marrowwalk's
Armor- Enigma
Charms- I have 7 p&b charms with 2nd mods. Have a fhr, anni & other life charms with 2nd mods.

Dimoak
20-06-2004, 18:33
Yeah I considered maxing poison damage and using bone spells as a backup. However I wanted to find a balance in between the 2 and be able to use either as a main skill. Also I disagree with your assessment of the bone prison tactic vs using a bug, but to each his own. Also I am glad that you too noticed the abilities of spear/spirit in pvp even with low damage. This is one of the things that I makes it work in pvp. Damage may be low but it is very workable and with 125% fcr it is very useful.
I don't want to turn this into a debate, but think about it. Is it really a duel if they can't move, dodge, or possibly even attack depending on their range? I for one would rather duel a nec using marrows then bone prison.

CEG
20-06-2004, 22:16
I don't want to turn this into a debate, but think about it. Is it really a duel if they can't move, dodge, or possibly even attack depending on their range? I for one would rather duel a nec using marrows then bone prison.

I would also rather duel a necro using marrows over one who uses prison :P. Its no different really than minion stacking and teleing onto someone. Anyways It is one tactic that can be used. You can choose to use it or you can choose not to. Its not as if it is necessary or critical to winning.

gvandale
22-06-2004, 16:44
good guide, i'm not a believer in the build itself, but a good guide nonetheless. i'd recommend fleshing out your 'pvp' section since you say this was intended for pvp, and your pvp section is like 3 lines long.

maybe some strategies as to how to avoid problems with certain classes. or how to get the upperhand against a caster while not using enigma.

just some thoughts.

g

CEG
22-06-2004, 19:37
good guide, i'm not a believer in the build itself, but a good guide nonetheless. i'd recommend fleshing out your 'pvp' section since you say this was intended for pvp, and your pvp section is like 3 lines long.

maybe some strategies as to how to avoid problems with certain classes. or how to get the upperhand against a caster while not using enigma.

just some thoughts.

g

Yeah, a fully fleshed out pvp section is one of the things to come in the next version. I will include a overall strategy/overview of pvp, A few notes on decisions (block vs vita, marrowwalks vs prison, etc), and descriptions of tactics versus each class/subclass. The reason I didn't include one was that I am not done tweaking my pvp strategy and strategies for various classes. So the pvp part will definitely be expanded. Just not yet.

gvandale
22-06-2004, 19:54
very cool. i know this isn't for pvm, but your pvm section is awesome.

gg

g

mirack
07-07-2004, 08:12
I just have a few questions I built this with your rich gear(broke my barb) I just used trang belt and homoculus cause I be non ladder. So first how much dex for the homoculus? Can I use poison charms or not? Should I use iron maiden when dueling at all?

CEG
07-07-2004, 09:32
I just have a few questions I built this with your rich gear(broke my barb) I just used trang belt and homoculus cause I be non ladder. So first how much dex for the homoculus? Can I use poison charms or not? Should I use iron maiden when dueling at all?

If you want to have max block with homunculus by level 85 I believe you need 192 in dexterity. Also I believe arachnids is on non-ladder as well (not sure). If it is I suggest you pick one up. Poison charms as in what? If you mean poison and bone then yes load up as many as you can. I have not used Iron Maiden in duels and I do not know how it would work. I will do some testing on it though. Also I am glad you took interest in this build. Let me know how things go for you and keep an eye out for my next version which is still in the works. If you have any more questions go ahead and ask.

mirack
07-07-2004, 18:07
Wow thats a lot of dex would if hurt if I didnt use that much? I mean psn charms by 100's and what not. Its stills a caster so those dont work right? Also arach is available I have about 3 of them but wanna try trangs belt I will try both and see which I prefer. So again really question can I skimp on the dex??

uncreativereally
07-07-2004, 18:11
Wow thats a lot of dex would if hurt if I didnt use that much? I mean psn charms by 100's and what not. Its stills a caster so those dont work right? Also arach is available I have about 3 of them but wanna try trangs belt I will try both and see which I prefer. So again really question can I skimp on the dex??
Just look what the guild says "Either none or enough for max block with Homunculus". No psn charms do not help.

mirack
08-07-2004, 06:46
Just wanted to add andy just dropped me a arm of king leoric wand, I find this to be a great tool for lvling any necro lots of +skills required lvl 36 so I use the summining on it to kill and help me lvl. What do you think I even actually recomend it as the poor build for this character.