TigerStrike/DragonTail vs. TigerStrike/DragonClaw

[Blue]

Someone please explain to me in plain english how the damage is calculated for these combinations. Ive heard that the TS/DT combo can create massive damage, but i never hear about TS/DC. With two claws, wouldnt that equal big damage? And, last question; is Dragon Tail strictly fire damage or not (worried about fireimmunes), i cant find a straight answer. plz lend a hand here :cheesy:

[xanth]

ts/dtail-the dmg done with dtail is multiplicative and does waaaaay more dmg than dc. also, when u release with dtail, u get the area of affect fire dmg whereas dc only attacks one enemy at once

ts/dc-the dmg is added, not multiplied so i doubt you will get anywhere close to the dmg u would for dtail

as for the physical immune/fire immune thing, im not 100% sure

[jrichard]

Okay, bear with me as it's been awhile since i looked at the damage equation for DC, but i think it goes like this:

Your base claw damage is modified by your strength and dex. The enhanced damage from claw mastery, TS, and DC are then added and applied to the damage gotten from the first part of the equation (the str/dex modification). All the damage is done to the single target you hit with DC. Also, TS's enhanced damage will only be applied to the first claw that hits. I.e. a single DC attack includes strikes from both claws. If the first claw hits, TS will only be applied to that hit. If the first claw misses and the second claw hits, the TS bonus will be applied to the hit by the second claw.

Dtail is a little more complicated. :)
Here's the kick damage equation from the kicking basics sticky minus the off weapon ED, aura ED etc. I've just included the bonus from the skills to make it a little easier to understand.

Kick Damage Equation

MinDamage= (str + dex - 20) / 4 * (100 + skill_bonus) / 100 + BootMinDam * (100 + (str * StrBonus / 100) + skill_bonus) / 100

MaxDamage=(str + dex - 20) / 3 * (100 + skill_bonus) / 100 + BootMaxDam * (100 + (str * StrBonus / 100) + skill_bonus) / 100

TS's ED bonus would fit into this equation in the skill_bonus slot. Dtail's ED isn't a part of this equation. So, run your str, dex, the damage from whatever boots your are using (see the kicking sticky for a list of boots and their damage if you need to), and the ED bonus from TS. This gives you the actual physical damage done by you kick. Dtail bases it's damage off of this number. Take the physical damage done by the kick and multiply it by (100 + Dtail_bonus)/100. This gives you the damage dtail does in its area of effect (4 yards). This damage is applied as fire damage and won't affect fire immunes. The damage done in the area of effect will affect the target you released dtail on, so that single monster will take both the physical and fire damage. Everything else will only be affected by the fire damage. Lastly, and most importantly, Dtail's damage, as i stated, is based off of the physical kick damage done. So, if you release dtail on a physical immune monster, there will be no physical damage done and thus no fire damage either.

Comparing the two is really hard as they are basing their final damage off of different sources. TS/Dtail will show far more damage on the character screen than TS/DC will, but most of that damage for dtail will be fire whereas all of the TS/DC damage will be physical. Dtail will affect an area, DC will only affect a single target. The two setups are too different to really compare.

That's about as plain as i think i can put this. :)

jrichard

[Duncan Idaho]

Moreover, if you make calculations, you'll find that TS + DC will do only 5-15% more damage per frame (which is what is important) than DC alone (it depends on the slvls, the idea is that the higher the slvls, the bigger the difference. 15% roughly corresponds to slvl 30 CM, TS, DC).

This is without speaking of the AR difference, which is clearly on DC's side (up to 15% chance to hit more frequently with DC than with TS). As you can understand it, the chance to hit with only DC compensate the dmg difference. So that's why when using DC, TS is not worth investing 20 skills points.

[Blue]

thank you for the very helpful explanation, i think i understand it now :clap:

[BruntFCA]

You say that DC only applies charge up to First TC attack? The help screen popup in the game, clearly says. DC applies the charge up to to BOTH attacks. I thought that was the whole point of DC? Also you are contradicting Xanth who also seems to think that it twice "addative". Where are you getting your information that no charge up is applied to second claw?

Cheers

B

[jrichard]

You say that DC only applies charge up to First TC attack? The help screen popup in the game, clearly says. DC applies the charge up to to BOTH attacks. I thought that was the whole point of DC? Also you are contradicting Xanth who also seems to think that it twice "addative". Where are you getting your information that no charge up is applied to second claw?

Cheers

B

This has been tested, heavily, in both 1.09 and 1.10. The skill description is wrong and always has been. Also, when xanth mentioned the damage was additive, that means that the ED from TS and DC are added together, not that TS gets added to both DC hits.

jrichard

[Salo]

how much fire and how much physical damage on the single monster?

what % is it half the listed?

[jrichard]

The base kick damage calculated with the kick damage equation is the only physical damage done by Dtail. Everything else is fire damage. As far as how much in a % value, that would depend on the level of Dtail.

jrichard

[Salo]

The base kick damage calculated with the kick damage equation is the only physical damage done by Dtail. Everything else is fire damage. As far as how much in a % value, that would depend on the level of Dtail.

jrichard


how much is base kick damage normally? doesnt sound that big.

so what about a dtalon/dtail build?

i duno why i never hear about his.