Pistons V Lakers:Lets hear the excuses

[probo24]

Just wanted to give all the fake, plastic, frontrunning, bandwagon hanging, kneepad wearing Laker fans a place to list all the excuses on why the hall of fame laiden LA Clippers....I mean Lakers, look like every other team the Pistons have rolled in this years playoffs.
We all know it CAN'T be because of:
The Wallace brothers
Detroits backcourt
Detroits rebounding on both ends
Detroits defence (can you say fg%)
Detroits coaching staff (hit the bong one more time Phil)
The arrogance of the "3 of the last 4 championships" Lakers
The Scoring magic of Gary "the slug" Payton and Karl "The snailman" Malone
2-vs-5 basketball
Detroits bench
Detroits hunger
Detroits energy and hustle
Detroits inability to score against the vaunted LA defence

While it's true the series is still only 3-0 *COUGH* 2-1 with the next two games in Detroit, i'm looking for someone to tell me why, and or how, the Lakers can match the Pistons hunger, and at least get the series back to LA. The only thing better than seeing the Pistons win the title in Detroit would be to see them win it in LA.
4 words for those of you that thought all the hall of fame Lakers had to do was show up to collect their 4th title in 5 years...

The Detroit Red Wings

[Cain]

Basketball sucks so who cares?
poison poison poison poison dagger daggger dagqer daggar

EDIT: Sorry, I woke up on the wrong side of the bed. But basketball still sucks.

[skihard]

This was the first time in something like 586 games that the Lakers have been held below 70 points in a game and is the lowest score since the indroduction of the shot clock. The second lowest point total in the playoffs for the Lakers was 75 points in let me see.......oh, game 1 of this series. And still if you look at ESPN.com and what you see is not that the Pistons are doing good but that the lakers are doing bad.........I would think after very nearly being down 3 games to none the Sports Weinies would give the Pistons credit for something.

oh and on a side note.....ABC showed many local (to Detroit and the World) celebraties including, Eminem, Steve Yzerman, Kid Rock, Rene Zelwiger (sp?), Barry Sanders and not a single one had a hat or T-shirt advertising their show or career. Yet when we saw the celebs in L.A. we see Jim Bulishi wearing an "According to Jim" hat, the Disney CEO was wearing a Micky Mouse T-shirt, Adam Sandler was wearing a shirt with his new movie on it, these are just a few. I think I counted over 15 or so of stars they showed Advertising at the game, and I wonder just how self absorbed does one have to be, really?


Basketball doesn't suck it's just not as good as Hockey

[AeroJonesy]

Yeah, it's about time we see Detroit get some credit. They definitely outplayed the Lakers last night. And their defense was amazing. Maybe it's that the sportswriters were all talking about a Laker championship when they picked up Malone and Payton. Now the feel the need to defend themselves because it looks like they might be wrong.

[giantpinkbunnyhead]

My brother insists the Lakers lost game 3 was because the refs were paid off. Consider how many fouls the Lakers got for barely touching the Detroit guys, then consider how few fouls Detroit got despite that fact that they were slamming and elbowing the Lakers all night long. The foul count was like 25-10 by 3rd quarter...

I don't know enough about basketball to know any better, but I do know the Pistons SHOULD have been caught fouling a hell of a lot more than they were.

[Ev_]

Did anyone else see that little girl holding the sign that read, "Chauncey makes Payton's pride hurt even more than Malone's knee"? LOL! What a cruel little girl...

Go Pistons.

[jimmyboy]

Just wanted to give all the fake, plastic, frontrunning, bandwagon hanging, kneepad wearing Laker fans a place to list all the excuses on why the hall of fame laiden LA Clippers....I mean Lakers, look like every other team the Pistons have rolled in this years playoffs.
We all know it CAN'T be because of:
The Wallace brothers
Detroits backcourt
Detroits rebounding on both ends
Detroits defence (can you say fg%)
Detroits coaching staff (hit the bong one more time Phil)
The arrogance of the "3 of the last 4 championships" Lakers
The Scoring magic of Gary "the slug" Payton and Karl "The snailman" Malone
2-vs-5 basketball
Detroits bench
Detroits hunger
Detroits energy and hustle
Detroits inability to score against the vaunted LA defence

While it's true the series is still only 3-0 *COUGH* 2-1 with the next two games in Detroit, i'm looking for someone to tell me why, and or how, the Lakers can match the Pistons hunger, and at least get the series back to LA. The only thing better than seeing the Pistons win the title in Detroit would be to see them win it in LA.
4 words for those of you that thought all the hall of fame Lakers had to do was show up to collect their 4th title in 5 years...

The Detroit Red Wings

Pistons won yesterday because they were a better team.

Nothing worst than a Laker bandwagon cheerleader except an ... anti-Laker bandwagon cheerleader whos real home team took a vacation weeks ago. Or worst, a rookie cheerleader who thinks that the series is over because they haven't been been to the Championship round in over a decade.

Wake-up, smell the coffee, it's best of seven. Gloat when your team won 4 (if it's really your home team).

[Raft Boy]

Because I griped about the Lakers/Wolves series missing Cassell, to be fair, how would the Lakers do with a healthy Malone? Watching the post-game analysis, the guys were saying something that this was how the Lakers were playing when he was out earlier in the season. Would they have won? Doubtful, but the score would have been closer, that's for sure.

As far as the foul situation, the Pistons drove to the basket, got contact, and got the foul calls. The Lakers were shooting jumpers. Being a Wolves fan, I know that if you take a huge number of jump shots, you're not going to get any calls your way.

Look at the points in the paint: Pistons got 38 and the Lakers got 26. Rebounds went to the Pistons 51 to 39. Pistons played intense, physical basketball. Lakers didn't.

Go Pistons go!

Gah, I was partly defending the Lakers. I need to shower now.

*shivers*

-Rafty

[thejdawg2]

My brother insists the Lakers lost game 3 was because the refs were paid off. Consider how many fouls the Lakers got for barely touching the Detroit guys, then consider how few fouls Detroit got despite that fact that they were slamming and elbowing the Lakers all night long. The foul count was like 25-10 by 3rd quarter...

I don't know enough about basketball to know any better, but I do know the Pistons SHOULD have been caught fouling a hell of a lot more than they were.
So should the Lakers, what's your point? Ever seen Shaq play offense? It involves him going through the defender.

Ever see Gary Payton play defense the last 2 years? It involves him holding you on one side with his arm.

Ever see Kobe drive? 3.5 steps, minimum.


To have a Lakers fan criticize the refs is laughable. I have never seen a team get more games called in favor, especially when a series is on the line.


The Lakers lost because they were outplayed. Luke Walton, who provided a huge spark in game 2, was matched up against eithe Rip Hamilton, an experienced scorer. Or Corliss Williamson, an experienced post player who dwarfs Walton. 3 fouls in 5 and a half minutes because he couldn't control either.

Offensive rebounding was 15-7, in favor of Detroit. The Lakers had...I think it was 4 second chance points. While the Pistons had somewhere in the 20s. The Lakers had 5 more turnovers. How is that the refs fault? That's hustle, something the Lakers sorely need.

[jimmyboy]

Because I griped about the Lakers/Wolves series missing Cassell, to be fair, how would the Lakers do with a healthy Malone? Watching the post-game analysis, the guys were saying something that this was how the Lakers were playing when he was out earlier in the season. Would they have won? Doubtful, but the score would have been closer, that's for sure.

As far as the foul situation, the Pistons drove to the basket, got contact, and got the foul calls. The Lakers were shooting jumpers. Being a Wolves fan, I know that if you take a huge number of jump shots, you're not going to get any calls your way.

Look at the points in the paint: Pistons got 38 and the Lakers got 26. Rebounds went to the Pistons 51 to 39. Pistons played intense, physical basketball. Lakers didn't.

Go Pistons go!

Gah, I was partly defending the Lakers. I need to shower now.

*shivers*

-Rafty

My apologies. My insult to probo is strictly limited to probo for being such a little troll, and I just wanted to cover all the bases whether he's from Detroit of not. Probo, if you're reading this, add some more trolling so I could twist your words around.

As for defending the Lakers, well... they did originate from Minnesota, so blame it on genetics.

As for Malone. I'm not sure that was the reason they lost. Rasheed failed to take advantage scoring for 6 points (I think)? Larry just made great adjustment and Phil failed to anticipate Larry's adjustments. Prince is back on Kobe. etc. Larry even calls time when the Pistons get a lead on a running game just to slow it down. I wish Phil would get a little more hands on. As you can guess, I am pointing the finger at Phil Jackson more than any othe reasons for the lost.

[Raft Boy]

My apologies.
I don't see why you need to. My post wasn't directed at you. It just happened to come right after yours. ;) I was just bringing up the injury defense, since I've used it once or twice. :whistle:


As for defending the Lakers, well... they did originate from Minnesota, so blame it on genetics.
Ugh, don't remind me. I've got friends that like the Lakers because of that. Sorry, but that was way before our (mine and my friends) time. None of us actually saw the Minneapolis Lakers play, so I get the feeling it's just bandwagon jumping on their part. Wolves fan tried and true right here.


As for Malone. I'm not sure that was the reason they lost. Rasheed failed to take advantage scoring for 6 points (I think)?
Well, Rasheed was also in foul trouble and missed (if I remember it right) all of the second quarter. If it wasn't for that, I'm pretty sure he would have padded his stats a bit more. So maybe it was a wash.

Either way, this is shaping up to be a good series. Well, maybe not for you. :p

-Rafty

[liquidicem]

Gah, I was partly defending the Lakers. I need to shower now.
*Kicks rafty in the shin*

I'm not a pistons fan but I would liek to see the lakers loose due to the fact that they eliminated by T-wolves.

[DurfBarian]

The Lakers lost because Shaq was preoccupied thinking about the G8 leaders' statement.

[Ter]

answer this if you are a pistons fan..
have you enjoyed watching the games your team has been playing?

IS this series an indication of them playing well?

I've seen both teams miss a ton of open shots...
I've seen the pistons have the fouls differential as +15 and still ***** about being called for a hold
I've seen the lakers play lazy sloppy basketball and seen the pistons play just ugly uninspired basketball...

39-32 for a first half score? both teams should be ashamed of that.

The lakers deserved to lose both games they've lost and the pistons deserved to lose game 2 despite the Lakers best efforts to give it away.

Bad shooting, clutching grabbing and holding, uneven refereeing on both sides, lazy, sloppy, play and a severe lack of anything remotely entertaining has left me not caring who wins the series since no team who plays like I've seen in the last three games deserves to be a champion.

That said...I'd rather see the Lakers win because if the pistons take it...the rest of the league will turn into what we've seen in this series and it will Kill the NBA. Who wants to watch a regular season full of 62-58 games?

[cougar]

I would. Basketball isn't all about scoring, unlike what the NBA would want you to think. Ever watch high school and college basketball? The games are in the 50's sometimes and it's VERY ENTERTAINING basketball.

The NBA is already dying imo, it has been for awhile.

[Freemason]

The Lakers lost because they were proccupied with ideas of how to get some from Kobe's accuser

[thejdawg2]

I like defense. I like watching the Pistons play. I like watching swarming defenses cause mistakes.

Most importantly, I like playing games myself where defense is involved. I like knowing that there is actual competition between the teams, rather than standing around and seeing who is a better shooter. I like having to rebound, especially on the offensive glass. I like double teaming, which leads to fastbreaks and easy points. I like playing the passing lanes, and punishing players for being lazy. I like watching guys who can shoot the lights out score no more than a single basket because they don't know the best way to beat a double team is to PASS the ball.

It's called fundamentals. It's where the game starts and ends. You cannot be flashy without knowing fundamentals. You cannot win games if you only try to be flashy, and don't do the things that you're supposed to do above all else: play defense, rebound, and not turn the ball over. The Lakers did none of that, and that's why they deserved lose.

If you don't like defense, then you really shouldn't be watching sports.

[Ter]

I would. Basketball isn't all about scoring, unlike what the NBA would want you to think. Ever watch high school and college basketball? The games are in the 50's sometimes and it's VERY ENTERTAINING basketball.

The NBA is already dying imo, it has been for awhile.

Yes I have watched College baskeball...and I was very entertained watching my LMU Lions Beat defending champion Michigan 149 - 115
I was in college there at the time and watched my team average 120+ points per game

THAT Was entertaining basketball if you ask me...
I've never seen a single high school game worth watching.

and btw watching my team score in the 70's and beat alabma was painful even if they did win and eliminate WImp and company :P

I'm not saying it is all about scoring...I just hate watching teams miss open shots...force up bad shots in traffic instead of passing, and resort to holding and blocking (the foul not the other type) to keep the game slow and ugly

[cougar]

People (uneducated about the game i might add) just want to watch a 3 hour dunkathon. It's sad really, but it's almost what the NBA has come to. Ya got guys walkin up and down the courts... playing lazy defense, taking 5 steps to the hoop etc.

I get sick of hearing the "LOTS OF POINTS MEANS FUN LOL!!!11" attitude. 800 point doesn't mean good basketball... in fact, i'd argue it means much worse basketball.

[Ter]

I'm not suggesting that it should be all about the points...

I'm saying I want to see movement...hustle, passing and good outside shooting.
you know like the Lakers and Celtics played in the early/mid 80's?

I don't like the grind it out slow down game full of free throws, fouls, and rebounds because no one makes a shot..

low scoring doesn't make it better just like high scoring doesn't make it better...

good basketball is easy to watch and this series isn't

[thejdawg2]

Then why do you dislike the Pistons style of play so much? They are the ones who have more hustle, better passing, and better outside shooting, set up by offensive rebounds and the pick and roll.

[Ter]

I dislike thier style because of three reasons..

1, slow games encourage less athletic and less talented teams.
2, being better than the lakers in this series isn't the same as being good at any of the skills you mentioned (though I do admire their hustle and the way they crash the offensive glass
3, I dislike the concept that the kind of defense they are playing is actually good defense...they are holding, pushing, blocking, nudging etc..like you see in the NHL and it is exactly that sort of defense that prevents hockey from being an interesting tv sport.
(I'm not crying about the lack of fouls called because the Lakers could theoretically have played the same sort of physical Defense I'm just saying that the "defense" in the game last night would have sent the lakers to the line for freethrows 50 times if it had been a regular season game)

I know things are always more physical in the finals and that you have to get used to it..but I hated watching it the last time the Pistons were in the finals and I haven't started liking it yet.

I like watching the game move and flow and I like seeing athletes excel...
I don't like watching a bunch of big slow immobile behemoths push and grab under the basket (this would explain why I don't like college Basketball on the East coast, why I don't like the NBA in the eastern Conference...and am bored by the games in this finals)

as I said..The pistons deserve to win if they continue to out hustle the lakers...but you can't convince me that it is good for the game to force ugly slow tedious basketball on the public.

Good teams who shoot well, pass and hustle don't score 39 points in a half

[xXxjayxXx]

if you ask me the lakers are overrated. who do they have? shaq, kobe, rush.... ummm seems about it. shaq is almost unstopable thats for sure. but if u trap him or triple team him hes gotta force his shots and then more then likely misses them, or pass it for a low % shot. kobe is a POS. he's one of the best but his attitude sucks. in game three detroit got in his head bad. every shot was challenged. detroits defense is too much for the lakers, sense the lakers dont seem to like to play defense, which makes detroits offense seems unreal. oh almost forgot about kobes ego. lmao, the guy pouts when he doesnt get the ball. and then gets pissed and that throws him off his game. if i was a lakers fan i would be completely imbarassed to say so :lol: . but hey, no one can beat the lakers right.....?

[SelfBaisResistor]

Because I griped about the Lakers/Wolves series missing Cassell, to be fair, how would the Lakers do with a healthy Malone?

Yeah it sucked here with out Admiral Ackbar, I mean Sam Cassell here in Milwuakee.

I agree with Cain, I don't really give a rat's behind about basketball, especially the playoffs. They've been going on since what April now and they're still not over and won't be until mid June. You could fit nearly half an NFL season in that time.

[xXxjayxXx]

Good teams who shoot well, pass and hustle don't score 39 points in a half

no they dont. they score 32.

[DemBonez]

I dislike the Pistons style because their defense really should be fouls. The refs are really lax about that kind of stuff now, if the person doesn't miss the shot by 8 feet there is no foul. It's not just the Pistons, it's the whole league. I much prefer when a player isn't being pushed off the ball, or being pushed around on a rebound, etc. This goes for both offense and defense. I am tired of seeing people play to get the foul rather than the points.

As for the original question at hand, I don't believe a team has ever won all 3 home games in a series, or something like 27 out of 31 haven't (damn TV stats). Lakers are still in it, afterall they are only down 1 game.

[thejdawg2]

I can't believe people are saying the Pistons are favored by the refs.

Have you not watched a Lakers playoff game in the last 5 years?

[SelfBaisResistor]

I can't believe people are saying the Pistons are favored by the refs.

Have you not watched a Lakers playoff game in the last 5 years?

Yet another reason why I don't like basketball.

[Ter]

no they dont. they score 32.

NO one ever accused the lakers of hustling....

btw my comments about the refereeing had nothing to do with them being biased one way or the other...it was about the inconsistency there are charges/blocks where both guys go to the ground and nothing is called...and then a little slap on the wrist at midcourt that doesn't even interrupt the dribble is whistled...

Show some consistency, call the fouls that slow down the game and let them play otherwise.

The only difference in the series so far is that Detroit wants to win more and is going after the loose balls...

if the Lakers win the next game and even it at 2-2 it will be interesting to hear what everyone has to say. After splitting the first two...the only results we could have here are Lakers 2-1 or Pistons 2-1... it is going to take at least 5 or 6 games to end the series from here so we'll see what happens

[thejdawg2]

I think the refs are being consistent. They are allowing hard, in your face defense, while not allowing swipes at the ball which catch someone.

Example, a player is right up on the ball handler, but is using his body to stay between the basket and the player their defending. That has been allowed. What hasn't been allowed is backing up and swiping at the ball and hitting arms and wrists.

This favors the Pistons style of play because they put two men on the ball, forcing bad passes and disruption of rhythym. The Lakers aren't taking the same approach. And instead of getting their bodies on the players they are defending, they're doing more swiping at the ball, which will lead to more fouls.

Why do you think Rasheed gets into so much foul trouble while Tayshaun Prince isn't? Rasheed swipes, and Tayshaun keeps his body between Kobe and the basket while challenging shots by putting his hand in Kobe's sight range rather than swiping at the ball.

[Ter]

I'll concede that point..they are calling the reach in fouls while letting the clear blocking fouls go as long as the defender keeps his hands down.

Which does favor the Pistons by a lot since that is the way they play all season. Rasheed is probably having trouble because he is still playing the way he did with the trailblazers...there is a lot less "body up" defense in the western conference.

[thejdawg2]

I encourage the way they are calling things, especially considering the way Shaq plays offense. For once, they are letting both sides of the ball play physical, instead of calling defensive fouls when Shaq lowers his shoulder and knocks the defender 2 feet back and then dunking it.


I guess we'll just have to see how Phil adjusts to having a team outplay his. I hope he knows how to coach, because up to this point in his career (and that's including his stint in Chicago), I haven't seen it.

[sawse]

[QUOTE=DemBonez]I dislike the Pistons style because their defense really should be fouls. The refs are really lax about that kind of stuff now, if the person doesn't miss the shot by 8 feet there is no foul. It's not just the Pistons, it's the whole league. I much prefer when a player isn't being pushed off the ball, or being pushed around on a rebound, etc. This goes for both offense and defense. I am tired of seeing people play to get the foul rather than the points.

QUOTE]

I would argue that the more intense a team's defensive effort is, the less likely a given play will be called a foul. This is a part of why the NBA is such a game of runs (whether in minutes or weeks even). In addition, a player's reputation as a fierce defender also affects what they get called for. Referees are humans, and it's all about judgement calls.

As far as officiating being different now, I can partially agree. The league concedes that rule changes and officiating guidlines recently are geared towards an offensive flow. However, what gets called has always been biased towards the intense defenders. As an example think of the Bulls of the early 90s. Remember their intimidating full and 3/4 court presses? Poor Clyde :( How about the Knicks from that period, or the Pistons that bouned MJ early on?

I think it's basicly impossible to call a game completely objectivly. Someday we'll have a computerized reffing system that evaluates contact, force, movement etc. and a foul will be a foul. I would love that too, but I also enjoy the ebb and flow of a game, as players or teams get on a roll (on O or D). I think it accentuates the excitment. Perhapse it's artificial or exagerated, but personally I enjoy it.

As far as what kind of game I like to watch,... for me it boils down to holding my interest. Lots of things can do that.

Consider this:

Your favorite team is playing their big rival and the opponant misses some easy shots. Do you think "Damn, I wish those buggers had hit more shots"?

All other things being equal, shooting % never remains constant. So you may as well learn to appreciate off nights.



As an aside: Yes I agree that Kobe and Shaq are tremendous players, an no I don't know them personally, but I have always rooted against them because I don't care for their personalities. I have been thinking the Pistons would come out of the east since March or so, but I really figured that Minisota or my precious Spurs would banish the arrogant ones. Sigh, was I ever off on that one :scratch:

[probo24]

Pistons won yesterday because they were a better team.

Nothing worst than a Laker bandwagon cheerleader except an ... anti-Laker bandwagon cheerleader whos real home team took a vacation weeks ago. Or worst, a rookie cheerleader who thinks that the series is over because they haven't been been to the Championship round in over a decade.

Wake-up, smell the coffee, it's best of seven. Gloat when your team won 4 (if it's really your home team).
Detroit born and raised. Trust me, the series is over, it was over before it started. Mark my words

[Ting]

Yes Probo, Laker fans are all fake, plastic, bandwagon-hanging frontrunners. Let me guess, you're the type of teen that listens to Nirvana and cries yourself to sleep?

What's wrong with liking the Lakers?

Kobe Bryant's one of the most exciting players around to watch. When the Lakers were down 20, he still believed he could pull out with a victory, and played accordingly.

The Lakers won't match the Piston's hunger, but they have to do better than what they are now. Payton looks like the Payton of '96 but he ain't the Payton of '96. Malone's never been that great, the Utah Jazz of '97 and '98 were vastly overrated.

Also, the Lakers have to stop playing like a 16 year old streetball team. How often do you see someone who isn't named Kobe Bryant moving without the ball? They often just stand around and watch one guy work, which usually is either Kobe or Shaq.

As one Detroit fan's sign said, "I see Shaq and Kobe, but where are the Lakers?"

[probo24]

My apologies. My insult to probo is strictly limited to probo for being such a little troll, and I just wanted to cover all the bases whether he's from Detroit of not. Probo, if you're reading this, add some more trolling so I could twist your words around.

As for defending the Lakers, well... they did originate from Minnesota, so blame it on genetics.

As for Malone. I'm not sure that was the reason they lost. Rasheed failed to take advantage scoring for 6 points (I think)? Larry just made great adjustment and Phil failed to anticipate Larry's adjustments. Prince is back on Kobe. etc. Larry even calls time when the Pistons get a lead on a running game just to slow it down. I wish Phil would get a little more hands on. As you can guess, I am pointing the finger at Phil Jackson more than any othe reasons for the lost.
Point the finger anywhere you want. I haven't seen Philip make or miss one shot the whole series. This guys not a coach, hes a carpetbagger who made his name off 3 of the best players to ever play the game. He's being exposed in the series, here's an idea Phil, why not cry about the refs just like you always do when you're facing a better TEAM. HEY GARY LOOK OUT!!! Here comes another pick and roll

[probo24]

answer this if you are a pistons fan..
have you enjoyed watching the games your team has been playing?

IS this series an indication of them playing well?

I've seen both teams miss a ton of open shots...
I've seen the pistons have the fouls differential as +15 and still ***** about being called for a hold
I've seen the lakers play lazy sloppy basketball and seen the pistons play just ugly uninspired basketball...

39-32 for a first half score? both teams should be ashamed of that.

The lakers deserved to lose both games they've lost and the pistons deserved to lose game 2 despite the Lakers best efforts to give it away.

Bad shooting, clutching grabbing and holding, uneven refereeing on both sides, lazy, sloppy, play and a severe lack of anything remotely entertaining has left me not caring who wins the series since no team who plays like I've seen in the last three games deserves to be a champion.

That said...I'd rather see the Lakers win because if the pistons take it...the rest of the league will turn into what we've seen in this series and it will Kill the NBA. Who wants to watch a regular season full of 62-58 games?
Hey buddy SCOREBOARD
You dont get extra points for winning pretty aka not playing defence, if you watched any of the eastern conf. playoffs you'd know it's great defence more than lack of great scoring. But tell me this then, Look up the Lakers shooting % throughout the western playoffs, i think youll be surprised.
Sorry if tough basketball isn't to your liking go watch tennis or something.
We in the D come to work, not to be pretty. The Lakers are learning that lesson all too well

[Raft Boy]

shaq, kobe, rush....
Sorry, but one unrealistic game does NOT make a player. If Rush plays on a consistant basis like he did in Game 6 of the Wolves series, then you can lump him in with Shaq and Kobe. Until then, he's just another (below average) player in the NBA.


When the Lakers were down 20, he still believed he could pull out with a victory, and played accordingly.
Noticed that you said 'he', and not 'they'? Last time I checked, there were 4 other guys on the floor with him.

-Rafty

[Ting]

Hey buddy SCOREBOARD
You dont get extra points for winning pretty aka not playing defence, if you watched any of the eastern conf. playoffs you'd know it's great defence more than lack of great scoring. But tell me this then, Look up the Lakers shooting % throughout the western playoffs, i think youll be surprised.
Sorry if tough basketball isn't to your liking go watch tennis or something.
We in the D come to work, not to be pretty. The Lakers are learning that lesson all too well

The NBA is a business. Its sole purpose is to entertain. If certain teams achieve that by winning, then so be it. However, scoring to win games seems to be more popular than defending to win games when it comes to fans.

So tennis is soft eh?

The average ATP tennis player is as much of an athlete as the average NBA player. Hello Bradley's, Traylor's, Madsen's, Ostertag's, Longley's, or slow big men who bring the NBA down.

I would love to watch a league full of just guards and agile forwards, it would be a lot more fun watching them battle it out instead of these slow-moving bulks.

[probo24]

I think the refs are being consistent. They are allowing hard, in your face defense, while not allowing swipes at the ball which catch someone.

Example, a player is right up on the ball handler, but is using his body to stay between the basket and the player their defending. That has been allowed. What hasn't been allowed is backing up and swiping at the ball and hitting arms and wrists.

This favors the Pistons style of play because they put two men on the ball, forcing bad passes and disruption of rhythym. The Lakers aren't taking the same approach. And instead of getting their bodies on the players they are defending, they're doing more swiping at the ball, which will lead to more fouls.

Why do you think Rasheed gets into so much foul trouble while Tayshaun Prince isn't? Rasheed swipes, and Tayshaun keeps his body between Kobe and the basket while challenging shots by putting his hand in Kobe's sight range rather than swiping at the ball.
Agreed, Same with how Shaq catches the ball 12 feet from the basket and backs that fat *** (along with the defender) inside 2 feet for the jam.
As Phil Jackson said, the Pistons are the aggressors, the Lakers are reacting, and slowly i might add, thus the fouls..

[Ting]

Noticed that you said 'he', and not 'they'? Last time I checked, there were 4 other guys on the floor with him.

-Rafty

Last time I checked, to like Kobe Bryant you don't have to like the 4 other guys on the floor with him.

I cringe whenever Malone touches the ball, or whoever is being defended by Payton gets the ball.

[probo24]

Yes Probo, Laker fans are all fake, plastic, bandwagon-hanging frontrunners. Let me guess, you're the type of teen that listens to Nirvana and cries yourself to sleep?

What's wrong with liking the Lakers?

Ouch, nice dig. Must of touched a nerve there. Actually (now take off your shoes and socks for this one) I was born in Detroit the same year the Tigers won the World Series back in 1968.(Thats 35 yrs old, don't hurt yourself trying to count that high) Had season tickets for the Tigers, Wings (until they priced me out of Joe Louis in 1998), Lions, and Pistons.
Kobe and Shaqs careers speek for themselves. Payton, very borderline hall of fame career. Malone, I actually really like him, too bad he's hurt. No shame in never winning a ring, he's hall of fame bound even without it.

Almost forgot, Nirvana??? LOL Too bad that drugged out loser couldn't stay straight enough to first, off that pig of a wife of his before he killed himself. The day he shot himself is the day the music scene got a whole lot brighter.
One less no talent 3 bar cord garage band is never a bad thing

[thejdawg2]

Also, the Lakers have to stop playing like a 16 year old streetball team. How often do you see someone who isn't named Kobe Bryant moving without the ball? They often just stand around and watch one guy work, which usually is either Kobe or Shaq.
You ever wonder why they don't move?

See: regular season. See: the playoffs.

I heard the insult. Kobe Bryant is like a kidney stone. He just won't pass.

He's a black hole. Ball goes in, doesn't come out. They are used to standing around, because Kobe makes sure any movement they make results in nothing more than wasted effort.



And c'mon now. No need for insults. This used to be a thread about basketball you know.

[Ting]

You ever wonder why they don't move?

See: regular season. See: the playoffs.

I heard the insult. Kobe Bryant is like a kidney stone. He just won't pass.

He's a black hole. Ball goes in, doesn't come out. They are used to standing around, because Kobe makes sure any movement they make results in nothing more than wasted effort.



And c'mon now. No need for insults. This used to be a thread about basketball you know.

jdawg, even if Kobe doesn't move the ball as much as he should, his teammates should at least make the effort to make themselves available. It certainly isn't helping them :uhhuh:

[Ter]

Hey buddy SCOREBOARD
You dont get extra points for winning pretty aka not playing defence, if you watched any of the eastern conf. playoffs you'd know it's great defence more than lack of great scoring. But tell me this then, Look up the Lakers shooting % throughout the western playoffs, i think youll be surprised.
Sorry if tough basketball isn't to your liking go watch tennis or something.
We in the D come to work, not to be pretty. The Lakers are learning that lesson all too well

Scoreboard...ouch I'm so wounded after I already mentioned more than once that your team deserves to be leading the series...

btw being up 2-1 and calling scoreboard yet attacking Phil Jackson and his 9 championships?!? huh? Do you even listen to yourself?

I can't really blame you for being so antagonistic though after hearing you are a lifetime Detroit resident and sports fan...I think if I had to watch the pistons, Lions and Tigers for the last 30+ years I'd be pretty depressed as well and ready to trash talk anyone on the rare occasion that my team got ahead in a series (of course if you are a hockey fan I suppose you'd have some reason to be pleased about your team affiliation but Hockey isn't really a major sport if Cosby show Reruns can out rate the NHL finals)

Call it great defense all you want but you aren't going to convince me. I watched the game...I saw the missed shots by both teams when they were uncontested including layups and dunk attempts...

I didn't watch any of the Eastern Conference matchups because like this series...unless you root for one of the teams...it is slow boring and painful to the point of being unwatchable. Basketball isn't about jamming up the middle, wrestling underneath and forcing your way to the basket or Shaq would be your Ideal player...

He walks, charges and forces up bad shots hoping to get bailed out by calls all the time...but he also gets fouled on nearly every possession either by having a defender extend their arms to gain leverage or by having them grab his jersey to try to keep him from moving. I think he'd be a perfect center for the Nicks but he certainly doesn't fit the Laker offense I'd like to see.

You can't have it both ways....either you like big slow aggressive physical play or you don't...but liking it when your team does it and *****ing about Shaq doing it is just naive homerism.



note: this is intended to be a friendly debate from my perpective I'm just giving you a hard time all in jest...I'm not trying to attack you personally we just happen to like the other side in this series

[thejdawg2]

jdawg, even if Kobe doesn't move the ball as much as he should, his teammates should at least make the effort to make themselves available. It certainly isn't helping them :uhhuh:It's as much his fault that they don't move as it is theirs.

Basketball is a team game. The minute Kobe becomes a team player, then his teammates will too.

Hell, even when he passes now, it's only because he has no choice, not because he wants to.

[thejdawg2]

Ter, Shaq isn't agressive offense or defensively, he's just physical. He doesn't attack anyone on defense, nor does his struggle to get open on offense consist of anything more than pushing his defender. Agressive means attacking the ball, not the player standing between you and basket.

[jimmyboy]

if you ask me the lakers are overrated. who do they have? shaq, kobe, rush.... ummm seems about it. shaq is almost unstopable thats for sure. but if u trap him or triple team him hes gotta force his shots and then more then likely misses them, or pass it for a low % shot. kobe is a POS. he's one of the best but his attitude sucks. in game three detroit got in his head bad. every shot was challenged. detroits defense is too much for the lakers, sense the lakers dont seem to like to play defense, which makes detroits offense seems unreal. oh almost forgot about kobes ego. lmao, the guy pouts when he doesnt get the ball. and then gets pissed and that throws him off his game. if i was a lakers fan i would be completely imbarassed to say so :lol: . but hey, no one can beat the lakers right.....?

Kobe pouted because Lindsey Hunter was guarding him one on one, a mismatch. Had the entry pass been made, Kobe could have posted Hunter up on the weak side. It happenned at least 3 times. 2 of those resulted in turnovers by other Laker players. I'd be piss as a coach too.

As for Laker defense, I'll give you that. They have to learn better team defense. The Pistons aren't exactly a scoring machine, yet the Lakers are making them out to be a scoring superstar.

[jimmyboy]

Point the finger anywhere you want. I haven't seen Philip make or miss one shot the whole series. This guys not a coach, hes a carpetbagger who made his name off 3 of the best players to ever play the game. He's being exposed in the series, here's an idea Phil, why not cry about the refs just like you always do when you're facing a better TEAM. HEY GARY LOOK OUT!!! Here comes another pick and roll

Oh so you've also heard of the talks that Larry Brown is leaving the Pistons for the Lakers next season. That's been the talk around L.A. for the last month even before the playoffs.

[jimmyboy]

Ouch, nice dig. Must of touched a nerve there. Actually (now take off your shoes and socks for this one) I was born in Detroit the same year the Tigers won the World Series back in 1968.(Thats 35 yrs old, don't hurt yourself trying to count that high) Had season tickets for the Tigers, Wings (until they priced me out of Joe Louis in 1998), Lions, and Pistons.




35 huh? Were you at game 3, court-side tickets, drinking too much beer, and having a private discussion with Malone?!!!

[Raft Boy]

Last time I checked, to like Kobe Bryant you don't have to like the 4 other guys on the floor with him.
Maybe, but it helps to win games when the others play too, you know. ;)

See: McGrady, Tracy and Orlando Magic.

And I agree with jdawg. Tone down the attitude. I'm all for friendly jabs, but this is starting to get snippy.

-Rafty